Congress handed the NHTSA a bill that required their staff to implement a new national rebate program in 30 days. If anyone knows what goes into planning a national IT infrastructure project that can handle ten of thousands of simultaneous Internet connections; the 30 day requirements was doomed for failure.
It was unrealistic to expect NHTSA lawyers to review a bill and come up with a comprehensive set of rules and guidelines in 30 days. They did a good job but there are so many unanswered questions, the Final Rule is just a final draft.
Our legislators drafted language that created this rush and stress on the automotive retail industry. It would seem that automotive retailers were really not part of the planning when the language of the bill was drafted.
So if Americans are feeling that there is a rush to get a health care bill passed is the CARS program a clear warning that rushing into another unrealistic expectation could spell disaster?
This mess is from the WORST Congress ever elected.
"Representatives Sander Levin of Michigan and Betty Sutton of Ohio, both Democrats, said this week that they may try to extend the program if the initial allotment is exhausted swiftly. "
Go to another dealer. Plenty of dealers still selling at invoice and giving the voucher money on the deal upfront. Bigger cities will have better deals. I did a deal with a large Hyundai Dealer a week before program started. Sold car for UNDER invoice plus all incentives. $18,000 sticker price Elantra-- I only financed $9,000 including taxs & tags. So basically I got the car for half price. My clunker was worth about $500.00.
Worst case senario would be you would have to make up the difference between the 3500.00 and what your car actually appraised for. Very doubtful they would distroy your car until they have the money or get declined.
I have to assume the dealer would be diligent in processing the paperwork.
No, I don't really blame them. The program puts them at risk, and they're trying to shift the risk to me. But the worst case scenario would be that I wouldn't get the $3500 OR the $1500 trade in value of my car, because the rules require that they destroy the car (disable the engine) before they apply for the rebate. And once they've shifted the risk to me they lose the incentive to be diligent with the paperwork.
because the rules require that they destroy the car (disable the engine) before they apply for the rebate
This rule (if true; I did not check) makes no sense, unless there is a guarantee of payment to dealers,
After the MPG revision and the scare of no funding left, I bet dealers will start implementing procedures to protect themselves. This is a business decision, not meant to be unfriendly to customers.
I would definitely try a different dealer. We had a dealer try that, then moved to a different one who stated that once we handed the vehicle over it was no longer our concern. I am certain that dealers are going to get fair warning that the fund is running low, and will then change their tactics a bit. For now though if your clunker meets requirements, and you have all your supporting documents, once they have accepted it I can't imagine it is still your reponsibility, nor is there any reason why you should not get the rebate, especially if you have purchased a new car, and they have destroyed your old one. There seems to be a lot of unjustified hysteria on here at present, mainly from people whose vehicle's don't quite fit the criteria, for those that have vehicles that do, I don't see a problem for now.
Come on Craig do you really think we have blown through 250,000 deals in just a few days? Only Hyundai and some VW dealers were starting to program early so there should still be plenty of money for now.
This time next month that might not be the case. Will be interesting to see what the estimate of funds left over looks like Monday afternoon once most of the back log of old deals is done.
If you don't want to do the deals why bother to sign up for the program in the first place? If your dealership is doing so well then just pass on all those deals and let other dealers take them. I am sure with the way sales have been they will be more then happy to take those deals off your hand.
Hmmm....where do I start......
Dealers were given NO logistical information until AFTER they registered for the program, which was difficult in it's own right. Our wonderful government gave no prior information to dealers ahead of time that indicated what any procedure would be for submitting a CARS deal. They decided to bombard every dealer with all the details all at once. This was all on Friday....
Now, here is the problem for submitting a CARS deal...
We have to scan several documents and have them submitted through a complex submission system which is constantly OVERLOADED with 20,000 dealers trying to do so at the same time. The system constantly freezes and logs you off stating "your session has been timed out". Geez...yet another inefficient government program.
My gripe is not with the idea of the program, but rather how complex it is. Maybe the government should have developed a system in joint with the auto manufactures and how they do their business. Auto manufacturers' systems are far more efficient for dealers to report sales.
The good is what it creates sales for my store and an American Citizen gets to in theory "sell" their POS to the Government for $3,500-$4,500. Not one vehicle I have taken in under the CARS program has had a trade value over $1,000.
The bad is how the program is carried out logisticaly and more unnecessary government spending.
