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Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?

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Comments

  • 100chuck100chuck Member Posts: 149
    I did just the opposite I was going to keep my car one more year as my winter beater/daily driver and replace it with a focus next year. But with the C4C funds, rebates and 0% finance I was able to move up to an Escape.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Personally, I'm satisfied to see the average fuel economy of the US go up a trifle. Also, the clunkers likely polluted far more than their replacements so there will be an improvement in air quality.

    I don't disagree. However, it's interesting to me that nobody seems to calculate the environmental impact of actually manufacturing all these new cars, vs. keeping the old ones running on the road. It's nice to nominally increase the fuel mileage average, and see the clunkers go off the road, but the impact and cost of making new vehicles is considerably more than the incremental impact of a little more mpg, don't you think? :P
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    the impact and cost of making new vehicles is considerably more than the incremental impact of a little more mpg, don't you think?

    Everyone seems to have an opinion on this, but no one on either side seems to have any real numbers to back it up.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It's simple if you qualify then you get it. You must finance through TMCC though. If you pay cash or finance from elsewhere then you don't get it.

    If you do finance with TMCC then simply tell the dealer, it's no skin off his nose either way. He probably forgot to ask. However this is your responsibility to pursue. Again it doesn't matter one way or the other to the dealer.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes, we finance the car from the dealer

    That's NOT the same thing. You must be clear here. You must finance the vehicle through Toyota Motor Credit Corp. ( TMCC ). If you finance from the dealer and he puts the contract with CapOne or a local credit union or Bank of America then you do not get the college grad rebate.

    You must be clear about all the details.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    This has little or nothing to do with the environment. It's all about business.

    To take the environmental issue to the extreme producing/selling any manufactured product is bad. Was it bad for the environment when the industry produced and sold 16 MM vehicles annually? If so then only producing/selling 11 MM units is great for the environment. OTOH producing/selling 11 MM units is horrible for the environment as opposed to producing/selling ZERO units

    It's an illogical argument.
  • dkvndkvn Member Posts: 14
    Thank you

    I will ask the dealer but I am 99% sure that it is finance by TMCC since it is 0% in 3 years and I don't think any bank give that offer for the dealer except for TMCC

    I will call them tomorrow and hope everything will be OK
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i look at it this way, the dealer has some risk regarding the scrap value.
    the dealer is the seller and the buyer could decide to give them less.
    each dealer has their own business philosophy, so if you are ok with it, do business with them.
    plus, i want my selling dealer to stay in business, so if they make a couple of hundred extra on your deal, why sweat it?
    'penny wise and pound foolish' comes to mind.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mitchfloridamitchflorida Member Posts: 420
    I look it at this way, let each side , buyer and dealer follow the Federal Law. The dealer is required to give the consumer the scrap value of the trade-in, minus $50.

    To do otherwise is just a rip-off by the dealer.
  • garylegaryle Member Posts: 2
    We started actively looking right after C4C hit the news in a big way on Jul 24 -- the day the rules came out. (Had just heard about it for the first time a couple days earlier.) Settled on a Hyundai Elantra Touring -- a small wagon with good gas mileage -- 23 mpg city/30 hwy/26 avg. Had to get 26 mpg avg cause our "clunker" got 16 -- a 1989 Jeep Wrangler YJ that was really not a clunker -- still ran well, with only 115k miles on it, but definitely showing signs of age, and probably not worth more than $1k - 2k.

    Had to walk out of one dealership that didn't honor its price agreement of the night before, when we came back the next day with the insurance & registration paperwork on the clunker.

    Was in the middle of negotiating a deal with another dealer on the afternoon of July 30, when all the rumors and conflicting information started hitting the news about the program supposedly ending July 31. At that point, the dealer pulled their initial offer (at invoice price -- I was trying to get them to knock another $500 off) off the table and stopped selling for anything less than MSRP. Given all the FUD, we decided to go for it anyway. That cost us another $700 (the difference between invoice and MSRP) + possibly another $500 it seemed we were about to agree on, but we were getting a $1500 rebate from Hyundai that was going to end the next day, on top of the $4500 from the gov't (minus the value of our clunker) plus whatever scrap value we get.

