Hi this is in reponse to keep posting bugs, no matter how many times I enable auto login I almost always have to login, there is no indication that I was ever logged in. Also it is my humble opinion comparing the volume of posts in the new format to the old there are more posts being dropped than are being posted. hoping you are able to sort the bugs in the very near future as I am sure there are many more frustrated posters like myself hosts included. Cheers Pat.
I am currently testing out the LL bean model and wanted some advice, good or bad before I buy. First, I have never owned a Subaru so what is it like?
Second, the sticker is 29,990 and they will sell it for 28,080. It is the base LL bean with no extras (not sure what you would add). What do you think about that pricing? Each dealer I visted only had one of them in stock and wouldn't budge on the price except for this one dealer.
I liked the v6 compared to the limited. I also like the climate control becasue I have better use of my time than keep messing with the heater controls.
I have just ticked over 40000km (25000ml) in my 1999 Outback Limited (equivalent to your 2000 model year car in USA) and am delighted. It is an absolutely superb handling car and exceptionally safe and solid. The manual Outback is fine in 2.5l H4 format but auto really needs a bigger engine. If you want an Auto, the H6 would be a good proposition. The Auto is a better proposition if you do much heavy city driving as the manual can be a bit tight initially. The Manual is better for perfomance and fuel economy.
Fuel economy is good but not fabulous. Typical range is about 10.5-11.0lt/100km (you will have to translate yourself as US gallons are different to ours). Cruising is typically about 9.0-9.5lt/100km although better if you slow below 100kmh (62mph).
Brake feel can be difficult to appreciate if you are used to other cars. Make no mistake, they are extremely effective but some people claim the feel is spongy. I actually think the feel is very progressive and controlled. However, I am used to European cars which have a markedly different feel to American ones. If you want interesting brakes, try driving any large Citroen, particularly a ID/DS where the brakes are operated by a sort of button arrangement on the floor. Until mastered you spent your time with nose firmly squashed against the dashboard each time you touched the brakes.
Climate control is excellent and very reliable. I just set it to Auto and leave it. Air Con runs to take moisture out of the air even in mid winter and economy difference is negligible.
Tire wear is fairly even across all four wheels and current indications suggest probable wear on Yokohama Geolandar will be about 50000 to 70000 km (about 31000 to 44000ml). Subarus are extremely sensitive to inaccurate tire inflation and Subaru's recommended tire pressures seem to be most suitable. Running overinflated, even by one or two pounds, results in excessive harshness and underinflated to poorer handling. Side to side variation, particularly on front wheels, results in poorer tracking.
Regular servicing is vital and when run on lower grade fuel, performance is markedly improved by addition of top end cleaner at service intervals. Australian spec cars, which may be tuned slightly differently to US spec ones, definitely run better on 98 RON fuel. Given US pump fuel is typically 91-94 RON, I am not sure how US performance applies.
Here in Oz, the servicing experience is excellent. I previously ran a Mercedes which was a major drama whenever it needed a service, sometimes disappearing myteriously for days at a time. A car is a tool of trade for me and hence I cannot afford to be off the road for long. The usual routine here is that I drop the car, and go into the dealer's lounge to read the paper, do some work and drink a coffee or two. The car is returned washed, serviced and ready to go, normally within 90 minutes. It really is a pleasure. As mine can be operating under tough conditions, I have an intermediate oil change service at 6250km (about 4000ml) in addition to the main services at 12500km(about 8000ml).
The Outback is a very pleasant car on road but really comes into its own as the weather or road conditions deteriorate. Others have written about "No more snow days with a Subaru" and their extensive use in the bush here and more particularly in those areas where snow or heavy rain prevail, bear testament to their poor condition usability. For some good fun, try taking an Outback onto sloppy clay or deep dust filled roads.
I am not sure if you can get the dust and pollen filter in the US. Here, where many of the roads are dirt when you get seriously outback, the filter is a boon but does need to be changed regularly. Dealers do tend to forget this as the filter is buried somewhere deep under the dashboard and requires removal of the glove box.
