Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?

ateixeira

I think what happened was this incentive turned a buyer's market, which has been that way for years, in to a short-term seller's market.

isell simply observed the effect of shocked consumers who had suddenly lost a key tool in negotiation - leverage.

mikefm58

but I shouldn't be charged more than the guy next to me because I have a clunker and he doesn't

Well not exactly as the dealers do have extensive paper work to submit as well as wait, God knows how long, to get the funds, so that is some extra cost to the dealer.

jeffyscott

I'm sure that's all covered by the extr $50 from the scrap.

mvs1

When I logged in and saw all the action on my post, it was again quite amusing.

You refer to this as "total lack of evidence", which you are spot on...

Facts are facts, they are what they are. Opinions are simply beliefs and may or may not be backed up with evidence. You can't prove my opinion wrong (It's my emotional view on the facts or lack their of), all you can do is try to move it to another opinion.

I provided an example of 1000 C4C deals closed all cash (which was an overestimate to favor BR's limited sample) and that accounted for .15% of all sales against 630,000 vehicles, not the 700,000 vehicles the program is roughly at. These samples don't change my opinion at all, not enough information here..

As an aside, I had dinner last night with a cousin who handled all the C4C paperwork, among other things at his employer. His dealership sold 64 vehicles under this program. He stated more than half were cash deals...

People express their opinion and also present factual information, you should relax a little.

jipster

Well not exactly as the dealers do have extensive paper work to submit as well as wait, God knows how long, to get the funds, so that is some extra cost to the dealer

Charging $1,500 (ie.) for paper work sounds a little extreme... unless you're billing at $750 an hour. :sick:

mikefm58

Charging $1,500 (ie.) for paper work sounds a little extreme... unless you're billing at $750 an hour

Where did I say anything about $1500, or even any dollar figure? :sick: I don't know why you would post something that I never said. :sick: If you've seen it elsewhere, then respond to that post. :sick:

sigsis72

off the thread but100chuck you are correct and every citizen who filed income tax in 2008 should've gotten x amount of shares in AIG for free and every other company that received bailout money. After all aren't we all owners in those companies now?

jipster

One guy pays MSRP for his clunker deal, another guy buys the same car at another dealership and gets the usual dealer discount... which is usually around $1,500. Got it?

gracenumber2

o Yes, I drove out that day with my car and each participant was very easy to work with, it is just that we BOTH missed that in Ga Sales tax was NOT to be applied to the rebate and we missed the net salvage value and did not deduct that.. So dealer owes me around 475 and they agree, but will only send my refund when they get paid rebate.

Now, if they send the refund, I will FULLY enjoy my new car and have confidence in the dealer. Basically a good deal.

BUT if I have to keep asking and even fight for the refund, well then - it taints my new car experience- Then will that make it harder for me to think positive of car dealers. You know less trusting.... And for me that will take the new car joy down a few levels..

joel0622

off the thread but100chuck you are correct and every citizen who filed income tax in 2008 should've gotten x amount of shares in AIG for free and every other company that received bailout money. After all aren't we all owners in those companies now?

Don't forget to check the mail for your GM and Chrysler shares also.

nortsr1

Well, in Florida the $599.00 or $499.00 "dealer fee" should cover that and a lot more!!!!

imidazol97

>So dealer owes me around 475 and they agree, but will only send my refund when they get paid rebate

I suspect they will return the refund. It's just that you shouldn't have to wait. It's Georgia sales tax which you are owed. In Ohio we can put in a claim for refund of sales tax on errors like that.

But I would give the dealership the room here.

jmonroe

I am not a supporter of Obama or his Administration but this plan worked. It did exactly what it was designed to do.

C'mon Joel, you gotta give credit where credit is do. If I were in the biz I'd think that guy was the greatest thing since sliced bread. What other president/politician/administration did as much for you or your biz as Obama did?

Now me, the taxpayer, who didn't get anything directly from that program other than MAYBE a better economy, which isn't anything to take lightly, should be the one saying what you said.

If I didn't know you better, I'd say you sound like the guys 'isell' refers to as being ungrateful or at least not satisfied with something that you wouldn't have otherwise gotten. :confuse:

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

I'm so excited, now that the public has gotten a taste of that free government cheese...er...rebate, it won't be long before the "New and Improved" C4C is announced.

Just think, now I know all the tricks the salesperson could pull. I'll bring the old grinding wheel and get the deal of a lifetime.

