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Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?

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Comments

  • freeyellow2000freeyellow2000 Member Posts: 6
    I guess the major auto makers are going to cancel the overtime shift as they no need for the cars anymore. If only if they government allow the people to submit all that info online or use the MAIL IN REBATE system. This would prevent dealership from overcharging there customers. This time for stealership to charge more since they can cuz people will be flocking to the dealer not that the end is very near.

    Turn in a eligible car with all the required paperwork at let say at a station and they once it approved, drive it to a designated junk yard and get a voucher that can be used in the next 2-3 months.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    The NADA begged them to end it. I don't understand that but that's what happened.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    Thousands of Used Car Dealerships wanted C4C ended also.

    The fat lady sang today. :mad:

    There should have been 2 more weeks left in this thing. Labor Day was the targeted closure date. Oh well, at least they'll have an extra $1 billion to give Goldman-Sachs for year end bonuses! :(
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    ...and shortly thereafter all the dealer whining about delays, etc. will change to "why'd they shut it down early, now we are selling no cars".

    ...not from me....

    less then 15% of my business in August has been C4C.
  • dkvndkvn Member Posts: 14
    We negotiated a scrap value with the junk man up front. $200 for trucks, $150 for cars, we keep $50 and give the balance to the customer.

    Will you refund it to the customers who have taken the new cars without getting it?
    When I asked the dealer, they said the junkyard only give them $50 and denied giving me any, so it wasn't in my contract
  • joegiantjoegiant Member Posts: 90
    Exactly! "At least they'll have an extra billion to give Goldman-Sachs for year end bonuses!" I've been thinking the same thing about the shortness (despite the HUGE success) of this program. The MIDDLE CLASS MADE OUT LIKE BANDITS...for a whole month. Wow. That NEVER should have happened by the clowns at the top but it did for reasons I bet they can't even explain. The ruling elites that have been screwing us (the middle class) for soooooooo long reeeeeally don't like letting crumbs fall from THEIR table (the gov't. coffers). But in this gov't give-away Cash for Clunkers goldrush we serfs didn't wait around for the crumbs to hit the floor but rather we jumped up on the table and took the food right off their plates! Stop! Cease! This must not continue! Shut the door NOW!!!

    As you say, the Fat Lady sang today. Gift ends Monday. Back to business as usual.
  • act25act25 Member Posts: 1
    There has been a nasty rumor going around that the cash for klunker credit
    will have to be declared on your federal tax return. Someone asked me this and
    I said I have not heard that. Can anyone definitely clear up this question. Is the credit a taxable item?
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Is the credit subject to being taxed as income to the consumers that participate in the program?

    NO. The CARS Act expressly provides that the credit is not income for the consumer.


    --direct quote from the program's website at www.cars.gov
  • queenlqueenl Member Posts: 5
    Wow I'm sorry to hear that. That seems so unfair. I can imagine how stressful that is. Was there an additional contract that you signed that stated that? I did go home and review my contract. It has nothing in it regarding cash for clunkers. The only contingency was based on loan approval. It also says that no other contract supercedes this one, and that only the terms on this contract are binding. I did read that some dealers were having people sign additional paperwork though. I guess that is what happened in your case. Have you called the CARS program to verify this and to seek their advice on any other options? Please keep us posted.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    NADA thinks the money is used up, that's why they wanted to end it according to news reports.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Will dealers get stuck with any clunkers they have already taken in? Will they be able to sell them to the public if they do not get reimbursed for them? When does the sodium silicate get added to the engines?

    I have been looking, unsuccessfully, for a used v-8 pickup just to tow my boat to the ramp and the occasional trip to the dump and lumberyard - it would get less than 1000 miles per year. The local dealer has at least a dozen trucks mid to late 90's in fine, even rust-free, condition that would work for me - all labelled "cash for clunkers" on their windshields. What a waste. Is there any hope that they might not get paid for one & they might be able to put it up for sale?

    BTW, many of the "clunker" trucks I saw should have been worth 3500 or more in trade without any clunker program.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Can't hurt to ask.

