seatrend--Thanks for sharing your experience. This is very helpful. Can you say a little more about you comments about commitment? Is the issue that you were ordering the car and your dealer wanted to make sure he wouldn't get "stuck" with a dreaded 5speed wagon (LOL) if you didn't accept it, as opposed to my situation where the car I'm interested in just happens to be coming to this dealer (I didn't order it), in which case I would expect my commitment would be a non-issue?
I bid $357 over TMV for an identical car "on the lot" last week and the dealer refused it (wanted $150 more). I'm trying to determine if perhaps TMV is several hundred off on this car at this time and maybe I need to up my offer (or just wait for the '03s and order one of those).
The only way to buy a car is to shop for what you want, then contact a broker. If you are a member of a credit union, which you should be, the credit union will have a broker that they can refer you to. The Broker looks all over for just what you want, color, stereo, etc. In my case, the car I wanted was one state away. I paid the broker the fee, $350.00 and shipping, I still beat the local dealer with $2000 under MSRP. The other alternative is to buy on the web, Costco, etc. Hope this helps
After 10 months of thinking and 3 months of shopping/haggling we finally bought a 2002 Passat GLX 4MO Wagon. Will take delivery in a couple of weeks. We have twin 15 month old girls, so keeping the interior protected is a concern. Does any one have any ideas on what we can put on the leather interior to help keep it protected from spills and small pieces of food so that clean-up is a little easier? My initial thought was a big ole blanket, but my wife will not like that. Also, feel like a I got a "fair" deal on the car $31,700 with clear bra and tinted windows. Price includes everything but taxes. Probably the last Silverstone Gray 4 Mo in our area as it just got "off the Boat" a few days ago. Thanks in advance for the help.
Congrats on your new car!!! What's the interior color? We've had ours for 2 +years now and our tan leather interior has held up well with a 1 and 5 year old (along with their friends)! I use Meguire's leather cleaner a couple times a year to keep the leather soft. When the kids' spills get on the seat, I just wipe it down with some soap and water. The biggest problem with the light color seats is the dark mark that develops from my belt! (I've heard of no good way to prevent this other than to avoid wearing a belt! )
The one thing that you need to invest in are some good quality all-weather floor mats -- either the OEM VW or weatherguard mats. Those have been a lifesaver on numerous occasions! Don't even bother with the stock mats -- just put them away for when you go to sell the car.
I'm strongly considering a Passat Wagon, but I was wondering if it would be big enough for my 2 dogs, which are Lab size. (I haven't see a Wagon up close. The dealers are out of inventory until August when the '03 arrives.)
Would the 2 dogs be able to fit in the very back cargo space when the rear sits are UP ?
Just wondering if any of you Passat Variant (wagon) owners checked out the Highlander before your VW purchase. If so, why the Variant over the Highlander ?
I was very close to ordering a Highlander when I saw a Variant on the road and decided to look into them. After doing a little bit of prelim investigation, I'm now leaning stronly toward the Variant. The reasons for the Variant off the top of my head are: - lower to the ground. Easier for my dogs to get in/out. Also, my petite wife doesn't like the SUV highness. - Styling. Kinda close, but I like the VW styling better. Even thou it's a wagon, it doesn't say "soccer mom", as much as the Highlander. It's a bit more sporty than the Highlander. - Features. I was comparing the GLX vs the Limited. I think the Variant offers more standard features for maybe slightly more money. I like memory seats, which aren't even offered on the Highlander.
Two issues that are in the Highlander's favor for me are reliability and dealer location. I have a '92 Toyota Camry now and had another Toyota in the past. They are and were incredibly reliable. The reliability issue is my one main concern with the VW. Also, there are a couple of Toyota dealers fairly nearby. I trust their service(for the most part). The VW dealers are not convenient and I don't know anything about them. (I live in the Boston area if you have any recommendations).
Stuart, I was in the same situation as you. I was contemplating both vehicles. You're going from sedan to a suv as I did My previous car was a 93 mazda 626 V6. I would suggest renting a Highlander for a few days just to make sure it feels right to you. I rented one for 3 days and drove it to work and a 150 mile round trip from SF bay area to the central valley. The reliability issue was something I considered but according to Consumers report the passat is better than average. the determining point was that that there were more Highlanders on the the lots than 2002 Passat variants. More flexibility with colors. From what I gather, VW has stopped production of the 2002s and will producing 2003. So you may be limited in terms of interior/exterior color combinations. I'm still weaning myself off the Passat brochure. Just kidding. But it was that close of a decision for me. Don't get me wrong, I have no regrets about getting the Highlander. Hope this helps. Feel free to e-mail me if you other questions. Barry
I'd like to be seriously interested in a Passat wagon, 1.8 liter turbo and manual transmssion. The major worry for me is this: I do about 21,000 mi/year, two thirds of it city driving. Lots of stop-start, lots of short trips, all at 5,000 ft. above sea level. Is this asking for trouble from the turbocharger, as I have been advised by several people? I intend to keep the car as long as possible - into the 150,000 mi. range.
