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No...not unless you paid for the car and if you did pay for the car you may have to see an attorney.
"How would I find out?"
Get legal advise.
http://www.cars.gov/
Three dealers rejected my CFC because I had a legal and notarized general power of attorney on the clunker and were scared that this might be reason enough for a temp worker at the NHTSA to deny them of the $$ expected for their claim. Why would dealers loose confidence in this program and not want to sell me a car? Because the NHTSA did such a horrible job in paying back the dealers in a timely manner and thus dealers didn't want to take a possible hit on a CFC deal.
In the end, I still blame the dealerships for not having the education and understanding of how legal binding documents work and refusing to acknowledge the rules stated by the NHTSA (which expressively stated that power of attorney sales will be accepted). These guys might make a lot of money, but they lack education in contract and business law (besides ethics).
If any reporter and/or news agency would like to contact me about my story. Please feel free to email me at:
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I think you are wrong on both counts. If he put down a deposit on an invoice for a vehicle with the VIN recorded as he claims, and the dealer sells that car the consumer has been a victim of fraud. If it is under the C4C umbrella the NHTSA should be the overseer and prosecute.
It is unethical to tell someone a price over the phone and when you get to the store they claim otherwise. Difficult to prove. It sounds like he had a good deal cut and the dealer found a customer willing to pay more. It sure would not hurt to present his documentation to the NHTSA. I would do that before I spent money on an attorney.
What did it say? I mean what was the POA for?
Or the dealer could just be slimy and got a better price from a subsequent buyer and sold it out from underneath the OP. OMG..buyers do that every day when they're shopping.
Without any of us being involved we can only surmise from one side of the story.
But it's not fraud. Nothing was submitted to the Feds ( presumably ). It would have been fraud if the dealer submitted the deal to the Feds based on the OP's docs. Anyway believe whatever you wish. Have a bright day.
That has nothing to do with it. We, the dealers, can't control NHTSA.
You yourself noted that NHTSA wasn't paying dealers in a timely fashion.
Claims were being bounced for all kinds of reasons. If you as a dealer have thousands of dollars hanging out, you wouldn't want to take any chances either.
If NHTSA had done a better job of communicating and paying claims quicker,dealers would have had more confidence in the system.
They may have views different from yours but they are straight shooters.
However, the rest of your advice is good.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Thanks,
Chintan
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Just kidding, he gives sound advice.
Why target Toyota? Didn't they close the most C4C deals?
They should target the ones that were NOT able to seal the deals.
Just seems backwards. :sick:
I don't know that Toyota is being "targeted." Perhaps the reporter already has a lot of reports concerning Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan and so on and is only trying to make up for a relative dearth of Toyota reports. It's impossible to judge with the article not having been written yet.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Toyota is fixing to get a good dose of what it is like to be #1. They learned nothing from watching the road GM and Ford went down.
Maybe your reporter can check into this to.
A former Toyota attorney's lawsuit claiming the company withheld and destroyed evidence regarding rollover accidents has prompted a Texas vehicle safety attorney to prepare to refile 15 lawsuits against the automaker on Tuesday.
Dimitrios Biller worked as an attorney for Toyota Motor Corp. for four years until 2007, including representing the automaker in accident litigation.
They should target the ones that were NOT able to seal the deals
But guess who gained the most market share for the 7th month in a row.
I figure I am about 6 moths to a year from throwing a whole lof "I told you so's" around this joint.
The big gainer though was Subaru, though they had been doing well (one of a few up in 2009?) already. Might just be a case of right product, right timing?
I do have to say Joel that the Ford fleet is vastly better than what they had a few years ago, and with the stuff coming from Europe in the next few, you should be busy.
Amazing. All these years, the people that said the D3 just had to make better quality and desirable product to survive were right!
Doesn't hurt that the Camry and Accord are going (IMO) down the wrong path.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
For those in similar situation wanting more info. here goes:
I'm in mass. I signed my deal on AUG. 4 and the dealer told me on the phone that my rebate was #17 of 120 C4C deals they did
I was talking to a friend today about his C4C experience. His story stuck in my mind because he traded an old truck on a new Accord. So many people had been beating up Honda for nasty attitudes and the "MSRP ONLY" tricks that I asked him to tell me the whole story.
I think i mentioned before that he had gone to one Honda store and gotten a "take the color we have or forget it" attitude. He went to a second Honda store and they arrange to get the exact color he wanted with very friendly service.
Today I asked him if the second store charged him MSRP. He told me that they took $3,000 off sticker right off the bat and gave him the full $4500 he was entitled to. They also gave him $100 salvage value for his clunker. He of course bought the car.
