Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?

kdhspyder

Yes this program may be borrowing somewhat from next year's sales but then next year the economy may have picked up enough that even a small dent in say 11 million or so is worth it to bump this year's disasterous sales.

Again on the tax issue, yes you are a citizen so you're part of the program by default but 'your' taxes are dwarfed by the tax payments of the participants ( buyers, dealers, vehicle makers, truckers, steel/glass/plastic supplier who will benefit from it ).

In fact there is a good chance that the boost in sales across the board may in fact generate more revenue than the program costs.

Then there's the money that the nation as a whole will save as a result of using significantly less fuel over the next 5+ years. That saving alone will be greater than the total cost of the program.

kdhspyder

Yes we won't get back to the 15+ million unit sales level for several or even many years. This program may borrow some sales from next year but it's phased to continue over 12 months. It's not as if 1 million new units were suddenly leaving the lots within 60 days.

It'll be 250K this quarter, 250K the next, 250K the next and then 250K following that. Hopefully by then the economy will have recovered enough to a level of 11-12 million units.

That's all this is supposed to accomplish. Build a bridge over this economic abyss.

qbrozen

First off, please stop typing in all caps. It is interpreted as yelling and it is difficult to read.

Second, you are incorrect. Does SOME go overseas? Sure. But alot of it stays here to pay the American workers in those plants, the utility bills to keep that plant running, etc. Additionally, I personally prefer that someone buy a "foreign" car built here in the US. It is better than buying a Mexican made car from a company running in the red and hemorrhaging MY tax dollars.

fastsvo

I stand corrected. The EPA must have changed the rating on this car!

Use Your Gas Prices &
Annual Miles

Switch Units:
Gallons/100 Miles
Liters/100 km

1994 Ford LTD Crown Victoria

Compare side-by-side
Estimated New EPA MPG

MPG ratings for this vehicle have been revised More information.

Regular Gasoline
16
City

18
Combined

23
Hwy



Now, this car is in my Uncle's name who lives out of the country, but I have been paying for the registration/insurance for years. If I can prove the fact that I have been supplying the checks in which the DMV has been receiving for years, will I be able to qualify for the program? How about if I have power of attorney rights for my uncle?

kdhspyder

Ditto on Toyota. All the rebates and incentives stayed the same in our region.

Why wouldn't they? The C4C program only involves maybe 10% of the buying public. The rest of the buying public is still in the market on a daily basis. Nothing has changed for these the great majority of the buyers.

Another negative fear stomped and squashed.

british_rover

Another negative fear stomped and squashed.

Its like rock em sock em robots Or wack-a-mole.

Do I have to put more quarters in?

dashabq

Couldn't pass up this deal from Chevy... a Silverado sitting on the lot for dealer MSRP of 27k. Got it at invoice for 24.8k - $4000 dealer incentive - $3500 C4C - $750 CU rebate - $3700 trade in. With taxes and registration, OTD price was $13,800. I needed to downsize on the number of vehicles and this C4C offer couldn't have happened at a better time.

ehughes

I tried to trade in my 1994 3/4 ton Chevy customized van for a new truck. After several tries and failures to find out if my van qualified, the system informed the salesman it was a category 1 and the new truck was a category 2, so I couldn't get the rebate. They lumped all the vans together, so mine comes under the same category as a light truck or van. This van has a larger wheelbase and is also a huge gas hog, so how can they classify all vans ,except cargo vans, under the same category. It seems to me the "Car Czar" knows nothing about vehicles.

Did anyone else have this problem?

km72

True, but if the gift is less than $13,000, then neither one will have any worries.

km72

I've had a different problem. My minivan is a Category 1 Truck and I'm looking to downgrade to a passenger car. My van would qualify if the government didn't change it from an 18 to a 19. The new car(s) I viewed would have qualified for the $4,500 amount because the mileage rate was at least 29. I'm still looking though except for a good used car.

gagrice

Here is a way to create real jobs with the C4C engines being destroyed.

stephen987

I love it! Let's set the small-block to "broil."

brighteyes12

Last week my 1998 Volvo V70 with 228,000 miles had an average mpg of 18. This week it is 19. On top of everything else, tell me that mileage doesn't enter into this??? I need to buy a new car. Timing is perfect. But, now $3,500 is not going to happen? Tell me that the mpg is the same for cars with this kind of mileage?

isellhondas

It makes no difference how many miles a car has under this program.