If you drive it hard wait a few seconds before turning the key off, otherwise there shouldn't be any problems. A turbo may seem like an additional complexity to an engine, but no more so than 5 valves per cyl, Variable Valve timing etc. Turbos have been around for a long time - especially in large diesel trucks.
My logic is that a turbo is a lot simpler than the engine itself. If the engine can last for hundreds of thousands of miles, why can't the turbo?
I've never owned a turbo, so my questions are fairly uninformed. I guess the concern that was expressed to me had to do with heat build-up in the turbocharger (especially bearings?) with the sort of usage that I described.
We own a Passat GLX 4 motion wagon and a Lexus RX300. Not exactly the comparison you wanted but pretty close (Highlander is almost exactly the same as RX). I would add to your comparison: RX has less cargo room at the back but has more passenger space, especially the back seat with flat floor and bench style seat (3 adults are fine). RX has softer more cushiony ride, Passat is stiffer and sportier. RX has a lot of body roll in turns, Passat has only minimal body roll. RX has a terrible turning radius (making it harder to park), Passat is much better. Passat (4 motion) has slightly better mpg but requires premium gas, RX is fine with regular or mid grade.
izabelajohn: the passat 4Motion (V6) does not require premium gas. It is recommended for maximum performance but not necessary. On the other hand, depending on where you live and how much you drive, the additional cost per year may be negligible.
pjm6: a turbo actually excels at high altitude. As opposed to a normally aspirated engine, it does not lose power at high altitudes. However, if you do a lot of driving and can live with a smaller car, perhaps the Jetta TDI wagon (~50mpg) is worth considering? At any rate, turbos are very reliable these days, as long as you let the oil warm up before you punch the gas all the way. Even a lot of start-stops may not be a problem (depending on the intervals) since the oil stays warm for quite some time. While a cooling-down period is no longer necessary given modern turbo designs, you may still want to drive a bit on the reasonable side half a minute or so before you turn off the engine. And always use good synthetic oil.
stuartc: the Passat's cargo space is quite good. Perhaps you can bring your dogs to the dealer? As far as handling is concerned, there is absolute no comparison with the Highlander (or Camry). Test-drive one, you will be surprised!
If you drive the car hard and shut it down right away, and do this many times a day it would not be the greatest thing for a turbo. It may still last a long time, but not as long as it could. If you drive reasonably it shouldn't be a problem.
To be honest, given the amount of miles you drive, have you considered a Jetta wagon with the TDI engine. You can average 45-50 mpg (over 55 if you don't drive too fast on the freeway). It will have a little less room in the rear seat, but does have almost as much luggage space.
The TDI is also turbocharged, but it has so much low end torque that you never really have to rev it to hard, so it should be great for zipping around the city, and it's turbo will not be as stressed. It is also shorter so it would be easier to park in the city.
Remember too that non turbo engines can loose power at high altitudes, but turbo engines don't.
We picked a '02 GLX V6 Variant over a Highlander for the following:
1.) Comfort/Ride-Passat was fun an crisper, Highlander was sedate.
2.) Features-Compare features (at least in the GLX) and the Highlander is more expensive.
3.) Exterior Design-We preffered the Audi-ish design of the Passat. We thought the Highlander looked like a mini-van if you squinted.
4.) Cargo-The Passat has a ton on a level floor, I think the Highlander's seats don't fold perfectly flat.
5.) Seats-I drive a lot and the cockpit is important. I am tired of feeling like a cheese-doodle after a long ride. The ergonomics of the Passats Seat beats the Highlander's seats for me (I'm 6' 2"). 8 postion driver memory AND 8 position passenger seats...WOW!
6.) Highway Driving-The Passat is an Auto-Bahn car, the Highlander is a Camry Based car. The Passat coasts at Highway Speeds!
A lot of factors changed my decision from a Camry to a Passat. I loved the Passat, but I felt that Toyota would be more reliable. I would rather have fallen in love and lost than never to have loved at all I guess..lol.
The big thing is, don't let the internet scare you, everyone I spoke with personally about their Passats loves them. I mean some kind of sick, twisted, over zealous, un-natural affection for the car...I want one!
Thanks to everyone for your responses on Highlander vs Passant Wagon. It's helped in my decision process. I appreciate it.
I think I'm leaning more strongly toward the Passant Wagon. I spoke with a friend who's wife has a Passant Sedan. She loves it and has had no problems. I still feel that the reliability is a risk compared to a Toyota, but I like barkasy1's attitude. Sometimes ya just gotta go for it and see what happens.
While talking with friends about the Passat, someone asked if I had looked at the Audi A4 Avant. I hadn't, so I did some internet research.
The A4 Avant looks to be a bit smaller, but the cargo area is like a retangular box shape, with no wheel wells ! I want to see it in person to see if my dogs would fit.