I'm sure you don't. You don't have 3500-4500 dollars per car on the line, do you?
" I am certain that dealers are going to get fair warning that the fund is running low"
Really? do you know this for "certain"? If it were your dealership woujld YOU take the chance?
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I am sure you are making a profit on the cars you sell. The more you sell, the higher the profits. If dealers want to make a lot of money right now, they will make sure they are educated about this rebate, and make the transaction as painless as possible. End of story. This is a business transaction, and should not be emotional. The first dealer I went to was emotional, unhelpful, and generally ticked-off. Guess what, I went somewhere else. I am sure I am not alone. Make no mistake, I am sure most on this forum realize this is a giant headache for dealers, and requires multiple additional steps, but I am still going to spend my money where I feel most comfortable.
I read the following on the Bloomberg article posted earlier:
More than 22,330 dealers signed up to participate in the program, which the U.S. estimates will pay for as many as 250,000 vehicle sales, about 11 per dealer.
I hope my dealer can get my data into the system soon (if not already done)...
The government should save millions of the CARS promotion money on improving the computer system (hire Google to handle the data processing).
The meter someone posted shows 22% of the money gone. An article someone else posted indicated that over 1/2 of transactions were "off line" which seems to mean the deal is done but not yet reflected in the system and that the money has not been paid out. These two items taken together would appear that the money may be 1/2 or so gone already.
A corporation can not make a gift to a person. Your Aunt and the Corporation are separate legal entities. A transfer of the car from the corporation to her may have federal or state income tax implications to her or the corporation in addition to sales tax implications. In Indiana a transfer of a vehicle from a Corporation to a Shareholder is subject to sales tax. Other states may treat if differently.
A gift for tax purposes is exactly at the name inplies. It is given from one person to another without any future expectations. Good try for those of you trying to avoid sales tax, but if the underlying transaction is that the giftor gives the vehicle to the giftee and the giftee in turn gives cash to the giftor, it is not a gift transaction.
The amount for 2009 for a true gift is 13,000 per person before reporting of the gift is required. Even if the gift needs to be reported, it may not have tax due based on the persons lifetime gifts given. A husband and wife can give 26,000 to a person (13K each). Likewise a person can give 26,000 to a husband and wife.
As a separate note, the sales tax deduction for federal tax is only available to the first purchaser. If one buys a car and turns around and resells it, the second person is buying a used car rather than a new one and the sales tax deduction is not allowed.
Thanks for the correction, so if the "off line" figure is appoximately accurate, maybe the completed deals to date will account for 20-25% of the money. With that correction it is looking to me like they will be lucky if this money lasts a month.
kathyc2 - thanks for your response - you seem to know a lot on this subject - do you work for the IRS? i wasn't sure really who to go to to advise me on this sort of thing.
so it sounds like in order to get the company's name off the car, my aunt or i will have to purchase the car and pay all taxes...?
if my aunt gifts the car to me but i dont pay her for it, am i exempt from the taxes? the car is about 25k so sounds like she would have to report it.
If I were a dealer, I would be scared to DEATH over this boondoggle......
Scared to DEATH here!!!!
I have been booted 3 times today from the submission system. I guess the only way to report these sales is to logon at 2AM when no one else is trying to report sales. I'm sure my wife will be happy with that....
As of 7/30/09 there is still $779 million available to the Clunker program. They've have allocated ONLY (I'm choking up) $210 million thus far. What is interesting is that at the current rate the funds will be depleted in 3.5 weeks. There's still time to make a sane deal, but if you plan on waiting until September you might find yourself SOL. Dealers might get a little nervous when it gets down to the last $100 million as it could mean sudden death of the program upon reaching zero funds.
Are you on the east coast, west coast or in the middle? If you are on the east coast I would try early in the am say before 6:00 am. If you try at 2 AM EST that is only 11 AM Pacific and things could still be busy.
again, the allocation for non CAT3 vehicles is 875 mil so at 779 only 96 mil is "officially" gone.
the trouble is the number of pending sales yet to be processed is certainly much higher than that and nobody can do anything but guess how much is really left.
Yes, I work for the IRS and I'm coming after you. Actually, I'm a CPA.
You are correct in that if your Aunt gifted it to you without you paying, she would need to report it, but unless she has gifted quite a bit over her lifetime, she would not owe tax. But, she would first have to xfer it to her instead of the corp.
If you buy it from the corp, you would owe sales tax on the FMV.