    Given the popularity of C4C, the dealer was able to jack up their prices and sell at MSRP, at least on this model that was selling well enough that Hyundai did not extend their rebate on it into August, even though they did on several other models. I think the scrap dealers will really do well though, as I can see no incentive for them to pay anything beyond the minimum possible -- probably $100, if we're lucky. Our clunker has almost new tires on it they can resell. But, in the end, we did get a new car with an excellent warranty, for less than the price of a used car without one.

    In our case, I think the gov't did get what they wanted -- economic stimulus, as we wouldn't have been in the market for even a used car for probably at least another year, and we're now driving a vehicle with much better gas mileage than we probably would have gotten used.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    all things being equal, i would be driving my new car, and you would still be driving your POC. :P
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mitchfloridamitchflorida Member Posts: 420
    Not really, just take delivery and after about two weeks you just write the dealer asking for your rebate on the scrap value of the car. If the dealer refuses you can report him to the CARS program. At that point, the dealer will pay you the $150 or so he ows you. I don't feel sorry for the dealer at all, I want them to follow the law and not rip any one off.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    sorry, bigger things to keep in order than $150 on a car deal.
    bought new cars in march 08 and april 09, even without CARS.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mvs1mvs1 Member Posts: 462
    Well we had two deals in hand for a Honda EX-L 4WD w/ NAVI, $27085, including destination, dealer prep fees, etc, need only to add DMV and tax. This including the $500 MFG to dealer rebate....

    One said they "have" the car, the other would swap.

    Well we go in and the dealer stated they made a mistake and didn't have it, the other no says they won't swap.

    I've inquired through the web, and most dealers won't even return an email, or phone call....they seem to be taking advantage of the C4C program and all the customers it's pulling into showrooms to clear out their inventory.

    This is gonna be harder than I thought
  • kirronkirron Member Posts: 15
    I'm still waiting too - But only because my suburban 4WD 1500 is not on the list. My truck is in bad shape for a '98, but I thought there would at least a few people out there having the same problem. Anyone???? I'm getting messages from the EPA tellin me it has to do with curb weight for only '98, '99, which I find hard to believe.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    My truck is in bad shape for a '98, but I thought there would at least a few people out there having the same problem. Anyone???? I'm getting messages from the EPA tellin me it has to do with curb weight for only '98, '99, which I find hard to believe.

    I know that vehicles that have a GVWR rating of 8500 lb and up don't get tested for fuel economy, but I wonder if there is also some loophole for curb weight? I wonder if GM did something to the Suburban 1500 4wd in 1998-99 to make it just heavy enough to break some curb-weight threshold? It shows up again in the EPA's databbase for 2000-2008, but in 2009 it disappears again. Also, nowadays the 4wd version of the Avalanche 1500, as well as the Navigator and Expedition 4wd models, got exempted from EPA testing. And none of these vehicles come anywhere near that 8500 lb GVWR. I think it's more like 7300-7600.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Well, curb weight equals GVWR minus payload. So a simple change of rear springs, or perhaps a different-size fuel tank, or adding a third seat as standard equipment could alter the GVWR.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Well, curb weight equals GVWR minus payload. So a simple change of rear springs, or perhaps a different-size fuel tank, or adding a third seat as standard equipment could alter the GVWR.

    Yeah, but as you add on heavier things, like a bigger fuel tank or a standard 3rd row seat, you don't increase GVWR. Instead, you increase curb weight, which cuts into payload. Now heavier springs could theoretically increase the payload, thereby increasing the GVWR. However, the GVWR of a 1998-99 Suburban K1500 is still only around 7300 lb. I think curb weight is around 5300.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    I didn't say those things would increase GVWR. I said they could alter it. And those are precisely the sort of small things that might shift the GVWR from year to year.

