Okay. Seems a bunch of the 'excess' inventory has been removed from dealer stock by the Cash for Clunkers rush. I wonder what inventories over all are like now? I remember earlier when sales crashed seeing pictures of lots overflowing with excess inventory, some off the boat and some from US plants. Had that inventory been reduced considerabily by decreased production BEFORE the C for C programs 'increased' demand? If there is still some excess inventory at manufacturers, I would assume restocking of dealer inventory would be in process.
Anybody know about that? Just curious with discussions about tighter supply lowering discounts.
Some dealers are dropping out of the cash-for-clunkers program as concerns about payment delays and administrative snarls mount.
"I've got to start getting paid," said Ron Morehead Jr., general manager of a Honda dealership in Kingston, N.Y. "Enough is enough."
Morehead decided this morning to suspend clunker sales. He has already had to turn customers away. He said he has yet to receive payment for any of his 42 clunker deals worth about $175,000.
Morehead isn't the only one. More than 70 dealers out of about 580said they also had suspended clunker sales because of repayment concerns and other headaches they've had managing the program.
Duke Brubaker, general sales manager of Champion Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Mazda in Owensboro, Ky., said Champion stopped clunker sales Friday night.
"It's just a mess, an absolute mess," Brubaker told Automotive News. "There is a billion dollars of dealerships' money on the road."
$1.72 billion in claims
As of today, dealers had submitted claims to the U.S. government for 411,624 clunker transactions worth $1.72 billion. The government has not said how much has been reimbursed to dealers. But at the end of last week, only a small fraction had been paid, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association and some state dealer associations.
With its 50 deals, Champion is owed about $210,000, Brubaker said. He has received no transaction approvals from the U.S. government even though he submitted his first deal on July 27. Several were rejected in what a program administrator later described to the dealership as a system error on the government's end, Brubaker said.
Even dealerships that are sticking with the program for now are debating their continued participation.
Joe Cardello, general manager of Jay Wolfe Toyota-Scion of Kansas City, Mo., said he had decided Monday to suspend clunkers deals because of lack of payment. "I was getting a little nervous," Cardello said.
But his majority partner opted to continue clunker sales -- for now. The dealership has written 77 deals and has been paid for 18 so far, Cardello said. That leaves the dealership waiting for $250,000 or so in reimbursements.
Accountant's warning
Carl Woodward, a dealership accountant in Bloomington, Ill., is warning his clients to be careful about writing any new deals.
"If the government is this far behind, those dealers that submit deals at the end might not be paid," Woodward told clients in an e-mail message.
Dealers expressed anger and frustration about how the program has been administered so far. One told Automotive News that he took a baseball bat to the windshield of one of the vehicles turned in by a customer.
Said Morehead: "Good thing I had a clunker here on the lot. I took my frustrations out on the car, instead of throwing my computer through the window."
I think Automotive News keeps a weekly tally of inventory. From what I've seen new inventory is less than zero. Friday when I was at my dealer I reported that there was just a few big guzzlers left on the lot. Monday I was back and even the showroom was empty.
I wonder how long it take to get new product delivered to a dealer? Assuming there is any left at the factory does it take days, weeks or months to get more.
When I inquired about factory ordering some time ago I was told times that varied from 3 weeks to 3 months to "we stopped making cars".
Any dealers care to comment?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wow.... a statement like that really says a lot about your self.........
The auto business is a "market" business.... If the market is calling for window sticker on vehicles why should we only charge people that are buying CFC and not someone who isn't doing it.... Prices are reflected on what is going on in the market once again just so you understand.
Just like seafood.... The price of Lobster one day could be $6 / pound and than two days later be $9/ pound.....
The new car market has been hurting for quite some time.... Now the market is hot and you want to call us scum bags... well everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Just curious what do you do for work? do you work for free?
The difference is if a customer asks the movie theater or coffee shop to let them buy the beverage for $5 instead of $6, it does not happen. It is not the customer that created the system of individually negotiated prices on new vehicles.
Dealers are free to go to a fixed price model, such as places like Fitzmall have.
There have been long delays in payment, and the Obama Administration has the nerve to order car dealers to give buyers their new cars without regard for payment. An interest free loan for the car dealers, and potential for huge losses if all the i's aren't dotted and the t's aren't crossed to their satisfaction.
Obama has also ordered dealers not to require the buyers to promise to make up the $4500 credit if the federal govt. doesn't pay up.
