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VW Golf



  • mikusmikus Posts: 109
    Wow boy, did not notice the sarcasm? What I meant was that europeans do not usually use word "styling" for car designs. It is an american word that means just fancy useless features, like Grand Am cladding or PT Cruiser pseudo-retro appearance, or nostalgic New Bug, styled in californian VW studio. Pure european cars are designed, not styled. Big difference, huh?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    Golf (and Jetta too) styling is very box like. Not very impressive.
    Have to agree that the plastic body cladding on Pontiacs is useless.
    Oldsmobile Intrigue, Aurora, and Alero, are all very clean styled, American cars.
    Pure european cars are styled, just look at Porsches.
  • I just had to tell you that your analysis of TDI vs HX was excellent and extremely helpful. I currently drive a gas-powered Jetta and was considering a Golf TDI for the next car and had recommended it to a family member who drove and liked a rental TDI in Europe. But your analysis rendered a sudden change in our opinion. I also noticed someone else's posting re:carbon deposit buildup in the exhaust system that will add to cost of owning a TDI. I am still not inclined to go with a Honda but won't consider the TDI again unless the sulfer level drops in US fuels and VW goes for the chain instead of the timing belts. Thanks.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    The TDI's are very interesting cars and more fun to drive than I ever expected.
    Saving money is not a reason to own one though, because they have a higher initial cost, higher maintenance cost, and the mileage gained does not compensate for the cost of diesel.
    If you buy the TDI because you like VW and like the idea of diesel, you will be happy with the car.
    I have been trying to make economic sense out of the TDI for a couple of weeks because I really do want one. For me the cost factor is number one, the reliability is second and my emotional attachment to the car is third when buying a vehicle. I'll have to keep driving my 37 MPG Corolla until the factors change.

    Happy to be of assistance.
  • mikusmikus Posts: 109
    Go to for pretty good prices on Volkswagens. You can even see VINs. Even that VINs are not complete, one can see that all current Golfs GL and GLS are from Brazil (9), and GTI could be either from Brazil or from Germany (W). I wanted genuine german 5-door GLS, so now I have to think out GTI to get german car or try to find 2000 model. If only I could have Subaru Impreza Wagon with ABS...
    So Edmunds is wrong, telling people that GTIs are solely from Germany and Golfs from Mexico.
  • mpgmanmpgman Posts: 723
    You won't see a timing chain on the TDI because of the added noise. Good comparison of HX to TDI. Now why won't Honda put the HX engine in a four door? Coupes are supposed to be for the faster set...higher mileage per gallon belongs in the sedans. My digs at Civic compared to Golf are as follows:
    1. inferior seating comfort and leg room and no passenger seat height adjustment. Less useful driver height adjustment that is almost impossible to turn with door closed.
    2. inferior arm rest (looks like the one on the Accent) and little if any console storage...and that is on the EX.
    3. no folding outside mirrors.
    4. no available head curtains.
    5. no full size spare.
    6. no hatch.
    7. no 4 wheel discs and ABS only on EX.
    8. no rear head rests.
    9. smaller tires.
    10. no telescoping steering wheel.

    Other than that, the Civic is probably a better car that clobbers the Golf in mpg with a 4 cylinder automatic or stick...on regular fuel. (all Golf gassers other than the 2.0 use higher grade fuels).
  • Thanks for the the web site Mikus.
    The prices for the Golf GTi seem to be to good to be true (more then 500$ below invoice, dealer holdback ?)
    What is the catch ?
  • Hello all.
    I thinking of buying a VW GOLF,
    but I am unsure if I should get a CL or GL.
    I want a 2 door version though, I want it to be a little sporty.
    Unfortunately I don't have enough cash for a new one
    so I am geting a 1995.

    Can any one advise me on the GL or CL side of things... as in speed etc..?

  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    You wouldn't complain about the side cladding on Pontiacs if you owned one and saw a shopping cart barreling at it full speed ahead at the mall. You would be thankful for the money saved from the repair you would have had to make if not for that cladding.
  • I am considering buying a golf 1.8T LS. I live in Wisconsin and need to consider how a car handles in snow. I used to own an Integra GS which was a really fun car to drive, but was awful to drive in snow.