So it seems that if you shopped around you could get a good deal.
Don't you love a happy ending?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
guess who gained the most market share for the 7th month in a row.
Subaru? They had a record month last month, and in a market that has tanked I think they may have roughly doubled their market share.
Ford's lineup had improved dramatically, though I'd like to see a current Focus. They'll be fine.
The report said that a $5.4 billion portion of the $10.5 billion owed by Chrysler is "highly unlikely" to be repaid, while full recovery of the $50 billion sunk into GM would require the company's stock to reach unprecedented heights.
No, Really??
Prediction: before the end of the year we have a government report that C4C wasn't all that great of an idea in light of displaced sales that are about to cause sales drops as the new model year vehicles don't sell as well as expected. But no doubt, some are going to be surprised when this happens.
I really think it would have done more good if they had smaller incentives and made it last a bit longer. It just didn't last nearly long enough.
Auto sales aren't static. If they were, there would be an extra 7,000,000 sales waiting to happen, as that's how far down we are from the peak of five years ago..
I'm not sure a lower amount for each Clunker would have worked. A lot of the cars traded, had a decent cash value ($1500-$2000), as they had to be running, continuously insured and continously registered... If it gets any lower, there isn't enough of a premium, ergo less incentive to trade.
Most dealers that sold C4C eligible cars had their best month in the last three years in August... Manufacturers cleared their stock of small cars, re-called laid off workers. 700,000 (mostly) fuel-efficient, low-polluting cars were put into service, with lower than average loan balances due to the large rebates.
All for less money than the government spends propping up ethanol in a year...
Yes.. we'll never see a return on the money given to GM and Chrysler (most likely).. But, I'd rather see the money go to taxpayers to help them buy one of their cars, than just write them another big check.
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At least anecdotally, a lot of people weren't planning to get rid of their old car, but the C4C was too good to pass up.
so maybe they would have done something in the future. 6 months? A year? And quite likely, they may have bought used (being frugal and all!)
But, I really have no idea how many of the people that did clunker deals were going to buy in sept.-oct. anyway, since those were the only real pull forwards.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I think it's safe to say that not all of the sales came at the expense of future sales although some of them certainly did. At this point, we just don't know how many. It's also safe to say that some of the sales came at the prior expense of people who delayed purchases knowing that the C4C program would benefit them by waiting a few months to take advantage of it.
It will be some time before we know one way or the other whether C4C was beneficial or harmful or a wash overall.
I'd rather see the money go to taxpayers to help them buy one of their cars, than just write them another big check.
But didn't the money come from the taxpayers in the first place? :confuse:
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
No the govt. just printed it. :sick: Did you see your taxes go up? I didn't.
LOL. That's the spirit. BTW, I've got this bridge in Brooklyn...
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I first test drove a 99 model. 10 years later I bought when I felt the timing was good and prices were low (due to the downturn).
If prices had stayed high I would simply have kept my 93.
So Mazda's incentive didn't pull it forward. It created a new sale that would otherwise not have happened.
In fact had prices not dropped, I would have bought another used Miata instead of a new one.
Low prices do create new sales, not just push them forward.
They started to run out of money after 3 weeks, so they very well could have dialed the amount down $750-$1,000 to get more clunkers off the road. The amount should have been figured so the program would last about 4-6 months... not the one month panic rush they had. You had a lot of melon heads trading in cars worth $4k-$5k to get the $3,500 rebate. :sick:
In MD that's 6%. About $1300 or so on mine.
So if I'm in the 28% tax bracket, that's a $364 tax credit for me.
Instead, what if....
They could even replace the states sales tax rule with a $500 deduction (for the +4mpg rule) or even a $1000 deduction (+10mpg).
That could last a very long time, a full year.
The problem is you don't get the immediate gratification, no free down payment to get you shopping. Just a thought.
750-1,000 bucks wouldn't have worked because it wouldn't have been enough. That is not even going to cover the taxes on a new car. I would have liked to see a lower bracket at the 2,500 dollar level for any fuel economy improvement or just for old cars but the 3,500-4,500 marks were fine.
Another reason for the 3,500-4,500 allowance is that, for the most part, banks aren't financing cars without 20% or so down. The average new car is 25,000 or so and so 3,500-4,500 covers that 20% down.
Thanks,
Chintan
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I don't see how they can just change the price like that.
I'd return the truck and cancel the deal.
Even if your clunker was not allowed, what could possibly justify their asking for the "salvage?" They would legally only have been allowed a $50 administrative fee for scrapping the clunker and that would have been the full extent of their loss.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Take the truck back, and tell them to hand over your clunker. And good luck filling in the hole the bored into the engine block!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Do your homework.