    Keep in mind the value of those is low, so there may be a lot of other things wrong with them.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    We already did, the first 20 or so we did we were not clear on the scrap value thing
  • cars4charitiescars4charities Member Posts: 1
    Cash for clunkers is increasing new car sales, but it's at the expensive of used car dealers, auto mechanics, auto parts stores and car donation charities.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Next week Edmunds.com will be approaching NHTSA on behalf of specific consumers whose clunkers applications were rejected for reasons outside the spirit of the qualifications. For example, if anyone had a lapse in insurance for just a few days during the course of the past year, or traded in their clunker before the mileage change was announced, or was otherwise surprised by a rejection and is now struggling with their dealer to determine how to resolve their situation. If you have a story to share, please submit it to pr@edmunds.com at your earliest opportunity. We'll do our best to help right the wrongs.
    Thanks for your consideration.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    wrong car clunked? :confuse:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Nah I doubt it.

    Scoville Hill is about five to ten minutes from my house too. I probably could have heard the sirens if I was home.
  • xmechxmech Member Posts: 90
    So I C4C'ed my 2000 6 cyl Grand Cherokee for a 2010 Ford Fusion Se, I-4 auto. I got $3500, as it stated when I entered it in the gov't site. So now, my sister-in-law is at Toyota, looking at trading in her 98 Cherokee 6 cyl for either a 4 cyl RAV4 or 4 cyl Venza. They both get lower mileage than my Fusion, and the mileage difference between the trade-in vs the new car is the same or worse than my transaction, but she will get $4,500!

    So what's the difference? I thought the cutoff was a 10mpg better new car to get to $4,500? :cry:
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    The Venza and RAV4 are considered Category 1 trucks. When you trade a truck for another truck, the mileage improvement doesn't have to be as large.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Actually, I think all that matters is the category of the new vehicle. So even if it were a car being traded for a "truck", the lower mpg improvement criteria would apply.
  • gracenumber2gracenumber2 Member Posts: 19
    I think I love joe0622,
    MY DEALER wasn't clear either and HAS not STILL responded to me about refund of net scrap value, in fact I am still waiting for the refund of sales tax they should not have charged(GA). The FI guy told me on 8/02/09 that my deal HAD been approved and they would send me a check for the overcharge and maybe net scrap value AFTER they received the rebate from the Gov. I am thinking they should have the Gov funds by now as it has been 15 bus days since then. So still waiting for the 465 dollars.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    BTW, many of the "clunker" trucks I saw should have been worth 3500 or more in trade without any clunker program.

    There is no doubt in my mind that many of the so called clunker PU trucks would bring $3500 to $4500 on the private market. Most people are just to lazy to advertise and sell them privately. If the dealer has already marked up the title as clunker. It would be tough to sell the vehicle. They could be nailed by the Feds. If a lot of them end up not being reimbursed you may get a good deal on one.
  • fastsvofastsvo Member Posts: 36
    Yup 3 dealers who are scared about not getting paid under the CFC has denied selling me the car. Now, my situation is rather unique because I have power of attorney rights on the vehicle and wish to use it for the purchase of the new car. All names remain the same from the existing title/registration to the new car being purchased. I have in hand a notarized and fingerprinted document that give me the general power of attorney to act on behalf of this individual.

    I called the NHTSA this morning and they were adamant that the dealer has to accept the sale and cannot refuse it based on this and mentioned they can also get fined.

    Are these dealers not taking any training courses on business law and how to interpret the law?

