Calling Los Angeles-based car shoppers: Have you recently traded in (or plan to trade in) a car with negative equity (i.e. the amount you owe on your auto loan is greater than the car's value)? A reporter would like to speak with you; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 11/6 for details.
Honda Civic Hatch Vs. Ford Focus ZX3
Ok, then ZX3 vs. civic hatch...
I am a first time car buyer and collecting info.
I know I should go with the old "proven" civic
even tho it's more expensive and costs more to
insure, resale value is proven. But having driven
one...all I can say is, it was a bit dull. Plus,
I
am short, so I have to scoot the seat way up. I
felt like I was pressed against the windsheild.
Plus, god forbid the airbag deploys....my head
would snap off I sit so close to the wheel.
the focus was fun. sure, I am sucked in by the
new design, I won't lie...but I enjoyed to the
ride, felt comfortable and I wasnt even squished
with the seat all the way up.
I am a first time new car buyer...I have a 125
mile a day roundtrip commute, so I have to have
something reliable, but all that time is more
depressing in something I am just "ok" with.
I just dont know....
any thoughts?
I am a first time car buyer and collecting info.
I know I should go with the old "proven" civic
even tho it's more expensive and costs more to
insure, resale value is proven. But having driven
one...all I can say is, it was a bit dull. Plus,
I
am short, so I have to scoot the seat way up. I
felt like I was pressed against the windsheild.
Plus, god forbid the airbag deploys....my head
would snap off I sit so close to the wheel.
the focus was fun. sure, I am sucked in by the
new design, I won't lie...but I enjoyed to the
ride, felt comfortable and I wasnt even squished
with the seat all the way up.
I am a first time new car buyer...I have a 125
mile a day roundtrip commute, so I have to have
something reliable, but all that time is more
depressing in something I am just "ok" with.
I just dont know....
any thoughts?
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
and it still gets 40 mpg highway.
with the focus your takeing a major risk because the car is a new model. you dont know what kind of glitches they didnt find during production. at least with honda you have a design that has been around for a few years so they have pretty much gotten rid of the malfunctions that come about with a new car model. i would definaly go with the honda. even if it is more expensive to buy and insure, youll get your moneys worht when the car dies at 250k miles. all you have to do it maintain it. the engine that is in the focus was in the escort. that engine is a good engine but it does have its problems. as does any car line. i just think that the honda wll be a better car for you. as far as the airbags deploying with you being so far forward, the mainufactur recommends that you sit at least 12 inches from the airbag. if you are scrunched up against the airbag in a civic then youll be scrunched up against any airbag. its your arms distance that makes most of the difference not how far up you put the seat because the back of the seat is reclinable and you should be able to adjust the distance to 12 inches from there.
well have a good time and good luck with any car you choose.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Like you, I had to pull the seat all the way up and I felt like my face was right in the windshield. I felt very uncomfortable and vulnerable. In the end, I bought another Golf. I found that the Golf had a height-adjustable seat, as well as the usual back and forth. With that combination, I ended up far enough away from the air bag.
I don't know if the new Civic or the Focus have height-adjustable seats but it might be helpful to you if they did.
carlady/host
jsbx
i want you to know that the focus is not a bad car. it just has a few years to prove itself to the automotive industry. my friend just bought a new focus zx3 hatchback and he thinks its all that and then some. personally i think it has yet to be seen. as far as performance the focus 2.0 zetec is not as good as the v-tec. even thought my friend would beg to differ. i believe that if you went with the honda youd make the better choice. but honestly it really doesnt mater what car you go with just as long as you maintain it to the manufactures recommendations. that is how you get 200,000 miles out of any car. it might be expensive but you should always go to the dealership for all the service and maintainence needs. that way you know your getting factory trained technicians with real cridentials to do the work. youll never know with the independent places who has the right cridentials or not. plus youll be getting the parts that would be specifically made for the car. aftermarket parts were designed to fit any number of cars. so it might not be the exact fit for your car. only the factory parts will ensure an exact fit. so no matter what car you go with you must maintain it. the most important service is the 30k mile service. it may cost as little as $300 or as much as $600. hey no one ever said owning a car was cheap.
so good luck with whatever car you choose and have fun with it.