    I think your estimate of the weight of a K1500 Suburban is about right--could be slightly heavier (K means 4wd, vs C for 2wd). I'm pretty sure you'd have to get a 2500-series to cross to the 8600 lb threshold.
  • acesk8eracesk8er Member Posts: 16
    Re:

    Not really, just take delivery and after about two weeks you just write the dealer asking for your rebate on the scrap value of the car. If the dealer refuses you can report him to the CARS program. At that point, the dealer will pay you the $150 or so he ows you. I don't feel sorry for the dealer at all, I want them to follow the law and not rip any one off.

    I took delivery of the vehicle, the $200 wasn't going to stop me. I was just totally ticked off about the dealer ripping me off, ripping you off, and and ripping off every other taxpayer in America. It stands to reason that if they're cheating on the scrap value provision of the CARS act then they're most probably NOT going to comply with any of the other provisions of the act. Used car exports are a big business in my part of the country and I have strong reason to believe that at this very moment my old truck is in a container on a ship under way to somewhere in South America with its engine intact.
  • acesk8eracesk8er Member Posts: 16
    (Double Post.)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    True story. We're running out of popular models. We're calling places up to 1500 miles away to see if they might have a few 'extra' units that they'd like to sell on a spot basis. The normal reaction is a huge guffaw....followed by 'Are you kidding? Where do we get our replacement units from?'

    It's not only the customers.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    What's the hottest/fastest/sportiest car that can be bought via C4C, theoretically?
    And who knows of a specific instance of someone buying such a hot car by trading a clunker?
    For example, did anyone buy a V6 stickshift camaro or hyundai genesis via C4C?

    Also, it might be fun to see side-by-side photos of folks clunkers, and the new car they got.

    And an alternate question - what the sportiest/fastest/hottest "clunker" *traded in* via C4C?

    ps - Let's hope next for a govt program for those of us with older-yet-well-functioning hips to be offered $4500 to have them removed and replaced with government-approved CO2-friendly hips.
  • smilinjackrosssmilinjackross Member Posts: 37
    I'm still waiting too - But only because my suburban 4WD 1500 is not on the list. My truck is in bad shape for a '98, but I thought there would at least a few people out there having the same problem. Anyone???? I'm getting messages from the EPA tellin me it has to do with curb weight for only '98, '99, which I find hard to believe.

    My understanding is that the curb weight is irrelevant, it's the GVWR that matters. The 98 and 99 Suburban 1500 4WD are not on the list, but they qualify. Your dealer needs to use the process documented below to submit the paperwork. I traded in a 99 Suburban 1500 4WD and have been approved.

    Unlisted Cars Process

    Don't believe what you hear when you call the hotlines. I talked to a rep at the CARS hotline and they said if a car's not on the list it won't go through, period. Some of them have no idea what they're talking about.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    What's the hottest/fastest/sportiest car that can be bought via C4C, theoretically?
    And who knows of a specific instance of someone buying such a hot car by trading a clunker? For example, did anyone buy a V6 stickshift camaro or hyundai genesis via C4C?


    Good question. Given that the Elise just misses the price cutoff, what else is out there? Not quite in the same league performance-wise, but what about a Miata? The base model starts around $20-21k, and the fuel economy is decent. For those with more money, there's the 335d, which I think just squeaks under the price cap.