The 3.0 engine model looked out of my price range, but the 1.8T didn't. I didn't do much of a feature comparison, but it looked like the GLX likely offers more for the money. At least the engine for sure, 6 vs turbo 4.
Did anyone consider or compare the Passat Wagon GLX vs the Audi A4 Avant 1.8T ?
I looked at the manual and the sticker on the fuel door and it says 91 minimum. I live in an area where 3 grades of gas are offered at 99% of gas stations: 87, 89 and 93. So unless I want to mix 89 and 93 (and make 2 credit card purchases for each refuelling) I am stuck with 93. Any suggestions?
I am not sure where you are seeing the angst. I agree that a buck or two a gas tank will not make a difference. If it did I would still drive my Corolla ;-) What I don't understand though is why people say premium is not required if the car manual says 91 minimum octane rating is required. That, in my book, means: premium required. The manual for our Lexus RX300 says: 87 minimum octane required, higher octane is recommended for better performance. I take that to mean: regular is fine, use better grade if you wish. But the Passat doesn't give me that option. If I use 89 or 87 it is below the required grade. Since I can't buy 91, I end up buying 93 since the manual doesn't give a maximum octane restriction ;-)
I must have a different kind of Passat. In the technical data section of my manual it says "Premium OR Regular unleaded. For maximum performance, unleaded Premium is recommended". My Passat is a 2002 V6... I use Premium myself but my point is that VW doesn't say you MUST use the expensive stuff.
Sorry if I offended you, I did not mean it personally.
Actually, it's over on the main Passat board and on some of the Passat vs. _______ boards that this question keeps coming back like a bad penny, often with people avowing that they would never buy a Passat because of the extra cost of premium gas. It is this attitude that I cannot fathom - people who are considering the purchase of a $25+K car who then base their decision on the cost of gas.
I've put on 61K trouble free miles on my 2000 1.8T wagon since buying it in August 2000, and average 28 mpg in mild weather, 26 mpg in winter. Using regular probably would lower those figures by 1 or 2 mpg. Premium (variously 91, 92 or 93 octane) here in PA usually costs about 17 cents more than 87, and 7 cents more than 89. Even putting 30K+ miles per year, I'm paying perhaps a little more than $100 a year more after adjusting for the increased mpg. With all the other operating expenses, plus the cost of the car itself I just cannot understand how anyone could make a buying decision based on that $100 outlay.
I think it is the 1.8t that has the 91+ gas recommendation........VWguild may/can clarify.....I use the local 92 most of the time and 89 once in a while if not near my reg gas station......with no noticeable effect....... I have also done the "parking lot" survey, and ALL I have talked to about their passats have loved them.....no negative comments, ON the internet it ranges from love to taking down VWOA with lawsuits, etc. reality must be somehwere in between......... I've had mine close to a year...and a rarity on maui the dealer service has been quite good!. the tech has work on VW's for 30 yrs, is quite knowledgable and they , so far, have taken good care of my car.......I DO NOT DRIVE LIKE A FORMULA ONE driver.......some of these people beat their car do death and then complain......and some just get lemons.......
I'm looking at both the Variant and the Avant. One point of difference is that I believe the Avant offers four years of free regularly scheduled maintenance while VW does not. Can anyone confirm this ?
If VW doesn not offer free maintenance coverage, does anyone know what the approximate cost for 4 years of regularly scheduled maintenance might be for the Variant ?
Due to the fact that VW outsells Audi 4:1 it has become impossible for VW to maintain it's Scheduled Maintenance Program...These were basically Oil Change services...$25-$35
The Audi Maintenance Program is 48Months/50K Miles whichever comes first. With the exception of this service component the Warranties are the same...
A larger difference is found in the cars themselves...
Thanks for the info about the maintenance vwguild.
As I said in an earlier post, I'm looking at both the Variant and the Avant. (I've been posting in the Audi A4 Avant board as well for anyone who might be interested).
My wife and I took a look at both the Avant and the Variant on Saturday. I measured them up and the Variant had only slightly more floor cargo space, which surprised me(althought they are both based on the same platform). The roofline on the Avant definately slopes more, so there is less roofline space. The more squared off roofline of the Variant definately makes it look larger. Also, the Variant 2nd row seats can be configured so that when they are folded down, the cargo space is totally flat. I don't believe this is possible on the Avant, but I need to recheck this.
Bottom line is that I think the cargo space difference is insignificant as a decision point for me, mainly because the floor cargo space is really about the same.
A more significant difference is what you get for the same money. I'm comparing a 1.8T Tip Avant (with an optional sunroof)with the Variant GLX which are about the same MSRP (the Variant GLX is slightly higher).
I think the main difference is you get a bigger engine with more amenities with the GLX. One feature the GLX has that is not even an option with the 1.8 Avant is power seats with memory. I also think you get 16" alloy with the GLX vs 15" alloy with the 1.8 Avant, although the larger wheels are an Avant option for more money. Same for heated seats. Standard on the GLX; option on the Avant 1.8. It might be the same case with leather interior, but I'm not sure (leather interior is not important to me). As I said, you get more standard features with the GLX.