NHTSA has decided to classify trucks with GVWR under 8,500 lbs. and curb weight over 6,000 lbs. as Category 3 trucks. They will be adding a FAQ on this issue tonight, so it should be on cars.gov by tomorrow.
www.fueleconomy.gov
However, I do not beleive that my Suburban is "over" 6000lbs "Curb Weight". Does anyone have any info? I have been going back and forth with these guys trying to get resolution. Does Cat3 mean no car, only $3500, but a "TRUCK"?
"I wonder how long it take to get new product delivered to a dealer? Assuming there is any left at the factory does it take days, weeks or months to get more. "
I have not been able to find out if those overflowing storage lots we saw pictures of last year are still full. I did ask a golf buddy that manages or dispatches for one of the largest motor carries specializing in the delivery of cars and light trucks. He says their business is booming. He has guys back at work that have been laid off since Christmas. So, I guess there is some new inventory being delivered. I would think for inventory sitting in storage, deliveries could probably start up within a week, at most 2 weeks even for those that have to be loaded onto rail and hauled to distribution centers then loaded onto trucks for final delivery. Those that have to be built before shipping could take a little longer. I saw where Ford, GM and Toyota are upping production some, but if this a short term buying spree and demand goes back down not sure if there is much long term benefit.
It's not common here in the US, but there are still plenty of things you can negotiate on. Prices for a house, a car, or even a mattress, for starters.
Heck, go to Brazil and you haggle on just about everything, even fruit.
I think the real difference, though, is the expectation that a customer can walk in and pay the dealer's cost for any car they want, even if said car is in short supply. Dealers don't work for free, they have to try to make a profit the few chances they get.
No one at that dealership let you walk out the door with a window sticker from a car two weeks ago.
You had an actual Mulroney label from a new car in your hand? The real sticker that is put their as a requirement from gov't on every new car and cannot be removed till it is sold.
No one leaves with the window sticker of a new car unless they bought that car.
You sure the car on the floor and the car you had priced out before were the same car?
According to Edmunds you can price out a Accent above 17,000 MSRP.
what has this program done to people who do not have a clunker and need to trade their car in? i am assuming that trade in values have suffered since the clunker program started,am i correct in my thinking on this?
The whining made reference to coffee and soft drinks, not mattresses or houses.
This is not Brazil.
I hope your intent is not to attempt to perpetuate the mythology that the invoice prices, available here and many other places, represent actual dealer cost.
I do agree that one should expect the market price to rise when demand is high compared to supply. Dealers are even free to demand over sticker price, if buyers don't like the price that a dealer is offering, they should just go eleswhere (or more conveniently just email some other dealers), not whine that it is unfair or whatever. By the same token car salesman should stop their perpetual whining about buyers "forcing" them to sell cars at little or no supposed "profit". It is not the buyer's responsibility to ensure that prices are high enough to provide you with what you feel is an adequate commission.
There's always something that sets off the "unfair price" debate.
When I bought my first Ody it was in the days when you couldn't touch one for less than sticker but that was what I wanted. I had a few choices - buy used, which I declined because the used ones were going for as much as the new ones because they could be delivered immediately; pay over MSRP, another declined option because I plain don't believe in doing such a thing. Others might do so and they will have no complaint from me but I won't do it - or more specifically nothing has tempted me to do it. I settled on option three which was one of several dealers who would take a deposit to sell you one at MSRP but you ware on a waiting line. Turned out this dealer had another location and I ended up with a much shorter wait than quoted so I was happy.
The folks that are preaching wait until the clunkers program is over and teh prices will drop back down are correct.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
That's not what I want to hear. So a mom carting her kids around in a '97 can get 4500.00 and 3 seat RAV that gets 26mpg, but I have to get another Suburban that I can't afford and is probably too pricey for the program anyway, or a truck!!! great.
"the expectation that a customer can walk in and pay the dealer's cost for any car they want, even if said car is in short supply"
Even if the marketer/carmaker has created buzz about demand that DOES NOT EXIST? Remember the Acura TL of late 2006 (2007) models...... What a JOKE! Dealerships were expounding the rarity of the car while "lot queens" sat all summer getting sunburned while managers cried out "Hold the line!' Nice car but definitely NOT exclusive!
If you're selling dogs that nobody wants (or they want it at a price that is more in line with competition) but the manufacturer is in another universe with their "take" on marketing.... suffer the little dealerships. The latest "false buzz" is Minii's..... Good luck - nobody cares!