    I needed a bit more space than a Miata, and couldn't stomach even a $20k purchase. I looked at the Genesis Coupe 2.0T and the Mazda 3s, but I chickened out on the basis of cost and wound up in a Fit instead. The Camaro would've been another good choice, and even quicker, but again, the real-world pricing and the scarcity of that car in my region pretty much killed that option.
  • kirronkirron Member Posts: 15
    I found the specs for my vehicle online and it looks like the curb weight didn't change from '97. Still, shouldn't it be eligible anyway?
  • smilinjackrosssmilinjackross Member Posts: 37
    I know that vehicles that have a GVWR rating of 8500 lb and up don't get tested for fuel economy, but I wonder if there is also some loophole for curb weight? I wonder if GM did something to the Suburban 1500 4wd in 1998-99 to make it just heavy enough to break some curb-weight threshold? It shows up again in the EPA's databbase for 2000-2008, but in 2009 it disappears again.

    Suburban k1500 curb weights, according to Edmunds.

    1997 - 5234, on fueleconomy.gov list
    1999 - 5297, not on fueleconomy.gov list
    2000 - 5123, on fueleconomy.gov list
    2008 - 5743, on fueleconomy.gov list
    2009 - 5743, not on fueleconomy.gov list

    Seems pretty random.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you traded in a Lincoln Town Car rated at 15 MPG you could get a new BMW 35D that is an absolute rocket. That is according to CARS.gov. The BMW is rated 27 MPG combined. They also say the BMW X5 35D is good for $4500 and it is probably one of the fastest SUVs on the highway. Easily capable of 30 MPG.
  • smilinjackrosssmilinjackross Member Posts: 37
    I found the specs for my vehicle online and it looks like the curb weight didn't change from '97. Still, shouldn't it be eligible anyway?

    Yes, it should. Has your dealer tried to submit it?
  • robbsonrobbson Member Posts: 1
    I have a GMC 1999 Suburban 4wd and have been told it's not on the list. How did you manage to get yours approved? Thanks! Robbson
  • smilinjackrosssmilinjackross Member Posts: 37
    I have a GMC 1999 Suburban 4wd and have been told it's not on the list. How did you manage to get yours approved? Thanks! Robbson

    I think the dealer just needs to follow the proper process:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1db290/1769#MSG1769
  • kirronkirron Member Posts: 15
    me too, but mine is the '98. Let's keep each other informed. Have you been trying to get yours on the list?
  • ruffytdogruffytdog Member Posts: 4
    I did the paperwork with my dealer on aug 2nd. Don't know when they finally submitted. I'm still waiting...
  • smilinjackrosssmilinjackross Member Posts: 37
    me too, but mine is the '98. Let's keep each other informed. Have you been trying to get yours on the list?

    Yes, I tried to get it on the list. I filled out the form on the fueleconomy web site, I emailed the fueleconomy email address and I called the EPA and CARS hotlines.

    Everyone I talked to said that the EPA knows there are vehicles missing from the list and that they are working to update the list. No one will give a definite timeline though.

    However, even though my car is still not on the list, my deal was approved last Friday and I have my new car and it's registered, insured, inspected, etc. Again, I don't believe that a car has to be on the list to be approved, but the dealer has to follow the correct process.

    Good luck with getting your deal done!
  • kathyc2kathyc2 Member Posts: 159
    The X5 would be over the MSRP cap.

    335D with no options and limited colors of white, red or black would work. Edmonds TMV 43139 less 4500 rebate less 4500 C4C less 900 deisel tax credit puts it at 33230. Pretty sweet!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Wow, almost makes me wish I had a clunker to trade in. 335d looks like a very cool car.

    My E55 qualifies, but as of yet it is still worth a bit more than $4500.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    The NHTSA rule actually goes only by base MSRP. So any 335d, regardless of options, would still qualify.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,200
    "...We're running out of popular models..."

    What brand do you sell? I've read stories of lots overflowing at the factory with 100-150 days supply. All of those lots empty?

    The worry that if I waited for the clunker program to buy a car there wouldn't be a good selection seems to have been correct.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    My E55 qualifies, but as of yet it is still worth a bit more than $4500.

    aHHH thats just till our new Socialist overlords ban all cars with more then 200 horsepower then it won't be worth anything. Better dump it now while you still can.

