Honda Civic Hatch Vs. Ford Focus ZX3

powerslide

I did A LOT of research, checked out a lot of forums (including this one) and drove a lot of cars before making my decision. BTW, I'm no Abercrombie kid (I'm 41).I recently ordered a loaded 2001 Focus SE four door sedan. The amazing thing is I ended up paying around $15,300 ($100 over invoice) for a car with nearly ever option. The ride is very good, acelleration is good, handling is excellent, and build quality seems to be a step above the typical amall car. It had features found in more expensive cars like, speed sensitive radio volume controls, seat belt pre-tensioners, tilt and telescope steering wheel. I REALLY liked the Jetta but I can have what I feel is a very similar car for about $5000 less than a comparably equipped Jetta. Oh and the Focus has 15 MORE HP than the Jetta four cyl. BTW, I heard Ford stole some designers away from VW . As far as reliability, I can't tell you first hand, but aside from some minor early producion problems, the Focus seems well engineered. I've herard of relatively few problems. It's no Solara, but it's a VERY good car forthe money.

only1harry

There 's 1/2 million (475,000) Civics sold in the US alone every year.. I 'm sure it's about a million or more per YEAR worldwide. Just thought I 'd give the #s on the competition. How long has the Focus been out in the rest of the world?

PS. My $12K Civic has tilt steering wheel as well as speed sensitive steering. Does the Focus have the speed sensitive steering? What the hek is speed sensitive volume control? The volume goes up as the inside cabin noise goes up?

rfruth

I made the ZX3 vs Civic decision recently and went with the Civic, the Focus was oh so new at the time I ruled it out, wanted a hatchback so that narrowed it way down. The complaints about the Civic I actually like (1) its plain,
I like plain, less to go wrong (2) underpowered engine, some Civics's are peppy, mine isn't one of them, it has the 1.6 liter non vtec stock everything engine (35 MPG) but you could measure the 0-60 times with a calendar not a stopwatch (compared to a bicycle it flies though) (3) no Civic hatchback for 01, whats that tell you ?
Tells me I bought just in time ! Good luck with your buying decision & go hatchbacks !

Rob Fruth - Houston, Tx
http://freeweb.pdq.net/rfruth

1981 Raleigh for commuting, errands & fun
1997 Trek 2300 for real fun !
2000 Civic DX 5 speed hatchback when I have to

powerslide

The Ford Focus plant in Germany recently produced it's one millionth Focus. That is just one plant. Focus is the currently the best selling car in the world, surpassing the VW Golf.

rex12

sales figures but, just cause they're making them doesn't mean they're selling them.

Just a thought.

only1harry

The best selling car in the world?? Are you dreaming man? Show me some official figures that say that.

kdominczak

Honda offers about 10 different versions of Civics, while Focus only 4!
Honda's Civic has been on the market for many many years and has earned a name of the most dependable econo car. Focus is out there for two years only, and Ford's dependability is not as good as Honda's. Despite those facts Focus is out selling civic worldwide and it is not coincidence.
Focus is not a econo car (small, underpowered, cheap interior, unattractive look, not safe, dangerous and difficult to drive at higher speeds, etc.) Only the prices of focus and civic are similar. Focus sets a new standard of overall automotive value. Can Honda answer it , maybe a new 2001 Civic will be redesign (more power at less rpm's, more interior space, better suspension ...)Civic is a nice little car but it's not comparable to the Focus. Is Honda pulling Civic hatch out of the market for 2001?
If yes that tells you that Honda does not have a real competition for Ford's Focus. Maybe 2002 will be different we'll see.

powerslide

Check out this link to see the AP article about the WORLDS BEST SELLING CAR. rexl2, (just cause they're making them doesn't mean they're selling them). What do you think they are doing, building them and stockpiling them?http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/000721/focus_best.html

zx3beast

in lawnmower sales

rfruth

So what happened to Ford's world car the Escort, is the Focus the next generation of Escort ? I seriously considered a ZX3 but ruled it out cause at the time the dealers had few, knew little
about them etc .. Lately I've seen several on the roads in my neck of the woods where the Silly Urban Vehicles roam. Glad to see the Focus doing well ! Maybe GM will offer a sane vehicle soon ..