Yes sir, just think of the next 500 post argument we can get going here. It's going to be great!

isellhondas

These forums were dying until C4C came along.

Now what?

joel0622

I gave him his credit for the program. He and his administration came up with it and it worked.

Is 30+ days of business increase going to make me a Democrat/Obama fan????
Not in 1000 years.

joel0622

Maybe the Goverment will come along and bail us out. Pay us $50 per sales story told, and $10 for each reply it gets.

kdhspyder

Again he and the Dems did NOT come up with the program. The auto industry did.

The auto industry as far back as last February saw what Germany got when it implemented the original version and the auto industry said....'We'll have whatever they're having..'

But...there were a few small hurdles to get over, such as two of the biggest bankruptcies ever in American history. But the instant that GM exited from BK court....BLAM, C4C was a GO!!

Coincidence? There is no such thing in politics and business. This program was created, structured, negotiated and planned by Detroit, Torrance and the NADA from day one. They gave it to Congress to put it into force.

The President added the automatic signature to enact the law because his constituents wanted that law.

explorerx4

i'll reply often if you kick me back $5 for each reply.

explorerx4

so it ends up that the govt got rid of a bunch of inventory they were on the hook for. :surprise:

tidester

Again he and the Dems did NOT come up with the program. The auto industry did.

You have made that claim repeatedly. Do you have any facts to back that up beyond speculation? Just curious.

There is some evidence that environmentalists played a significant role in the development of the legislation. The UAW and American auto industry certainly supported it but that was essentially after the fact.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

imidazol97

>environmentalists played a significant role in the development of the legislation

If so, they didn't do a very good job. The cars they needed to get off the road were owned by people struggling to keep ends together and their cars are driven regularly out of necessity. Instead a number of cars owned by people not using them other than alternate cars occasionally were trading them in paying cash per some of the salesfolk here.

Also the people trading in larger vehicles should have been able to trade them for a high gas mileage smaller car if that was their wish. It would have saved more oil in the future.

jeffyscott

I think the Betty Sutton bill was the one the auto industry wanted.

Ms. Sutton's bill would provide buyers vouchers of $3,000 to $5,000 if they turn in cars that are eight years old or older and buy new cars that get at least 24 miles per gallon on the highway or trucks that get 27 mpg.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123853805152575391.html

(I think they must have reversed the car/truck mpg requirements)

jpb3

cash for junk cars, junk cars, cash for cars, cash for ugly cars, junk car removal

jpb3

Will Cash for Clunkers save the car market?

cash for junk cars, junk cars, cash for cars, cash for ugly cars, junk car removal

tidester

If so, they didn't do a very good job.

I wouldn't argue against that.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

mikefm58

which is usually around $1,500. Got it?

No, can you elaborate, I'm new around here.

imidazol97

Local dealers are still advertising Cash for Clunkers. It must have been successful enough they are using the words for their own clunker program rebate.

More power to them.

ambulatsolum

gagrice

The only cash you will see is what leaves your wallet when we ALL get our taxes raised to pay for all these goofy stimulus programs.

fintail

This one cost as much as our yearly money wasted on Israel - something that does nothing but cause problems for a good portion of the world. But few have the cojones to complain about that...

Taxes won't be raised for debts that will never be repaid...

gagrice

Right now the Feds are flying high with low interest on treasury bills and high speed money printing presses. When stagflation hits US and interest soars to double digits. We either pay the interest on the debt or go into default. The logical course is to tax what is left of the Middle class. Half the country pays little or nothing and the top 5% already pay the bulk. That means you and I get to move up into the 50% bracket like Canada & many countries in the EU. When interest on treasuries hit 17% as they did in the late 1970s we will be paying nearly $1.8 trillion per year interest on the current National debt. All this stimulus is doing is borrowing from the future to maintain our standard of living. A standard that many in the current government want to decimate as they believe it is causing GW.

Kirstie_H

Pay us $50 per sales story told, and $10 for each reply it gets.

Now that would be a REAL cash for clunkers program.

macfit

I did a cash for clunkers deal in Virginia. Traded an '88 F150 4x4 for a Honda Fit. I have two questions concerning the deal. After I completed the deal, I noticed on the official government CARS web site that the dealers are required to inform the customer of the estimated scrap vale of the vehicle and are allowed to keep $50 of this for "administrative expenses". The balance supposedly belongs to the customer. My dealer did not inform me of this. What are my rights according to law? Also, the CARS site says that the $3500 or $4500 may or may not be subject to state sales tax, depending on which state the deal was done in. The CARS site does not specify which states charge the tax. I was charged. Does anyone know for sure what the law in Virginia is?

iluvmysephia1

does BO buy in to the Al Gore GW mess of a nasty problem for all of us? :shades:

I remember asking you this before but the answer was swept away by a rush of hundreds of other more legitimate day-to-day concerns of this SE Arizona medico.