Cash for Clunkers has created false demand with hype. The first (factual, just tune into your local news) reports are coming out that the dealerships are....... waiting for the money. They have obviously never dealt with the Federal Government before. They're in for a rude surprise.
My little "Area 51" that I'm not suppose to talk about is MASSIVE inventory that is hidden from public view and warehoused.... If the public only knew!!!!!
I am confused about why "short supply" is still an issue with C4C?
The Feds changed the rules that the car doesn't have to be on the lot anymore... As long as its already on the "production line", it can be used for C4C.
Seems to me the supply/demand issue should be null at this point.
Is it that the dealers are still trying to hide this fact, so they can claim short supply, and kick up the prices?
Or is it that even the "on production line" vehicles are already sold as well?
Can't the various car manufacturers just allocate the VINs ahead of time for the "soon to be built" vehicles?
The folks that are preaching wait until the clunkers program is over and teh prices will drop back down are correct. ,
Yep, anyone who does not have a clunker should sit on the sidelines and wait if at all possible, IMO. That is especially true if they are looking to buy something that has been popular amngst the clunker dumpers.
Maybe if we wait for the hoopla to die down Congress will throw more money at the program and raise the bar on clunkers to get more off the road. I would sell my POC for $6500. Feinstein, you listening? Up the ante and get more junk off the road. Then to cover the poor folks that cannot afford the payments on the remainder they could add to it. Bring in your old clunker and we will just give you a new car. Compliments of Obama Motors INC.
Mike Jackson from Autonation just announced on CNBC that they are still owed over 45 million for Cash for Clunkers. The Federal Government (as usual) never gets passed the first chapter of "Basic Economics", asking them about cash flow is like asking a ten-year-old why their bedroom is messy - you just get this blank look.....
Over all, oddly enough, he still seems to support the program.
"Waste is the biggest component to the squandering of all resources."
I've seen variations on this idea over the years, and it seems to me to have merit. I'd like to see some objective research done on this to prove or disprove it. The problem is I don't know where the money would come from; that is, who would stand to gain by it, to justify the expenditure?
A related topic on "News & Views" is "Go Green By Driving It 'Til the Wheels Fall Off." Take a look, and see what you think of the comments.
A sound principle, in theory. But basic economics suggests that most people will reduce the money they are willing to invest in maintenance as the vehicle depreciates. Thus, at some point the vehicle may become an ill-maintained "gross polluter" while still in the hands of the original owner, or it may be sold to someone who does not care that certain features no longer work as designed--and that new owner will not have the money to continue to maintain the car properly.
What would work for me would be a program more specifically targeted at reducing the MPG of the total fleet. Say a program that would give incentive to get a vehicle with 5 or 10 more mpg than the one you are trading in. It would allow someone like me to trade an old Accord in for a Fit.
Admittedly right now if they said 'we'll give you $4,500 for the Accord" I'd probably decline since I could get that for it by selling it and it's still got life in it. Just a thought.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I don't think the program helped at all to get vehicles off the road that were owned by folks too poor to maintain their vehicles. I see them every day here. Most are worn out Japanese compacts and midsized from the 1980s. As has been pointed out the program was a windfall for the dealers and those that could afford to buy a new car with or without the C4C program. Moving tin to make it look like Congress and Obama have done something good with the billions wasted so far on Stimulus.
Ya'll may already know this, but here's a link for those who may not realize it, but this year for your 2009 return, IF you purchased a new car, you may be able to deduct state, & local sales tax paid EVEN if you don't itemize. link: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=205863,00.html
He still supports it because it has let him sell a lot of cars and clear the decks for the 2010s.
Also what everyone keeps ignoring is that most manufactures make the dealership wait a month before their get their rebate money anyway.
Now if there is still a big bottleneck on getting deals processed at the end of august when the program has been live for a month we will hear a lot more complaining.
NY dealers pull out of clunkers program Aug 19 02:00 PM US/Eastern By DAN STRUMPF AP Auto Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - Hundreds of auto dealers in the New York area have withdrawn from the government's Cash for Clunkers program, citing delays in getting reimbursed by the government, a dealership group said Wednesday.
The Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association, which represents dealerships in the New York metro area, said about half its 425 members have left the program because they cannot afford to offer more rebates. They're also worried about getting repaid.