As of 7/30/09 there is still $779 million available to the Clunker program. They've have allocated ONLY (I'm choking up) $210 million thus far. What is interesting is that at the current rate the funds will be depleted in 3.5 weeks.
Do you think the rate of sales will remain the same? I've been wondering about that. I know people have been waiting for the program so there is the initial rush once the program rules rolled out so things are hopping this first week. I just wonder if the level will continue for the next month or two or taper off.
It could also slow down because you had some people doing early deals or getting them lined up to go as soon as the rules came out. OTOH, the pace may be maintained, as there could be people who were not in a rush, because they thought they had three months and they now may think they have 3 weeks, instead. Plus there will be people who somehow never head about this program at all until this week.
Around my area (La Crosse, WI) pretty much all the dealers have left are trucks and SUV's with sticker prices over $25k. So unless they get new shipments of cars, demand may be there, but the dealers won't be able to meet it. I counted 15 corollas on the Toyota lot. There was only 1 that didn't have a sold sign on it. I joked with the person I was with that the reason was they ran out of sold signs!
Not a "pissing match" at all. It's just that I don't think you have any idea of the exposure the stores face.
This has nothig to do with emotions just sound business sense. If a store was "unhelpful and "ticked off shame on them but don't fault them for trying to protect thier assets and we are talking about BIG dollars.
To me it looks like you think...
They wouldn't do what I wanted + BAD STORE
They did want I wanted = GOOD STORE
I can see how you would feel this way but I still have to wonder, as a business owner, what stance you would have taken.
nothing is wrong with this car..... well A/C is not working... but everything else is original on it. It has 76000 miles exactly but spend a lot of gas. I am not a mechanic but this car runs perfectly fine. Do you know what is CA FFS for? This car has been manufactured in Canada and it is GM. So if CA stands for Cananda then this car qualifies
Do you know exactly when the EPA numbers were updated? On Friday, July 24th, the dealer took our clunker, and we purchased a new car with the $4500 credit. We are quite sure that the web site said that our trade-in car was still 18mpg on July 24th. The dealer just contacted us to say that our clunker is now ineligible. We're not sure what to do. The transaction was completed on July 24th.
I'm in a similar boat. We completed our transaction on the 25th, and then the clunker info changed on the 26th. I have a contact inside the DOT and I'm waiting for a phone call, I'll let you know what I find out. Is there any way you can produce evidence that the clunker qualified on the 24th?
You are OK! Edmunds Auto Observer just posted this:
Some Clunker Deals Based On Old EPA Numbers Will Be Honored, DOT Rules July 30, 2009
The U.S. Department of Transportation has ruled that deals involving cash for clunkers trade- CARS logo - 220.JPGins based on old mileage numbers and consummated before July 24 will be honored, but deals consummated after July 24 on vehicles that became ineligible as clunkers due to mileage ratings changes will not be honored.
Our dealer yesterday went through the whole computerized system to get the "approval" from the system before he would hand us the keys. That's the way it should be done. I bet there are lots of people out there who bought Hundai's early and are now in the same situation
He may have entered it in but it takes 3-5 days to get approval and then the dealer gets his money 10 days after that.
nothing is wrong with this car..... well A/C is not working... but everything else is original on it. It has 76000 miles exactly but spend a lot of gas. I am not a mechanic but this car runs perfectly fine. Do you know what is CA FFS for?
I forget what the "FFS" stands for, but the "CA" means that the car built under the stricter California/high altitude smog requirements. That means that the car puts out less pollution than a regular "49 state" car, but does so at the cost of fuel economy and horsepower. I know it sounds strange that the car can run cleaner, yet burn more fuel, but it does!
I think nowadays all cars are "50 state" cars, which makes things a little easier to decipher.
Unfortunately, I don't know if there's any way in the VIN to be able to tell whether your '85 is a "49 state" car or a "CA" car. Did you buy it brand-new? Or at least know where it was originally purchased?
It was updated on Friday. According to the report on AutoObserver, transactions involving clunkers that turned qualified to disqualified will be honored by the government if they were consummated before the July 24 program launch date. Transactions on vehicles that became ineligible as clunkers made after July 24 will not be honored.
Oh isn't that the truth. Some what off topic but somewhat not.
