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Comments
Toyota quality and reliability cost considerably more than Chrysler.
My son loves his loaded 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport (clone of Chrysler T&C LX) that has a very long list of nice features. The Chrysler T&C EX has the powerful 3.8L V6 standard equipment while 3.3L V6 is the engine in the T&C LX.
If you really don't want the Chrysler and you really want the Sienna, then come get a Sienna. I don't know where you are, but air fares are cheap right now. Book a flight to Atlanta and come get a Sienna. I have seen Sienna on dealers lots here so I don't know what the wait is where you are.
Absolutely! Mine are 3, 5 and 7 and I could not imagine loading up without the sliding doors.
I would not but an expensive Dodge or Chrysler minivan unless you plan on a long life together. The deprecation is unbelievable!!
IMO, most people who drive mini vans do not get new ones every 2 years. They usually wear them out for several years, then get a new one--or something different. I would not worry too much about re sale value of the DC product--unless you do not plan on owning it very long. If that was the case, then I'm sure you'd lease and the resale question would be moot.
Nothing personal against Ford, actually I think they make fine vehicles for the most part. In fact, a Taurus recently saved my life in a side impact crash. However, I've researched vans considerably and the Ford vans seem to be the most prone to mechincal reliablity issues from the surveys and research I was able to locate.
Our Ford SUV ('98 XLT Expy) has operated with very few flaws. Unfortunately, I don't want 2 SUV's to drive. One gas hog is plenty.
It seems all this van shopping may be a moot point now however, since the wife isn't ready to part with her Expy.
My wife and I extensively looked at the pricing and features of the Limited T&C and the Platinum series.
In my humble opinion, I don't believe that the Limited is worth $6000 more (MSRP) than the Platinum series. The major differences are that both leather front power seats are heated and you can get a different color other than silver, black or platinum. To me, these factors don't warrant another $6,000.
Just a little FYI, I recently checked with a dealer for on a platinum series van and the employee price is just a little over $31,000. The MSRP is roughly $5000 more. Add this to the rebates and you can get a true idea of the cost of the vehicle.
The AWD wasn't available on platinums as far as any of the models we looked at so I think you're correct there (as well as the "woodgrain" material which wasn't wood as far as I could tell). However, I thought AWD was an option and not standard equipment on the Limited series anyway.
Platinums do come with power pedals (at least all the ones we saw), which is nice if you're short or if you want to distance yourself from the dash in case of an accident.
I recall a 5* dealer in Plymouth, IN that had a black platinum series with everything 'cept AWD and heated front leathers and it was listed for right around $37K. Now if you're looking at a limited for $43K, personally I think you're paying a lot more for very little, unless you suffer through midwest winters and feel those heated leathers and AWD are worth it.
- Heated seats
- DVD navigation system
- Digital automatic tri-zone air conditioning
- Power passenger seat
- Suede accents
- Automatic on/off headlights
- Electronic vehicle information center
- Automatic dimming rear-view and driver's side mirror
- Fog lights
- Chrome wheels
- Memory driver's seat, mirrors, and radio presets
Limited though has an optional DVD player in place of the standard one on the Platinum.
Should have plenty of room in 2nd row seating in a Navigator for 3 people of any size. I have seen families with 4 children travel 1000 miles each way in a round trip in an Expedition with luggage and clothes to last a couple of weeks.
The Navigator will burn more gasoline but the high seating would provide excellent visibility and it is probably one of the safest vehicles unless an accident is with a semi.
For 2004, there is only the base Grand Caravan SE, the Grand Caravan EX, and the expensive Grand Caravan SXT. The GC SE can not be purchased with many of the nice features of my son's GC Sport and the GC EX has a very limited number of options. The GC Sport was by far the most popular Grand Caravan model.
Chrysler has a similar situation but with a few more choices. Why did DC drop the GC Sport, GC EL, GC ES and the T&C EL and LXi?
Chrysler shot themselves in the foot when they dropped the Plymouth name and watered down the prestige of the Chrysler Town & Country by placing Town & Country on the old Plymouth Grand Voyager line. The T&C LX, EL, and EX are too plain for Chrysler to maintain the perception in customer's minds that "Town & Country" is a prestigious minivan.
That move also hurt Chrysler's image when the Pacifica was introduced as an alternative to Lexus and Acura SUVs. Chrysler is no longer considered to be an upscale brand.
As a current Expy owner (98 XLT) I can tell you that I wouldn't spend the money on the Lincoln Navigator. It's merely the difference between buying a "brand name" denim jean and a "generic". You get captain's chairs in the second row with the Navigator but so what? I think that's a detractor if your family is 5 or more or if you like sticking 5 people in your vehicle. So unless you are that enamored by some crome stripping and the Lincoln name stigma, I'd go with a stock XLT or Eddie Bauer.
If I wanted a really nice Expy, I'd go for the Eddie Bauer Edition with the fold down power third seat. Lots of used ones exist and dealers seem to be willing to go down a bit more on the MSRP because "it's not a Lincoln" (rolls eyes).
Also as far as the crash worthiness of the Expy/Navigator, I'm sure it's great but don't fool yourself into thinking that weight alone will save you. It's fine if you hit a Neon, but it works against you when you hit a brickwall. The F-150 is a good example. It has a great front and side impact rating, but only gets a marginal/poor offset crash rating. It put me off in buying it because of that.