    Boy are they dumb.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I hope you got the denial on tape or written copy. Otherwise they will just deny you were ever in their dealership. If a few 1000 dealers get fined $15,000 for violating the letter of the C4C law we will get back some of that $3 billion. There have been cases of not giving the new car to the customer. Not giving the scrap value. Refusing to give the factory rebate on a C4C deal. All violations the way I read the law. Edmund's is interested in just such cases. Be sure and give them all your documentation.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    The specifics of the power of attorney might spook these guys. Frankly, I wouldn't blame them, considering the relatively minor problems that have caused deals to be rejected for reimbursement.
  • irma2irma2 Member Posts: 13
    I traded in a Quest last Sunday under Cash for Clunkers. No problems other than finding one for sale.
  • murphcoairmurphcoair Member Posts: 8
    They denied my C4C on my 1997 F250 4WD 5.8L V8.
    If your around Long Island NY its for sale.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    that's one of those from before the 'mod' motor era.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    "the dealer has to accept the sale"

    This is false.. Dealers do not have to accept the sale.
    I am not aware of any power of attorney exclusions in CFC.

    "Are these dealers not taking any training courses on business law and how to interpret the law?"
    Are they required to? Most dealers probably retain attorneys to do this.

    "Boy are they dumb."
    You have been to three dealers with no luck. The dealers do not want to chance your situation. They are just making a smart buisness decision is all.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    "They denied my C4C on my 1997 F250 4WD 5.8L V8.
    If your around Long Island NY its for sale."

    Hey murphcoair - thanks for the offer but I'm about 275-300 miles south of you in southern MD - otherwise I'd be interested. Anybody in MD with one that was denied?

    I'm going to check out a local 2000 F150 in the morning with 200K miles offered at $1500 but seller warned that tranny slips when hot. Hmmm....
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Person tells cnnmoney
    The sales tax was another miniscule $1855
    The '00 Isuzu Trooper got 15 mpg that was traded for it.

    I was contemplating a 2.4 liter gas powered Malibu that is half that TDI price after C4C. It takes 4 decades to consume a car's total sale price in mpg differential at the 132 gallon per year savings of 38 mpg vs 28 mpg for 14000 miles.
  • stove1stove1 Member Posts: 53
    Does your state even allow power of attorney car buying ? Sounds like Pandora's Box. Questions can be raised who the car is really for, a straw purchase ? Who is ultimately responsible if car is liable for an accident, used in crime ?

    I read somewhere some states make exception for GI on active duty overseas. That's about it.
  • jjb924jjb924 Member Posts: 1
    I signed on a 2009 Sentra on Monday...Dealer told me it should take a week but probably less until I can get my car. I called today asking when I would get my car, they said it depends on the government...pretty much had no direct answer for me. I asked them if they were waiting for the money from the government and they said no, they were just waiting for the paperwork to be accepted. I told them that I was aware that the C4C program doesn't allow them to do this, but they just shrugged it off and said that they didn't know of anyone who was giving people their cars right away. What can I do as a consumer? I'm getting nervous just because my 97 Jeep Cherokee is on its last leg, and I'm moving out of state on Weds, and really don't want to have to drive back the 7 hours to pick up my car....thanks for your help!!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,202
    "...I'm going to check out a local 2000 F-150 in the morning with 200K miles offered for $1500..."

    You could consider my 1985 F-150 with "slightly more" than 200K miles. In addition to the classic lines of trucks of the 80s it has features such as "flow thru ventilation" (rust holes) and a "owner accessible" carburetor fuel system.

    It also has "independent suspension" which means that when driving down the road the truck pretty much goes where it wants to. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Maybe tell them you understand why they want to wait and it would be okay with you, despite the rules not allowing it, if you were not moving out of town on wednesday, but since you are you really need them to give you the car by Tuesday or you will feel you have no choice but to file a complaint (which means a potential $15,000 fine for them). The deadline for submittals is Monday, so they certainly will have submitted it by then and will have no legal excuse for not giving you the car.

    Also you should not be driving the clunker, what if it dies tomorrow? They should at least give you a free loaner until they do give you the new car.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The C4C rules state the dealer must take possession of the clunker before submitting the paper work. The title has to be signed over. You are right he should not be driving the clunker. The rules also state they have to give the customer the new car if it is in stock. The dealer should be reported to the NHTSA and Edmund's.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    If the goal is to get the car rather than vegeance, I just think it might be more productive to try being nice and reasonable first in the hope that the dealer will also be reasonable, rather than going nuclear on the rules violation right away.