You either qualify under the strict rules or you do not.

sherofthe80s

If you go to the "clunkers...good or bad" topic, I guess Edmunds is challenging the government on the 18 to 19 switcheroo and the government is weighing its options. There's an article on it. Fingers crossed for you and the others!

mudhousehold

Why not go straight to the program site http://www.cars.gov?

aviboy97

This whole sordid mess is only getting more people into the showrooms with false expectations, and for those buying, they're getting screwed for the most part, especially if they're trading in a qualifying clunker that has a used car value of more than a grand (and especially more than two grand).

I sure hope you are being sarcastic.

This is yet another government program that will further put this country in debt. Conrats Obama, you have officially spent more money in your first 7 months then the previous 10 US Presidents COMBINED!!!!

This CARS program is a logistical DISASTER for dealers. The paperwork process is terrible and inefficient. I have a feeling that the government will take much longer then 10 days to reimburse me for my store "floating" the customers $3,500-$4,500.

This program is great for people who can take advantage. But, in reality, we will all pay for it in the end.

british_rover

If you don't want to do the deals why bother to sign up for the program in the first place? If your dealership is doing so well then just pass on all those deals and let other dealers take them. I am sure with the way sales have been they will be more then happy to take those deals off your hand.

This post starts my official policy of ignoring anyone who brings up Obama, ACORN, Socialism or any other of the scare tactic buzzwords

I just don't feel like feeding anymore.

Sandman6472

How does one sign up to ignore these "fools" who bring their opinions on politics in here...totally not necessary and kinda jerky to. This is a car site only...pure & simple, leave the political crap ouuta here! Please get back to me on how it's done. Thanks.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

suncokret

I have a 1985 oldsmobile cutlass supreme and they told me that it is 19 MPG. Also my van 200 Chrysler Grand voyager is not on the list so they used Plymouth Grand Voyager and it is 19MPG. NOT TRUE
I really want to purchase new car but none of my cars "qualify "
85 cutlass supreme is running maybe 8-10 MPG and my Chrysler Van is about 15MPG

Please make them change this MPG ratings and why not to clunk two cars if you have them???

cannell3

We have a '97 Grand Caravan with the 3.8 engine. It appears that it might qualify for C4C, depending on which site you look at. I am trying to figure out if I could possibly trade it in for a new Honda CR-V, and if so, would it qualify for $3500, or $4500.00? Is anyone else out there in a similar situation? thanks! :confuse:

explorerx4

it does not make sense to give someone a 2 for 1, since the focus is to sell more new vehicles. in addition to that, you can only drive 1 vehicle at a time.

suncokret

Same here - I have a 1985 oldsmobile cutlass supreme and they said it is 19MPG also my Chrysler Grand Voyager is 19MPG.
Truly 85 cutlass is 25 years old and I will be happy if I can make 10MPG
Chrysler - maybe 15MPG

Please keep asking for change of this MPG estimates
Also I want to trade both cars, Why not??? Why just one?

suncokret

Well this way I am getting none. hahaha And I do have a new driver who would be happy with a newer car than 1985. Also new driver could not have a car registered in his/her name for a year... it is a new driver.
So I am just telling that there should be more flexibility... different situations and different needs

bcarver

I worked out a dealer a month ago to buy a 2009 Pontiac Vibe. The CARS.GOV does not list my 1995 GMC Sierra 2WD 5.7 L Automatic, so the dealer won't accept my vehicle. CARS.GOV is correct for 1994 and prior years. However, for 1995 they only list a 1995 GMC Sierra 2WD 5.7 Manual.

I have emailed fueleconomy@ornl.gov several times asking them to add my vehicle to the database, but have had no success.