Rob Fruth - Houston, Tx
http://freeweb.pdq.net/rfruth

1981 Raleigh for commuting, errands & fun
1997 Trek 2300 for real fun !
2000 Civic hatchback (no 01 hatch in the US)

powerslide

Actually it is the next generation or at least the replacement for the Contour. Ford misstepped with that car. Although it was a good drivers' car, it was too big for Europe and too small (back seat) for the North American market. But, live and learn. Also the pricing was too close to the Taurus. I solved the availability problem by ordering mine (2001). The Focus is NO Escort!

rex12

10 versions? Last I checked there are HX, DX, EX, Si, and Hatchback Civics, that's 5 not 10. Unless you are referring to Sedan and Coupe. In that case there are 8 not 10.

But you're still not making sense. First, there are 5 Focus models. Second, Doesn't Ford offer engine options on Focus SE models? Are those different versions? If yes, then there are 7 different focuses to choose from?

"Focus is not a econo car "

Are you saying the Civic is "(small, underpowered, cheap interior, unattractive look, not safe, dangerous and difficult to drive at higher speeds,
etc.)"? Lemme see, I'm quicker 0-60. I have never had any knobs, switches, or buttons break in a Honda (Can't say that for my Ford's). I think the car looks great. High speeds? Do you have speed sensitive steering? I do. Safe? I wouldn't choose either one if safety was my main concern. However, go to this site:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/

and see that, they have very similar numbers. Of course the 4 door is the only model listed for the Focus but, if you compare the 4 door models, they look pretty equal. I can only guess that the hatches would be similar as well. If saftey was #1 on my agenda, I would have bought a Golf.

Actually, Ford is pretty happy the Focus IS an econo car, they need it to balance the outrageous fuel consumption of their SUV's.

Maybe Ford can make a car that doesn't lead people to laugh and spew out Fix Or Repair Daily when you mention their name? I own Ford stock, I hope they do, but I'm not holding my breath.

rex12

Ever been to a auto plant? Check out the HUGE lots behind them with all of the cars on them? Comon to MI and visit the Novi plant. They make Lincolns there. Check out how many are just sitting on the lot...going nowhere...cause no one's buying them but...they still make them!

How many are being manufactured and how many are sold are 2 completely different numbers.

rex12

Who would EVER think Honda could outsell Ford overall? Ford is a much larger company. That's just a silly thing to say.

In certain market segments Honda does outsell Ford though.

kdominczak

Honda certainly outsells Ford in "certain market segments " :lawn mowers, motorcycles, boat engines,etc.
Why? Because Ford doesn't make any of those.
But that has nothing to do with the fact that Focus is not like a typical Ford product, it was designed and priced to set a new standard.
In my personal opinion the Focus overall is a much better car than the Civic.
If your opinion is different be happy with your Civic and bless it until you'll have to Fix it or Repair it Daily.
Good luck.

plush1

Man, have you been to the NHSTA website lately? Those Ford Focus things are falling apart all over the place! No disrespect to Ford or anything, I own an F-150 myself, but honestly, they're not reliable. The Focus might be the newest-latest but I doubt it's a better overall car than the Civic. And besides, I don't think they look all that great anyway! I think the Ford Focus is a car for biased Americans who just didn't want to break down and buy a Japanese car like the Civic. Oh, I hate to burst anyone's bubble here, but the other day I saw some young kid in a brand new, red Focus broken down on the side of the road with steam coming out from underneath his hood. And the funny thing is, his friends came to pick him up and guess what they were driving? A Honda Civic Del Sol...

powerslide

They are selling them as fast as they make them. Ford had to increase production to try to keep up. Ford also had to extend the 2000 model year production to fill orders. Try going to a Ford dealer and see how many are on the lot. Answer, not many.

zx3beast

in weed whackers

kdominczak

So why those "biased Americans" are buying that... European Ford Focus?
Don't tell me that "biased Americans" are buying what's American only.
Americans are not like Japanese or most Europeans who are protectionists and are buying home made products only.

rex12

You said:

"Americans are not like Japanese or most Europeans
who are protectionists and are buying home made products only."

You obviously live nowhere near an American auto plant or a major supplier to the big 3. It doesn't get much more "protectionist" than a UAW worker.
Either you didn't live through the recession in the late 70's early 80's or you forgot. How about those "Real American's Buy American" Tshirts, hats, and bumper stickers?