Many dealers have said they are worried they won't get repaid at all, while others have waited so long to get reimbursed they don't have the cash to fund any more rebates, Schienberg said.
"The program is a great program in the sense that it's creating a lot of floor traffic that a lot of dealers haven't seen in a long time," he said.
"But it's in the hands of this enormous bureaucracy and regulatory agency," he added. "If they don't get out of their own way, this program is going to be a huge failure."
Has anyone heard of any buyers having to reimburse a dealership for any CFC funds that were not received? Was it because the dealer screwed up or because the buyer gave false info? I just did a CFC deal (1989 Ford Bronco II for 2010 Honda Odyssey) and now having bad thoughts of the dealership coming to me months later asking for $3,500. Everything on my side was legit but I have pessimistic nature.
It was started the first time a seller and a buyer agreed to it. There is no mystery here. Two people found an arrangement that benefitted both parties and the rest is history.
This undated booking photo provided by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office shows Timothy M. Kissida. Kissida, 23, who is accused of trading in his BMW using the Cash for Clunkers program to get rid of it after a fatal hit-and-run crash, is due in a Phoenix court Thursday, Aug. 20, 2009. Prosecutors have charged him with leaving the scene of a fatal injury accident and tampering with evidence. (AP Photo/Maricopa County Sheriff's Office
The fact is it is the dealers that are responsible for the creation of the system, no car can be sold without a dealer agreeing to it. The dealers chose not to have set prices and stick with them and instead decided to go with the "make me an offer" model.
Tomorrow any dealer can end it by following the model of Fitzmall and others and just saying "no" to any offers other than their set price.
This just another hoax by government. How green is this program?It takes a lot of resources to produce a car why junk it before its paid back the useful life. Also chances are u could have gotten 4500.00 off of sticker price without the government or trading in your clunker. This is just another fast talking car salesman deal. This also is going to hurt a lot of people whom can not afford a new car but do need transportation to work because there will not be as many used cars and those that are left will be higher priced. This is not going to help the working class or the poor in the long run. It will help government motors{GM} and the other auto makers. This does not make any since.
I thought I was the only one who strongly felt this way till I read some postings. Last week, I was about to close a deal for one of the leading Japanese brands from a dealer in a city right beside Los Angeles. At the last minute I was told that all customers with CARS rebate will no longer have any other discounts. Right off, the $2000 additional discount I was supposed to get was gone. I was advised that the policy took effect that very minute. Those with CARS rebate will have the $3500 or $4,500 deducted from the MSRP and are not entitled to their usual discounts from MSRP & get NOTHING MORE. I felt like a big fool. Adding insult to injury, I was told I should proceed with the purchase at that very moment since the supply is getting really tight and that the funds for the CARS program will be gone really fast. For a while I was tempted to ahead. However, I realized that I will not allow myself to be fooled any further. Up to yesterday, I was having second thoughts whether I made the right decision to delay buying a new car until I read entries in this forum and the ABCNEWS online article of 8/18/09 written by CHARLES HERMAN and quote the relevant paragraphs below:
"As Cash for Clunkers enters its fourth week, Edmunds.com, a Web site for car buyers and sellers, reports the number of people taking advantage of the program appears to be on the decline. "Now that there is plenty of money in the program and the most eager shoppers have already participated, the sense of urgency is gone, and the pace of intent decline is accelerating," said Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl. "Inventories are getting lean and prices are climbing, giving consumers reasons to sit back." Edmunds.com concluded that sales activity last week was down 15 percent from the peak in July."
How I wish I could divulge the dealer’s name. However, I think this is not limited to this dealership as the usual ads highlighting the benefits for the CARS program last weekend in the L.A. Times were toned down. Likewise, I called several dealerships and their usual first question was whether I had a clunker. I would just hang up the phone because I knew what was coming. Of course they have all the right to give discounts or not. Don’t these dealers realize that these CARS recipients were the ones that brought them back to life? Now they want to screw the goose that lays the golden eggs. If this is not greed I don’t know what you can call it.
Is there a way we can get the truth out there and ask those planning to buy a new car to postpone doing so for a month or so and put these dealers back to where they were a month ago?
I do not agree with this program cash for clunkers. It has nothing to do with how i feel about our president. I do not feel this program is good for the enviorment as some would like to believe.
I hear Los Angeles is a snake pit with the dealers, so it doesn't surprise me that they'd try to intimidate buyers. The C4C rebate is just another rebate alloted to the buyer and seperate from any other manufacturer rebate and also seperate from any negotiated price from the dealer. You walked away. You did good.