    Does anyone have any comments about how the Golf drives in the snow??
  • maxikmaxik Posts: 1
    Does anyone have the Golf 1.8 with the sport suspension? I am not sure if I should spend $200 on the sport one. I would like better cornering but I am concerned about ride quality. Can anyone comment on that? I don't seem to be able to find one to test drive.
    Thanks a lot.
  • mlinkmlink Posts: 7
    Other problems with the Civic

    You have to pay extra for A/C

    No remote entry

    No heated mirrors

    No storage space

    No adjustable seat for the driver/passenger and the one on the EX (driver only) is a joke.

    Milage on a manual TDI is 42/49

    Insurance was $600 more a year on the Honda (at
    least for me)

    Try driving a TDI with only 90 HP you'll be surprised, I know I was!

    A $300 chip in a TDI puts it on par with a 1.8T

    I only pay an extra $0.06 for diesel
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    OK. approx $150 for plug-in remote entry, $900 for A/C and you can "chip" the Civic too. Heated mirrors? Not absolutely necessary, but OK, a creature comfort. I completely agree about the adjustable seat knob on the Civic - just plain poor design. But, you will still never recoup the initial higher cost of the TDI over the Civic in fuel savings. I would buy a TDI in an instant if this were Europe where diesel is $4/gal. Again, in the US, it makes no sense. My 6th gen Civic HX by-the-way gets about the same mpg as TDI, about 42 urban, summer temps. As I've said before, I like the Golf in general more than the Civic, but the argument about fuel savings with a TDI vs. Civic HX is meaningless, when the cost (fuel only) difference might be $100/year in the TDI's favor.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I don't know how the car handles in the snow, because I have never driven one in the snow. I do know, however, that the 1.8T engine does include ASR, VW's version of traction control. I heard in the Jetta forum that they handle pretty well with the ASR in the snow though.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    Some additional information to consider.

    5 year ownership cost (stats by Intellichoice)

    Golf TDI GL Honda Civic HX
    Depreciation $7449 $4479
    Insurance $9061 $8440
    State Fees $718 $613
    Financing $3785 $3106
    Maintenance $1956 $860
    Repairs $991 $565

    The Golf comes standard with keyless entry and the Honda offers it as option.
    The Honda comes standard with power windows and power windows are not standard or optional on Golf.
    Power mirrors are standard on Honda and not standard or optional on Golf.
    Armrest is option on Golf and standard on Honda.

    Honda engine is considered to be "green" and friendly to environment. TDI can not even be sold new in New York and California due to it's pollution levels.

    Golf has better level of safety equipment with ABS standard and Side Curtain Airbags standard. These features are not available on Civic HX.

    Contrary to earlier post, the seat is adjustable on Civic.

    Luggage capacity is 13 cu ft in Civic and 18 in Golf. (earlier post said Civic had no storage)

    Civic uses gasoline which does not gel up in winter. (Golf does have heated mirrors though)

    Diesel cars are very rare, so are diesel mechanics, diesel parts, and diesel pumps.

    The TDI has a Turbo, which is expensive to repair if it ever breaks.
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    Well it's a little difficult to compare anticipated repair costs, even if compiled by intellichoice. The original discussion, I believe, was making a case for lower gas expenses due to the TDI's higher mpg as compared to a Civic HX. But lets compare a Golf GL to a Golf GL TDI.

    Golf GL TDI:$16,895
    Golf GL:$15,425
    Difference: $1470

    Average the mpgs for both cars (city/highway):
    Golf TDI= 42+49/2=45.5mpg
    Golf = 24+31/2=27.5mpg

    Now price of fuel:
    Diesel = 1.74
    Unleaded = 1.51

    Suppose an annual mileage of 15k mi.

    Fuel cost/yr:

    Golf TDI= $574
    Golf = $824

    Difference = $249/yr in favor of TDI
    Break-even point: $1470/$249 = 6 years
    This is without even considering the extra cost of maintaining a diesel. Add a few more years for that.
  • mpgmanmpgman Posts: 723
    Good analysis but you left some things out...