Also, u work at a dealer 181k so dont try to advertise for dealer service to get bussiness!! j/k but seriosly dealer techs know just as little as the other garages do--thats y i do it myself!
Yes Civic Vs Focus--u want bare bones realiabilty and boredome--go civic If you want fun and lots of cool features and an great handling (GO DRIVE IT!) and a great value combined with a flashy nice looking car--GO FOCUS!!!!!!!
BUY A FOCUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also--Focus has no cheap rubbery shift feel like a civic doea--u feel like ur gonna break the thing everytime you shift, my Focus has a tight action with well defined gates (not on civic), and combined with that great steering system, u cant get a nicer to drive car for the money--not to mention the awesome seats--they keep me comfortable all day--and i have drivin long distance in mine!!
The Honda dealers seemed a bit unwilling to help. I mean, I wasn't expecting the same sort of negotiation because sure, they don't need to ... because the cars have proven themselves and as they say 'sell themselves'. But that doesn't mean they should sit back with a take it or leave it attitude.
Because it does sound like a lot of people ARE deciding to leave it....
The ZX3 will give you more engine (than the base Civic), and SIGNIFICANTLY better handling...
My friend's '92 Civic LX has over 240K mi. and still going strong.
My '97 Civic with 100K mi. runs like new and it 's fun to drive due to wider wheels and bigger high performance tires. It handles much better and can hit 115mph in 4th gear with no problem.
With an automatic and the factory steel rims and tires it would be a little boring but nevertheless reliable. It's commuter car that won't die on you. BUT it doesn't have to be a boring commuter. All you have to do is just upgrade to some alloys and bigger tires and the car gets transformed because its stock suspension is actually good. With the wider rims and tires the car becomes more stable and gives you more confidence. I paid $12,500 with A/C for my DX. So far I 've had 100K trouble free mi. and my next car will definitely be another Civic because my commute is 160mi/day and can't afford to break down. There is probably more aftermarket stuff for the Civic than any other car in the world. With a few hundred bucks of suspension upgrades or a set of good tires, I guarantee you a Civic can outhandle a stock Focus easily.
But for some real fun the Integra GS-R is what I drive on the weekends.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
"Where the Civic Si is engine, engine, and engine, the Focus is all handling, steering, and braking."
and again:
"Outside of the Mazda Miata and cars three or four times the price, no car gives better communicaion between the driver and the road (that the Focus ZX3)."
That's more than just stiff springs. It's an innovative, all-independent, multi-link suspension with stabilizers front and rear, and MacPherson struts up front.
You can't get all this from new springs...
I suggest you take a test drive of the Focus next weekend for "some real fun" and share with us your experiences.
Would you?
Next thing you 're gonna tell us is that that a Focus has overall better handling than a Type-R.
Please lets not go there. Although I don't doubt that the Focus has pretty good handling and road feed back you guys are letting it go to your head. For the money, I agree that you get a good deal and I 'm sure it surpasses many cars in the steering, road feel, etc. dept. probably all in its class but Automobile said the exact same things about the Geo Storm (which I bought) in '90. "Sharp steering, excellent handling, great road feel, fun to drive, etc. etc.) They were mostly right but the fact remains it was a $10K Geo Storm and never got too much attention or praise. Probably because by the time it hit 50-60K mi. the suspension was all loose, the sharp steering wasn't so sharp or quick (and I kept putting better tires on!) and the handling had deteriorated. Why do you think your cars are $13K compared to $20-25K ones? It's because of the materials used. I guarantee you this includes cost cutting on your suspension bushings, quality of the antiroll bars, tie bars, brakes, engine mounts, etc. and finally the engine itself. In any case the Focus is new. If 4-5 yrs from now it proves its reliability I 'll buy it.