Kirstie_H

Not on-topic in this discussion, please.

isellhondas

Getting rid of the clunkers was not a cash generator at least not for us.

People get 3500-4500 for this junker but they still want more.

That is what I was talking about earlier.

imidazol97

We need another giveaway called Clunker9. All cars 9 years old and more can be traded for cars which have an average fuel economy at least 3 mpg more than the car being traded gets $5000 directly to the buyer in a rebate check to their mailbox. The dealer keeps the tradein.

isellhondas

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water....

Clunker 9!

fintail

They will manipulate all they can to avoid stagflation. It's a very possible outcome, but I am not holding my breath. I thought we'd be seeing some inflation by now - and it's not happening.

The top 5% own 95% of the wealth, and should be taxed accordingly. (ok, a little hyperbole, but not much)

I don't see the "current" government being any different from the past government...

jeffyscott

Yeah, it's "only" about 60-70%.
Just google "wealth of top 5%".

kdhspyder

I'm in VA..Chesapeake.

Yes you do have to pay the state sales tax of 3% on all rebates whether they're from the manufacturer or from the Feds. It's like a cash downpayment. If you reread your Buyer's Order the $3500 or $4500 was deducted from the bottom line after all the fees and taxes were added.

The C4C situation is exactly as if a Federal agent was standing outside the dealership when you drove up and handed you $4500 in cash then took your clunker away.

oldfarmer50

"...The C4C situation is exactly as if a Federal agent was standing outside the dealership..."

The dealer takes part, the government takes part, what next, homeless guys standing in your driveway asking for spare change? The whole program ends up being like a screamer ad where after reading the fine print you discover the real price.

I'm glad I kept my clunker.

imidazol97

>homeless guys standing in your driveway asking for spare change?

Actually your tax money and mine are helping "stimulate" the lives of Panhandlers in Dayton. I guess they didn't get the stimulus money they requested for studying prostitution...

...so they are using stimulus money to pay for apartments for panhandlers.
apartments

I'm still trying to figure out how paying stimulus money for rent money to a guy in New Jersey, who formed an LLC for the building he bought, stimulates Dayton Ohio's economy?????

gagrice

"They don't have to worry about me," Miniard said. "I got my TV and I have air conditioning. I can't remember the last time I had that."

Living the liberal dream. Just what the folks in DC like, warehousing votes. Nothing about stimulating the economy by creating a job for these homeless people. They should have a no work, no eat policy.

kdhspyder

Typical neo-con dream.. I've got mine...let the rest starve, sleep in the streets and live like 2nd class citizens. The adherents of the Reagan Solution based on trickle-down economics would ignore the losers and less fortunate of our society.

This is the real argument ( other than simple political intransigence ) about universal healthcare. I've got mine ( my own health plan )...because I worked for it - or was lucky. Those that don't have a health plan don't deserve any benefits. Let'em die in the streets.

Kirstie_H

Enough - really, ENOUGH. This discussion is intended for people who have questions about how C4C operated. There are some lingering questions.

This is the second time in as many days that I've posted a "not on-topic" message. Those who continue to ignore such messages will be less than pleased with the outcome. Thank you.

joel0622

The cash-for-clunkers program pushed Ford Motor Co.'s U.S. light-vehicle sales to the company's second-straight year-over-year increase in August while lessening sales declines for Chrysler Group and General Motors Co., analysts say.
Ford's August sales were expected to grow 34.4 percent, according to an average of five analysts' predictions gathered by Automotive News

grantnorris

On August 8 I agreed to purchase a new Nissan Murano in Pennsylvania and provided all paperwork for my '97 Explorer to qualify for the CARS program. I made a $500 deposit and got an invoice with a VIN number and $4500 trade-in credit. Delivery was promised on Aug 17. On 8/28 delivery was promised on 9/25, on 8/31 I was told that the car had be sold to someone else. Now the CARS program have ended the dealer is willing to sell me an equivalent Murano but without the $4500 trade in value for my Explorer. Can I enforce the original contract? How would I find out?

ateixeira

I would find another Nissan dealer. That one does not deserve your business.