Back in the beginning of the month I had a guy that wanted to buy a wagon I think originally. Emailed in looking for lease numbers. They were higher then he wanted but I told him that is just how that wagon leases tell me what you are looking to spend per month and I can show you cars that will lease or finance in that range. He wouldn't tell me and that is fine cause everyone tells people not to tell the dealer what payment you want to be at. Sometimes that just makes things much more difficult like in this case.
A day or two goes by and I get a call from another guy who claims to be so and so's friend who is really going to be buying the car. Now things are getting strange. He comes in we look at cars he finally settles on a pre-owned Jeep that puts him in his payment range. Now we are trying to get them financed with guy number one as the buyer and guy number two as the co-buyer. We can't get it done because guy number 2 has horrid, bad, credit. NO bank will touch him. We tell them the situation and with the income they are both reporting why don't they just buy it with cash? We try to be nice about it but they make enough per month combined to buy the car on a single weeks income.
No, no, no they don't want to do that can't guy number 1 finance the car and have guy number 2 on the reg but not on the loan? Uhh no we can't do that that is illegal and a straw purchase. They get all huffy and kill the deal cause some other dealer says they will do it that way. We tell them go right ahead but you aren't supposed to do that it is illegal per State law.
They leave all huffy because we won't do what they want even though it is ILLEGAL.
So which dealer on here can tell us if the CARS system will allow dealers to enter in deals today and put an earlier date on the transaction that July 24th to make it go through? Just for educational purposes of course...We know nobody would ever take advantage of government money.
I am CST and it works perfect here till about 10:00 am and then it bogs down till about 8:00pm.
My wife is bringing a pizza and a 6 pack tonight after we close and we are going clunker claiming. I have about 10 submitted so far and have twice that many more to do. So far I think the program is a great success.
The people who don't like it are the ones who don't qualify. Duh??? The Toyota store is asking full sticker. Duh???? they do that everyday at the Toy stores here. I wonder when they are going to come off there high horse and figure out they have peaked and are not the primadonna they they think they are.
Until the back log of early sales from the beginning of the month are recorded i think this is all just speculation. Come Monday August 3rd we will have a much better idea of how much money is left.
I thought it would run out well before the original deadline and I think sometime by the end of August or first of September it will be all gone.
Found it..."FFS" stands for "Fuel Feedback System". Now, don't ask me what that means! :surprise: I thought it was a fancy way to say "carburetor", but then in looking around, I noticed that some fuel injected engines, like the 4.3 V-6 in an '85 Caprice or the 5.0/5.7 V-8's in a 1993 Caprice, are still "FFS". So then I thought okay, maybe it also includes those "TBI" fuel injection systems, which are essentially a carburetor with a fuel injection nozzle in them. But no, the 1994-96 Caprice and Impala SS, which were port-fuel injected, were still "FFS". But anyway, whatever it is, my Intrepid doesn't have it.
The EPA's acronym for those flex fuel cars is "FFV" for "Flexible Fuel Vehicle".
Fuel Feedback System probably means the older open loop style fuel injection system where the injectors only take whatever fuel they need and the rest is returned to the fuel tank with a second return line. Newer fuel injection systems are returnless and the fuel pump doesn't operate at a near constant high pressure duty cycle.
Comments
Who is To Blame?
Don’t blame the NHTSA or the EPA.
Congress handed the NHTSA a bill that required their staff to implement a new national rebate program in 30 days. If anyone knows what goes into planning a national IT infrastructure project that can handle ten of thousands of simultaneous Internet connections; the 30 day requirements was doomed for failure.
It was unrealistic to expect NHTSA lawyers to review a bill and come up with a comprehensive set of rules and guidelines in 30 days. They did a good job but there are so many unanswered questions, the Final Rule is just a final draft.
Our legislators drafted language that created this rush and stress on the automotive retail industry. It would seem that automotive retailers were really not part of the planning when the language of the bill was drafted.
So if Americans are feeling that there is a rush to get a health care bill passed is the CARS program a clear warning that rushing into another unrealistic expectation could spell disaster?
This mess is from the WORST Congress ever elected.
"Representatives Sander Levin of Michigan and Betty Sutton of Ohio, both Democrats, said this week that they may try to extend the program if the initial allotment is exhausted swiftly. "
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601209&sid=anhSjXp64Ul8
Why should they? They had to draw the line somewhere and you missed it. That's life. A lot of people are in the same boat.
" The dealer has not been very helpful"
What do you want the dealer to do? Ignore the rules and take in your non qualifing car?
