"But it may attract an entirely different demographic that is unlikely to buy the four cylinder."
exactly. i have been trying to buy subaru the last two cars, and I settled on a xc70 and a g37x, because i have zero interest in the 4-banger.
if subaru ever wanted to tap into the volvo / audi buyers, they have to have a realistic 6-cylinder offering. now, their 6-cylinder offering is just on paper because their dealers in the northeast don't carry the 3.6r.
I agree about the 4 cylinder vs 6 but then perhaps I'm not a typical Subaru purchaser.
SNE do carry the 3.6R, problem is they can sell them faster than they get them, Loved it when I drove compared to the X4 and the XC70 and previously had an FX-45 and Jeep V8, our 3.6R Limited is on order and now expected next month.
I guess with the % increase in sales they have it will take some time to satisfy demand.
The tallness is based on the Legacy sedan, which is now approx. 60" tall before any of the Outback "jacking" happens. The Legacy is now a very tall sedan. The wheelbase difference between the two is miniscule and hardly meaningful. It is based on what works best for suspension configuration changes when jacking a vehicle a couple inches. The Outback, unlike the Venza compared to the Camry, is a straightforward station wagon version of the sedan. Unlike the Venza (a Camry underneath), the Outback has the same windshield, the same front door windows and skins, the same fender flares as the Legacy. In other words, the new Outback is exactly like all previous Outbacks in this way...it is a Legacy jacked up and given some different trim in terms of headlights, grill, etc., but the really expensive stuff (side panels, A pillar, all hard points) are still all shared. To put perhaps too fine a point on it, the new Outback looks more CUV-y, because the new Legacy is so much taller than the previous one. That makes the Outback that much taller than before.
"Or it could be a conspiracy on Subaru's part to keep their CAFE numbers high."
Well, that would figure. Wherever there is a problem, one can usually find government at the root of it.
Don't the 2 versions have different transmissions? I was thinking the 2.5 had some new, fancy transmission that may not work as well as the one used in the 3.6.
Then It must be different (doubtful) from the CVT in my daughters Ultima Coupe 3.5 - she has had no problem but Nissan just boosted her drivetrain warranty by several years because of problems apparently reported and found in Nissans CVT.
BTW, it drives very nicely but personally, I prefer the feel of changes with a conventional auto as is in the 3.6R. Can't wait to get it.
We are finally getting some real Fairbanks January temperatures, which are hovering around -40 (C or F, take your pick!). A co-worker reported this morning that while her Ford 500 is working fine, the CVT is having trouble picking a ratio in this extreme cold. She said the engine sounds like it is surging, though the actual behavior at the wheels is consistent. I suspect the added resistance due to cold lubricants is confusing it.
Unfortunately, I do not know anyone who has a Subaru CVT (or Nissan for that matter), so I do not know if those units behave similarly.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Has anyone else noticed that with the 2.5i Premium when the heat is fully directed at your feet your face seems to get too hot? I manually closed all the uper vents but the hot air seems to be coming from the defroster vents then hitting the windshield and continuing on to your face. I am not sure if this small amount of heat coming out the defrost vents is normal or if I have a problem.
I am contemplating getting a new Legacy (2010). I am undecided between the 2.5i and the 3.6r (automatics, as my spouse won't accept a manual). I am coming from a '02 CR-V (and my other car will remain a '06 Pilot). I plan to drive both versions (if I can find a 3.6R to sample) this week, but I have a technical question. I read in one review (can't remember which) that the all wheel drive system associated with each of the different engines/transmissions is slightly different. Any one care to give me a simplified comparison? What are the advantages/disadvantages and what are the maintenance implications. I bought my CR-V new 8 years ago, and I plan to keep this car for a while too, so maintenance will have some significance in the decision on what engine/transmission to get.
What you say?! The new Outback may be the best bang-for-the-buck AWD wagon out there but speaking as an owner of both it ain't no BMW 330xi when it comes to handling.
Don't laugh, but I got one of those stick-on fish-eye lenses and put it on the back of my minivan. It sort of bends light, so I can see fairly close behind the vehicle.
Thing is, I wanted to buy another for my wife, and could not longer find it at Advance Auto Parts (we special ordered it the first time).