One of the amusements of Subaru buying is approaching current owners for their opinions. I kept finding people who would say something like "Of course, this is the third one we owned and we only traded the last one in at 300.000km because we got such a great trade in offer". Subarus have high residuals. Of course, once you buy one you find yourself regularly stopped for your opinion.
The pillarless windows are hard to master. If closed with the glass down, it can seem that the doors are rattly but this is a misapprehension. The door seals and window rubbers do need to be secure and it is worth leaving the doors open on a hot day to allow the rubbers to expand to their original condition. The rubbers can also be dislodged by overenthusiastic little hands (I have a four year old who is going to be an engineer if he makes adulthood without electrocuting himself first). This shows as excessive wind noise. Some have also complained about wind noise from the roof rack but this has generally been due to crossbars fitted the wrong way around.
The most common cause for complaint amongst posters to these pages (although not frequent) has been the appearance of the Check Engine Light (CEL). Subarus are fitted with a fully sealed fuel system and if the fuel cap is not screwed on tightly, the system detects a possible leak and lights the CEL. Remember to screw the fuel lid on until it clicks and there should be no problem.
My Outback sees a combination of city commuting, long distance cruising and off bitumen country use. It performs all tasks very well, probably slightly less exciting around the city than my beloved VW Golf GTi MkII but heaps more relaxing on the long trips and dramatically better off road. I arrive home relaxed and ready to talk to the kids, not distressed from fighting a beast.
My overall impression after 18 months ownership is that this is the best screwed together car I have ever owned and certainly the most fun. That comes after some moderately exciting cars, markedly faster than an Outback. None have had quite the "IT" factor that the Outback has though. It's a car that grows on you slowly. A short test does it no justice but over time you really appreciate it.
I recently purchased(last Thursday12/21/00) and had my first real experience in the snow last night. It was wonderful! All the systems work great. The climate control comes on, only after it can produce warm air(HOT) and I can't begin to keep it at the recommended 77 degrees. My previous Subaru was bought in'74 and I kept it for 2 years, but it was just too small. I am in my mid 60's and was set to buy a Toyota Sienna, but my wife wasn't happy with my choice. She said she wasn't a soccer mom any more. A friend has a Subaru and so I decided to check it out. When I went to a dealer to get a brochure, I fell in love with this car.
The Bean has all the toys a "boy" like me could want. The rear seat could be a little bigger and could use another 2 inches in leg room, but otherwise I think it's about a perfectly conceived vehicle and with the HO-6 it definitely feels quick. I'll have to wait to see gas mpg after it is broken in.
Living in the Chicagoland area, my LL Bean wagon has been going through the snow since December 12 when we got hit with a 14 inch storm. Seems as if the snows come every few days and other than covering up the previous mess by making things look "white" again, it's getting to be a pain! We've had a total of over 24 inches this month so far. Temperatures have ranged from the upper teens to sub zero. Wind chill has already been as low as minus 45.
All through this, the LL Bean wagon has performed flawlessly. Traction is great and the feel of confidence is excellent. Gas mileage has ranged from 16.9 mpg (local driving only) to today's high of 20.4 mpg. The wagon still has less than 1,000 miles on it and I'm sure numbers will improve.
You are right when you say the automatic climate control system is great. Not a hitch so far. I keep my temperature set at 68 degrees which I feel is more than adequate. Of course, during this wonderful weather spell, I do wear a parka. And yes, it is an LL Bean parka which was purchased some two years ago!!!
I hope you, Nitkita, and others with LL Bean models continue to share views and experiences.
Graham, thanks for the great post! It was very enlightening. Subarus have a different reputation in Oz, no doubt about it.
Re the Check Engine Light: some Subies over here on this side of the pond (USA) have been recalled due to the ECU being overly sensitive to certain inputs. Symptom: the Check Engine Light comes on when there is nothing wrong!