    TDI needs 60k timing belt change for stick and 40K for automatic vs 105K for gasser. Also costs more.

    TDI needs expensive 20k fuel system servicing with new water/fuel separator filter (first one free under warranty, all the rest at 20k intervals on you).

    Diesel generally costs more and will go up with new sulphur content standards

    TDI needs synthetic oil

    Enough said?
  • dbakalardbakalar Posts: 39
    A NIGHTMARE in dealing w/ the service department at my local VW dealership. I have a '99 Golf GLS, which has (up until now) had NO problems whatsoever. This past Saturday morning, my 'check engine' light came on. So, I parked it until I was able to get an appt. to take the car in for service. I've got 27000 miles on the car, and my warranty has expired (as I didn't opt to get an extended warranty since I had no problems whatsoever with my previous VW). Anyway, I brought the car in today to find that one of the O2 sensors, the coil pack, and the spark plugs and wires have gone bad. When askes what would have caused this, I was told that they didn't know, but it wasn't covered under warranty, as mine had expired. Certainly this isn't something that just popped up within the last 3000 miles, but I was told that it was beyond the warranty. PAY UP. So, I contacted VW North America who told me that they understood, and would consider a partial reimbursement as a "hardship case" as this is something that shouldn't have occurred in a vehicle that is this new. So... here I am waiting after spending $870 (half of which was LABOR COSTS) in getting my car repaired. I still love my car, it's a blast to drive, and it's damn cute, but my faith in VW is now being tested. I'll follow up with the results that I get from VW North America, but from what I've read, they sure do put up a fight. And to top it all off... after paying that amount for service, my car wasn't even WASHED? So much for customer service, huh?
  • breakerbreaker Posts: 8
    When you say the warranty is up, that's only the bumper to bumper part right? The engine is still covered for another 70,000 or so. The O2 sensors, as part of the emissions system HAVE to be covered if I'm not mistaken. I think its the law. My mass air flow sensor went at about 35K and VW replaced it on them, no fuss. Plugs and wires I wouldn't expect to be covered as these are maintainence items, but I also wouldn't expect them to go after only 27K in a new car. Plugs going bad is often related to being fouled by oil, not something to be expected at 27K. The service interval is what? 40K miles? Sounds like maybe a bait and switch type deal where the dealer knew he would end up covering the O2 sensor and installation, so he came up with something else to make a little money back.
  • hiwaysanityhiwaysanity Posts: 216
    for coil, O2 sensor and wires is, I believe, utter nonsense. Ask to see the book values for those repair items. Time to find a good independant. Dealers are famous for this kind of thing.
  • dbakalardbakalar Posts: 39
    Thanks for your feedback. I'm still waiting to hear back from VW North America about the situation. Unfortunately, I was in the position that I HAD to get my car fixed, and it ended up costing me. I agree... time to find a good independent mechanic! I knew as soon as I went to the dealer that I was going to get torn down. They always do it to ya.
  • nh7nh7 Posts: 2
    There've been a lot of talk in this forum about gas vs. diesel. There are 3 things that will likely be readily agreed upon.

    1)Diesels are long lived.
    While I would even consider buying a gas-powered anything that's over 75K miles, most diesel drivers consider 75K "just barely broken in". Diesel, because of their high torque, are also better at hauling and towing which is why the semis and BIG trucks are all diesel. I currently don't have a car (Honda Manna motorcycle) I'm looking into an older Golf diesel for ~$2000. It may have 100K already, but that will not likely diminish it from giving me 100K more.

    2)Gas is more easily accessible.
    It's hard to "swing a dead cat" w/o hitting a 7-11 or other QuikyMart here in Florida, but premium gas here is over $1.65. The "Flying J" just around the corner has diesel for only $1.41! My last "cage" was a minivan getting only 20mpg. My bike's got me hooked on seeing 3s and 4s in my division.