Just an idea, though. If you can locate them, lemme know 'cause I'd buy a 2nd one.
I personally think they made the Legacy look like an appliance! It looks huge now. Frankly, its lost that youthful, sport appeal that it had. Now its gained weight and looks plain bulky. The wheels look too small for it and the interior looks a bit harsh too. Now, its not a bad car at all, but it did take a step back when compared to the original design concept for the car and the concept of the Subaru name in general.
To me, it looks like just any other car on the road, but bigger and bulkier. I am surprised Subaru wanted to go this route.
Just my opinion. Just starting to see them on the road and I am just trying to like them, but hard to do when looking at its earlier models.
I'm one owner of a new Legacy that would not have bought it had it not upsized from the '09. I could have saved $6K on a couple of used '09s from what I paid for my limited but the interior and the trunk were too small for me.
I'm in Colorado and the Legacy is the number one selling sedan for the first 10 months of the year, we'll see if that holds up once we have a year's worth of sales of the new model.
i have to agree i would have not bought the 2009, not due to the looks but the lack of leg room. the 10 is so much more roomier, its amazing and well needed for people with long legs i do think it should have been a bit higher off the ground and also in the past winter dirve it was fantastic but i don't know if it was as good as past subarus' i dont know if its the tires or the awd. it did really well but didnt have the subi feel in the snow i remember from the past.
i love my new subi the extra room and better gas milleage is a win win for me!!
I agree that aside from the exterior styling, the new Legacy/Outback really nailed it. And yes, the OEM tires are very poor for winter driving conditions.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I've had my 2010 Legacy Limited for 3 weeks; just crossed 1k miles today. The exterior styling more than anything else is growing on me and I'm liking it more and more, in and out. After driving my brother's '09 WRX, I seriously considered the Legacy GT but didn't want 6MT and premium gas given the stop-n-go /nonstop driving we do here in Los Angeles, so I opted for the Limited. Way less torque, way better mileage.
I took it up on L.A.'s twisty Mulholland Drive today (now that 4 days of rains have ended) and threw it around on some wet curves and lo and behold! was very pleasantly suprised by the handling....like all my other Legacies (4 in the past 15 years, most recently a 2006), it handles like it is on rails. I could NOT get the tires to squeal for anything! No slide whatsoever and the car can definitely be pushed through the curves & switchbacks. But SOMETHING feels so different. Maybe because the sight line from the driver's seat makes the car feel so much bigger, my perception is that it is less nimble somehow than my '06? Not sure I can say what it is yet...it feels alot less athletic than my old Legacies. I kept wondering about the new GT; Subaru claims that the steering and chassis for all cars in the line are tuned the same....I wonder.
Overall, it feels way more luxe...it is definitely softer, less taut and while the seats are in some ways much more comfortable than the 2006, I miss the bolsters on those curves. I would also like the electric lumbar support to fill up firmer; even on max it feels too soft for me.
The turning radius feels much larger than my '06 (despite what Subaru claims is a very minor lengthening of the car overall). A fine stereo, nice leather inside, nice door thump on closing, no wind noise whatsoever (never was in the '06 either, for that matter, even with frameless windows), excellent climate control, a back seat much given much acclaim by both my tall friends and elderly mom. A vast improvement on rear seat legroom! Also, being 6 feet tall, on the rare instances when I was in the right front seat and someone else was driving my '06, the footwell was uncomfortably shallow. Problem gone in the 2010.
As for the CVT--it is something to get used to. This car will get up and go--even with only 170 horses--and the very low end torque feels better than my '06 but the complete absence of shift points takes some getting used to. The paddle shifters help alot!
There's alot to like in this new Subie, but there's also alot to get accustomed to if you are a long-time Subaru driver/fan and you've always appreciated that nimble scrappy feeling that older ones had. They hit the mark with cabin improvements and on going more mainstream, but I'm still adjusting to the changes.
I've noticed that no matter where I leave the heater/directional control I always have to reset it to that it's split between dashboard and feet. I've only had to use the defrost setting a few times and it really does the job quickly.
Took my first drive with 3 passengers yesterday, from our town to the mountains where it was in the low teens. Everyone, including the back seaters said the heat settings felt good to them.