You were kidding right?

rex12

Hey funny guys! Weed whackers, what a hoot! Boat motors HAHAHA!

How about you check out the sales figures for the U.S.

http://www.ai-online.com/stats/index.htm

Ford Focus in the U.S. for 2000 YTD

149,568

Honda Civic in the U.S. for 2000 YTD

167,574

Must be smoke and mirrors. Now how about those motorcycles?

rex12

Where is the "European" Focus produced?

only1harry

I had to laugh when the article said that between Dec. and June 220k Focuses have been sold. Well guess what? More than 220K Civics have been sold in the US alone during that period of time! There are over 450-475K Civics sold in the US alone every year. The 220K Focuses in 6mos was in 60 fricking countries!! The article also said that Ford claims the Focus is the best selling car. What a joke. Honda sales #s destroy that of the Focus and that's why Ford hasn't announced that lie in the US. That was all Ford propaganda. I believe the Focus maybe Ford's best selling car (not truck).. that I can believe. I mean look who buys Fords? All the companies that lease them and government agencies. I don't know anyone, friends or family that owns a Ford car except for 1 that owns an Explorer and that 's an SUV and I won't even tell you what he thinks of it. Most of the people you see in a Taurus or Escort, they 're in a rental or in a company car. That's the majority of Ford's sales and the only way they can move some cars out of the factory lots.
I have the URL of official US Honda sales at home. I 'll post it here tonight and you can read it and weep US sales alone are better than Focus global sales. Don't believe what Ford tells you. And forget about the Accord that sells about 550,000 a year in the US.
I 'm heading over to the NHSTA site to see the recalls and service bulletins on the Fucci

zgrrrl

Wow, the fire is still burning. I should just stay away because even thinking about typing in here means you are opening yourself up to an attack....but

Propaganda maybe...but there are still plenty of people who buy Ford cars. Not trucks or SUVs but cars. Just wander outside the Chicago metro area. Contours, escorts, tauri, and now foci ALL over.

The closer you get to the city and the suburbs it's Mazdas and Hondas and those incredibly useless in the burbs and city SUVs (oh wait! 4 wheel drive IS handy in the suburbs, just ask the guy who jumped the median in his Lexus SUV *gag* after waiting too long to for the light to get to the mall!!)

I don't have any official figures like everyone esle, but I do know what I see. Just my 2 cents.

The fact a new car is selling so well (regardless of the "official" nubmers being thrown around any company) is noteworthy.

last time this has happened anyone?
No attacks, please.

I think passion is great, but I also think it's funny people get so riled up about this. Honda/Ford should pay everyone just for "arguing" in this forum.

kdominczak

zgrrr1, good post man.
Rex, you are a blind fan of Honda and like I've said earlier it's your choice.
You can't be objective, you are looking at it in one blind way only, unless it changes I don't think I want to discuss any more of Civic vs. Focus issues with you.
Do you get paid by Honda?

rex12

I backed up my talk with facts, you haven't backed up anything. Sorry, I had no idea you came here talking loud saying nothing and expected me to sit here and applaud your efforts.

I'm blind? And you've been objective?

"I don't think I want to discuss any more of Civic vs. Focus issues with you." GOOD! It's been pretty one sided (my way) and you have done nothing but spout opinion not fact!

Do I get paid by Honda? Why? Should I? Are you thinking you're uninforemd the way I think you're uninformed?

This is not a flame it's just a guy sitting at his key board wondering why you even come to the fourm if you can't stand facts and deal with real numbers.

CYA!

rex12

"The fact a new car is selling so well (regardless
of the "official" nubmers being thrown around any
company) is noteworthy. Last time this has happened anyone?"

Don't take it the wrong way but, I think it was called the Fiero.

zx3beast

in lightweight generators

zgrrrl

I didn't know, so I asked.

It's only taken in the wrong way if you meant it in the wrong way.

rex12

I didn't know. Seems alot of folks here get pretty offended when you back up talk with figures they don't like.

rex12

Yes they do! Very good! Do you have anything to add to the discussion we're having here or are you in your own little world?

Suffering from a little A.D.D.?

rex12

Thanks for the link. I find it funny the guy that chose the Focus over the Honda says the Honda didn't have the leather steering wheel, fog lights and CD player he wanted.