I am trading my 2001 OB limited OB Auto today for a new Suburban. I drove a 2001 LL Bean for the past week (my dealer wanted to see if he coulf talk me in to it instead of going somewere else to trade for a Chevy. The LL Bean is in no way worth it to me the engine difference if barely noticable and the milage sucked I would take the h4 any day for the price difference. The 2 reasons I am selling my OB are poor milage I never got over 20 in town and 24.5 on trips and it now has over 16,000 miles also after taking one long trip I realized the car is way too small and uncomfortable for travel. and the poor passenger has little or no leg room. I can get a suburban Loaded with leather and everything for just a few dollars more than the LL Bean and the room is great and oh so much comfort. The milage is around 15 to 16 in town and around 19 to 21 on trips My dad has one we drive alot and this is his average milage. So it is gone by by little one. If Subaru ever makes a full size or even mid size vehicle I would defineatly look at it but not as long as they are this small and expensive , Yes the all wheel drive is great but it just doesn't out weigh the rest. They would be great for a second caror something. I bought a 97 for my son to drive to college and its okay for this but not for a family auto to travel in
Thanks to all the previous responses, I ended up buying (leasing) the LL Bean Outback. Got a price of $28,080 being the last of the month and year. That seemed to be about $800 over invoice. I could have gotten a Limited for $100 over, but the H6 was a blast to drive.
If you are tight on money, never drive the H6 then drive the H4, you will want the H6.
I love the climate control and the heated seats. It is also nice knowing that the scheduled maintenance is taken care of by LL Bean for 3 years!! (you dont get this on the VDC). The car will go nicely with my LL bean watch and coat (he he).
Also got a free trip to FL for 3 days and 2 nights. If you are buying in the Delaware area, go see Dover Subaru.
Each dealer is only getting a couple of ll beans a month for the next 3 months, so the price will remain high.
Hope to enjoy it for the next 3 years, but then again not too much since i have to turn it in.
The new Outbacks come stock with Firestone "Wilderness" tires. Because of the Explorer recall, there has been a lot of negative publicity about the Wilderness line (deservedly so). I was concerned about these tires and decided to research them. They are not in fact "Wilderness" tires at all but another Firestone design. Nevertheless, I have decided to replace them.
The 2001 tires size is 225/60/16 97H. I have found an affordable tire of interest (Bridgestone RE910), which sounds suitable for the wet climate and occasional snow where I live. Trouble is, it has a T speed rating. The H rating recommended by Subaru almost forces one to purchase a high-performance tire. These are more costly and also have limitations.
Does anyone know what problems or compromises, if any, might be encountered by using T rated tire on my 2001 Outback? I'd also appreciate any comments on the Bridgestone 910 (or 930, which is an H), or suggestions for other tires that would work well in the Pacific Northwest climate. THANKS
You won't have any problem using T rated tires. In fact they will probably last longer than the H rated ones too. If my memory is correct, H is rated for 130 mph and T is either 118 or 124. Either way, you're not going to get your OB up to those speeds. I used to sell Bridgestone tires and they are a great product, hardly ever had any defects or problems with them. Good luck
I recently bought an outback 01 and feel the same way. Some of my observations are:
(1)I would like the OB more if it was a bigger car. The way it is now is too tight of a fit for a family. I don't think I'll trade it in instead I will probably drive it until hopefully they come out with a larger car. They I'll trade it in for that.
(2)The windows are too sluggish. It would be better if they go up and down a little quicker.
(3)It would be nice if the doors have window frame in them. This would decrease wind noise and be sturdier.
(4)Ignition light would be nice.
(5) The power issue doesn't bother me that much. If OB comes in an H6 I would get it but not for what they want for it.
(6) The ride is rough and on long trips on bumpy roads it can be be tiring.
(7) I noticed that when I'm driving on the highway, I have to constantly do microadjustments on the steering to keep the car traveling straight. This can be tiring also when traveling on a long highway trip.