Until then I 'll keep passing you in my GS-R and I 'll make sure I wave :-)
BTW, stiffer springs are $125 and a good rear antiroll (sway) bar is about $200. You don't need much to turn your Civic into a gokart. I know, I did it with my Integra. Cost me exactly $325 for the parts (plus $150 labor) and the car feels like it's on railroad tracks, no body roll, extremely quick & precise steering, etc. because of its already stiff chassis and excellent suspension.
BTW, does anyone have any #s on the ZX3 besides the 8.8s 0-60 that Edmunds has? Like Skidpad G forces and slalom speeds?
My sister is looking for a car so maybe I 'll take to a Ford dealer to test drive a Focus. Is the ZX3 the only good with a good suspension or do all Foci have the same one? (she doesn't like the hatchback).
Enjoy your cars. All that matters is that YOU like it!
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
They all have the same suspension, but I'd make sure to get the Zetec engine.
We'll talk more when th 220hp Focus-R coumes out =]
Togneter and SilverBullet, you have convinced me to try the Focus!
Based on the above, I thought I'd add my pinch of salt: The Focus is NOT really a NEW car. It IS compared with the Civic, but in Europe it's been around for some years now. And 3-4 years is usually a lifetime nowadays for a particular design.
Honda's ARE remarkable cars for their reliability and their engines, which are 'high-pitched' but still very reliable. But then, Ford has a very good reliability record in Europe. Most of their cars actually LOOK like Japanese cars (the Mondeo), but then they came out with the Focus and a smaller funky one called the 'Ka'. In Europe, people either love'em or hate'em...
I have test driven a few Civics. My impression? the Si was speedy when revved up (of course)and handled just fine. But honestly, I found that the finishing in the Hondas was TERRIBLE!!! The interior was bland, and I was amazed to see that the velcro which was attached to the carpeting was simply STAPLED (!) to it!!! Just HOW those cars can sell at those prices amazes me. Check out similarly priced Jetta's or Golfs and you'd be in for a surprise: the interior is superb! ...But back to the Focus:
I have not tried the ZX yet, but will do that ASAP.
Someone mentioned price... Well, in all logic, Ford is pricing the Focus aggressively because it needs market share on that particular size. Honda dealers don't need to give you a break! Their cars sell like French bread!
But I saw that you could get bucket style seats... Does anyone have anything to say about those?
Based on all the positive opinions I have read, I called five dealerships yesterday and asked if any of them had a ZX3 stick shift. 3 of them were negative. Two confirmed they had them, but one of those dealers was closing in 5 minutes. So I drove up to the other dealer, and asked for "Lou" whom I had talked to. He barely remembered me, and after checking for the keys, came back and said they had just sold the car. ...hmm right!
Today, I drove over to the other Ford dealer. They had a bunch of automatics, but no stick. What is the matter with these people??? It can't be that difficult to check what cars they have in their inventory!!!
Anyway... I saw no point in test driving the automatic (I suffer from autophobia, an incurable ailment inflicted upon me at birth, in Europe, 34 years ago), but nevertheless I sat in one of 'them' automatics, trying to overcome my urge to grab the gear handle and force it left and right, but to no avail. It was miserably limited from its conception to a one-dimensional existence.
Ok... let's remain serious...
Honestly... I was not too impressed with the layout/interior/seating. But in all fairness, I was not too 'hot' for the car even when I lived in Europe. The Focus being 'avant-garde' both inside and out, DOES imply that some of us will love it, and some will frown. I guess I still belong to the latter lot.
I haven't given up completely, since I do admit that the price of the car makes it seem very competitive.
I have read some remarks which lauded the car's design to some excess (in my opinion).
While it is not my intention to support the Hondas (I honestly think the cars are good. But how boring can you possibly make a car! - and what cheap finish, excuse me!).