With the Avant 1.8 you get better gas mileage and a better fit and finish and quality of materials (in my opinion).
I think one sort of hidden savings benefit is that the Avant has 4 years of no-cost maintenance whereas you have to pay for maintenance costs with the Variant. As you (vwguild) pointed out, these costs may not be that significant if the only maintenance is oil changes.
Did I miss anything major (or minor) ?
It's really a tough call for me trying to decide between the two, which is ok, because I think both bring a lot to the table.
My next step is to do a test drive of both. The problem is trying to find either one with the engine and/or tranmission I'm interested in to test drive! (The Variant I looked at on Saturday was the W8; the Avant was the 3.0)
I bought an A4 1.8 sedan last Fall and we needed to replace my wife's Outback Limited wagon. I couldn't find an A4 Avant so we bought the Passat GLX 4 motion wagon and paid a premium price because of the short supply in the Pacific NW. The Passat is a very nice car but the gas mileage is going to be significantly less. The 1.8T engine is no screamer but it really does well and I could get 30 MPG on some road trips. I think the Audi handles better than the Passat. We like the fact that the seat folds flat and the finish in the Passat is great. We don't like the engineer's obsession with locking everything. To open the rear doors after after shutting down the car, you have to activate the unlock switch. Same with the trunk. Even if you just close it and don't get into the car, it locks. Bottom line is I wish I had been able to have the option of buying the Avant. I think I would have gotten a car that I like better for less money and more economical to operate.
Shouldn't you be comparing the 1.8t A4 to the 1.8t Passat. Then the Passat would be quite a bit cheaper, and have the lowest operating costs of all, as it gets better mileage than the A4. Also remember that your monthly car payment is part of your operating cost.
Tmck: Thanks for sharing your experience. Now that you mention it, I did notice that the truck on the Variant locked the three or four times I closed it. I didn't really think about it at the time. I used the button on the door to unlock it. I also noticed it was a silent unlock. The salesguy said it can also be unlocked using the key fob. I think I closed the Avant's trunk about the same number of times, but I don't recall having to unlock it each time. I'll verify this on the Avant later this week.
One other thing I remember I liked on the Avant was the Tiptronic shift controls on the steering wheel, which the Variant doesn't offer.
Concerning the engine differences. I understand that your 1.8T is on a sedan, but do you notice much difference between the 1.8T, which is advertised at 170hp and the Variant's V6's 190hp? I would imagine that the V6 would seem smoother with better low-end torque.
Dudleyr: You make a real valid point concerning my comparison. I've been focused on taking a "what can I get for this much money" approach rather than a similar model approach. I'm willing to pay around ~29 to 32K, so I'm comparing cars based on that price range. I started out looking at the Variant and I liked all the amenities the GLX offered. I then learned that I could get an A4 Avant within that price range, which surprised me. That's how I started my comparison.
I'll take a look at the model approach that you suggest. Maybe the cost differential will sway me, though I think it's unlikely since I'm trying to get the most I can within my price range. But, we'll see. I'll do the model comparison. Thanks.
The V6 is a bit stronger in the Passat than the turbo 4 in the Audi. It is smoother. Both are adequate. Turbo lag is not a big issue. What I like better about the Passat is the leather upholstery It has the cruise control on the steering wheel as well as the radio controls. It is a little bigger so I can get golf clubs in sideways. It has power memory seats. What I like better about the Audi 1.8 T. I like the Tiptronic shift stick better. I like the dual climate controls. It is better looking. It is an Audi. The door/trunk locking is better. It will be cheaper to operate. I am probably better off with the Passat wagon so both of our cars won't be the same on the inside and we won't grow tired of them so fast. My wife does love the Passat and it's her car.
I had (thankfully had)a 99 Passat wgn with the 1.8T and tiptronic. As directed in the owners manual I used premium from day one. From 9000 miles until I traded that lemon in, every 1000 miles the check engine light came on and the car went in to the dealer. They changed this and that, switching coils and replaced computers, upgraded computer and many other things. About 3yrs, 30k miles on the odometer, and no oil in the pan 2wks after they changed the oil, they came up with the brilliant idea the premium gas was too good and I should be using the medium grade. They said the intake valves were having carbon build-up and that this was due to the premium gas I was using. As a chemist and someone who had the car in my possession for less time then the dealer had it in their garage, I traded the car for a nice dependable 2001 Olds Silohouette. I guess I was just one of the lucky 1 in a million owners of a VW piece of junk. So to some this all up, don't use premium like the Owners Manual says, don't go cheap and get low grade, go for the mid grade gas.