I mentioned this on another Subaru forum and found there are many others complaining about the same thing. Best solution I have found so far is to set heat to setting for face and feet and then manually close all the dash vents that direct heat at your face. This is the only way to get heat directed at your feet only. If you use setting for feet only it also comes out the defrost vent. This still doesn't get your feet as warm as every other car I have owned but it's ok.
Hi, I drive over a mountain (both directions) in the Catskills (NYS) twice a week. Friends and relatives suggested i purchase an AWD. I love the 2010 Legacy and am thinking of the Premium with an all-weather package, but here are my concerns.
1- Can purchase the Honda CRV for $2000 less. (Less than invoice price - not sure why) and can purchase Toyota Camry for $1000 - 2000 less than Legacy.
2- Consumer Reports states that the Legacy has "pronounced body lean and tends to fishtail if throttle is lifted in midturn," whereas they state the the Camry's "Well-calibrated stability-control system steps in promptly to keep the car on its chosen path." So which is it? Is it the AWD system or the stability control that keeps the car from slipping in bad weather?
3- Last, Honda pushes that their depreciation is only 39% after 5-years. I looked up Legacy's depreciation on 'Intellichoice.' Although i wasn't given a percentage, the website said the 2009 Legacy's 5-year cost was "poor."
Can someone clear things up for me?
Does the Subaru ride safer than the CRV or Camry?
Is it worth the extra money?
And does it need more repair work and are the parts more expensive?
I really like the Legacy, but the more i look into it's level of quality, the more confused i get. :confuse:
AWD drive systems vary a lot in how well they work. The best are from Audi/VW, BMW and Subaru.
I ordered the 3.5R since I wanted a std auto with fixed ratio AWD, others like CVT it works well on my daughters Nissan FWD.
The Camry and CRV are not in the same class if you want a good AWD.
I don't think that Subaru maint. costs are more than Honda or Toyota, I can tell you from lurking here that Subaru owners expect more from the manufacturer.
PS: I would not take Consumer reports as gospel for a washing machine, never mind a car.
I recently did some research on the CRV and was not very impressed. First of all, it's not very big - about the same length as my little Mazda3. Second, there were a few reviews at msn.com/autos that said people were having issues with the vehicle. There were very few reviews, so that may or may not mean much. The fact that it is a new model sometimes means there are some quality glitches. I haven't looked at the CRV reviews here at Edmunds, yet.
Toyota has just recalled millions of vehicles for problems related to sudden acceleration. Granted, most people do not have this issue, but it a concern. Toyota seems to be slipping a bit in quality.
What about it, Subaru owners, have you experienced handling problems with your vehicles? I haven't seen anyone mention it on these forums.
The cold feet problem we were discussing is both systems. The auto climate control also adds the problem of not controling the temp as well as other cars with auto temp control. Both issues are well documented on the Subaru boards. I have a new Legacy Premium which has the manual heat and I can confirm the cold feet problem. I have a new Outback Limited on order which has the auto climate control so I will get to test that in a few weeks.
I've had a 2010 Outback, 4 cyl. Limited since late Oct. I have about 4,000 miles on it. We love it. Handles fine, including on ice/snow covered roads. Like the CVT tranny. While no race car, has enough power for our needs. You'll see talk on this thread about weak heat on your feet. I have noticed that. Not a big deal for me. I just let the car warm up before I turn the heat on then run it on Auto for a couple of mins. I then have to cut the fan back because it gets too warm. I wrote more detailed reveiws on this thread, nos. 626 & 632. Suggest you give those a look. BTW, my sister-in-law traded her relatively new Honda CRV for a new 2008 Forester in 12/2009. She likes the Subaru AWD system much better than the system used in the CRV. Hope this is helpful.
I think it is a little odd that you would consider two sedans along with a CRV. It seems the Accord would be a better choice to consider, but not if you are looking at the AWD option.