    Other rules say I should drive the speed limit, but I don't. Every minor infraction of every rule does not need to be reported and punished.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Other rules say I should drive the speed limit, but I don't. Every minor infraction of every rule does not need to be reported and punished.

    True. However, rules exist to protect people from each other. This appears to be a case where the dealer is attempting to transfer risk to the customer in violation of those rules. I see nothing wrong with reminding the dealer of this, and using it as leverage to move the deal forward.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree, diplomacy is always the first step. It sounds like he tried that and was blown off by the dealer. It is obvious the dealer is not following the rules he signed on to abide by. That being taking the clunker when the deal is signed and giving the customer their new car. The risk becomes the dealers when they agree to get in on the government gravy train.
  • shopmavenvashopmavenva Member Posts: 5
    www.cars.gov the official CFC website FAQ says the POA is valid:
    I am in the military and am currently deployed on active duty abroad. I have an eligible trade-in vehicle and would like to participate in the CARS program and buy a new vehicle. I have executed a power of attorney that allows another individual to sign all required documents on my behalf. May I participate?

    YES. Note: A copy of the Power of Attorney must be brought to the dealership and included as a Miscellaneous attachment by the dealer in the CARS application for reimbursement.

    back to top
  • shopmavenvashopmavenva Member Posts: 5
    aviboy97: less than 15% of my business in August has be CFC

    Then that is YOUR FAULT! The ball is entirely in the dealer's court but it requires the dealer to keep their greed in check -- almost impossible at many dealers.

    This program should have been run like a Costco or Credit Union Buying program where a third party "approves" the purchase price of the new car and that is then reduced by the rebate required under the CFC program.

    Regarding the delays -- dealers have brought these issues on themselves. We just came from a Nissan Dealer that upped the price of the car (Altima S) then took the CFC and factory rebate off that so the same car that would have been out the door in July for $18,560 without a trade-in is now $19,560 with the CFC rebate. Whoo whee, that's a stinker! Do the math -- the dealer more than DOUBLED his profit margin on the car thanks to CFC. So, dealers not consumers got the benefit of this goverment sponsored windfall. And, you missed out. Brilliant!
  • shopmavenvashopmavenva Member Posts: 5
    Call your local TV station consumer affairs reporter and ask them to GO down to the dealer with your paperwork in hand. That will make for an entertaining little spot on the nightly news and likely, YouTube. Also, it's the last thing the dealer wants to see in his waiting room -- a TV camera. And, what do you have to loose? You are moving 700 miles away next week. Make it worth the aggravation you invested in this deal! Plus, what better documentation for the claim you will file with the gov if they don't pony up your car immediately. And, don't you think Nissan will be forced to chatise the dealer publicly when the Consumer Affairs reporter calls for a quote? Have some fun with this!
  • shopmavenvashopmavenva Member Posts: 5
    It's a timing issue -- all those new car dealers who were shut out of the market by the Chrysler and GM bankruptcies are now used car dealers and ineligible to participate. So, NADA is likely dealing with a huge membership backlash from those dealers plus the traditional used car dealers. As for the charity donations -- most of these cars would not be welcome anyway -- if you are trading a clunker that normally has a trade-in value of $5k or more, it's likely it isn't working well or you'd have gone another route. So, probably a lot of cars needing major repairs are sitting there waiting for the silicon solution to be dumped in the gas tank. (You can bet it won't go in those engines until AFTER the dealer gets his rebate check -- no matter what the certificate says that he submits. If the gov was smart, they would require the dealer to turn in the engine vin plate with each certificate.)

    Also, the resale market for seats, stereos, tires and other parts has just gotten a giant influx of inventory.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    So in order to keep the used car dealers happy we will be introducing a new C4C program - Cash for Crap. For a yet undecided subsidy you can bring your hunk of junk and trade it in on a slightly better hunk of junk.