In summary, do I like my OB? Yes. It snowed here quite a bit in NE Ohio and I feel much safer in an OB and I don't worry about getting stuck. However, if the OB didn't have some of the points that I mentioned, I would like it more.
does any one have any experience with blizzax tires made by bridgestone? Someone told me that they are tires for ice and snow and they have little studs on them. They stop a lot quicker than regular all season tires specifically compared to all season tires, they can stop 30 ft less than regular all season tires. I wonder what they would be like in an AWD? And how those tires compare to an AWD with regular all season tires and a Front wheel drive with these special tires? Does anybody know?
Hi oobe blizzak tires are very good however they only have a tread life of about 25,000 miles, you may want to consider nokian hakkapelietas about the best winter tire made a little expensive but last for about 80,000 miles. Good luck Pat.
epepper, willoc: Speed ratings are really "temperature" ratings, and tires may not necessarily be chosen for top speed capability. There could be other factors involved (load/pressure/etc). An H rated tire might be better for sustained 80mph cruising than a T rated tire just because it can handle the temperatures better, regardless of how the tires are rated for top speeds.
It wouldn't hurt to check with Subaru to find out why they specified H rated tires. Clearly, the H4 OB is not a 130mph car (governed to 112mph I think), though the H6 can do 124mph according to Car & Driver. I would be curious to know if we can use T rated tires on an OB.
I did some tire shopping a while ago, and found that the Michelin X-One was a great choice for all weather driving, though it is also T-rated so the above disclaimer applies. Sam's Club sells these as the X-Radial Plus, for about $80-90 a piece.
oobe: my parents have Blizzaks on their Honda Accord, and they are awesome winter tires. I would go so far as to say that their FWD car with Blizzaks is better in snow/ice than my AWD Outback with the stock all-season tires. Having Blizzaks on an AWD drive car would be an even better combination.
Hi, Just what to share my frustration ;-) about the problems with 1-month old L.L.Bean.
1. Auto-climate control is broken (apparently from the begging) 2. Loose fit of wood dashboard cover. Fixed by myself. 3. Bizarre cable coming out of passenger seat. Surely, assembling bug. 4. Heated seats aren’t operational (they got broken just couple of days ago).
What can I say? Yeas, I knew that Subaru has good long-term reliability (I still hope for that) and pretty miserable initial quality. Hope these are going to be the only problem I’ll have.
In the 2001 Subaru OB limited I just traded I had a terrible time with seat heaters, First you need to have the seat belts buckled for them to work , thats okay it will keep them from being on all the time. Mine just never worked I had it to the dealer and he couldnt figure it out he sais it just be bad heaters so he ordered new ones Subaru argued and didnt want him to do it since one of them got just a little warm they said it worked, dealer replacerd them anyway. still not much better. My sons 97 has good seat heaters as does my new Suburban. I drove the LL Bean for 8 days and was zero impressed, I would by the h4 anyday over it. there is jsut not enough difference to justify the cost. Also the mileage i got was at best 19 in combined driving usually around 16.
I agree with the post about the micro steering adjustments. My LL Bean is the same way. I've seen others discribe it as "floating". If these guys want to really compete with the Passat they have to get that straightened out. If the Passat w 4motion had a higher clearance I probably would have bought it. Overall quality at 1500 miles is good. Besides noisy brakes (which I'll have taken care of on my first service call)there's not a thing wrong with mine. My wife loves this car.
I bought an LL Bean a few days ago ($700 over invoice) and am mostly happy. All functions work, and the car is tight (no rattles, squeaks, etc.). I really like the automatic features of the climate control, and can't wait to drive this car in snow! I turned in a 4-runner which I was leasing. The LL-bean is definitely more comfortable, quieter, easier to get into. I have heard some negative comments on Outback steering and brakes, but they feel good to me. I test drove a VDC, but the difference in handling, ride, didn't seem to justify the extra bucks.