I have never understood the statement "tends to fishtail if throttle is lifted midturn." I have owned four Subaru vehicles aging between '96 and '10, and the only time any of them break loose is when I tell them to do so. Tires always count for a lot, but it is difficult to find a more sure-footed car. The stability control (VDC) on the Legacy (or others) will kick in if the car breaks loose, but I suspect you will find that to be a rare situation. I drive in a fairly spirited fashion on icy roads, and the VDC has yet to kick in on my '10 Forester. Granted, I have good tires on it (the OEM tires are not good tires ).
As britgeezer suggested, you will need to drive them for yourself and run them through the paces. I think you will find the Legacy to be a very stable car. I have not driven a current-gen CR-V or Camry.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
The CR-V is more comparable to the Forester, right around the same size, as both are a bit shorter and more upright than the Outback.
Forester actually beat the CR-V in residual value, and won "Best Compact Utility Vehicle" from Automotive Lease Guide, the company that sets actual residuals for leases. Outback won for "Best Midsize Utility Vehicle" as well.
Subaru also won "Best Mainstream Brand", though I think Honda wasn't too far behind.
While the overall market for model-year 2005-2008 used vehicles is down 8.5 percent this year, Subaru has shown the best performance in 2009, increasing 1.3 percent
LOL WUT?! That's right, used Subarus actually gained value. That's a better investment than my savings account by a factor of 8!
Any how, I wouldn't worry too much, if you prefer the Legacy, by all means buy that.
As for the "fishtail if throttle is lifted in midturn", aka drop throttle oversteer, this is a matter of Subaru letting its AWD act first, and only after that will it let the stability/traction control kick in and interfere.
It's a philosophy of AWD coming first. This actually helps in loose surfaces (snow, gravel) where some wheelspin is desired.
We own a Forester and a Sienna (same powertrian and based on that Camry). When it snows, the Forester hardly notices. The Sienna can barely make it up our driveway. The VSC on that van is so hyper-active that it retards whatever momentum I have and at times the vehicle stops moving forward. Safe? Sure, I guess. Not very practical, though. It actually performs better with the VSC off. That allows someone wheelspin and forward progress.
On slippery surfaces it is NO contest.
The Sienna is fine everywhere else, but if it's snowing we take the Forester, without question, there's just no comparison whatsoever.
The CRV is a decent vehicle, but the design is older, you would get an older-style transmission (Honda has been very slow to get 6-speed auto transmissions or continuously variable ones into their product mix. The CRV competes with the Forester. As such, it has a less luxurious interior than the Legacy and does not deliver nearly as quiet a ride. The Legacy should be considered a step up. The Camry is at the end of its product cycle, whereas the Legacy is brand new, and offers both stability control and AWD standard for the comparable gas mileage of a front wheel drive car like the Camry. The new Legacy is projected to have better resale value than the previous Legacy. But drive them all, and you decide.
I had both an 03 Legacy, and an 07. I loved the heaters which warmed up quickly and could really pour it out, but also didn't like that you couldn't direct everything out one port at a time, it always split. As for the feet, yes, mine got cold too, and often because the place where it comes out isn't aimed down at the feet, it's more like at the knees. So it wouldn't do a good job of drying carpets which get wet. My daughter, who was always in the back seat, complained about not having seat heaters back there, but also that there was no vent the sent heat back there (or air con in the summer). But given the cutbacks that Subaru made with the new OB (since they dropped the legacy wagon, for which I find it very difficult to forgive them! :confuse: :mad: :mad: ) I don't expect we'll see any of that soon.
My 07 came off lease, and now due to a huge insurance leap, I need to find a cheap reliable car. I'd love to get an older forester or legacy because of the AWD, but the Lemonaid guide gives bad reviews with head gasket problems and says the transmissions don't hold up well after the fifth year, I believe. So because they hold their value, I can't afford one like I just turned in, and I'm nervous about getting an older one. I'm not too fond of the CRV, and like you say, the AWD just isn't the same. For a real joke, the rental car I have at the moment is a PT Cruiser...no seat heaters and just nowhere near the confidence or stability of driving that one. What a joke that car is. cdndriver
By lifting off the gas pedal in a brisk turn, a driver can make the tail move a bit to the outside, aiming the nose deeper into the turn. Such a tendency is not pronounced enough to be alarming — and enthusiasts will enjoy it.
It's a positive review overall, no doubt.
