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You are only proving my point. Congratulations.
Happy driving to all Civic and Focus owners, alike.
Now you're being an [non-permissible content removed].
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
But I too was looking at the Focus and Civic hatches. The Focus just didn't 'do it' for me, but the reason I didn't buy the Honda was mainly due to the lack of equipment.
What I don't understand is why Honda has chosen to limit its Civic hatch range in the US to 'stripped' models (not even a tach!). Just about in all other countries, their Civic Hatch range offers at least 3-4 different engines and a wealth of choice in equipment. Why not in the US?
Thus... I understand those who 'go' for the Focus on the basis of better equipment. A car does not have to be cheap because its inexpensive!
I don't think we can critize Honda for making bad cars, quite to the contrary. But if Ford is inching into its share of hatch sales, it's partly due to Honda's choice not to offer better equipped hatches.
But then I just read in the NYT that 40% of New Yorkers were born outside the US! In NJ there are lots of foreigners due to all the international companies located here.
But then, my German neighbors own a Ford caprice and a Honda CRX, so I guess that undermines my assumption... lol
I would have LOVED a Golf. It just didn't fit my budget right now. I needed the best milage, the most utility, the most fun, and 100% reliability. I have a friend who works for one of the big 3, they did crash tests and the Golf faired VERY well. One of the sport utes they tested with the offset barrier killed the driver. When they ran the same test on the Golf the driver side door opened and there was very little done to the dummy.
In Canada they also have the Civic hatchback Special Edition that comes loaded (power everything, CD player, alloy wheels, etc) and is the price of a stripped DX coupe! In Canada Hondas are the #1 selling cars and hold a higher status than in the US. This is also evident in Honda's continuation of the Integra Type-R in Canada for 1999 while the US didn't get a Type-R in '99!
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
By the way, on
http://vwvortex.com/
there is an article about the 'lupo GTI' (it looks dead cool if you ask me!)
That is a perfect example of a very popular hatch segment in Europe, i.e. the very very small but sporty hatch segment!
Time will tell of course if the Foci don't 'live up' to their image, but you have to remember that that car has been doing very well for some time now in many other countries.
I read somewhere that Ford was 'pushing' its gas-sipping cars for political reasons. Supposedly, they have this bad ecological image due to all their SUV sales, and there is also a measure of average consumption for the manufacturers, which is imposed by gvt. I guess that if you sell a Focus for every large Ford SUV, it nearly cuts that figure in half!
Ford simply doesn't have to make a lot if any profit on its cars in order to do well.
Honda is playing a catch up in this segment now.
That's the sort of remark which starts all this stone throwing.
First, your remark is not applicable, because Honda is so presently blatantly IGNORING 'THIS' segment! I can't see how anyone who chooses to withdraw a particular model is playing 'catch up'!
Second, let's stay real: Honda (like Toyota) have a very established position in the small car market in the US. To me, coming from Europe, I was very surprised by the extent to which Honda and Toyota have a 'premium' image over here as opposed to Europe (where they are REALLY playing 'catch up' with many other manufacturers - Japanese or not).
In the US, based on Honda's strong record of making reliable small cars, I don't think they'll have to do a lot of 'catching up' whenever they choose to market a Civic hatch again. They might have had to do so if there were more hatches to choose from, but hey - Focus, Golf, and a few minor league players from Korea? Hardly a saturated market!!!
Like I've said before, there aren't a lot of hatches produced in the US because there isn't a lot of money to be made from selling them. It's sad, but it's really that simple.
"never let an idiot drag you down to their level when arguing...you are sure to lose because they have years of experience"
take it easy.
I was reffering to Honda playing catch up in regards of trucks.
Their conservative management finally realyzed that they can't ignore the most profitable segment of the industry. And they were quite succesfull doing that.
Their first truck, the Odyssey, became the "benchmark" practically overnight.
But Honda has a huge problem in that respect.
Capacity.
to a nice lady like the previous posts i have read.
that demonstrates no class whatsoever.no woman
should ever be talked to that way.shame!call me
what you wish,but show some respect for the lady.
im certain zgrrl is very capable of speaking for
herself,however there is something very fundamentally wrong in society when a man becomes
no longer a gentleman to a lady.it is your right to
speak your mind.heres hoping that we can speak with
some civility.peace!
Now whoever said 100% relaibilty, dont get cocky because its not just a block of steel, that gives you 100% reliability, its a car and it has moving parts which can and will fail at anytime. dont forget that
I'M FASINATED BY THE WAY IT SITS. OH! IT'S GREAT!
focuszx3r said it well, a civic is by no means, no mean at all 100% reliable. very good car though.
discusses the profitability of sport utility vehicles versus their effect on the environment. Ford has been lambasted by critics for producing more and larger SUVs -- such as the Expedition
and Excursion -- while trumpeting its environmental leadership.
The report acknowledges that SUVs have poor fuel economy when compared with cars, generally produce more smog-forming emissions than cars and can cause traffic hazards because of their size and height. The report also says that off-road recreation in SUVs can damage the environment.
Despite the concerns, Ford Jr. said the company has no plans to scale back SUV production.
"Our customers love them," Ford Jr. said during a news conference after the meeting. "If we didn't provide them, someone else would, and less responsibly than we are doing."