I can see the dealers not giving much of a discount as the govt. is slow in giving them the C4C money, so that would affect the price, but not by much.
Also, I see no reason why you cannot disclose the dealers name.
Comments
Anybody know about that? Just curious with discussions about tighter supply lowering discounts.
Bill
Exactly!
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"I've got to start getting paid," said Ron Morehead Jr., general manager of a Honda dealership in Kingston, N.Y. "Enough is enough."
Morehead decided this morning to suspend clunker sales. He has already had to turn customers away. He said he has yet to receive payment for any of his 42 clunker deals worth about $175,000.
Morehead isn't the only one. More than 70 dealers out of about 580said they also had suspended clunker sales because of repayment concerns and other headaches they've had managing the program.
Duke Brubaker, general sales manager of Champion Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Mazda in Owensboro, Ky., said Champion stopped clunker sales Friday night.
"It's just a mess, an absolute mess," Brubaker told Automotive News. "There is a billion dollars of dealerships' money on the road."
$1.72 billion in claims
As of today, dealers had submitted claims to the U.S. government for 411,624 clunker transactions worth $1.72 billion. The government has not said how much has been reimbursed to dealers. But at the end of last week, only a small fraction had been paid, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association and some state dealer associations.
With its 50 deals, Champion is owed about $210,000, Brubaker said. He has received no transaction approvals from the U.S. government even though he submitted his first deal on July 27. Several were rejected in what a program administrator later described to the dealership as a system error on the government's end, Brubaker said.
Even dealerships that are sticking with the program for now are debating their continued participation.
Joe Cardello, general manager of Jay Wolfe Toyota-Scion of Kansas City, Mo., said he had decided Monday to suspend clunkers deals because of lack of payment. "I was getting a little nervous," Cardello said.
But his majority partner opted to continue clunker sales -- for now. The dealership has written 77 deals and has been paid for 18 so far, Cardello said. That leaves the dealership waiting for $250,000 or so in reimbursements.
Accountant's warning
Carl Woodward, a dealership accountant in Bloomington, Ill., is warning his clients to be careful about writing any new deals.
"If the government is this far behind, those dealers that submit deals at the end might not be paid," Woodward told clients in an e-mail message.
Dealers expressed anger and frustration about how the program has been administered so far. One told Automotive News that he took a baseball bat to the windshield of one of the vehicles turned in by a customer.
Said Morehead: "Good thing I had a clunker here on the lot. I took my frustrations out on the car, instead of throwing my computer through the window."
I think Automotive News keeps a weekly tally of inventory. From what I've seen new inventory is less than zero. Friday when I was at my dealer I reported that there was just a few big guzzlers left on the lot. Monday I was back and even the showroom was empty.
I wonder how long it take to get new product delivered to a dealer? Assuming there is any left at the factory does it take days, weeks or months to get more.
When I inquired about factory ordering some time ago I was told times that varied from 3 weeks to 3 months to "we stopped making cars".
Any dealers care to comment?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wow.... a statement like that really says a lot about your self.........
The auto business is a "market" business.... If the market is calling for window sticker on vehicles why should we only charge people that are buying CFC and not someone who isn't doing it.... Prices are reflected on what is going on in the market once again just so you understand.
Just like seafood.... The price of Lobster one day could be $6 / pound and than two days later be $9/ pound.....
The new car market has been hurting for quite some time.... Now the market is hot and you want to call us scum bags... well everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Just curious what do you do for work? do you work for free?
GP
Or a $6.00 coffee at name brand shops (Starbucks?).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Anyone paying $5 plus for a cup of coffee really should watch the movie Black Gold.
It's pathetic how little they pay the coffee farmers for those premium coffee beans. They can't even send their kids to school.
I guess some people don't expect dealership employees to send their kids to school, either.
I have to double over on that one. I'm still laughing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Dealers are free to go to a fixed price model, such as places like Fitzmall have.
"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."
I heard of some large auto group somewhere that has 1100 completed clunker deals done and they have been paid on three of them.
Obama has also ordered dealers not to require the buyers to promise to make up the $4500 credit if the federal govt. doesn't pay up.
NHTSA has decided to classify trucks with GVWR under 8,500 lbs. and curb weight over 6,000 lbs. as Category 3 trucks.