Motor Trend added an Outback to their long-term fleet, and they are getting over 24mpg with it, amazing for a press vehicle (teens are more common with lead-foot editors). Some excerpts:
it fully acquits itself as our 2010 Sport/Utility of the Year
I normally hate CVTs, but this one is pleasantly smooth and quiet
I thought it was quite interesting, also on the hill climb, but there could be ways to stop the rollers spinning, and also when they back up and then try again the momentum could help. The hokey narration, hardly unbiased, make me just think, "ok, let me see this from some other independent lab as well. I've seen a test drive on the Volvo site where they drive their suv right up a 35% grade with no problems, strange, it couldn't do it as well in this test.... There are so many variables that could easily cause that big a difference. Independent testing would make it more believable. I'm not saying that the Subie couldn't do all that, it is a great AWD system, but independent testing would help make it more believable. cdndriver
Comments
exactly. i have been trying to buy subaru the last two cars, and I settled on a xc70 and a g37x, because i have zero interest in the 4-banger.
if subaru ever wanted to tap into the volvo / audi buyers, they have to have a realistic 6-cylinder offering. now, their 6-cylinder offering is just on paper because their dealers in the northeast don't carry the 3.6r.
SNE do carry the 3.6R, problem is they can sell them faster than they get them, Loved it when I drove compared to the X4 and the XC70 and previously had an FX-45 and Jeep V8, our 3.6R Limited is on order and now expected next month.
I guess with the % increase in sales they have it will take some time to satisfy demand.
On the surface, they did a good job distinguishing them.
The Crosstour looks a more like an Accord at the front, FWIW.
Well, that would figure. Wherever there is a problem, one can usually find government at the root of it.
Don't the 2 versions have different transmissions? I was thinking the 2.5 had some new, fancy transmission that may not work as well as the one used in the 3.6.
I think it's sourced from JATCO, who has been supplying CVTs for the Nissan Murano, which has been reliable.
The CVT gets impressive fuel economy, so the 2.5l/CVT combo is definitely optimized for fuel economy. The 3.6l/5EAT will be much quicker.
BTW, it drives very nicely but personally, I prefer the feel of changes with a conventional auto as is in the 3.6R. Can't wait to get it.
Unfortunately, I do not know anyone who has a Subaru CVT (or Nissan for that matter), so I do not know if those units behave similarly.
Just curious.
The latter can climb an icy ramp even if only one single wheel has traction.
Basically a 50/50 split by default, when it slips the fluid sheers and thickens, locking the front and rear together temporarily.
My 98 Forester had it and it works great. That was without the benefit of traction control, too.
I think it's this one:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4999142340359932162#
For that reason, it may be hard to feel any difference.
Thing is, I wanted to buy another for my wife, and could not longer find it at Advance Auto Parts (we special ordered it the first time).
Just an idea, though. If you can locate them, lemme know 'cause I'd buy a 2nd one.
To me, it looks like just any other car on the road, but bigger and bulkier. I am surprised Subaru wanted to go this route.
Just my opinion. Just starting to see them on the road and I am just trying to like them, but hard to do when looking at its earlier models.
If you think about it, the old Legacy overlapped too much with the Impreza sedan.
Now at least there is a clear distinction. You may not like it, but look at sales - customers do.
I'm in Colorado and the Legacy is the number one selling sedan for the first 10 months of the year, we'll see if that holds up once we have a year's worth of sales of the new model.
easypar
i do think it should have been a bit higher off the ground and also in the past winter dirve it was fantastic but i don't know if it was as good as past subarus' i dont know if its the tires or the awd. it did really well but didnt have the subi feel in the snow i remember from the past.
i love my new subi the extra room and better gas milleage is a win win for me!!
I took it up on L.A.'s twisty Mulholland Drive today (now that 4 days of rains have ended) and threw it around on some wet curves and lo and behold! was very pleasantly suprised by the handling....like all my other Legacies (4 in the past 15 years, most recently a 2006), it handles like it is on rails. I could NOT get the tires to squeal for anything! No slide whatsoever and the car can definitely be pushed through the curves & switchbacks. But SOMETHING feels so different. Maybe because the sight line from the driver's seat makes the car feel so much bigger, my perception is that it is less nimble somehow than my '06? Not sure I can say what it is yet...it feels alot less athletic than my old Legacies. I kept wondering about the new GT; Subaru claims that the steering and chassis for all cars in the line are tuned the same....I wonder.
