Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
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I don't disagree. However, it's interesting to me that nobody seems to calculate the environmental impact of actually manufacturing all these new cars, vs. keeping the old ones running on the road. It's nice to nominally increase the fuel mileage average, and see the clunkers go off the road, but the impact and cost of making new vehicles is considerably more than the incremental impact of a little more mpg, don't you think? :P
Everyone seems to have an opinion on this, but no one on either side seems to have any real numbers to back it up.
If you do finance with TMCC then simply tell the dealer, it's no skin off his nose either way. He probably forgot to ask. However this is your responsibility to pursue. Again it doesn't matter one way or the other to the dealer.
That's NOT the same thing. You must be clear here. You must finance the vehicle through Toyota Motor Credit Corp. ( TMCC ). If you finance from the dealer and he puts the contract with CapOne or a local credit union or Bank of America then you do not get the college grad rebate.
You must be clear about all the details.
To take the environmental issue to the extreme producing/selling any manufactured product is bad. Was it bad for the environment when the industry produced and sold 16 MM vehicles annually? If so then only producing/selling 11 MM units is great for the environment. OTOH producing/selling 11 MM units is horrible for the environment as opposed to producing/selling ZERO units
It's an illogical argument.
I will ask the dealer but I am 99% sure that it is finance by TMCC since it is 0% in 3 years and I don't think any bank give that offer for the dealer except for TMCC
I will call them tomorrow and hope everything will be OK
the dealer is the seller and the buyer could decide to give them less.
each dealer has their own business philosophy, so if you are ok with it, do business with them.
plus, i want my selling dealer to stay in business, so if they make a couple of hundred extra on your deal, why sweat it?
'penny wise and pound foolish' comes to mind.
To do otherwise is just a rip-off by the dealer.
Had to walk out of one dealership that didn't honor its price agreement of the night before, when we came back the next day with the insurance & registration paperwork on the clunker.
Was in the middle of negotiating a deal with another dealer on the afternoon of July 30, when all the rumors and conflicting information started hitting the news about the program supposedly ending July 31. At that point, the dealer pulled their initial offer (at invoice price -- I was trying to get them to knock another $500 off) off the table and stopped selling for anything less than MSRP. Given all the FUD, we decided to go for it anyway. That cost us another $700 (the difference between invoice and MSRP) + possibly another $500 it seemed we were about to agree on, but we were getting a $1500 rebate from Hyundai that was going to end the next day, on top of the $4500 from the gov't (minus the value of our clunker) plus whatever scrap value we get.
Given the popularity of C4C, the dealer was able to jack up their prices and sell at MSRP, at least on this model that was selling well enough that Hyundai did not extend their rebate on it into August, even though they did on several other models. I think the scrap dealers will really do well though, as I can see no incentive for them to pay anything beyond the minimum possible -- probably $100, if we're lucky. Our clunker has almost new tires on it they can resell. But, in the end, we did get a new car with an excellent warranty, for less than the price of a used car without one.
In our case, I think the gov't did get what they wanted -- economic stimulus, as we wouldn't have been in the market for even a used car for probably at least another year, and we're now driving a vehicle with much better gas mileage than we probably would have gotten used.
bought new cars in march 08 and april 09, even without CARS.
One said they "have" the car, the other would swap.
Well we go in and the dealer stated they made a mistake and didn't have it, the other no says they won't swap.
I've inquired through the web, and most dealers won't even return an email, or phone call....they seem to be taking advantage of the C4C program and all the customers it's pulling into showrooms to clear out their inventory.
This is gonna be harder than I thought
I know that vehicles that have a GVWR rating of 8500 lb and up don't get tested for fuel economy, but I wonder if there is also some loophole for curb weight? I wonder if GM did something to the Suburban 1500 4wd in 1998-99 to make it just heavy enough to break some curb-weight threshold? It shows up again in the EPA's databbase for 2000-2008, but in 2009 it disappears again. Also, nowadays the 4wd version of the Avalanche 1500, as well as the Navigator and Expedition 4wd models, got exempted from EPA testing. And none of these vehicles come anywhere near that 8500 lb GVWR. I think it's more like 7300-7600.
Yeah, but as you add on heavier things, like a bigger fuel tank or a standard 3rd row seat, you don't increase GVWR. Instead, you increase curb weight, which cuts into payload. Now heavier springs could theoretically increase the payload, thereby increasing the GVWR. However, the GVWR of a 1998-99 Suburban K1500 is still only around 7300 lb. I think curb weight is around 5300.
I think your estimate of the weight of a K1500 Suburban is about right--could be slightly heavier (K means 4wd, vs C for 2wd). I'm pretty sure you'd have to get a 2500-series to cross to the 8600 lb threshold.
Not really, just take delivery and after about two weeks you just write the dealer asking for your rebate on the scrap value of the car. If the dealer refuses you can report him to the CARS program. At that point, the dealer will pay you the $150 or so he ows you. I don't feel sorry for the dealer at all, I want them to follow the law and not rip any one off.