They will be adding a FAQ on this issue tonight, so it should be on cars.gov by tomorrow.
www.fueleconomy.gov
However, I do not beleive that my Suburban is "over" 6000lbs "Curb Weight".
Does anyone have any info? I have been going back and forth with these guys trying to get resolution. Does Cat3 mean no car, only $3500, but a "TRUCK"?
I have not been able to find out if those overflowing storage lots we saw pictures of last year are still full. I did ask a golf buddy that manages or dispatches for one of the largest motor carries specializing in the delivery of cars and light trucks. He says their business is booming. He has guys back at work that have been laid off since Christmas. So, I guess there is some new inventory being delivered. I would think for inventory sitting in storage, deliveries could probably start up within a week, at most 2 weeks even for those that have to be loaded onto rail and hauled to distribution centers then loaded onto trucks for final delivery. Those that have to be built before shipping could take a little longer. I saw where Ford, GM and Toyota are upping production some, but if this a short term buying spree and demand goes back down not sure if there is much long term benefit.
Heck, go to Brazil and you haggle on just about everything, even fruit.
I think the real difference, though, is the expectation that a customer can walk in and pay the dealer's cost for any car they want, even if said car is in short supply. Dealers don't work for free, they have to try to make a profit the few chances they get.
You had an actual Mulroney label from a new car in your hand? The real sticker that is put their as a requirement from gov't on every new car and cannot be removed till it is sold.
No one leaves with the window sticker of a new car unless they bought that car.
You sure the car on the floor and the car you had priced out before were the same car?
According to Edmunds you can price out a Accent above 17,000 MSRP.
link title
The small used car lots are suffering since a lot of nice cars they would have been happy to have on their lots are now being distroyed.
This is not Brazil.
I hope your intent is not to attempt to perpetuate the mythology that the invoice prices, available here and many other places, represent actual dealer cost.
I do agree that one should expect the market price to rise when demand is high compared to supply. Dealers are even free to demand over sticker price, if buyers don't like the price that a dealer is offering, they should just go eleswhere (or more conveniently just email some other dealers), not whine that it is unfair or whatever. By the same token car salesman should stop their perpetual whining about buyers "forcing" them to sell cars at little or no supposed "profit". It is not the buyer's responsibility to ensure that prices are high enough to provide you with what you feel is an adequate commission.
When I bought my first Ody it was in the days when you couldn't touch one for less than sticker but that was what I wanted. I had a few choices - buy used, which I declined because the used ones were going for as much as the new ones because they could be delivered immediately; pay over MSRP, another declined option because I plain don't believe in doing such a thing. Others might do so and they will have no complaint from me but I won't do it - or more specifically nothing has tempted me to do it. I settled on option three which was one of several dealers who would take a deposit to sell you one at MSRP but you ware on a waiting line. Turned out this dealer had another location and I ended up with a much shorter wait than quoted so I was happy.
The folks that are preaching wait until the clunkers program is over and teh prices will drop back down are correct.
Even if the marketer/carmaker has created buzz about demand that DOES NOT EXIST? Remember the Acura TL of late 2006 (2007) models...... What a JOKE! Dealerships were expounding the rarity of the car while "lot queens" sat all summer getting sunburned while managers cried out "Hold the line!' Nice car but definitely NOT exclusive!
If you're selling dogs that nobody wants (or they want it at a price that is more in line with competition) but the manufacturer is in another universe with their "take" on marketing.... suffer the little dealerships. The latest "false buzz" is Minii's..... Good luck - nobody cares!
Cash for Clunkers has created false demand with hype. The first (factual, just tune into your local news) reports are coming out that the dealerships are....... waiting for the money. They have obviously never dealt with the Federal Government before. They're in for a rude surprise.
My little "Area 51" that I'm not suppose to talk about is MASSIVE inventory that is hidden from public view and warehoused.... If the public only knew!!!!!
The Feds changed the rules that the car doesn't have to be on the lot anymore...
As long as its already on the "production line", it can be used for C4C.
Seems to me the supply/demand issue should be null at this point.
Is it that the dealers are still trying to hide this fact, so they can claim short supply, and kick up the prices?
Or is it that even the "on production line" vehicles are already sold as well?
Can't the various car manufacturers just allocate the VINs ahead of time for the "soon to be built" vehicles?
Yep, anyone who does not have a clunker should sit on the sidelines and wait if at all possible, IMO. That is especially true if they are looking to buy something that has been popular amngst the clunker dumpers.