This sucks!! The dealer has not been very helpful.

mustang_man

It appears that's exactly what happened. They went back to the test data instead of using the rounded label values as the 2008 methods applied to the old data would just provide an approximation of what the "new label value" would be. Probably fine at the time (good to a tenth or two of an mpg) but now dollars are tied to the CARS program so more important to start with the more precise test data to yield more accurate, consistent, and, fair results. Rounding is important but it's not regular rounding. I'm pretty sure ASTM rounding is used (when the first digit discarded is exactly 5, followed only by zeros, the last digit retained should be rounded upward if it is an odd number, but no adjustment made if it is an even number so 18.5 becomes 18 but 19.5 becomes 20)

mustang_man

I guess this is a lesson in government process for everyone. While communication on this subject probably could have been better, until the final rule was issued on July 24, it was just a proposal and that means subject to change. Congress shouldn't have had the program start on July 1 - three weeks before the final rule. Apparently not enough people read all the way to page one of the Day One Notice which basically advised consumers and dealers that they may want to wait until the final rule otherwise they assume the risk for invalid transactions. I'm surprised that Edmunds was seemingly surprised by this.

gagrice

That looks like a typo on the CARS website. They show two 5.7 Manual. One should be auto and both are rated 14 MPG. You should be eligible for the $4500. Try a different Pontiac dealer. Call the hotline on CARS.GOV. The EPA will take months to get back to you. I have had several exchanges with them.

michnisjimenez

There is this Sales Mgr car dealer in S.I., NY who fears that the monies for the C4C will dry up fast and threatens to forego our contract if I cannot produce the title for my clunker within 24 hrs, & also will refund my $500 deposit. The time given was so tight bec I have to apply for a copy. However, I thought that the real reason why the Sales Mgr is back pedalling now is bec. I got a good bargain with the Versa HB SL from him 5 days before the official implementation of the program. Few months ago car dealers were begging for our attention and now, due to the C4C program, hundreds of people fill their stores and therefore, the Sales Mgr would like to take back the car from me and CASH in on those folks who will be quoted with higher sticker prices. What a shame! :mad: If anyone knows where I can report this kind of unfair practice of this dealership- pls let me know.

cyclone83

I totally agree. But what about someone in my situation? I did my CFC purchase on the 25th, and my clunker's data was updated again on the 26th. The dealer doesn't seem to be making any effort to get my deal pushed through, he wants the new car back. I'm not doing anything right now.

gracenumber2

My deal was completed on Fri 7/24/09. But dealer kept the salvage value of $200 and gave me no credit. I have called finance dept to request correction and had no reply. Should I push this issue? Is it clear I should have gotten credit as stated on the Cars website? They also charge me Sales tax in GA. I can forgive one mistake but these two together amount to over $500. Your opinions please.

kdhspyder

To avoid this you simply must provide all the documents that are required at the time you pick up the vehicle. There is no gray area here, it's black and white. Provide the documents or begin all over again.

If you have to begin all over again then make sure that you have all the documents ready when you go into negotiate a deal. Choose another dealer, there are thousands of dealers all over the country. If you do not have all the documents that are required on your part then you will run into this again.

Be prepared before you go ... or don't go. It's really that simple.

94gs

...Apparently not enough people read all the way to page one of the Day One Notice which basically advised consumers and dealers that they may want to wait until the final rule otherwise they assume the risk for invalid transactions. I'm surprised that Edmunds was seemingly surprised by this.

It's a *BIG* surprise for a lot of people who are working on finding a new car before the final rules are published. People don't wait for the rules to be published and then start working on a car deal.