    :P

    that was sarcasm by the way.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Let me do some research for you, that is mentioned someplace in the 300 page twice revised rule book :D
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    If there progrtam is like Fords you should be able to find a number for there program and enroll yourself, then you just take the validation number to the dealer. easy peasy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    These commie socialist pinkos who are bound and determined to make the US become the USSR need to be stopped! 2010 will change everything!

    I am surprised my E55 qualifies...it does terrible in the city, maybe 15-16mpg average if I take it easy, but on any highway trip of 100 miles or more, I can get it to 25mpg without any hassle.

    I don't think my fintail would qualify either, even if there were no age limits. $4500 would be a very fair price for it...but I could never kill it for something like that.
  • houstonsquidhoustonsquid Member Posts: 1
    Long story short, I have a '88 F-150 that qualifies- for the most part. All except that I had a 21 day lapse of insurance in the last year. My question is this. If the dealership knowingly overlooks this requirement, what can come back on me? The dealership in question let me take the new vehicle home last Wednesday. They also saw the 21 day lapse in March on my insurance cards but are trying anyway. To say the least, I am a bit worried if they get my $4500 approved but end up getting caught in an audit later on down the road. Anyone know how strict the auditing is going to be? I also am supposed to go back up to the dealership this afternoon to fill out some other "paperwork". Should I be on the safe side and back out or ride it out? I think I already know the answer to this last question but that working air conditioner for my 4 year old sure is nice.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    My father is driving two minivans now and was trying to convince me to trade in my "clunker" (a '97 VW Passat with VR6 engine, 4-speed Auto trans, and 190,000 miles) in order to buy him a more fuel efficient vehicle. I did some research and found that majority of websites/CARS calculators have determined that my "clunker" has missed the MPG limit by a mere 1 MPG!!! (some calculators said 18 MPG combined while a vast majority said 19 MPG combined)!!! However, in retrospect, I'm not lamenting my "opportunity" to take advantage of this program...

    Yours is one that became eligible with the data correction on July 24.
    http://www.cars.gov/files/eligible.pdf

    So...rather than deciding whether to lament or not, you actually have to decide whether to klunkerize or not.
  • kathyc2kathyc2 Member Posts: 159
    You are correct. My bad!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Good God, no! I would never kill something like your fintail with sodium silicate solution just for $4500 credit towards something like a dinky Corolla. My Cadillac Brougham would qualify as it meets the age and mileage requirements, but I'd sooner drink a Draino and lacquer thinner cocktail than kill my Brougham!!!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I wonder if you could arrange to somehow buy back your "clunker" after it's been euthanized? I could see this as an opportunity to put in a better engine if you really wanted. For example, let's suppose you had grandma's '84 Electra hanging around, still in semi-decent shape, but not really worth much. So, you trade it for something more efficient, get that $4500 rebate, then make a deal to buy the car back. Then, yank out that fried 307, 252, or Diesel, and throw in something fun, like a 455! :shades:

    Of course, that kills the whole concept of getting the guzzlers off the road, and you end up with something worse...instead of a car that could get lower 20's on the highway, now you've got some wolf in sheep's clothing that is probably lucky to get 12-13!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I am the same way, I could not have a clear conscience killing the car like that, not something so old and now with some sentimental value.

    I was thinking, probably a few W126s and maybe W124s will meet their fate with this bill - miled up neglected heaps beyond reasonable salvation, worth far less than $4500 or even $3500. But still, it makes me wince thinking of them being killed like that. At least there's always a market for MB parts, so they will live on in some form.

    I have to believe there is fine print against buying these cars back. Too much of an open door for fraud, unless you bought it back for the amount of your federal gift.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    How about a 1979 New Yorker with a 426 Hemi? Per Cadillac engines, I wonder if I could stuff a 472 from a 1969 Cadillac in there?

    Anyway, check out the October 2009 edition of Collectible Automobile. They've got an article on the 1973-77 Pontiac LeMans.
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