Dealers are scared they won't get paid on the cars that do qualify!
Worst case senario would be you would have to make up the difference between the 3500.00 and what your car actually appraised for. Very doubtful they would distroy your car until they have the money or get declined.
I have to assume the dealer would be diligent in processing the paperwork.
http://www.cars.gov/
This rule (if true; I did not check) makes no sense, unless there is a guarantee of payment to dealers,
After the MPG revision and the scare of no funding left, I bet dealers will start implementing procedures to protect themselves. This is a business decision, not meant to be unfriendly to customers.
Uncharted waters and a bizarre program as never before.
No, not at all but some of the customers are acting like we are being the bad guys here.
I will refrain (man, it's hard) from making a political comment here!
I'm sure you don't. You don't have 3500-4500 dollars per car on the line, do you?
" I am certain that dealers are going to get fair warning that the fund is running low"
Really? do you know this for "certain"? If it were your dealership woujld YOU take the chance?
This time next month that might not be the case. Will be interesting to see what the estimate of funds left over looks like Monday afternoon once most of the back log of old deals is done.
Hmmm....where do I start......
Dealers were given NO logistical information until AFTER they registered for the program, which was difficult in it's own right. Our wonderful government gave no prior information to dealers ahead of time that indicated what any procedure would be for submitting a CARS deal. They decided to bombard every dealer with all the details all at once. This was all on Friday....
Now, here is the problem for submitting a CARS deal...
We have to scan several documents and have them submitted through a complex submission system which is constantly OVERLOADED with 20,000 dealers trying to do so at the same time. The system constantly freezes and logs you off stating "your session has been timed out". Geez...yet another inefficient government program.
My gripe is not with the idea of the program, but rather how complex it is. Maybe the government should have developed a system in joint with the auto manufactures and how they do their business. Auto manufacturers' systems are far more efficient for dealers to report sales.
The good is what it creates sales for my store and an American Citizen gets to in theory "sell" their POS to the Government for $3,500-$4,500. Not one vehicle I have taken in under the CARS program has had a trade value over $1,000.
The bad is how the program is carried out logisticaly and more unnecessary government spending.
I'm sure you don't. You don't have 3500-4500 dollars per car on the line, do you?
" I am certain that dealers are going to get fair warning that the fund is running low"
Really? do you know this for "certain"? If it were your dealership woujld YOU take the chance?
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I am sure you are making a profit on the cars you sell. The more you sell, the higher the profits. If dealers want to make a lot of money right now, they will make sure they are educated about this rebate, and make the transaction as painless as possible. End of story. This is a business transaction, and should not be emotional. The first dealer I went to was emotional, unhelpful, and generally ticked-off. Guess what, I went somewhere else. I am sure I am not alone. Make no mistake, I am sure most on this forum realize this is a giant headache for dealers, and requires multiple additional steps, but I am still going to spend my money where I feel most comfortable.
More than 22,330 dealers signed up to participate in the program, which the U.S. estimates will pay for as many as 250,000 vehicle sales, about 11 per dealer.
I hope my dealer can get my data into the system soon (if not already done)...
The government should save millions of the CARS promotion money on improving the computer system (hire Google to handle the data processing).
http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/bill/858-million-left-for-cars-program
for what it's worth (not much) the meter was just now updated to show 779 mil left for non CAT3, so about 11% gone.
A gift for tax purposes is exactly at the name inplies. It is given from one person to another without any future expectations. Good try for those of you trying to avoid sales tax, but if the underlying transaction is that the giftor gives the vehicle to the giftee and the giftee in turn gives cash to the giftor, it is not a gift transaction.
The amount for 2009 for a true gift is 13,000 per person before reporting of the gift is required. Even if the gift needs to be reported, it may not have tax due based on the persons lifetime gifts given.
A husband and wife can give 26,000 to a person (13K each). Likewise a person can give 26,000 to a husband and wife.
As a separate note, the sales tax deduction for federal tax is only available to the first purchaser. If one buys a car and turns around and resells it, the second person is buying a used car rather than a new one and the sales tax deduction is not allowed.
so it sounds like in order to get the company's name off the car, my aunt or i will have to purchase the car and pay all taxes...?
if my aunt gifts the car to me but i dont pay her for it, am i exempt from the taxes? the car is about 25k so sounds like she would have to report it.
thanks for the info!
Scared to DEATH here!!!!