It is a surprise because no one expects the MPG rantings will be changed at the last minute. There is no hint of this coming. The MPG data is there since 20+ years ago.

mitchflorida

Since your car didn't qualify for the program, the Dealer will have the right to repossess the new car that you are driving, unless you come up with the $4500. Your beef isn't with the dealer it is with the Federal Governement. He will also report you to the credit agencies, making it impossible for you to get another car loan.

paul007

I too closed a deal with a GA dealer on 7/24/09. While I did not pay the sales tax on the $4,500 I have yet to receive my net salvage value check. They initially told me that they were waiting until Monday when the salvager would come by and tell them the salvage value. On Tuesday I called and left a detailed message and then sent a detailed email the following day, but neither has been answered by the dealer. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and they don't want to play fair. I simply called the Clunker Program fraud hotline at 800-424-9071 and reported what had happened. They said that the incident would be turned over to one of their staff attorneys for handling the next business day and that I should call back by August 11 if I had not received my check by that time. Clerical errors will be forgiven, but if it appears that they are trying to defraud each customer out of their salvage value then they're looking at a $15,000 fine per customer defrauded. Kind of stupid on their part if you ask me. All they had to do was follow the simple rules of the program.

Some folks have posted that we should simply let them keep the $250 and that is what the dealers are hoping for. Well, if it comes down to them keeping the $250 or me, especially in light of the fact that it is legally my money and not theirs under the law, then as sure as the sun is going to rise in GA tomorrow I'm going to clean their plow. They would do the same to me if tables were turned.

mr5x5

I want to relate my personal experience with C4C to see if anybody else is running-into the same problems I am.
I have a '99 Merc Grand Marquis (retail value under $3000)) it has been registered and insured in my name for 7 years and has a "new" EPA combined milage of 18 per www.fueleconomy.gov ) - fully eligible for $4500 C4C credit on a new car that gets >28MPG combined.
On 7/25 I made a deal with local Toyota dealer for a new 2009 Toyota Yaris (3 dr. automatic (combined EPA milage = 31MPG). The Dealer included the $4500 credit in the Purchase Agreement but was no yet "certified" for the CARS program. I provided them with photocopies of my Title, Registration, insurance card, and personal ID documenting compliance with all the rules. The vehicle I purchased was a "dealer swap" so it took a few days for them to get it to the Dealership, meanwhile (they tell me) they tried to register with the program through NHTSA website. They claim that the Dealer Registration website "crashed" and there was a delay in getting their initial application in, consequently I am sitting here 6 days after "closing" my deal waiting for them to receive their "Dealer Certification" information from NHTSA.
Of course I am getting suspicious that they gave me a better deal than they should have and are waiting for me to back-out so they can sell to another buyer for a better price. Realistically, though, I know that the "gov't red tape" for the dealers could be really screwed-up and am inclined to believe they are working in good faith to get the assurances they need from NHTSA that they will receive the credit they included in my deal before accepting final payment from me. I have read the Dealer Section of the CARS.gov website and the process the dealer is describing to me is substantially like the scenario provided on the website.
I will call office of my Congressman and Senators this AM to request their assistance with this and urge anyone else with similar problems to do the same. Hope this is straightened-out soon and I get my piece of the money in this program! I do not know if it is good gov't policy or not but I do know it is good for me at this point in time...

john1152

This is a response to the posting made by joel0622, posting 185 on Jul 11, 2009.
I am posting this on Jul 30, 2009.
FYI.
I went to Ford's web page today jul 30, 2009 just for kicks and found that Ford has old data and has not updated there web page with the new EPA MPG data which was modified on Jul 24, 2009 at the last second as the CARS program was implemented.
You must go to http://www.cars.gov/ and click on the fueleconomy.gov tab at the top for the real MPG.

donewithvws

I was wondering about "gifting" as well.

My family's company had a clunker van that we used for c4c to turn in for a new vehicle for me. The company had to purchase the car to qualify, along with my aunt (the president of the co) as a cosigner.

I'm assuming the company cannot gift it to me so if I buy from the company I will have to pay sales tax on the $25k car.

I'm wondering if my aunt (as a cosigner) can buy out the car and then gift it to me. Anyone know if that's possible? Does gifting really only apply to $13k vehicles and below?