Overall, it feels way more luxe...it is definitely softer, less taut and while the seats are in some ways much more comfortable than the 2006, I miss the bolsters on those curves. I would also like the electric lumbar support to fill up firmer; even on max it feels too soft for me.
The turning radius feels much larger than my '06 (despite what Subaru claims is a very minor lengthening of the car overall). A fine stereo, nice leather inside, nice door thump on closing, no wind noise whatsoever (never was in the '06 either, for that matter, even with frameless windows), excellent climate control, a back seat much given much acclaim by both my tall friends and elderly mom. A vast improvement on rear seat legroom! Also, being 6 feet tall, on the rare instances when I was in the right front seat and someone else was driving my '06, the footwell was uncomfortably shallow. Problem gone in the 2010.
As for the CVT--it is something to get used to. This car will get up and go--even with only 170 horses--and the very low end torque feels better than my '06 but the complete absence of shift points takes some getting used to. The paddle shifters help alot!
There's alot to like in this new Subie, but there's also alot to get accustomed to if you are a long-time Subaru driver/fan and you've always appreciated that nimble scrappy feeling that older ones had. They hit the mark with cabin improvements and on going more mainstream, but I'm still adjusting to the changes.
On cold mornings my feet are freezing.
Took my first drive with 3 passengers yesterday, from our town to the mountains where it was in the low teens. Everyone, including the back seaters said the heat settings felt good to them.
easypar
1- Can purchase the Honda CRV for $2000 less. (Less than invoice price - not sure why) and can purchase Toyota Camry for $1000 - 2000 less than Legacy.
2- Consumer Reports states that the Legacy has "pronounced body lean and tends to fishtail if throttle is lifted in midturn," whereas they state the the Camry's "Well-calibrated stability-control system steps in promptly to keep the car on its chosen path." So which is it? Is it the AWD system or the stability control that keeps the car from slipping in bad weather?
3- Last, Honda pushes that their depreciation is only 39% after 5-years. I looked up Legacy's depreciation on 'Intellichoice.' Although i wasn't given a percentage, the website said the 2009 Legacy's 5-year cost was "poor."
Can someone clear things up for me?
Does the Subaru ride safer than the CRV or Camry?
Is it worth the extra money?
And does it need more repair work and are the parts more expensive?
I really like the Legacy, but the more i look into it's level of quality, the more confused i get. :confuse:
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
elena
AWD drive systems vary a lot in how well they work. The best are from Audi/VW, BMW and Subaru.
I ordered the 3.5R since I wanted a std auto with fixed ratio AWD, others like CVT it works well on my daughters Nissan FWD.
The Camry and CRV are not in the same class if you want a good AWD.
I don't think that Subaru maint. costs are more than Honda or Toyota, I can tell you from lurking here that Subaru owners expect more from the manufacturer.
PS: I would not take Consumer reports as gospel for a washing machine, never mind a car.
Toyota has just recalled millions of vehicles for problems related to sudden acceleration. Granted, most people do not have this issue, but it a concern. Toyota seems to be slipping a bit in quality.
What about it, Subaru owners, have you experienced handling problems with your vehicles? I haven't seen anyone mention it on these forums.
I have never understood the statement "tends to fishtail if throttle is lifted midturn." I have owned four Subaru vehicles aging between '96 and '10, and the only time any of them break loose is when I tell them to do so. Tires always count for a lot, but it is difficult to find a more sure-footed car. The stability control (VDC) on the Legacy (or others) will kick in if the car breaks loose, but I suspect you will find that to be a rare situation. I drive in a fairly spirited fashion on icy roads, and the VDC has yet to kick in on my '10 Forester. Granted, I have good tires on it (the OEM tires are not good tires
As britgeezer suggested, you will need to drive them for yourself and run them through the paces. I think you will find the Legacy to be a very stable car. I have not driven a current-gen CR-V or Camry.