The only slight problem I noticed (and it might not be a problem/just a funtion of all-wheel-drive drivetrain) is the following: If I am cruising above about 60 mph, and I let up a little on the gas pedal, the response of the transmission/drive-train while the car slows down is not as smooth/tight as I would like. It's like there is a slight delay between the time I let up on the gas and the message finally getting to the wheels. Same thing happens if I accelerate above 60 mph. This does not happen below 50 mph. Has anyone had a similar experience with Outbacks? It's is only a slight annoyance, but I am wondering if it is something that could be adjusted. Thanks
I have had Bridge stone RE92s on 2 Legacy ( a 92 LS and 98GT) as OEM. The minute you lose any tread, they stink in snow and rain. I have replaced them with Pirelli P500s (so so but better than the RE92 in light snow/wet) and Michelin Pilot XGT4 - now thats a real tire under all conditions! My in law has Michelin X Ones on her 92 L now, those seem pretty darn good in all weathers too and the tread life is incredible. For winter use, I lived in MN before and now in IL, I have had Pirelli S2, Bridgestone Blizaak WS15, Michelin Arctic Alpins on my Legacys. The Blizzak is undoubtedly the best for ice. The Michelins next. The Michelins are far better than the other two for dry roads and wet but are probably a good compromise if you don't get way too much snow/ice. I will probably replace them with Blizzak MZ02s when they wear down (supposed to have better dry road handling than the WS50 which has replaced the original WS15). Unfortunately being a Michelin the Alpins are in that nether nether region of tread wear where it looks like they are close to replacing but will go on for a few more seasons before getting there! I've probably put 20K+ on them already. The Blizzaks do have a lower life due to their treadcell (which gives it its superior ice grip) which is only on half the depth of the tread (and then you are into a regular all season compound but it starts with an original tread depth which made the new Michelin look used!) But you can't beat the Blizzak on ice.I've gotten 3-4 seasons out of them on my wifes car (a Windstar) so its not too bad. I will never buy another car again except a Legacy as long as I live in the snowbelt. Well, maybe the new AWD BMW 3 series but only if they have fixed their engine problems. When I lived in Europe in the 80s I had one. It was great if you are into engine and computer replacements under warranty the whole life of the car! For those who don't have winter tires and have snow, it makes a big difference even on an AWD Subie. Not just for traction to get going but primarily for stopping.
I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing some of these annoyances such as floating steering/microadjustments. How come I never read about this in any of the posts? Now I'm almost thinking that maybe I should have considered the Passat 4motion more before purchasing the OB 01.
is known to be very sensitive to tire pressure. Try reducing the pressure to about factory specs. In most cases this seems to take care of the problem.
For dedicated winter tires, the new Blizzak WS-50 is a good option. They were re designed from the original WS-15's, so you get 2 different types of snow tire compound. The soft layer on the outside is good for about 25,000, then you get to a slightly carder compound, which is different from all-season tires. Here in New England, we get a fair amount of snow and they've been great for 2 years. I also have them on a Honda Accord.
For all-season or 3 season tires, you may want to look at Dun lop D60's. They come in a wide range of sizes for pretty decent prices, and you can go Plus 1 or Plus 0 without too much of an issue.
IT types refer to Operator Error. Tire Pressures are like that. Subaru are very (underline that and put it in big bold letters) sensitive to tire pressure variations. The only time I have wondered about the handling has been when pressures are wrong and the last year or so of posts on this and the other Edmunds pages has shown that this is the only known handling problem. When adjusted back to manufacturers specs, the handling returns to excellent.
Perhaps your tire gauge is inaccurate. Check it against one at a reputable tire shop as garage gauges are notoriously inaccurate, having been dropped regularly. If in doubt buy a new one.