That would work for me, would it work for You?
Over all, oddly enough, he still seems to support the program.
I've seen variations on this idea over the years, and it seems to me to have merit. I'd like to see some objective research done on this to prove or disprove it. The problem is I don't know where the money would come from; that is, who would stand to gain by it, to justify the expenditure?
A related topic on "News & Views" is "Go Green By Driving It 'Til the Wheels Fall Off." Take a look, and see what you think of the comments.
A sound principle, in theory. But basic economics suggests that most people will reduce the money they are willing to invest in maintenance as the vehicle depreciates. Thus, at some point the vehicle may become an ill-maintained "gross polluter" while still in the hands of the original owner, or it may be sold to someone who does not care that certain features no longer work as designed--and that new owner will not have the money to continue to maintain the car properly.
Admittedly right now if they said 'we'll give you $4,500 for the Accord" I'd probably decline since I could get that for it by selling it and it's still got life in it. Just a thought.
They know they'll get their money and I doubt this is the only situation where dealers have to wait a few weeks or a month for someone to pay a bill.
link:
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=205863,00.html
Also what everyone keeps ignoring is that most manufactures make the dealership wait a month before their get their rebate money anyway.
Now if there is still a big bottleneck on getting deals processed at the end of august when the program has been live for a month we will hear a lot more complaining.
Aug 19 02:00 PM US/Eastern
By DAN STRUMPF
AP Auto Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - Hundreds of auto dealers in the New York area have withdrawn from the government's Cash for Clunkers program, citing delays in getting reimbursed by the government, a dealership group said Wednesday.
The Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association, which represents dealerships in the New York metro area, said about half its 425 members have left the program because they cannot afford to offer more rebates. They're also worried about getting repaid.
Many dealers have said they are worried they won't get repaid at all, while others have waited so long to get reimbursed they don't have the cash to fund any more rebates, Schienberg said.
"The program is a great program in the sense that it's creating a lot of floor traffic that a lot of dealers haven't seen in a long time," he said.
"But it's in the hands of this enormous bureaucracy and regulatory agency," he added. "If they don't get out of their own way, this program is going to be a huge failure."
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A63RC81&show_article=1
Says who?? That is kind of like the chicken and egg deal. Nobody knows who started this mess.
It was started the first time a seller and a buyer agreed to it. There is no mystery here. Two people found an arrangement that benefitted both parties and the rest is history.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
That’s irrelevant. They agreed and a sale was made. There's nothing more to it.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
This undated booking photo provided by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office shows Timothy M. Kissida. Kissida, 23, who is accused of trading in his BMW using the Cash for Clunkers program to get rid of it after a fatal hit-and-run crash, is due in a Phoenix court Thursday, Aug. 20, 2009. Prosecutors have charged him with leaving the scene of a fatal injury accident and tampering with evidence.
(AP Photo/Maricopa County Sheriff's Office
Tomorrow any dealer can end it by following the model of Fitzmall and others and just saying "no" to any offers other than their set price.
"As Cash for Clunkers enters its fourth week, Edmunds.com, a Web site for car buyers and sellers, reports the number of people taking advantage of the program appears to be on the decline.
"Now that there is plenty of money in the program and the most eager shoppers have already participated, the sense of urgency is gone, and the pace of intent decline is accelerating," said Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl. "Inventories are getting lean and prices are climbing, giving consumers reasons to sit back."
Edmunds.com concluded that sales activity last week was down 15 percent from the peak in July."
How I wish I could divulge the dealer’s name. However, I think this is not limited to this dealership as the usual ads highlighting the benefits for the CARS program last weekend in the L.A. Times were toned down. Likewise, I called several dealerships and their usual first question was whether I had a clunker. I would just hang up the phone because I knew what was coming. Of course they have all the right to give discounts or not. Don’t these dealers realize that these CARS recipients were the ones that brought them back to life? Now they want to screw the goose that lays the golden eggs. If this is not greed I don’t know what you can call it.
Is there a way we can get the truth out there and ask those planning to buy a new car to postpone doing so for a month or so and put these dealers back to where they were a month ago?
I can see the dealers not giving much of a discount as the govt. is slow in giving them the C4C money, so that would affect the price, but not by much.
Also, I see no reason why you cannot disclose the dealers name.
The gas mileage provision was just part of a compromise to get experimentalists to vote for it.
Its called a compromise that is how legislation gets passed.