To put things in perspective, there are about 20 different 'hatches' in Europe (or more) to choose from. Japanese, English, German, Italian, French, Spanish - even Polish! the list is long. A LOT OF THEM are dead cool and really, really good. Peugeot, according to the European press, made the 'best' GTI when I left Europe in 1999. On the upper side of the scale, I bet the new Golf GTI '4 Motion' with 208 bhp and 4 wheel drive would kick some serious [non-permissible content removed] (leaving even Porsche's Carrera 4 in the dirt on winding mountain roads). In Europe, it 'trades' for around the price of a VR6 in the US!
But still, in the 'Focus Class', there are LOTS to choose from, and the Japanese hatches - while very much respected in Europe too do not measure up at all. Not design wise (in Scandinavia, they are referred to as "koensloes" which means witout a gender, or hermaphrodites, if you prefer!), nor performance wise.
Why am I making a lengthy point? Well, to those like myself who like 'hatches', I would just hope that many more models (from any country) would 'come' to the U.S. It would make many more happy, but then, there would be an amazing quantity of forums comparing the Peugeot to the Opel to the Lancia to the Seat to the Renault to the (...) and to the Alfa. I would almost instantly fall in love with the latter. Of course! Having said that, I don't think any American car enthusiast will take me seriously!
No offense - I hope, to Silver Bullet and our Italian friend Togneter. I think people have personal affinities with cars like they do with everything else, and that's the way it should be!
www.peugeot206.com
But again, that just ONE OF THEM!
www.moller.no/audi/nyheter_s3.html
Sorry, the site is norwegian...
But I guess I should stop this trend... it's depressing me!
all of u guys are confusing as hell!its my first time in here and also my first time buying a car. i have no clue about cars but have been reading up on it ever since i planned on buying one.i had two choices in mind, civic dx hatch or zx3.i thought reading everyones input would help me make up my mind but it just confuse me more. i hear honda is reliable in da long run with good resale value then i hear its not good resale value because ders too many of them running around. zx3 handles good on the road then i hear it doesnt handle good on the road. zx3 has not been around long enough on da market to know its realiability den i hear its been around europe for 3-4 years and its favored over japanese cars.zx3 is trouble free den i hear people bringing in their newly purchased zx3 in da shop already.go get honda its reliable dont get zx3 coz its not reliable yet. go get zx3 its got ac, cd, 15 inch wheels, power this power that, dont get honda it doesnt have any options, its got small wheels, it wont handle good on da road but if you buy bigger wheels, better struts and if buy this and that it will handle better but by then you would have spent about thousand bucks. buy zx3 its got that ergonimacally new design compared to the box design of honda. dont buy the zx3 its got ergonimically new design that nobody knows how its going to do in the market just buy the honda its got a nice old style.go buy the civic because its gonna be discontinued next year but it might come back in 2002. dont buy the civic because its gonna be discontinued just buy the zx3 because they gonna make more in production in years to come. go buy the zx3 because its got the zetech engine which is powerful but wait the zetech engine is not really powerful because its the same engine they used in the escort and the neon.i could go on and on and on and on!!!!goodness gracious!!!stop the insanity please!!!have mercy on me!!!!DOES ANYBODY REALLY KNOW WHICH CAR IS THE BETTER DEAL???a little help please, por favor!!!
First, let me put it this way: the day you fall in love with a woman, and you consider marriage, you should follow your heart, NOT what everyone else says!
I think MOST cars sold today have a respectable quality, though there are differences of course.
If Honda and Toyota didn't have reliability on their side, they simply wouldn't sell! Well, at least not in Europe where there is plenty of competition on all sizes.