I have been booted 3 times today from the submission system. I guess the only way to report these sales is to logon at 2AM when no one else is trying to report sales. I'm sure my wife will be happy with that....
the trouble is the number of pending sales yet to be processed is certainly much higher than that and nobody can do anything but guess how much is really left.
You are correct in that if your Aunt gifted it to you without you paying, she would need to report it, but unless she has gifted quite a bit over her lifetime, she would not owe tax. But, she would first have to xfer it to her instead of the corp.
If you buy it from the corp, you would owe sales tax on the FMV.
Do you think the rate of sales will remain the same? I've been wondering about that. I know people have been waiting for the program so there is the initial rush once the program rules rolled out so things are hopping this first week. I just wonder if the level will continue for the next month or two or taper off.
At this rate, the funds won't last long.
This has nothig to do with emotions just sound business sense. If a store was "unhelpful and "ticked off shame on them but don't fault them for trying to protect thier assets and we are talking about BIG dollars.
To me it looks like you think...
They wouldn't do what I wanted + BAD STORE
They did want I wanted = GOOD STORE
I can see how you would feel this way but I still have to wonder, as a business owner, what stance you would have taken.
This car has been manufactured in Canada and it is GM. So if CA stands for Cananda then this car qualifies
Some Clunker Deals Based On Old EPA Numbers Will Be Honored, DOT Rules
July 30, 2009
The U.S. Department of Transportation has ruled that deals involving cash for clunkers trade- CARS logo - 220.JPGins based on old mileage numbers and consummated before July 24 will be honored, but deals consummated after July 24 on vehicles that became ineligible as clunkers due to mileage ratings changes will not be honored.
He may have entered it in but it takes 3-5 days to get approval and then the dealer gets his money 10 days after that.
I forget what the "FFS" stands for, but the "CA" means that the car built under the stricter California/high altitude smog requirements. That means that the car puts out less pollution than a regular "49 state" car, but does so at the cost of fuel economy and horsepower. I know it sounds strange that the car can run cleaner, yet burn more fuel, but it does!
I think nowadays all cars are "50 state" cars, which makes things a little easier to decipher.
Unfortunately, I don't know if there's any way in the VIN to be able to tell whether your '85 is a "49 state" car or a "CA" car. Did you buy it brand-new? Or at least know where it was originally purchased?
They did want I wanted = GOOD STORE
Oh isn't that the truth. Some what off topic but somewhat not.
Back in the beginning of the month I had a guy that wanted to buy a wagon I think originally. Emailed in looking for lease numbers. They were higher then he wanted but I told him that is just how that wagon leases tell me what you are looking to spend per month and I can show you cars that will lease or finance in that range. He wouldn't tell me and that is fine cause everyone tells people not to tell the dealer what payment you want to be at. Sometimes that just makes things much more difficult like in this case.
A day or two goes by and I get a call from another guy who claims to be so and so's friend who is really going to be buying the car. Now things are getting strange. He comes in we look at cars he finally settles on a pre-owned Jeep that puts him in his payment range. Now we are trying to get them financed with guy number one as the buyer and guy number two as the co-buyer. We can't get it done because guy number 2 has horrid, bad, credit. NO bank will touch him. We tell them the situation and with the income they are both reporting why don't they just buy it with cash? We try to be nice about it but they make enough per month combined to buy the car on a single weeks income.
No, no, no they don't want to do that can't guy number 1 finance the car and have guy number 2 on the reg but not on the loan? Uhh no we can't do that that is illegal and a straw purchase. They get all huffy and kill the deal cause some other dealer says they will do it that way. We tell them go right ahead but you aren't supposed to do that it is illegal per State law.
They leave all huffy because we won't do what they want even though it is ILLEGAL.
My wife is bringing a pizza and a 6 pack tonight after we close and we are going clunker claiming. I have about 10 submitted so far and have twice that many more to do. So far I think the program is a great success.
The people who don't like it are the ones who don't qualify. Duh??? The Toyota store is asking full sticker. Duh???? they do that everyday at the Toy stores here. I wonder when they are going to come off there high horse and figure out they have peaked and are not the primadonna they they think they are.
We have had allot of plus business from it.
I thought it would run out well before the original deadline and I think sometime by the end of August or first of September it will be all gone.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The EPA's acronym for those flex fuel cars is "FFV" for "Flexible Fuel Vehicle".