Honda Civic Hatch Vs. Ford Focus ZX3

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Comments

  • zgrrrlzgrrrl Member Posts: 147
    When stellar retorts such as "whatever" and "he's an [non-permissible content removed]" are being thrown around.

    You are only proving my point. Congratulations.

    Happy driving to all Civic and Focus owners, alike.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    "You are only proving my point. Congratulations."

    Now you're being an [non-permissible content removed].
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Around here where I live and work (NY/NJ/CT) at least every other car is an import. That may be a conservative # though. Many times on my long commute (80mi. each way), I 've noticed that American cars are actually scarce and all I see is Accord after Accord, Civic after Civic and tons of BMWs, Audis and Jettas. Even half the SUVs are foreign! The small LEXUS (300 I think?) SUV is very popular as is the small Mercedes ones. Caravan and Voyager minivans still have a strong presence on the roads though as do many American pickup trucks.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • alfaromeoalfaromeo Member Posts: 210
    I chose to go with the Golf, and I love my car.

    But I too was looking at the Focus and Civic hatches. The Focus just didn't 'do it' for me, but the reason I didn't buy the Honda was mainly due to the lack of equipment.

    What I don't understand is why Honda has chosen to limit its Civic hatch range in the US to 'stripped' models (not even a tach!). Just about in all other countries, their Civic Hatch range offers at least 3-4 different engines and a wealth of choice in equipment. Why not in the US?

    Thus... I understand those who 'go' for the Focus on the basis of better equipment. A car does not have to be cheap because its inexpensive!

    I don't think we can critize Honda for making bad cars, quite to the contrary. But if Ford is inching into its share of hatch sales, it's partly due to Honda's choice not to offer better equipped hatches.
  • alfaromeoalfaromeo Member Posts: 210
    I second that. Where I live - NJ - that 1/2 number is roughly correct.

    But then I just read in the NYT that 40% of New Yorkers were born outside the US! In NJ there are lots of foreigners due to all the international companies located here.

    But then, my German neighbors own a Ford caprice and a Honda CRX, so I guess that undermines my assumption... lol
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    I was really disappointed to not get a tach. I don't understand how Honda over looked that. The tach is standard in Canada on the DX. It's especially surprising as so many Honda's are raced.

    I would have LOVED a Golf. It just didn't fit my budget right now. I needed the best milage, the most utility, the most fun, and 100% reliability. I have a friend who works for one of the big 3, they did crash tests and the Golf faired VERY well. One of the sport utes they tested with the offset barrier killed the driver. When they ran the same test on the Golf the driver side door opened and there was very little done to the dummy.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    They screwed up there but they also know that the Civic coupes and sedans have always been the best sellers too. So I think they chose to neglect the options on the HBs and labeled them entry level Civics, which is also wrong because they used to have the Civic Si HB ('92-95) with a few more options.
    In Canada they also have the Civic hatchback Special Edition that comes loaded (power everything, CD player, alloy wheels, etc) and is the price of a stripped DX coupe! In Canada Hondas are the #1 selling cars and hold a higher status than in the US. This is also evident in Honda's continuation of the Integra Type-R in Canada for 1999 while the US didn't get a Type-R in '99!
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • alfaromeoalfaromeo Member Posts: 210
    From what I can see, the road is paved for more hatches in the US. I don't think Honda will overlook that segment in the future, in light of the success of the Focus. I also believe that other manufacturers will choose to 'return' their hatches to the US.

    By the way, on
    http://vwvortex.com/
    there is an article about the 'lupo GTI' (it looks dead cool if you ask me!)
    That is a perfect example of a very popular hatch segment in Europe, i.e. the very very small but sporty hatch segment!
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    I like about the Focus are the standard features at a killer price. Then again, the phrase "There aint no such thing as a free lunch" comes to mind whenever I think of all Ford is offering. Anyone else, kinda wonder about that? I mean, if it was that easy to offer what Ford is offering wouldn't everyone do it? Or will everyone now? Or did Ford scrimp in some area's to maintain the profitablity?
  • alfaromeoalfaromeo Member Posts: 210
    It's simply called aggressive pricing strategy!

    Time will tell of course if the Foci don't 'live up' to their image, but you have to remember that that car has been doing very well for some time now in many other countries.