Also, we are all different, and I think it's silly to systematically rank cars by saying 'this is better than that'... Personally, after seeing the ZX3 up close (no, I haven't driven it) I would rather buy a Honda. But then, that's because the styling of the Focus doesn't do much for me. It does not mean I disrespect those who would buy one. Quite to the contrary. In the US, there seems to be little (if any) openness towards bold designs. Thus, those who 'dare' go Focus, well, I salute them. In Europe, the 'new car on the block' appeal is enormous. People aren't too worried whether their car will run 100,000 miles. They usually want the latest, hottest car.
Again, I would rather opt for the Honda Civic. Independent suspension, good engine (but high revving - a simple matter of driving style) and good reliability it seems but then it has incredibly boring if no sex appeal at all. So frankly, it's really for lack of a better alternative in the same price range.
Actually, I'm going to save some money, and get the Golf 1.8turbo with sport suspension which comes out this fall. Yes, it costs a lot more (+8000). Boring, yes, to some maybe. Financial nonsense? Totally! But then I can dream while I drive, and tell myself that when it grows up, my car will become an Audi S4!
thanx for da quick response,preciate it.i guess id settle for da civic hatch even though it doesnt have that much sex appeal,i'll just have to make it up with my looks and personality(he he).even though it has less options than da zx3,its probably more practically for me in da long run. well, im gonna need it to go to work everyday,it takes meh bout an hour to get there den another hour back. ill need something thats dependable so dat i dont need to worry bout transportation. question? how do u think the civic would handle in snow? also if i do decide to sell it back(listen to me, i havent even bought it yet)it might do ok in resale value.i planning to buy the civic hatchback this week! i hope im not making a big mistake by passing da apportunity to buy da zx3(hopefully im not).
I live in NJ, and when we had 15 inches of snow overnight with freezing temperatures, I drove my wife to work 35 miles away in our Jetta GLS (2000).
On the way, we passed several cars which were stuck - even SUV's!!!
But then, I do come from Norway where ice/snow driving skills is something you learn quickly.
If you're stuck, start in second gear, and don't accelerate too hard, you'll lose your grip. If you're initiating an uncontrolled slide, press on the clutch, and try to straighten up the car (most people turn the wheel too harshly while accelerating...)
What more can I say? Sporty low profile tires don't do too well on snow. Now... I guess it's up to you...
Regarding resale value, frankly, I don't know what to say. My own opinion is that Civics are seriously overpriced. There are so many of them around, and yes, the model 2001 will be different. But again, this risk is one you just have to take. Who knows? The 2000 model may seem more attractive than the 2001 in a couple years or more. You never know. (An example? well, take a look at the Civics back in... hmm, 1985? they looked a lot better than the recent models. Actually, they had a original futuristic edged design to them, ...just like the ZX3 has now!
Damn... I bet I haven't helped you a bit!
Now good luck!
analogy work? (It doesn't)
I don't have suicidal tendencies.
I'm not furry.
I'm not small.
I'm not going to drive off a cliff.
I don't live by the ocean.
Personally, I think the lemming would better
compare to someone purchasing a new vehicle from
Ford. Better yet, a totally new model from Ford.
Talk about suicide.
If you want a very good comparison of the Civic
hatch versus the Fucus Hatch go to:
http://www.honda2000.com/models/competitive/index.html?modelPathName=civic_hatchback
Choose either the CX or DX Honda then the Focus
and look at the numbers.
BTW, if you pay $12,500 for a CX hatch somebody is
laughing at you other than me. (The dealer, all
the way to the bank.) I paid $12,400 (out the door
taxes title & dest.) for my 2000 DX with A/C last
October.
Oh...you do get .4 more inches of HIP ROOM in the Civic. Don't forget about that...
The only real stat the Civic had over the ZX3 is the gas mileage. And that's a result of the wimpy engine.
It might be a little wimpy but the Civic weighs less. I 've blown a couple of ZX3s away with my Civic htbk already.
You do seem to get a lot for your money with the Focus. Hope your cars last..
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
I never said the comparison was favorable. Must take some cajones to put such a comparison on their own web site. Apparently they belive in their product. I think you'd be hard pressed to find such a straight forward comparison on a Ford site.