I want to buy a 2002 Passat GLS Wagon with a V6. I was just told by a VW salesperson that VW has stopped making the GLS with a V6. She said I have to buy a GLX if I want a V6. I have been searching VW dealer websites and have found GLSs with V6s but not in the color I want or with the options I want. Has VW stopped making the 2002 Passat GLS wagon with a V6 like she told me? I have seen some discussion in the Town Hall about the 4 cylinder Passat wagons but would like to hear what others say about the long term reliabilty and durabilty of the 4 cylinder. We will be carrying cargo quite a bit and are interested in knowing if the 4 cylinder is powerful enough to carry full loads on long trips. Thanks!
Don't know about the GLS V6, but I was told by a VW dealer that VW is not building any more '02 GLX Wagons. And in the Northeast, there pretty much are no '02's to be had. The '03's are due in August, so I would have to order an '03 if I wanted the GLX Wagon.
Does anyone know for sure when the '03 models will be available. I am interested in a GLX 4-motion wagon. The dealer told me that the '03 will be another six months wait. Is that true? Because the '02 4-motion/wagon is pretty rare in the Seattle area already. Especially in the exterior/interior color combo that I wanted. Also anyone know what's new with the '03?
I've placed a factory order for a silver 2002 GLS manual wagon w/ lux, leather and monsoon about 4 months ago. I just got a call from the dealer saying that the order to Germany was misplaced and they no longer make 2002 model there. But what the dealer are willing to offer is to give me a 2003 model, which is identical to the 2002 model, with the same options. The only difference is the color - silverstone gray instead of silver. I accepted the offer and they said the car will be ready by next month (sometime in June). I wonder would I be able to get the 2003 model this early? (While everyone say the 2003 are due at least in August.)
I also checked out the Avant 1.8...as an engineer I opted for the added torque of the V6 Passat GLX Variant. The GLX gives you substantially more for the money than the Audi A4 Avant. I would have only been able to get the 1.8 manual with the sport package for the same money. The 2.8 V6 is the same engine the Audi used on its V6 until 2000 anyways.
I bought a GLX Variant about a week ago and am in the process of adorning it with accessories. I use my vehicles to transport cargo and I have a specific question.
Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes a FULL cargo mat...one that also covers the folded rear seats?
A GLX 4MO scheduled for production next week will probably be delivered late June on the East Coast...Late July out here on the West Coast secondary to the 31/2 weeks at sea getting to the Port of San Diego...*HD* your Dealer is being, how should I say this?, less than candid with you?
There are so few GLX 4MOs on the ground that the 2003s will be here with no interruption or delay waiting for Dealers to find homes for 2002 Product...Find a more honest Dealer!!!
I am leaning towards a 2003 GLS wagon with the 1.8T and manual. How well is this combination working in the heat of Phoenix? Does the engine run hot? Does the airconditioning run cold? And what are your experiences with the local dealers? I love the car - it is blast to drive yet practical too. But I had a bad experience with an earlier VW (the original Rabbit) so I am a wee bit concerned about taking the step again into the VW world.
I am looking for a pre-owned passat wagon, preferably in the new body style. My range is about $15k-$22k max with the $22k having very little mileage on it, and being the new body style.
Does anyone know a good dealership in the PA, NJ, DE tristate area that might have something like this or anyone that maybe selling one right now?
My 2000 Passat came with a plastic bag containing the cigarette lighter and the front license plate holder (not needed here in PA). Dealers probably attach the holders in states where they are required.
My 2002 Passat came with a front plateholder attached also, which the dealer conveniently used to hold their own license plate-sized advertisement until my state-issued plates came!
I just purchased a 2002 Wagon, 1.8T Tiptronic, Blue Silver with Black Leather, Luxury Package, Monsoon, and Homelink.
Earlier in the year I was concerned about the posts complaining about Passat reliability. I finally decided to buy the car I wanted based on driving performance, appearance, safety features, and top reviews from numerous sources. I picked the car up on Friday and so far I have not found a single defect. The build quality is superb. It was built in March of this year, well after everyone recovered from Octoberfest.
I want to buy a cargo liner, mud flaps, etc. Does anyone have a recommendation of a good source for such accessories?
I am currently debating whether to get a Passat V6 or W8, or should I get the Audi Allroad. We are selling a Trooper, so I am a little concerned about moving down in size and have therefore also looked at an MDX or Pilot. Any comments on the size issue, any one wish their Passat or Allroad was larger? I am also concerned about the reliability of Audi, as there is a VW dealer in our town but the Audi dealer is a 1.5 hour drive away. Any feedback is much appreciated! Thanx!
Comments
I bid $357 over TMV for an identical car "on the lot" last week and the dealer refused it (wanted $150 more). I'm trying to determine if perhaps TMV is several hundred off on this car at this time and maybe I need to up my offer (or just wait for the '03s and order one of those).
The other alternative is to buy on the web, Costco, etc.
Hope this helps
The one thing that you need to invest in are some good quality all-weather floor mats -- either the OEM VW or weatherguard mats. Those have been a lifesaver on numerous occasions! Don't even bother with the stock mats -- just put them away for when you go to sell the car.
Hope this helps...