What is that? About $300 in after market add ons? I think they could have picked a better guy to talk up the Focus. Gimme the relaibility for $300!

zgrrrl

Or perhaps they are offended when you show figures and then perhaps, back it up with flip comments like "suffering from A.D.D.

Facts and figures are wonderful, and necessary.
However, credibility is lost when personal attacks and other comments are made to display just how "clever" the author is.


I actually started this thread under my first handle (there was a cookie problem and had to change it to this one...couldnt log in under the other)...and have found it very informative. I started it because I wanted to know the facts, and of course opinions count. I made my decisions about a month ago, thanks in part to this board.

It's too bad such a useful tool has to turn ugly at times. At least Honda and Ford knows there are people willing to make do such things in the name of their passion. So what do YOU get out of it?

rfruth

Even though I'm on the Honda side of this the
Focus appears to be quite a vehicle and sales seem to be strong, if Honda is all that great (and I hope they are !) some friendly competition shouldn't be a problem.

Rob Fruth - Houston, Tx
http://freeweb.pdq.net/rfruth

1981 Raleigh for commuting, errands & fun
1997 Trek 2300 for real fun !
2000 Civic DX 5 speed hatchback

powerslide

I know for sure there is a plant in Cologne, Germany. That is the one that recently produced its one millionth Focus.

powerslide

rexl2, it seems you have omitted a few facts that appeared in that article. The guy in the article also stated that a Civic comparably equipped to his $13,000 Focus would have cost $16,000. A slightly bigger difference than $300 in aftermarket parts. And why are most of Hondas options dealer installed (overpriced).

zx3beast

in snowblowers

focuszx3r

everynight I go out driving and run into atleast 5 ghetto civics with Japanese writing on them, and the funniest part of that is the owners have no clue what it means. I cant stand these cars. The only thing worse is them Eminem blasting drivers who think they are driving a Ferarri. hey I like Eminem but I dont drive around the same mall for 2 hrs blasting it overly loud on a stock stereo. When I pull up to a light in my ZX3 and I am next to a civic, I laugh when I realize it an automatic with an intake and exaust, and I laugh even more when they are in my dust.
Sure you have your all mighty Si, which needs to hit 5,000 RPm to have any power, due to its weak 111 ft/lbs of torque, but when Ford releases the Si killer Focus, all you civic owners will be crying.
Now I know all you civic people are going to try to pick me apart and try to say I am stupid but let me save you the time, I am and idiot and so is everyone else. The smart ones can admit it
The truth is, civics arent bullet proof, and yes they may be more reliable then the Focus, but they just arent as much fun to drive, and thats why all you civic people are ranting and raving because you know whenever you see someone in a ZX3 they are having a blast while you say "hey, its reliable" to justify your purchase. yes you made a smart purchase, but so did the Focus owner too. as long as the owner is happy with their car, it doesnt matter if its going to go 200k or 100k. I myslef love my ZX3, and after almost buying a CX hatch, i wonder why i ever considered it. The truth is the ZX3 is a better buy because it just makes you feel good when you are driving it.
Ok now the civic owners comeback "well youre not going to be happy when it breaks down" well you know what, when and if it does, I will still be happy cuz I know when it is fixed, i will be having a blast driving it!
p.s. it is a common myth that civics dont break down. Let me let you in a little secret, they do break down!!

only1harry

www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/

Select the links on the right. All the sales figures are for the US. I apologize I had the figures mixed up with Accord's earlier but I was at work and couldn't remember the URL.. 167,574 Civics have been sold in the US from Jan-June (6 mos) and 199,685 year to date (till end of July)BTW: read some of the articles. This is what I found: "Honda builds today's best internal combustion engine, a team of 34 jurors responsible for selecting the winners of the International Engine of the Year Awards 2000 announced today (June 16, 2000)".
The Insight won over many Ferraris and other cars that were contestants. The Accord and S2000 engines came in 3d. It also says in there that Honda is the world's largest internal combustion engine manufacturer in the world with 10 million units sold every year. Something else I read that was of interest: GM is buying 450,000 low emission engines from Honda for use in GM cars starting in 2003! They will all be V6 LEV engines. Geez, I may be buying American for the first time in a couple of years if they keep this up