I didn't see anywhere in the comparison the mention of worse handling.
No alloys? No, they are not standard but, they are an option.
Like I've said before, I'll harbor no ill feelings when I see you on the side of the road. I'll pick you up and drop you off at the nearest Ford dealer.
I have to say here: I like Hondas...always have. I've owned an older Prelude, my brother drives an Integra. I am also notorious amongst my friends for HATING American cars. Not until the ZX3 came over from Ford of Europe had I ever even slowed down on my way by a Ford dealership. In fact, I still can't believe I'm driving a Ford. I drove one...it convinced me.
Sure I'd like a little more power. I'll just wait until the 220hp Focus R comes out... =]
I won't dispute Honda vs. Ford reliability, but like Togneter, I would never have considered a Ford product before the Focus came along. I've been impressed with the level of engineering I've seen while looking in, around and under my ZX3. It is definitely not a warmed over Aspire or Escort. And listen, Hondas break too, folks. I see more than a few doggy Civics and Accords on the roads around here, with clacking CV joints, faded paint, torn upholstery, and oil smoke from bad valve guides or seals.
You know what? There ain't that many Hondas. In fact, most of the market is German, German, German. The most popular car? the Golf. And yes, Ford sells a lot of cars there too. And yes, the Focus does very well there too.
So let's put this 'reliability image' of Honda a little in perspective, shall we?
ps: in Europe, most Ford are considered "German' since we don't get the American models they make (Gott sei dank, I think that's 'thank God' in VW language)
either your dad works in a dealership or your just one owesome bargaining machine!!!your numbers just dont add up!this is what u said and i quote, "I paid 12,400 out the door taxes title & destination with AC". there's no way you could have paid for a 2000 honda civic dx for that price! let me break it down for you bro. first of all the invoice price of this car is $11,026 with a destination price of 440. add that up you get 11,466. now, lets add your AC, let me be lenient and say $1000 for the AC. now lets add that and you get $12,466. thats already 66 dollars over what you paid for and i havent even added TAX, LICENSE AND REGISTRATION, DOC FEE, OH AND LETS NOT FORGET THE MOST IMPORTANDT FEE OF ALL WHICH IS THE DEALER'S PROFIT. so, as you see, there's just no way you could have bought your civic for that price!!! maybe your dad does work for a car dealership??? if my numbers are incorrect, please show me the errors of my ways and break it down for me as i have broken it down for you.
I can tell you it sure is nice to get a steady 35mpg with my "small" engine right now! Nice to have that extra $100 or so in my pocket at the end of the year.
big(er) decision to make. Went with the Honda HB,
no regrets its just what I wanted but the Civic
is plain compared to the ZX3. I like plain, less to go wrong, would like cruise & a tack but their not an OEM option. No Honda HB for 2001 but might be back for 2002. Almost wish I had held out for the Insight, oh well Happy hatchbacking !
Rob Fruth - Houston, Tx
http://freeweb.pdq.net/rfruth
1981 Raleigh for commuting, errands & fun
1997 Trek 2300 for real fun !
2000 Civic DX hatchback
Hey, maybe you didn't notice but not everyone likes the style Ford borrowed from the VW thing for their automobiles.
Once again, how exactly does that lemming analogy work? I assume you are refering to a follow the leader type of thing? Like the old Honda line? "Follow the leader he's on a Honda"
I like the way Ford is going with it's designs (The way Detroit likes to do things) Find a formula and make everything out of that mold. Cougar, Mustang, Fucus, what's next? Honda doesn't take the Civic design and apply it to two completely different cars!
WHAT OTHER CAR ON THE ROAD LOOKS LIKE THE CIVIC HATCH???? (Oh, I know, OTHER CIVIC HATCHBACKS!)
I'll say it again - life's too short to spend 200K miles driving the automotive equivalent of a refrigerator.