    I read somewhere that Ford was 'pushing' its gas-sipping cars for political reasons. Supposedly, they have this bad ecological image due to all their SUV sales, and there is also a measure of average consumption for the manufacturers, which is imposed by gvt. I guess that if you sell a Focus for every large Ford SUV, it nearly cuts that figure in half!
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Also, don't forget where Ford makes/made all of its money - SUV's.
    Ford simply doesn't have to make a lot if any profit on its cars in order to do well.
    Honda is playing a catch up in this segment now.
  • alfaromeoalfaromeo Member Posts: 210
    'Honda is playing a catch up in this segment now'.

    That's the sort of remark which starts all this stone throwing.
    First, your remark is not applicable, because Honda is so presently blatantly IGNORING 'THIS' segment! I can't see how anyone who chooses to withdraw a particular model is playing 'catch up'!

    Second, let's stay real: Honda (like Toyota) have a very established position in the small car market in the US. To me, coming from Europe, I was very surprised by the extent to which Honda and Toyota have a 'premium' image over here as opposed to Europe (where they are REALLY playing 'catch up' with many other manufacturers - Japanese or not).
    In the US, based on Honda's strong record of making reliable small cars, I don't think they'll have to do a lot of 'catching up' whenever they choose to market a Civic hatch again. They might have had to do so if there were more hatches to choose from, but hey - Focus, Golf, and a few minor league players from Korea? Hardly a saturated market!!!
    Like I've said before, there aren't a lot of hatches produced in the US because there isn't a lot of money to be made from selling them. It's sad, but it's really that simple.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    Yeah, it didn't help when Jr. came out and said that Ford Trucks suck on gas and aren't very earth friendly but, they'll continue making them as long as people buy them. What a great attitude.
  • zgrrrlzgrrrl Member Posts: 147
    http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnps05fm.cfm?SegID=80045

    "never let an idiot drag you down to their level when arguing...you are sure to lose because they have years of experience"
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    What are you trying to say in your own words?
  • zgrrrlzgrrrl Member Posts: 147
    It's not worth my time to post in here any longer.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    So come back where you belong to.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Hey alfaromeo,
    take it easy.
    I was reffering to Honda playing catch up in regards of trucks.
    Their conservative management finally realyzed that they can't ignore the most profitable segment of the industry. And they were quite succesfull doing that.
    Their first truck, the Odyssey, became the "benchmark" practically overnight.
    But Honda has a huge problem in that respect.
    Capacity.
  • zx3beastzx3beast Member Posts: 661
    honda outsells ford in rear-tine tillers
  • plush1plush1 Member Posts: 12
    Hey check this out folks. I mean no disrespect to any Ford owners in here but my man has his facts straigt! Honda nearly put Harley out of business and damn near put Chrysler out of business with the advent of the Civic and Accord in the '70's! The "Big Three" had to go back to the drawing board and figure out why one insignificant car company like Honda nearly put them out of business. Honda is a force to be reckoned with and that's a fact you can't deny.
  • kdominczakkdominczak Member Posts: 174
    Blind fanaticism.STOP. Getting scary.STOP.
  • zx3beastzx3beast Member Posts: 661
    for simpletons
  • zx3beastzx3beast Member Posts: 661
    no real man would ever address or pass off comments
    to a nice lady like the previous posts i have read.
    that demonstrates no class whatsoever.no woman
    should ever be talked to that way.shame!call me
    what you wish,but show some respect for the lady.
    im certain zgrrl is very capable of speaking for
    herself,however there is something very fundamentally wrong in society when a man becomes
    no longer a gentleman to a lady.it is your right to
    speak your mind.heres hoping that we can speak with
    some civility.peace!
  • focuszx3rfocuszx3r Member Posts: 92
    hey rex12, how is it to have your seat all the way reclined. I like my Focus because you sit high and not on the floor like most compacts. I dont think this car will be this cheap for long, ford will defiently jack up the price. As for the low price, I say it is because the car is built in mexico (ZX3 only) and it is cheaper to make the car there. i must say the car is well made, although there are a few little things I noticed
    Now whoever said 100% relaibilty, dont get cocky because its not just a block of steel, that gives you 100% reliability, its a car and it has moving parts which can and will fail at anytime. dont forget that ;)
  • superf22superf22 Member Posts: 54
    there is a reason I hate the zx3. it's almost like a small truck...way high, the view of the road is great, then I get in a 97 civic, and 98 neon, and it feels like I'm going to scratch my butt on the road...all of a sudden I feel like an ant. shame of ford!