Overall, we are very pleased with the Expy we have and expect it to go another two years.
Limited though has an optional DVD player in place of the standard one on the Platinum."
The only thing on the list I haven't seen in a Platinum series is AWD, suede accents, heated front leather seats and possibly digital rear climate control and drivers memory seat/power passenger seat.
Also what do you mean by "optional" DVD player vs. "standard" on the Platinum? Is it a different brand name - say Sony vs. Delphi or whatever? I was not aware that a different DVD player was available.
In my area, they advertise "$10,000 off any LTD in stock!" about every week in the paper.
For me, I couldn't live without the memory seating, heated seats, or settle for manual climate control on a $37,000 van (i.e. Platinum series)
It's all in what you value. I've had automatic lights, memory seating, climate control, etc. on my previous cars, so now I'd never drop down unless money became an issue.
Although for me this is all a moot point since my wife now drives an Acura MDX, but I can't ignore 15 years of owning Chrysler minivans and not being able to say I like to keep up on them!
By the way, can someone tell Acura to add load-leveling suspension like on my old T&C? The navigation back-up camera is cool, but it would also be cool to not be weighted down in back when I have full loads.
Reliability is perfect - read no problemos. We are very picky people and technically can pick out problems. There are none due to DCX engineering.
Maintenance:
I have personally changed the oil/filter myself (don't trust the quicky places) every 4000-5000 miles.
I have only had to fill up the tires once - for whatever that's worth.
Gas Mileage: per onboard computer - 19 MPG city 23.5 MPG HWY
Likes: Still glad we opted for the 3.8 L engine. The EX fits all of our needs although the LTD's look better. Favorite features are the sliding powered doors. And I actually like the split rear bench. I feel that the foot room and quality of the third row seating is more important than a disappearing seat. Torquey, nimble and solid around town and on the highway. Quiet engine and tranny with seemless shifting. Nice stereo sound and comfy seats and ergo. Excellent brakes. Kid's love this way more than our old SUV.
Dislikes: Time for a 5 speed tranny DCX. Highway high speed accelleration/gearing (above 60+ mph) not up to my standards. Power is there - just not getting to the wheels efficiently.
Notes: I take issue with the $$$ UAW worker(s) who can't seem to completly push in/seat the fake wood facia to the center console, can't fully snap in the black plastic cable gaurd in the sliding door, and can't seem to fully screw in almost all of the door latching/guides on passenger side doors of the van. Some day I want to get reimbursed for the Torx set I had to buy. I also want to gripe again that DCX downfeatured the defrost wiper blades and removed switch LEDs from the 2003 model which is cheesy lame.
Would we buy this again? Yes. My wife loves it and it is her van.
Other cars we have owned all driven from new to to 90K+ mi:
Honda Civic, Honda Prelude, Acura Legend, Jeep "heap" Grand Cherokee
Any comments on this move is appreciated.
Ben Settle
Steve, Host
Re: BJsettle: I agree with uga91. You can probabaly do better by upgrading. Esp. now that Chrysler has really opened up the flood gates with both rebates and incentives. Here in Eastern PA they are advertising 2.9% with $4500 rebates. This was on both the Dodge vans and the T&C.
the all new vans will be a 2006 model
Dealer A is quoting $199 over invoice for a 2004 Touring with the Leather package - $27,398 after discounts and rebates (Does not include TTL)
Dealer B is quoting $134 under invoice for a 2003 LXi with sunroof and some other incidental (i.e. not needed) options - $27,750 after discounts and rebates (Does not include TTL)
It seems that the $199 over invoice is a good deal for the 2004. It is actually below Edmunds TMV by $425!!!
My question is concerning the 2003 LXI. Is $134 below invoice reasonable given that the vehicle is one model year old?
Thanks in advance,
Ben Settle
Pretty much I am open to all minivans and I am trying to throw out all my pre-conceptions about differnt brands and try them all (although this board and the Dodge caravan board have been scaring me). The T&C is anice minivan. It doesn't have the fold flat 3rd row but I can live without that feature, if the van drives nice and is comfortable for the passengers (read: my wife).
has DC improved the quality of the 2003-2004 T&C minivans? Unfortunately not too many 2002-2003 owners have posted on this board which could be a good thing. I'm more interested in hearing from the 2001 owners because any manufacturer can make a vehicle last for one year. It's years 2-5 when things go wrong. Any input is greatly appreciated.
Our family has had 3 T&C LTD vans in the last 5-6 years . Every one has been better than the first .
I like the fact that they have the 7/70k warranty. But i know the T&C does ride a little nicer then the GC. I think this afternoon we will test drive this vehicle.
i have a similar van to your town and country. it is a 2001 model. this morning, my engine light came on and stayed on. there is no problem driving as far as i can see. my van is off warranty so i would like your opinion before i'll take it to the mechanic on tue. the van has about 40k miles (my unit conversion may be rusty but i know it's out of warranty). my advance thank for any help.
The check engine light has come on twice for use. We took it in to the dealer and they hooked up a hand held device to turn it off.
The second time, we just kept driving it like the manual recommends. After 3-4 fillups (2 weeks time), it went out by itself.
Hope that helps!
Steve, Host