I'm strongly considering a Passat Wagon, but I was wondering if it would be big enough for my 2 dogs, which are Lab size. (I haven't see a Wagon up close. The dealers are out of inventory until August when the '03 arrives.)
Would the 2 dogs be able to fit in the very back cargo space when the rear sits are UP ?
Thanks.
Just wondering if any of you Passat Variant (wagon) owners checked out the Highlander before your VW purchase. If so, why the Variant over the Highlander ?
I was very close to ordering a Highlander when I saw a Variant on the road and decided to look into them. After doing a little bit of prelim investigation, I'm now leaning stronly toward the Variant. The reasons for the Variant off the top of my head are:
- lower to the ground. Easier for my dogs to get in/out. Also, my petite wife doesn't like the SUV highness.
- Styling. Kinda close, but I like the VW styling better. Even thou it's a wagon, it doesn't say "soccer mom", as much as the Highlander. It's a bit more sporty than the Highlander.
- Features. I was comparing the GLX vs the Limited. I think the Variant offers more standard features for maybe slightly more money. I like memory seats, which aren't even offered on the Highlander.
Two issues that are in the Highlander's favor for me are reliability and dealer location. I have a '92 Toyota Camry now and had another Toyota in the past. They are and were incredibly reliable. The reliability issue is my one main concern with the VW. Also, there are a couple of Toyota dealers fairly nearby. I trust their service(for the most part). The VW dealers are not convenient and I don't know anything about them. (I live in the Boston area if you have any recommendations).
I guess that's about it. Anyone else ?
Thanks.
-stuartc
From what I gather, VW has stopped production of the 2002s and will producing 2003. So you may be limited in terms of interior/exterior color combinations. I'm still weaning myself off the Passat brochure. Just kidding. But it was that close of a decision for me. Don't get me wrong, I have no regrets about getting the Highlander. Hope this helps. Feel free to e-mail me if you other questions.
Barry
I'd like to be seriously interested in a Passat wagon, 1.8 liter turbo and manual transmssion. The major worry for me is this: I do about 21,000 mi/year, two thirds of it city driving. Lots of stop-start, lots of short trips, all at 5,000 ft. above sea level. Is this asking for trouble from the turbocharger, as I have been advised by several people? I intend to keep the car as long as possible - into the 150,000 mi. range.
Thanks for your advice,
Paul M.
My logic is that a turbo is a lot simpler than the engine itself. If the engine can last for hundreds of thousands of miles, why can't the turbo?
I've never owned a turbo, so my questions are fairly uninformed. I guess the concern that was expressed to me had to do with heat build-up in the turbocharger (especially bearings?) with the sort of usage that I described.
Paul M.
I would add to your comparison: RX has less cargo room at the back but has more passenger space, especially the back seat with flat floor and bench style seat (3 adults are fine). RX has softer more cushiony ride, Passat is stiffer and sportier. RX has a lot of body roll in turns, Passat has only minimal body roll. RX has a terrible turning radius (making it harder to park), Passat is much better. Passat (4 motion) has slightly better mpg but requires premium gas, RX is fine with regular or mid grade.
pjm6: a turbo actually excels at high altitude. As opposed to a normally aspirated engine, it does not lose power at high altitudes. However, if you do a lot of driving and can live with a smaller car, perhaps the Jetta TDI wagon (~50mpg) is worth considering? At any rate, turbos are very reliable these days, as long as you let the oil warm up before you punch the gas all the way. Even a lot of start-stops may not be a problem (depending on the intervals) since the oil stays warm for quite some time. While a cooling-down period is no longer necessary given modern turbo designs, you may still want to drive a bit on the reasonable side half a minute or so before you turn off the engine. And always use good synthetic oil.
stuartc: the Passat's cargo space is quite good. Perhaps you can bring your dogs to the dealer? As far as handling is concerned, there is absolute no comparison with the Highlander (or Camry). Test-drive one, you will be surprised!
- D.
To be honest, given the amount of miles you drive, have you considered a Jetta wagon with the TDI engine. You can average 45-50 mpg (over 55 if you don't drive too fast on the freeway). It will have a little less room in the rear seat, but does have almost as much luggage space.
The TDI is also turbocharged, but it has so much low end torque that you never really have to rev it to hard, so it should be great for zipping around the city, and it's turbo will not be as stressed. It is also shorter so it would be easier to park in the city.
Remember too that non turbo engines can loose power at high altitudes, but turbo engines don't.
Don't worry - great minds think alike.
- D.
1.) Comfort/Ride-Passat was fun an crisper, Highlander was sedate.
2.) Features-Compare features (at least in the GLX) and the Highlander is more expensive.
3.) Exterior Design-We preffered the Audi-ish design of the Passat. We thought the Highlander looked like a mini-van if you squinted.
4.) Cargo-The Passat has a ton on a level floor, I think the Highlander's seats don't fold perfectly flat.