    I'M FASINATED BY THE WAY IT SITS. OH! IT'S GREAT!

    focuszx3r said it well, a civic is by no means, no mean at all 100% reliable. very good car though.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    In a corporate citizenship report distributed to shareholders, Ford included a case study that
    discusses the profitability of sport utility vehicles versus their effect on the environment. Ford has been lambasted by critics for producing more and larger SUVs -- such as the Expedition
    and Excursion -- while trumpeting its environmental leadership.

    The report acknowledges that SUVs have poor fuel economy when compared with cars, generally produce more smog-forming emissions than cars and can cause traffic hazards because of their size and height. The report also says that off-road recreation in SUVs can damage the environment.

    Despite the concerns, Ford Jr. said the company has no plans to scale back SUV production.

    "Our customers love them," Ford Jr. said during a news conference after the meeting. "If we didn't provide them, someone else would, and less responsibly than we are doing."

    --------------------------------------------------
    That to me sounds like the drug dealer trying to justify his selling crack.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    My post above was taken from an article written by Mark Truby of The Detroit News.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    "how is it to have your seat all the way reclined."

    What are you asking? I'm lost. I said I DIDN'T understand how you could drive like that.

    I love sitting close to the ground though, if that's what you are asking. A Fiero, 2 CRX's and my Civic have all given me the driving position I prefer.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    as you're gonna get to 100% reliabilty from a car under $15,000. I don't understand why Focus owners get so bent out of shape when the question of relaibility is brought up. Sure, nothing is 100% when it comes to a car but, I'd bet on a Civic before I bet on a Focus. That is the argument. I'm not talking about the car never breaking down, I'm talking about piece of mind. Civic affords you that piece of mind and right now at this point in my life I have no time money or energy to experiment with a Ford.

    I'm not saying my car will never break down, after about 150,000 miles it probably will. :)

    There is a reason it makes everyones Ten best lists year in and year out in the small car category.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    I'm not hear to pick up zgrrl, I'm hear to discuss, sometimes argue a topic. If she's gonna dish it out, she can take it.

    I find it hilarious how she takes a the position of being above sarcasm. Then, in the same post, she resorts to it!

    Seeing as we're in quote mode how about this "Takes one to know one." or " I know you are but what am I?" or Sticks and stones..." Neener neener neener.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    This board like any other board is for exchange of opinions regardless of gender,
    age, social status etc.
    All we can see is screen names, not a real person.
    If you expect it to be any other way, sorry, you are in the wrong place.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    Well said. My hat is off to you.

    Two questions though, is the Civic a great car and is your Focus fun to drive? LOL.

    Here in MI just about every person who works for Ford, that has a kid in H.S. or College, is buying a Focus. It used to be the EXP, Escorts, Tracers, ZX2, base Probe, now it's the Focus. I seriously see AT LEAST 10 a day. Here it's not so much a question of going out on a limb, it's what's Ford's cheapest car. Fortunately for their kids the Focus is a much better car than any of the previously mentioned vehicles.
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    I hope to ditch the Civic before that. I'd like a Golf or a GTI.
  • alfaromeoalfaromeo Member Posts: 210
    ...into trying an Alfa whenever they 'come to town' - lol. It will probably require 38 pages but if I have to I'll do it! (just take a test drive!...)
    hahaha!

    OH... Great post superf22!