Anybody with floaty steering on an Outback, try going to the Subaru recommended 30F/29R tire pressure and it will make a HUGE difference. For a while, I ran my tires at 32-33 psi to see what effect it had on handling, but the car was unbearable to drive on the highway -- it couldn't track straight for beans, and the steering wheel was twitchy, jittery, and sloppy. Seriously floaty. The ride was harsh too (as expected). Went back to 30/29, and it was like a whole new car. Really, it made a huge impression on me, as if I finally discovered the real Outback! Now, I keep an eye on tire pressure more carefully, especially as the seasons change.
Our 2000 Outback also has steering float. These cars seem to completely lack the on-center feel that German cars have. I have gotten used to it a little and since the car is my wife's daily driver I don't have to put up with it but on weekends. I haven't tried the tire pressure thing yet, I will today when my wife gets home with the car. This thread was mentioned in these forums a number of months ago. One suggestion was to have the alignment adjusted so the tires toe in very slightly. I have not tried this yet, but I might. The idea is to toe them in just a little so as not to induce accelerated tire wear.
Other peeves: Can't shut off or regulate center AC vents. The car is too tight for my 6'1" American frame. My hand almost does not fit between door and seat for power adjustment. Cruise control doesn't grab speed set always, can be confused. Cargo mat slides back and keeps hatch from shutting. Oh-so-cool dash cupholder does not work well with many fast food paper cups. They get jammed on the little "finger" that sticks out to stabilize them. the console cup holder allows you to fold the finger down. When cargo net is installed two cargo hooks are rendered almost useless. Not enough foot room (yes, I have big feet). No freaking light on the steering column for the ignition key.
Hey I still like the car, but I don't think we'll keep it for 10 years as we had planned. I don't think I could stand it that long.
Just before Christmas we had about 3" of snow here. It was a little colder than usual so the snow was not quite as soggy as we often get. We drove Erfie (2000 OB) home in the snow with no problems except for one...the heated washer thingy. I had assumed that it heated the water but it seems that instead it heats the windshield exactly where the wipers park and simply warms the blades up a bit. But I wound up with a wedge of frozen snow/washer fluid stuck to the wipers. Maybe I still have the summer stuff in there.
On the plus side when we were a couple of blocks from home I suggested to my missus that we try the car up a short but very steep side street. If we did get stuck, I reasoned, we could still walk home from there. When we got there no-one had attempted the hill, up or down. The car sailed up in 2nd gear no trouble, and half way up I decided to stop and start over. I deliberately let the clutch out sharply and the wheel(s) slipped for just an instant before the car moved off. I changed into 2nd and floored it...it just accelerated up the hill. The purpose of all this was to show my wife that she really shouldn't be terrified of driving in snow. She just has to keep out of the way of all the people who think ABS brakes mean you can stop on a dime in snow.
With reference to Graham Peters recent post - I use the cabin filters too, great for gravel logging roads. Check out http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1187271&a=8744610 for pictures of how they fit. But I'm not sure if they would work for pollen, they probably should be HEPA for that and anyway, the fit seems a bit loose to me.
"Floating" peeves: get your alignment checked! My car was toed out from the factory and was literally awful. In a headwind or sidewind I had to fight the car constantly! Correcting the alignment eliminated all hints of the problem and made the car quite nice to drive. It doesn't have the "on center" feel of other cars I've owned, but I find it to be acceptable, plus it serves as a constant reminder that this car is "different" (AWD). Plus I believe this can be adjusted to suit a particular owner's desire by setting the car with a bit of toe-in, which is allowable within the limits of the factory-recommended adjustments. My car is currently set pretty much dead-ahead.
Jeff wrote on "Other peeves":
Can't shut off or regulate center AC vents. You can shut them off by selecting a setting other than a vent setting on the control knob. The vents on the ends of the dash will continue to have air flowing as long as they are open (using the control next to each).
The car is too tight for my 6'1" American frame. My hand almost does not fit between door and seat for power adjustment. Can't help you there. I'm 5'11", normal build, and I find the car comfortable. I have an '00 Legacy GT sedan.