There are also a bunch of pics of the '01 Civic. Sedan doesn't do much for me but the Coupe looks much sportier and different like the Accord Sedan and coupe that are very different. The Civic HB is only for Japan but may get here in '02.

powerslide

This is getting really boring. Kind of like the cars those engines are in. Time for bed. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

kdominczak

I'm not going into the swamp with you, because it's not worth it.
peace ,peace, peace...

zx3beast

honda is recalling harmony 2 lawn mower.seems that leaky fuel tank can catch fire and explode.
honda outsells ford - in bushwhackers

focuszx3r

LOL the harmony 2 is a damn good lawn mower, Mine has an Intake and exaust!!
On the same note--Ford makes heavy commercial farm tractors, that would destroy any honda tractor

rex12

I didn't omit any facts, I thought his comment on the things he wanted in his car was funny. I was not suggesting that a comparably equipped Civic cost $300 more, I said that if he wanted a leather wrapped wheel, fog lights and a CD player they could be had for a song.

How could I possibly argue with a statement that a comparably equipped Civic would run about $3,000 more? If you want ABS, Cruise, Sunroof, Alloy wheels you're gonna pay.

To me this argument is like comparing a Lincoln LS to a BMW or Mercedes. Yes, I just compared the Civic to a Mercedes and a BMW. For small cars they are the ones to beat. Honda set the benchmark, Ford hopes to achive. Time will tell.

rex12

Whatever. It gets a little old when you've got a guy adding nothing to the thread, just being an [non-permissible content removed].

It's a discussion and, if you can't use a little sarcasm and a jab or two it's no fun. Notice how no one says a darn thing here until it gets a little heated?

rex12

Ahhh yes, Rice Boys. Differnet strokes for different folks. Personally I think it's silly. It's nothing new though. Guys did that crap to their V6 Firebird's, Camero's, and Mustangs when I was in school. (Not the Japanese lettering of course.) Big wheels, big radios, tinted windows, chrome tips, and a slow car.

One thing I really don't get is the driving position many people have adopted, the almost laying down positions. How is that comfortable or safe?

rex12

I'm sorry, I didn't want to drag you to the "swamp". I was just wondering when you were going to add something. You spouted off about how many Civic models there were to Focus models and I pointed out the difference wasn't as great as you stated. Then you said Honda outsells Ford in nothing and I gave you solid figures proving you wrong.

Sorry I wanted you to make sense, it was really wrong of me. I won't do it again.

Honda outsells Ford in quality vehicles.

rex12

Honda doesn't make weed whackers. But if they did, they be damn reliable!

alfaromeo

I don't want to get into the heated debate of Honda Civic vs. Focus...

But someone mentionned that US and European buyers were protectionists and for that reason bought only domestic... ARE YOU KIDDING?

Without the US and European markets, the Japanese car manufacturers would not be where they are today. And the 3% import quota on Japanese cars in Europe has been lifted years ago. Guess what? that very quota was imposed in retaliation for a near-complete ban on imports into Japan!
Japan is still to this day the most import-unfriendly nation in the world as far as cars are concerned. It's something to think about.

At the end of the day, markets vary a lot. The reason that European cars are succesful in Europe has nothing to do with 'protectionism'. Come on! It's like saying that Americans buy Corvettes only and not Porsches because they want to buy American.

rex12

I guess it depends on where you live in the Country.

Here in Michigan, many people drive American cars because they have to. If you work for a company that is related to the big three in any way you are strongly encouraged to buy American, foreign cars are never issued as company cars. There aren't many people that work for Ford, GM, or Chrysler that don't own a product their company produces. Of course it makes it alot easier that the manufacturers offer such tremendous deals to their employees. I actually get an extra week of vacation if I buy a vehicle from the company my employer does business with.

I can tell you that when Japan does something American auto workers don't like it gets scary to drive any foriegn made car in the Metro Detroit area. Windows get broke, tires get slashed, cars get shot at, it's not pretty.

My family owns a business that deals with Ford, I currently have 28 members of my family who are 16 or older and 2 have foreign made cars. (A BMW and a Honda.) I suspect numbers throughout the rest of the Country don't follow that percentage.

I'm not saying our government engages in protectionism, but individuals do. (Then again it's pretty hard to buy American when everything is made in Taiwan.)