    By the way, I love the GTI but it is not as fun to drive as my old Alfa - take my word for it!
    The funny thing I've noticed is how much smaller cars have become heavier and heavier over the years. My small Alfa weighed in at less than 2000lbs, and managed 0-60 in 7,5 seconds with 'only' 120bhp. Smaller cars today weigh in at what? 2500lbs? It must be all that extra safety equipment. No wonder we need more and more power to sustain the same sort of performances!
  • plush1plush1 Member Posts: 12
    Hey man, you made a very strong argument. I wish more people could think like you instead of being biased all the time. I drive a Honda Civic Hatch myself. I didn't buy it 'cos I thought it was different looking or would get somebody's attention or any of that meaningless crap. I bought it 'cos it was a good car for the money that looked decent. Of course most people don't buy their cars for practical reasons; they buy them to get attention. Why? I'll never know. I'm not about attracting attention. My car is totally bone stock and I have no intention of making it into a race car, but I have people challenging me all the time at the stop light. It's ridiculous! I even had a Focus ZX3 race past me the other day as if he were trying to get my attention. I'll admit, the Focus hatchback is a fine looking ride! I looked into it when I was in the market for a new car but went with the Civic just for its reliability, which is what matters most to a poor college student like me. I've ridden in a Focus sedan once - nice ride. I gotta disagree with you on one thing though. I doubt if the Focus turns any heads. The ZX3 hatch, maybe. The sedan doesn't look like anything but a new model Escort. I try to get some of my friends to look at a Focus when it drives by but they could care less. Even with a PT Cruiser driving by I couldn't get my friends to look twice. Some people just don't care about the cars other people drive. Like you said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've heard a lot of folks say that the Focus ZX3 is downright ugly! I disagree. People are always in constant competition; they always think that what they drive is better than what everyone else is driving. I'm more of an import car enthusiast with a mild flair for domestic cars. The Focus is one fresh looking vehicle! Probably the most interesting domestic car that has come out in awhile - or one that I would consider buying, anyway. But y'know what? Cars are all subject to the same abuses. My Civic and your Focus will eventually rack up 100,000 miles and we'll probably get tired of them and sell them. And we'll go out and get another car and then it becomes a never-ending cycle that keeps us in perpetual debt to the car companies. Is it really worth it? Those Honda and Ford fat cats are up their raking in ludicrous amounts of cash and we're making them richer - just so we can have a car that will garner us some attention from passers-by. It really is ridiculous. The Focus will eventually become just another face in the crowd. Just like the VW New Beetle. The same goes for the PT Cruiser. The 21st century is upon us and cars are gonna start to look a lot different - a lot more daring. Pretty soon the Focus will end up looking like a Model T and my Civic will end up looking like a damn go-kart. It's sad but it's inevitable. All cars will eventually become old news. Actually, the best bet is to buy used. Get a classic car and fix it up. No bills to pay and chances are, it's more different than anything else on the road. Anyway, you made a good point SuperF22. It's time that people just live with what they've got and not disrespect other people's cars. Just remember folks: "There's always something faster and better looking out there." Just be happy that you can even afford a car...peace.
  • powerslidepowerslide Member Posts: 48
    According to Automotive news:
    North American sales
    Focus; Year to date, 188,622
    Month of July, 13,791

    Civic; Year to date, 136,215
    Month of July, 13,672
  • rex12rex12 Member Posts: 133
    I'm going to Waterford Hills (Local Race track) www.waterfordhills.com to watch historic car races tomorrow (Saturday).

    They run the races in conjunction with Meadow Brook Hall. (Former residence of Matilda Dodge Wilson, widow of automobile pioneer John Dodge, and her second husband, lumber broker Alfred G. Wilson.) www.meadowbrookhall.com The Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance is a highly regarded classic car show. www.mbhconcours.org

    Anyway, check out the posters for the former races here:
    http://www.waterfordhills.com/meadowbrook/mbarchive.htm

    I think you will particularly enjoy the 1991 poster. There will undoubtably be quite a few Alfa's. I crewed for a guy that has a Duetto a few years back. The guy loves Alfas too.

    Should be a lot of fun.
  • alfaromeoalfaromeo Member Posts: 210
    Great sites...

    There is something very special about vintage racing cars!