Cruise control doesn't grab speed set always, can be confused. I've had that happen to me too.
Oh-so-cool dash cupholder does not work well with many fast food paper cups. I don't find it to work well with much of anything! It's cute but nearly useless. The one in the center console is better, but not great either as it has a tendency to put things in the way of my elbow when I'm shifting (manual tranny).
No freaking light on the steering column for the ignition key. my car has the keyless remote lock/unlock keyfob thingie. When I press the unlock button, the interior light comes on. However, when I get in and close the door, the interior light goes out! So I press the unlock button again, and guess what ;-) Yep, the light comes back on and I can see what I need to see. It may not be the fully automatic solution some desire, but it gets the job done.
Nice tip Francophile. But there is a strange thing about the interior light that I have noticed. The unlock thingie turns the light on for you. Great. But when you actually open the door, the light dims slightly. I would assume that some extra load could do this but I don't think there is one, so I can only think that the circuit from the door switch has a higher resistance than the one that turns it on when you unlock.
I too have a problem getting my hand onto the electric seat adjuster between the door and the seat. It depends where you actually have the seat positioned...some places give you more room. In my case it's actually my watch that gets stuck.
I noticed that the latest Australian H6 that I looked at last week appears to have a green ring around the key insert. As this was bright daylight, I could not confirm it but think it is illuminated.
Also Aussie spec cars get dimming interior light which slowly fades as you get in the car. My one beef is that this would be better if it switched off automaticall after the engine fires as it does in the Passat. No big deal though.
I have a '00 Subaru GT wagon (10,000 miles so far) which is a fantastic car except for one small problem. whenever I drive it long for more than a few minutes a strong smell starts coming from the rear of the car, more on the left (exhaust side). it happens more when I drive the car when compared to my wife but I tend to drive a bit faster, use the brakes more, etc. At first i thought it was the brakes but they work fine, the car rolls when in neutral, they don't make any noise, etc. the dealer said that it was undercoating that may have been sprayed on/near the exhaust and that it smells when it is heated but that it should go away after a while. has anybody else had this problem?
I have to say that other than this the car is fantastic. we also looked at a Passat but chose the Sube because it seemed to be better engineered for the long haul. my mother has a '95 subaru legacy with 168,00 miles and it is going strong. my sisters '96 jetta glx has been to the dealer for everything possible and still drives like crap. The GT sticks to the road like glue and is much better-looking than the outback - i don't like all of the gold trim on the limited models.
we put nokia snow tires on the subaru and it cannot be stopped in the snow. this is my 4th set of these tires for various cars. my favorite game is to find the steepest unplowed hill i can find and then drive halfway up and stop. go some more, then stop. you can't get stuck. its also a blast to be able to acelerate from a stop in the snow. the limited slip differential in the rear of the GT probably helps some.
anyways, any help with the smell would be appreciated...
francophile, the gearshift on my 5sp Outback is notchy and hard especially while shifting into 1st and reverse (standing still) and into 2nd (either upshifting or downshifting) ... but there is no grinding noise when I shift. have you or anyone else noticed a similar thing on new 5 speeds?
I was talking to a rep from SOJ yesterday at the Washington DC auto show. I mentioned to him the issue (lack of) of a lighted ignition key slot, and he said that Japanese-spec models do have a lighted ignition key slot.
Over here in the States he's driving a Forester S Premium, and he also noticed the lack of the lighted ignition key. Hopefully all future Subes will have this nice feature.
I had to pick my wife and son up at the airport last night, and it seemed to take forever to find that key slot in the dark. Arrgh!
Our new Forester also has a fading interior light. It's a nice feature.
Sorry but I don't remember what year Subie you have. My '00 was notchy when new but has gotten much smoother over 16K miles. Still it is probably not as nice to shift as, say, a Bimmer 3 series and it is likely that it never will be. I've considered a short throw shift kit and may do it if I keep the car (there are rumors circulating the household that I may hand it off).