5.) Seats-I drive a lot and the cockpit is important. I am tired of feeling like a cheese-doodle after a long ride. The ergonomics of the Passats Seat beats the Highlander's seats for me (I'm 6' 2"). 8 postion driver memory AND 8 position passenger seats...WOW!
6.) Highway Driving-The Passat is an Auto-Bahn car, the Highlander is a Camry Based car. The Passat coasts at Highway Speeds!
A lot of factors changed my decision from a Camry to a Passat. I loved the Passat, but I felt that Toyota would be more reliable. I would rather have fallen in love and lost than never to have loved at all I guess..lol.
The big thing is, don't let the internet scare you, everyone I spoke with personally about their Passats loves them. I mean some kind of sick, twisted, over zealous, un-natural affection for the car...I want one!
Mine should be here this week!
Dave ;^)
I think I'm leaning more strongly toward the Passant Wagon. I spoke with a friend who's wife has a Passant Sedan. She loves it and has had no problems. I still feel that the reliability is a risk compared to a Toyota, but I like barkasy1's attitude. Sometimes ya just gotta go for it and see what happens.
While talking with friends about the Passat, someone asked if I had looked at the Audi A4 Avant. I hadn't, so I did some internet research.
The A4 Avant looks to be a bit smaller, but the cargo area is like a retangular box shape, with no wheel wells ! I want to see it in person to see if my dogs would fit.
The 3.0 engine model looked out of my price range, but the 1.8T didn't. I didn't do much of a feature comparison, but it looked like the GLX likely offers more for the money. At least the engine for sure, 6 vs turbo 4.
Did anyone consider or compare the Passat Wagon GLX vs the Audi A4 Avant 1.8T ?
Thanks,
stuartc
I
Any suggestions?
If a buck or so per tank of gas is that big a deal for you, perhaps you should be looking at less expensive cars.
What I don't understand though is why people say premium is not required if the car manual says 91 minimum octane rating is required. That, in my book, means: premium required.
The manual for our Lexus RX300 says: 87 minimum octane required, higher octane is recommended for better performance. I take that to mean: regular is fine, use better grade if you wish.
But the Passat doesn't give me that option. If I use 89 or 87 it is below the required grade. Since I can't buy 91, I end up buying 93 since the manual doesn't give a maximum octane restriction ;-)
My Passat is a 2002 V6... I use Premium myself but my point is that VW doesn't say you MUST use the expensive stuff.
Actually, it's over on the main Passat board and on some of the Passat vs. _______ boards that this question keeps coming back like a bad penny, often with people avowing that they would never buy a Passat because of the extra cost of premium gas. It is this attitude that I cannot fathom - people who are considering the purchase of a $25+K car who then base their decision on the cost of gas.
I've put on 61K trouble free miles on my 2000 1.8T wagon since buying it in August 2000, and average 28 mpg in mild weather, 26 mpg in winter.
Using regular probably would lower those figures by 1 or 2 mpg. Premium (variously 91, 92 or 93 octane) here in PA usually costs about 17 cents more than 87, and 7 cents more than 89. Even putting 30K+ miles per year, I'm paying perhaps a little more than $100 a year more after adjusting for the increased mpg. With all the other operating expenses, plus the cost of the car itself I just cannot understand how anyone could make a buying decision based on that $100 outlay.
Jetta...As well as Jetta/Bora Wagon.
I have also done the "parking lot" survey, and ALL I have talked to about their passats have loved them.....no negative comments, ON the internet it ranges from love to taking down VWOA with lawsuits, etc. reality must be somehwere in between.........
I've had mine close to a year...and a rarity on maui the dealer service has been quite good!. the tech has work on VW's for 30 yrs, is quite knowledgable and they , so far, have taken good care of my car.......I DO NOT DRIVE LIKE A FORMULA ONE driver.......some of these people beat their car do death and then complain......and some just get lemons.......
I'm looking at both the Variant and the Avant. One point of difference is that I believe the Avant offers four years of free regularly scheduled maintenance while VW does not. Can anyone confirm this ?
If VW doesn not offer free maintenance coverage, does anyone know what the approximate cost for 4 years of regularly scheduled maintenance might be for the Variant ?
Thanks,
- stuartc
has become impossible for VW to maintain it's
Scheduled Maintenance Program...These were basically Oil Change services...$25-$35
The Audi Maintenance Program is 48Months/50K Miles
whichever comes first. With the exception of this
service component the Warranties are the same...
A larger difference is found in the cars themselves...
As I said in an earlier post, I'm looking at both the Variant and the Avant. (I've been posting in the Audi A4 Avant board as well for anyone who might be interested).
My wife and I took a look at both the Avant and the Variant on Saturday. I measured them up and the Variant had only slightly more floor cargo space, which surprised me(althought they are both based on the same platform). The roofline on the Avant definately slopes more, so there is less roofline space. The more squared off roofline of the Variant definately makes it look larger. Also, the Variant 2nd row seats can be configured so that when they are folded down, the cargo space is totally flat. I don't believe this is possible on the Avant, but I need to recheck this.