    Have a great day at the races!
  • zx3beastzx3beast Member Posts: 661
    i believe all of us here are above the name calling.wether we agree or disagree there have been
    intelligent arguments on both sides. personally,
    i enjoy the fierce post.light-hearted or tongue-in-
    cheek sarcasm is usually well-taken by others.it
    seems when references are made to calling someone
    an [non-permissible content removed],regardless of gender it crosses the line.in
    my opinion it is admirable that there are folks here who staunchly defend their vehicle of choice.
    lets be honest,would it be any fun otherwise? as i have posted before,i believe honda will answer ford
    and others will follow and the consumer will be better for it.i know zgrrrl is a nice lady by her
    post in the zx3 forum.i dont care what you say about me but it just doesnt seem right calling a woman
    an [non-permissible content removed].that was my point nothing more,nothing less.
    peace!
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Those are totally false #s. Up to end of July there have been 199,685 Civics sold in the US alone. Forget about Canada where the Civic is the #1 selling car! That # would be close to 300,000 Civics sold in North America. In July alone 32,111 Civics were sold in the US. Go to this link: www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/ and click on "August 1: Honda's continuing sales record: JULY stats" (it's on the right, scroll down a little). It will give you all the YTD sales of all the Honda and Acura models. These are the official #s! Civic sales have always been close to 400,000/yr in the US alone. Canada sales are at least half that, since you mentioned "North America". I 've been monotoring Civic sales for 3 years now and I 've never seen
    13,xxx sold in one month. It's always over 20,000/mo. in the US.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • powerslidepowerslide Member Posts: 48
    Well maybe you should write Automotive news and tell them they made a mistake.
  • zx3beastzx3beast Member Posts: 661
    i have read info that fords objective was to sell
    to 90% of civic sales with the focus.in other words 9 focus to every 10 civics sold.do any of the sales
    figures bear this out? we all know stats can be
    manipulated to represent other than the real facts.
    whatever the numbers may be,there has has been an
    incredible amount of both focus + civic sold.is it
    possible that this past year these 2 vehicles are
    the best sellers world-wide?therefore, they have more in common with each other in regards to their popularity.if conceding that the civic this year has outsold the focus,i maintain that ford has done an outstanding job in selling focus here,especially
    for a first year run.instead of splitting hairs on this subject,i applaud the efforts of both mfg.any-
    way you count the sales for ford or honda,there is no denying that it is mighty impressive.
  • powerslidepowerslide Member Posts: 48
    The difference between the Focus and previous incarnations of American small cars is the Focus is getting some buyers who would normally buy Hondas, Nissans, Mitsubishis or Toyotas instead of just stealing Chevrolet and Dodge buyers.
  • zx3beastzx3beast Member Posts: 661
    it is the truth in what you said.if it wasnt for the focus i doubt if ford would have any of those sales.certainly an escort vs.civic is a no brainer.
    this incarnation by a domestic mfg.of a small car
    is unlike any before it.now if they would bring more of those euro vehicles over here,we would have
    more quality vehicles to choose.
  • domingos34domingos34 Member Posts: 27
    The results so far have hit Ford's targets, Fesmire said. About 46 percent of Focus buyers are under 35, and 24 percent are under 25. That's a far younger audience than any other Ford product, and younger than most of the competitors to the Focus can draw.

    In the United States, the Focus has managed to sell without rebates -- a feat that General Motors Corp.Honda. and the Chrysler side of DaimlerChrysler AG [NYSE:DAJ - news] have not been able to pull off with their compact cars. Part of that has been because the Focus comes with more standard features than most of its competitors.

    Chris Toepel, 32, a systems administrator from suburban Baltimore, bought a Focus ZX3 hatchback in January and has spent $2,000 on customizing. His three previous cars had been Honda Civics, and Toepel was predisposed to get another.

    ``I still like Honda, but their prices are the main point, even though they've proven they will last,'' Toepel said. ``For 12 grand, the Civic didn't have fog lights, a CD player, a leather steering wheel. I priced a Civic up to $16,000 for the identical features'' in the Focus.
  • domingos34domingos34 Member Posts: 27
    I LOVE IT
  • domingos34domingos34 Member Posts: 27
    TRADE in you civics for a gorgeous, handsome FORD FOCUS ZX3.IT RULES.
  • domingos34domingos34 Member Posts: 27
    I DID.
  • domingos34domingos34 Member Posts: 27
    MY ZX3 IS THE BEST SMALL CAR ON THE ROAD(ALL ZX3's).test drive one and u will find out why.TRUST ME.
  • dudkadudka Member Posts: 451
    well, i am a proud honda owner. but i hate to admit that the ford finally got a car interested me. the zx3 looks like a blown up civic crx. i test drove one and it does have more torque, but at what levels of engine noise. my 99 ex doesn't make that much noise at 7000 prm as the zx3 at 3000. also about standard features and dealer installed features. civic ex came standard with pwr/windows, locks, mirrors, sliding sunroof, remote keyless entry, a/c, cruise control, 6 speaker am/fm/cd.... the only dealer installed option i had was the cassette which i got for free. i paid $14600 for everything. when i tried the focus's top of the line ZTS it was priced at $16 000 and that is without the sunroof. so, talk about the inexpencive american transportation....
    the 2001 honda civic will be just as big as the focus and just as strong engine wise, the focus sales will drop for most cars except for the zx3, since honda is dropping the hatchback.
    also, the ford's ztech is nothing but a 16 valve engine that honda had back in the mid 80's. ex comes with a vtec which is not just a name, but actually a system that allows for greaer horsepower while still being extremely fuel efficient. how many foci are ULEV from the factory without the california modifications. all of honda products are LEV even without the catalytic converter.
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