I posed this question to my accountant and he wasn't even sure so not really sure where I can get an answer on this....

gagrice

Just go on vacation in your new car. See the USA, and when you get back with 5000 miles on the new car see if he still wants it back. If enough dealers complain the NHTSA may straighten out the mess they have made of such a simple program.

clebo1

The Justice department needs to investigate these dealers,as there is no set standard,again the auto dealers assocation has chooses to give you whatever they think the gas mileage Is.No accurate estimate.
Ine vehicle gets 16 mph and I was told the same thing.

andre1969

Truly 85 cutlass is 25 years old and I will be happy if I can make 10MPG

If it's rated at 19 mpg combined, then I'm guessing you have the 3.8 V-6/3-speed automatic? Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with the car that it's getting that kind of fuel economy? I had a 1982 Cutlass Supreme with the 3.8/3-speed, and I'd usually get around 15-16 in local driving, and could get lower 20's on the highway...and not exactly babying it, either! And while the horsepower didn't change from 1982-85, the engine management systems...carburetor, electronics, emissions crap, etc, was much-improved, so the '85 tended to perform better, and get better fuel economy. Provided everything's functioning properly, that is.

The whole "cash for clunkers" name is a bit of a misnomer, since "clunker" really has nothing to do with it. Economical little subcompacts can be clunkers. And if poorly maintained, can pollute worse than a monstrous V-8 that's in proper tune. They really should have named this program "Green for Guzzlers" or something along those lines.

turbomike1

I was really excited when I first read about the CARS program. Finally, here was a chance to get rid of my 6 passenger crew cab truck and get a fuel efficient sedan. The old '95 Ford has a 460 ci engine and it can absolutely suck the fuel at an amazing rate. When the rules finally came out though, I discovered that since my truck is classified as a "Category 3" vehicle, it can only be traded in for another Category 3 or 2 truck, and only if I can find a dealer that "wants to". They don't even care if there is a fuel mileage difference, they just assume that a new vehicle will be "better"! I have no interest at all in purchasing another behemoth, I'll just keep on driving my old truck until it dies.

1978transam

You could put both your name and your son's name on the title of the new vehicle. I did this on my C4C transaction to get my daughter a car. Could there be sales tax to pay (again) when gifting a vehicle?

gagrice

According to the CARS website, there are only 3 dealers in all of San Diego county registered for the CARS program. One of each Ford, Honda and Mercedes. Last count we have 11 Toyota dealers and not one is listed. There may be a lot of unhappy dealers and customers if the CARS site is correct. Look up your state and city to find dealers that are registered.

http://www.cars.gov/index.php/dealer-locator

british_rover

That site is just not up to date yet. I know we are signed up and none of our seven dealerships are on that page.

gagrice

Unless your 95 Ford F350 is trashed it should bring $3500 on Craigslist. The Work truck portion of this bill is a joke, I agree. It is probably conceived to get businesses to buy new trucks and delivery vans.

A quick look at Craigslist in San Diego has 5 F350s and the range in price from $4850 to $11,000. Just sell the truck and buy what you like with the money. You will probably do better than $3500.

jeffyscott

I don't know about your state, but in mine one can go in person to the DMV and get a replacement title immediately for an extra fee.

Karen_S

There is a cash meter on the CARS site. I discovered it a few days ago, but then when I went back yesterday I couldn't locate it. Someone else posted it. I wonder just how accurate it is?

http://www.cars.gov/index.php/balance

philliplc

the meter is worthless as there is a huge backlog of deals both in the system waiting for processing and many more that aren't entered into the system at all yet. mine from the 25th still isn't processed.

http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/bill/cars-is-a-four-letter-word

leccsl

I have a CFC deal that I'm ready to do, I have all the necessary documentation. My dealer is saying that I have to pay the full price, including the $3500, to protect them in case the deal doesn't qualify (the only reason it wouldn't is that the funds would dry up). Has anyone else encountered this problem? I understand the dealer doesn't want to be at risk for the money, but neither do I want to have to sue the dealer to get it back if they don't do their part in filing the paperwork. Also, my clunker will have been destroyed, and I'll lose what little value is there.