I took delivery of the vehicle, the $200 wasn't going to stop me. I was just totally ticked off about the dealer ripping me off, ripping you off, and and ripping off every other taxpayer in America. It stands to reason that if they're cheating on the scrap value provision of the CARS act then they're most probably NOT going to comply with any of the other provisions of the act. Used car exports are a big business in my part of the country and I have strong reason to believe that at this very moment my old truck is in a container on a ship under way to somewhere in South America with its engine intact.
It's not only the customers.
And who knows of a specific instance of someone buying such a hot car by trading a clunker?
For example, did anyone buy a V6 stickshift camaro or hyundai genesis via C4C?
Also, it might be fun to see side-by-side photos of folks clunkers, and the new car they got.
And an alternate question - what the sportiest/fastest/hottest "clunker" *traded in* via C4C?
ps - Let's hope next for a govt program for those of us with older-yet-well-functioning hips to be offered $4500 to have them removed and replaced with government-approved CO2-friendly hips.
My understanding is that the curb weight is irrelevant, it's the GVWR that matters. The 98 and 99 Suburban 1500 4WD are not on the list, but they qualify. Your dealer needs to use the process documented below to submit the paperwork. I traded in a 99 Suburban 1500 4WD and have been approved.
Unlisted Cars Process
Don't believe what you hear when you call the hotlines. I talked to a rep at the CARS hotline and they said if a car's not on the list it won't go through, period. Some of them have no idea what they're talking about.
And who knows of a specific instance of someone buying such a hot car by trading a clunker? For example, did anyone buy a V6 stickshift camaro or hyundai genesis via C4C?
Good question. Given that the Elise just misses the price cutoff, what else is out there? Not quite in the same league performance-wise, but what about a Miata? The base model starts around $20-21k, and the fuel economy is decent. For those with more money, there's the 335d, which I think just squeaks under the price cap.
I needed a bit more space than a Miata, and couldn't stomach even a $20k purchase. I looked at the Genesis Coupe 2.0T and the Mazda 3s, but I chickened out on the basis of cost and wound up in a Fit instead. The Camaro would've been another good choice, and even quicker, but again, the real-world pricing and the scarcity of that car in my region pretty much killed that option.
Suburban k1500 curb weights, according to Edmunds.
1997 - 5234, on fueleconomy.gov list
1999 - 5297, not on fueleconomy.gov list
2000 - 5123, on fueleconomy.gov list
2008 - 5743, on fueleconomy.gov list
2009 - 5743, not on fueleconomy.gov list
Seems pretty random.
Yes, it should. Has your dealer tried to submit it?
I think the dealer just needs to follow the proper process:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1db290/1769#MSG1769
Yes, I tried to get it on the list. I filled out the form on the fueleconomy web site, I emailed the fueleconomy email address and I called the EPA and CARS hotlines.
Everyone I talked to said that the EPA knows there are vehicles missing from the list and that they are working to update the list. No one will give a definite timeline though.
However, even though my car is still not on the list, my deal was approved last Friday and I have my new car and it's registered, insured, inspected, etc. Again, I don't believe that a car has to be on the list to be approved, but the dealer has to follow the correct process.
Good luck with getting your deal done!
335D with no options and limited colors of white, red or black would work. Edmonds TMV 43139 less 4500 rebate less 4500 C4C less 900 deisel tax credit puts it at 33230. Pretty sweet!
My E55 qualifies, but as of yet it is still worth a bit more than $4500.
What brand do you sell? I've read stories of lots overflowing at the factory with 100-150 days supply. All of those lots empty?
The worry that if I waited for the clunker program to buy a car there wouldn't be a good selection seems to have been correct.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
aHHH thats just till our new Socialist overlords ban all cars with more then 200 horsepower then it won't be worth anything. Better dump it now while you still can.
:P
that was sarcasm by the way.
I am surprised my E55 qualifies...it does terrible in the city, maybe 15-16mpg average if I take it easy, but on any highway trip of 100 miles or more, I can get it to 25mpg without any hassle.
I don't think my fintail would qualify either, even if there were no age limits. $4500 would be a very fair price for it...but I could never kill it for something like that.
Yours is one that became eligible with the data correction on July 24.
http://www.cars.gov/files/eligible.pdf
So...rather than deciding whether to lament or not, you actually have to decide whether to klunkerize or not.
Of course, that kills the whole concept of getting the guzzlers off the road, and you end up with something worse...instead of a car that could get lower 20's on the highway, now you've got some wolf in sheep's clothing that is probably lucky to get 12-13!
I was thinking, probably a few W126s and maybe W124s will meet their fate with this bill - miled up neglected heaps beyond reasonable salvation, worth far less than $4500 or even $3500. But still, it makes me wince thinking of them being killed like that. At least there's always a market for MB parts, so they will live on in some form.
I have to believe there is fine print against buying these cars back. Too much of an open door for fraud, unless you bought it back for the amount of your federal gift.
Anyway, check out the October 2009 edition of Collectible Automobile. They've got an article on the 1973-77 Pontiac LeMans.