    I shouldn't be giving them ideas.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • shopmavenvashopmavenva Member Posts: 5
    Technically, the banks own the cars because they are almost all "floor-planned," that is financed on short-term note of less than one year. Of course, the value financed is far less than the street value, so the dealer gets immediate cash flow from every purchase.

    The dealer is playing a numbers game -- if he can pay off the note on the floor-planned car early, he can swap another car into the same note and pay less overall for holding the two cars on the lot than if he did it sequentially. (This is one reason dealers want to get older models off the lot as the new model year comes in and also why you can get a better deal at month end -- most floor plan payments are due on the 10th of the month.)

    That means what you pay on your CFC car lets him pull it off the floor plan, plus gives him a small percentage of the profit. He's waiting for the rest of his profit from the gov rebate and that's when he'll pay his sales commissions, too. So, it's in the salesmans best interest to jack the price on you, not just because the margin and commission are larger but because there's money to pay his commission or percentage of the commission sooner.

    BTW Kristi, the days of dealers living in modest homes in suburban developments are long gone -- most dealers live in big, beautiful mansions because they make PLENTY of profit on the cars they sell. So, don't go boohooing here.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Then that is YOUR FAULT! The ball is entirely in the dealer's court but it requires the dealer to keep their greed in check -- almost impossible at many dealers.

    C4C has only resulted in about 15% of our total business for August because that is all who walked through the door looking to take advantage of the program. You are new here. Please check your facts before you shoot off your mouth about how I run my business, because you are dead wrong.

    Regarding the delays -- dealers have brought these issues on themselves

    How is it my fault that the government promised payment within 10 days, and I am going on 4 weeks without payment?

    So, dealers not consumers got the benefit of this government sponsored windfall

    Everyone benefits. You get thousands for a car most likley worth nothing. Dealers make a couple extra sales. This is what the program was intended to do. Win win for everyone.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    BTW Kristi, the days of dealers living in modest homes in suburban developments are long gone -- most dealers live in big, beautiful mansions because they make PLENTY of profit on the cars they sell. So, don't go boohooing here.

    Where do you come up with this nonsense??? LOL!!!

    The average car salesman makes less then 50K per year. Get real.

    That means what you pay on your CFC car lets him pull it off the floor plan, plus gives him a small percentage of the profit. He's waiting for the rest of his profit from the gov rebate and that's when he'll pay his sales commissions, too. So, it's in the salesmans best interest to jack the price on you, not just because the margin and commission are larger but because there's money to pay his commission or percentage of the commission sooner.

    What?!?!? LOL!!!!

    Prices are higher on C4C transactions because of the added work needed to do a C4C deal. Add to that the general supply of new cars is very very slim. When product is in demand, the price goes up. Last I recall, this is America and this is how business is done.

    BTW, last time you went out for dinner, did you happen to see a price listed for fresh Lobster? Probably not. Did you see "market price"? Most likely. My point is people are paying market value for cars. It is not a buyers market right now.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    It is not a buyers market right now.

    True. But six weeks ago, before C4C, it was--and had been for the last eighteen months.

    The speed with which C4C ate up existing inventory caught a lot of folks off guard, and the resulting upward swing in real-world transaction price, while completely predictable, has caused many customers to cry "foul." Whether or not they are justified in their anger, this rapid swing will reinforce many negative images that customers have of the auto business.

    Beyond the predictable supply-demand swing, a few dealers have openly tried to game the system by using bait-and-switch tactics, misleading advertising, and other unethical practices which will make it worse for the whole industry.
  • kman0609kman0609 Member Posts: 3
    So BS Doc FEE dealer charge doesn't cover your extra work. If supply is slim then why don't you have a cross board pricing but when someone has a C4C transaction the price just went up.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    If supply is slim then why don't you have a cross board pricing but when someone has a C4C transaction the price just went up.

    You have to ask the question to the dealer who did that to you.

    I have never raised my prices one penny. I am just not as willing to discount as much as before because heavy discounting right now is not necessary to sell cars. There is a big big difference between raising prices and discounting.
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