Bottom line is that I think the cargo space difference is insignificant as a decision point for me, mainly because the floor cargo space is really about the same.
A more significant difference is what you get for the same money. I'm comparing a 1.8T Tip Avant (with an optional sunroof)with the Variant GLX which are about the same MSRP (the Variant GLX is slightly higher).
I think the main difference is you get a bigger engine with more amenities with the GLX. One feature the GLX has that is not even an option with the 1.8 Avant is power seats with memory. I also think you get 16" alloy with the GLX vs 15" alloy with the 1.8 Avant, although the larger wheels are an Avant option for more money. Same for heated seats. Standard on the GLX; option on the Avant 1.8. It might be the same case with leather interior, but I'm not sure (leather interior is not important to me). As I said, you get more standard features with the GLX.
With the Avant 1.8 you get better gas mileage and a better fit and finish and quality of materials (in my opinion).
I think one sort of hidden savings benefit is that the Avant has 4 years of no-cost maintenance whereas you have to pay for maintenance costs with the Variant. As you (vwguild) pointed out, these costs may not be that significant if the only maintenance is oil changes.
Did I miss anything major (or minor) ?
It's really a tough call for me trying to decide between the two, which is ok, because I think both bring a lot to the table.
My next step is to do a test drive of both. The problem is trying to find either one with the engine and/or tranmission I'm interested in to test drive! (The Variant I looked at on Saturday was the W8; the Avant was the 3.0)
- stuartc
Bottom line is I wish I had been able to have the option of buying the Avant. I think I would have gotten a car that I like better for less money and more economical to operate.
One other thing I remember I liked on the Avant was the Tiptronic shift controls on the steering wheel, which the Variant doesn't offer.
Concerning the engine differences. I understand that your 1.8T is on a sedan, but do you notice much difference between the 1.8T, which is advertised at 170hp and the Variant's V6's 190hp? I would imagine that the V6 would seem smoother with better low-end torque.
Dudleyr: You make a real valid point concerning my comparison. I've been focused on taking a "what can I get for this much money" approach rather than a similar model approach. I'm willing to pay around ~29 to 32K, so I'm comparing cars based on that price range. I started out looking at the Variant and I liked all the amenities the GLX offered. I then learned that I could get an A4 Avant within that price range, which surprised me. That's how I started my comparison.
I'll take a look at the model approach that you suggest. Maybe the cost differential will sway me, though I think it's unlikely since I'm trying to get the most I can within my price range. But, we'll see. I'll do the model comparison. Thanks.
What I like better about the Audi 1.8 T. I like the Tiptronic shift stick better. I like the dual climate controls. It is better looking. It is an Audi. The door/trunk locking is better. It will be cheaper to operate. I am probably better off with the Passat wagon so both of our cars won't be the same on the inside and we won't grow tired of them so fast. My wife does love the Passat and it's her car.
-stuartc
Does anyone know for sure when the '03 models will be available. I am interested in a GLX 4-motion wagon. The dealer told me that the '03 will be another six months wait. Is that true? Because the '02 4-motion/wagon is pretty rare in the Seattle area already. Especially in the exterior/interior color combo that I wanted. Also anyone know what's new with the '03?
I also checked out the Avant 1.8...as an engineer I opted for the added torque of the V6 Passat GLX Variant. The GLX gives you substantially more for the money than the Audi A4 Avant. I would have only been able to get the 1.8 manual with the sport package for the same money. The 2.8 V6 is the same engine the Audi used on its V6 until 2000 anyways.
I bought a GLX Variant about a week ago and am in the process of adorning it with accessories. I use my vehicles to transport cargo and I have a specific question.
Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes a FULL cargo mat...one that also covers the folded rear seats?
Thx, Dave ;^)
A GLX 4MO scheduled for production next week
will probably be delivered late June on the East Coast...Late July out here on the West Coast
secondary to the 31/2 weeks at sea getting to the
Port of San Diego...*HD* your Dealer is being,
how should I say this?, less than candid with you?
There are so few GLX 4MOs on the ground that the 2003s will be here with no interruption or delay
waiting for Dealers to find homes for 2002 Product...Find a more honest Dealer!!!
Does anyone know a good dealership in the PA, NJ, DE tristate area that might have something like this or anyone that maybe selling one right now?
Thanks.
page...put in your Zip Code and the radius that
you are prepared to travel...
That's it...All there is to it...;)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Earlier in the year I was concerned about the posts complaining about Passat reliability. I finally decided to buy the car I wanted based on driving performance, appearance, safety features, and top reviews from numerous sources. I picked the car up on Friday and so far I have not found a single defect. The build quality is superb. It was built in March of this year, well after everyone recovered from Octoberfest.
I want to buy a cargo liner, mud flaps, etc. Does anyone have a recommendation of a good source for such accessories?
Thanks for your help.
Bob in PA
Thanx!