    3)This is all personal opinion and freedom of choice.
    Let us not try to convince the other and become enflamed when they don't see it our way. Y'all seem to be looking for a new car. I'm going for VERY used. You say potatoe; I say potato. (Sorry, Dan Quayle.) We EACH must decide how best to assess our present needs and predict our future needs in light of current finances and preferences. As the saying goes, "whatever floats your boat".

  • nh7nh7 Posts: 2
    I find this entire discussion very odd. If you're so concerned with reliability, depreciation and expenses, why get a new car since any odd problems will creep up. If you wait until it's "broken in": 40K (gas)- 80K (diesel) you'll know which vehicles are good and which are lemons. As they age, gas vehicles become more and more expensive, but diesels, with proper maintenance, keep going and going and going, on the same maintenance plan that started on Day 1. This could also be a lease vs. buy discussion.

    So, my finances look this way:
    Vehicle price: $2000 (cash)
    Finance charge: $0
    Depreciation: $0 (it's already depreciated about as low as it can go)
    Age: 5+ yrs
    Mileage: 60K+
    ~30,000 miles per year/45 mpg x $1.41/gal ...
    ~$941/yr (diesel)
    ~30,000 miles per year/27 mpg x $1.61/gal ...
    ~$1788/yr (gas)
    Maintenance Costs:
    Diesel ~$500/yr steady
    Gas ~$500/yr climbing (tendency)

  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    You might want to check the fuel prices again.

    Florida metro average price is:
    Diesel - $1.68/g
    Regular - $1.50/g
    Premium - $1.65/g

    Diesel is most expensive.

    National average is:
    Diesel - $1.56
    Regular - $1.45
    Premium - $1.60

    Remember, in most states the low diesel prices you see are for "Tax Exempt" trucks and if you are not tax exempt you pay more.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    Could you please detail in what way the maintenance costs of diesel are less than gasoline motor?

    In my investigation of costs the diesel tends to be not just a little, but a lot higher in maintenance cost. Some of the items that cost more on maintenance are timing belts, oil (requires synthetic), turbo, battery, bosch rotary injector pump, etc., etc..

    You are right that used is less expensive than new. Have you considered the effect on cost of parts that rarity of diesel contributes. There are not many new diesels, fewer used diesels, and even fewer parts cars.

    Something to think about.
  • dbakalardbakalar Posts: 39
    Okay, so I FINALLY got a reply from VW of America regarding the service done to my O2 sensor and coil pack last week. Of course, I was the one that called them, instead of sitting around waiting for them to call me. Nobody had called me in the past week! VW agreed to reimburse me for 50% of the repair costs. Pretty fair, I guess. If I had pressed the issue farther, I'm pretty sure I could have gotten a bit more out of them, but this satisfies me (pretty much). Now it's time to check out a good independent repair man. Does anyone out there in the Washington, DC area know of any good ones? The dealership has definitely seen the last of me.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Some of you may be interested in knowing that the

    VW Golf GTI
    was the most favored small coupe on's Most Wanted 2001 list.

    Happy Motoring! ;-)



    Hatchbacks Message Board

  • mikusmikus Posts: 109
    Subj! 2-door Honda is a coupe. Golf is a hatchback. And Eclipse, Celica, Focus, Integra, Mustang are hatchbacks too! Just 3-door hatchbacks, no more, no less.
  • osfan456osfan456 Posts: 8
    I'm considering what engine to put into a VW Golf. The turbo diesel is my first choice. It apparently gets good mileage. I've heard though, that they start having problems around 50,000 miles, and there are only 1 or 2 techs at VW dealerships that know how to repair the diesls. Are these engines reliable and do they perform well?
  • mpgmanmpgman Posts: 723
    Unless you plan to keep the car for 6 digit miles, forget the mpg advantage of the diesel and get a gas model. 2.0 if you want to use regular, pay less, not worry about a turbo, and don't care about laying rubber with an automatic. The 1.8T gets all the raves for performance, and mpg is about the same for both. The diesel seduces people with its performance, but you will be in for a rude awakening when you see the cost of routine maintenance, especially if you go the dealer. If you are the type that can do it all at home, that is a different story. Then too, you can get an Accord without all of the bells and whistles for less than the Golf.
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