Forester actually beat the CR-V in residual value, and won "Best Compact Utility Vehicle" from Automotive Lease Guide, the company that sets actual residuals for leases. Outback won for "Best Midsize Utility Vehicle" as well.
Subaru also won "Best Mainstream Brand", though I think Honda wasn't too far behind.
Link:
https://www.alg.com/ResidualValueAwards
My guess is that Legacy information is a bit outdated. In 2009 a lot of used Subarus actually gained value. Here's a funny story to read:
http://www.automotive.com/auto-news/02/48496/index.html
Excerpt:
While the overall market for model-year 2005-2008 used vehicles is down 8.5 percent this year, Subaru has shown the best performance in 2009, increasing 1.3 percent
LOL WUT?! That's right, used Subarus actually gained value. That's a better investment than my savings account by a factor of 8!
Any how, I wouldn't worry too much, if you prefer the Legacy, by all means buy that.
As for the "fishtail if throttle is lifted in midturn", aka drop throttle oversteer, this is a matter of Subaru letting its AWD act first, and only after that will it let the stability/traction control kick in and interfere.
It's a philosophy of AWD coming first. This actually helps in loose surfaces (snow, gravel) where some wheelspin is desired.
We own a Forester and a Sienna (same powertrian and based on that Camry). When it snows, the Forester hardly notices. The Sienna can barely make it up our driveway. The VSC on that van is so hyper-active that it retards whatever momentum I have and at times the vehicle stops moving forward. Safe? Sure, I guess. Not very practical, though. It actually performs better with the VSC off. That allows someone wheelspin and forward progress.
On slippery surfaces it is NO contest.
The Sienna is fine everywhere else, but if it's snowing we take the Forester, without question, there's just no comparison whatsoever.
As for the feet, yes, mine got cold too, and often because the place where it comes out isn't aimed down at the feet, it's more like at the knees. So it wouldn't do a good job of drying carpets which get wet.
My daughter, who was always in the back seat, complained about not having seat heaters back there, but also that there was no vent the sent heat back there (or air con in the summer). But given the cutbacks that Subaru made with the new OB (since they dropped the legacy wagon, for which I find it very difficult to forgive them! :confuse: :mad: :mad: ) I don't expect we'll see any of that soon.
My 07 came off lease, and now due to a huge insurance leap, I need to find a cheap reliable car. I'd love to get an older forester or legacy because of the AWD, but the Lemonaid guide gives bad reviews with head gasket problems and says the transmissions don't hold up well after the fifth year, I believe. So because they hold their value, I can't afford one like I just turned in, and I'm nervous about getting an older one.
I'm not too fond of the CRV, and like you say, the AWD just isn't the same.
For a real joke, the rental car I have at the moment is a PT Cruiser...no seat heaters and just nowhere near the confidence or stability of driving that one. What a joke that car is.
cdndriver
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/automobiles/autoreviews/24subaru.html?ref=toda- yspaper
Here's their take on the handling:
By lifting off the gas pedal in a brisk turn, a driver can make the tail move a bit to the outside, aiming the nose deeper into the turn. Such a tendency is not pronounced enough to be alarming — and enthusiasts will enjoy it.
It's a positive review overall, no doubt.
Motor Trend added an Outback to their long-term fleet, and they are getting over 24mpg with it, amazing for a press vehicle (teens are more common with lead-foot editors). Some excerpts:
it fully acquits itself as our 2010 Sport/Utility of the Year
I normally hate CVTs, but this one is pleasantly smooth and quiet
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_1002_2010_subaru_outback_update_- 1/index.html#ixzz0dpk76ThT
They also said it didn't scrape bottom in places that even a Highlander did.
tests like that are believable if and only if they are done by an independent party.
It's not a locker, it's not open, so it has to be the VTD/VDC combination at work.
The hokey narration, hardly unbiased, make me just think, "ok, let me see this from some other independent lab as well. I've seen a test drive on the Volvo site where they drive their suv right up a 35% grade with no problems, strange, it couldn't do it as well in this test....
There are so many variables that could easily cause that big a difference. Independent testing would make it more believable. I'm not saying that the Subie couldn't do all that, it is a great AWD system, but independent testing would help make it more believable.
cdndriver