--------------------------------------------------
That to me sounds like the drug dealer trying to justify his selling crack.
What are you asking? I'm lost. I said I DIDN'T understand how you could drive like that.
I love sitting close to the ground though, if that's what you are asking. A Fiero, 2 CRX's and my Civic have all given me the driving position I prefer.
I'm not saying my car will never break down, after about 150,000 miles it probably will.
There is a reason it makes everyones Ten best lists year in and year out in the small car category.
I find it hilarious how she takes a the position of being above sarcasm. Then, in the same post, she resorts to it!
Seeing as we're in quote mode how about this "Takes one to know one." or " I know you are but what am I?" or Sticks and stones..." Neener neener neener.
age, social status etc.
All we can see is screen names, not a real person.
If you expect it to be any other way, sorry, you are in the wrong place.
Two questions though, is the Civic a great car and is your Focus fun to drive? LOL.
Here in MI just about every person who works for Ford, that has a kid in H.S. or College, is buying a Focus. It used to be the EXP, Escorts, Tracers, ZX2, base Probe, now it's the Focus. I seriously see AT LEAST 10 a day. Here it's not so much a question of going out on a limb, it's what's Ford's cheapest car. Fortunately for their kids the Focus is a much better car than any of the previously mentioned vehicles.
hahaha!
OH... Great post superf22!
By the way, I love the GTI but it is not as fun to drive as my old Alfa - take my word for it!
The funny thing I've noticed is how much smaller cars have become heavier and heavier over the years. My small Alfa weighed in at less than 2000lbs, and managed 0-60 in 7,5 seconds with 'only' 120bhp. Smaller cars today weigh in at what? 2500lbs? It must be all that extra safety equipment. No wonder we need more and more power to sustain the same sort of performances!
North American sales
Focus; Year to date, 188,622
Month of July, 13,791
Civic; Year to date, 136,215
Month of July, 13,672
They run the races in conjunction with Meadow Brook Hall. (Former residence of Matilda Dodge Wilson, widow of automobile pioneer John Dodge, and her second husband, lumber broker Alfred G. Wilson.) www.meadowbrookhall.com The Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance is a highly regarded classic car show. www.mbhconcours.org
Anyway, check out the posters for the former races here:
http://www.waterfordhills.com/meadowbrook/mbarchive.htm
I think you will particularly enjoy the 1991 poster. There will undoubtably be quite a few Alfa's. I crewed for a guy that has a Duetto a few years back. The guy loves Alfas too.
Should be a lot of fun.
There is something very special about vintage racing cars!
Have a great day at the races!
intelligent arguments on both sides. personally,
i enjoy the fierce post.light-hearted or tongue-in-
cheek sarcasm is usually well-taken by others.it
seems when references are made to calling someone
an [non-permissible content removed],regardless of gender it crosses the line.in
my opinion it is admirable that there are folks here who staunchly defend their vehicle of choice.
lets be honest,would it be any fun otherwise? as i have posted before,i believe honda will answer ford
and others will follow and the consumer will be better for it.i know zgrrrl is a nice lady by her
post in the zx3 forum.i dont care what you say about me but it just doesnt seem right calling a woman
an [non-permissible content removed].that was my point nothing more,nothing less.
peace!
13,xxx sold in one month. It's always over 20,000/mo. in the US.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
to 90% of civic sales with the focus.in other words 9 focus to every 10 civics sold.do any of the sales
figures bear this out? we all know stats can be
manipulated to represent other than the real facts.
whatever the numbers may be,there has has been an
incredible amount of both focus + civic sold.is it
possible that this past year these 2 vehicles are
the best sellers world-wide?therefore, they have more in common with each other in regards to their popularity.if conceding that the civic this year has outsold the focus,i maintain that ford has done an outstanding job in selling focus here,especially
for a first year run.instead of splitting hairs on this subject,i applaud the efforts of both mfg.any-
way you count the sales for ford or honda,there is no denying that it is mighty impressive.
this incarnation by a domestic mfg.of a small car
is unlike any before it.now if they would bring more of those euro vehicles over here,we would have
more quality vehicles to choose.
In the United States, the Focus has managed to sell without rebates -- a feat that General Motors Corp.Honda. and the Chrysler side of DaimlerChrysler AG [NYSE:DAJ - news] have not been able to pull off with their compact cars. Part of that has been because the Focus comes with more standard features than most of its competitors.
Chris Toepel, 32, a systems administrator from suburban Baltimore, bought a Focus ZX3 hatchback in January and has spent $2,000 on customizing. His three previous cars had been Honda Civics, and Toepel was predisposed to get another.
``I still like Honda, but their prices are the main point, even though they've proven they will last,'' Toepel said. ``For 12 grand, the Civic didn't have fog lights, a CD player, a leather steering wheel. I priced a Civic up to $16,000 for the identical features'' in the Focus.
the 2001 honda civic will be just as big as the focus and just as strong engine wise, the focus sales will drop for most cars except for the zx3, since honda is dropping the hatchback.
also, the ford's ztech is nothing but a 16 valve engine that honda had back in the mid 80's. ex comes with a vtec which is not just a name, but actually a system that allows for greaer horsepower while still being extremely fuel efficient. how many foci are ULEV from the factory without the california modifications. all of honda products are LEV even without the catalytic converter.