1-2 is a bit bumpy and I suspect it always will be, but then almost every car I've ever owned has had a harder time on the 1-2 shift than on any other. The hitch is not horrible and I've never had any grinding.
Going into reverse is the same way, and again I've never owned a car that wasn't hard to get into reverse sometimes. I use the following two tricks: 1) put the transmission in neutral, let out the clutch, push the clutch back in, try reverse again; 2) put the car in first and then into reverse.
I've never had any trouble with getting into first gear when the car is stopped.
Just as I show up at the Subaru dealership to buy a new Forester, I see the Outback! More shoulder room, cargo space, a finer car. I'm tempted to get one. Someone please walk me through this dilemma. I plan no off-road driving, just trips to the Hill Country of Texas and short commutes around Houston. Forester or Outback? Thanks, Sam
Ah, I know that dilemma well! I too was shopping for a Forester and ended up with a base Outback (priced and equipped more or less like a Forester S). I liked the Outback's interior much better, and it is roomier inside. On the highway, I think it cruises better. I will admit that the Forester is quicker, sportier, and handles better, but overall the Outback was a better choice for me, and I'm glad I got it (of course, Forester owners can make equally compelling statements).
If you are looking for a 5-spd, I think both cars drive nicely with the 2.5 H4 engine. If you're looking for an auto, I think the transmission in the Forester is much better than the Outback. Might be an important consideration to think about.
Good luck with your dilemma! Either car is a great choice.
Tough call on the Forester v Outback line. I looked at both.
Forester is tighter (smaller) inside and less comfortable on long cruising drives. Forester is probably more competent off road and sharper handling. Outback has more space for carrying junk (cargo area takes an extraordinary amount) and rear leg room is a lot better. Both are very good cars.
Outback is less obvious than the tall Forester but harder to park in tight spots. I guess this is no big issue in Texas.
Have fun with the dilemma. It's rather like working out which chocolate you should pick first from the whole box - orange cream or nougat. Ah,... decisions!
I also had the same problem. I went into the dealer to buy the Forester and drove out with the Outback,with no regrets whatsoever. For mostly city driving I feel the Outback is nicer. It has a little more room in the back passenger area than the Forester. Either way, they are both great vehicles. Mark
Let me share my experiences with you which were the opposite. Back in 98, I was shopping for an OB and had my heart set on one. Then, the Forester catches my eye in the showroom. I was sold by it's great outbound visibility, tighter cornering and better acceleration.
However, I should note that back then, the new OB wasn't out. Had I been shopping today, I might have been swayed by the smoother ride and higher level of refinement.
I'd chose it on what kind of ride quality you're looking for.
Spunky, nimble and spartan - Forester Refined, relaxed and bigger - OB
We took a little 2000 mile road trip over the last week. First: We LOADED our 2k OB with people, animals, and stuff. Then I got a THULE Excursion 15 cu. ft. hard shell roof top cargo carrier (aka evil alien space pod) and filled that too. In all it was about 800lbs total (or so) including the 90lbs total on the roof (including the 26lbs for the carrier). We got 21mpg overall at 70-75mph doing all highway driving on I70 and I76. Thats pretty good considering what we were asking the car to pull and the aero penalty of the cargo box. Driving through the mountains I had to push it pretty hard and frequently visited 4500rpm. During that section of the drive we were around 19mpg. Second: I drove an LL Bean OB all weekend and got 22 mpg highway at 70mph. It had 8000 miles on it and I put another 200 on it.
nematode... Just curious about your selection of the Thule roof carrier and did you consider the Subaru accessory carrier? I haven't really started looking into this, but I think we're going to need a roof carrier come summer, and would be interested in your (or anyone's) perspective on what to look for or what's the best.
I'm not sure what the price is on the Subaru carrier but I bet its around $300-400. I got the Thule Excursion for $220 with the lock but not including tax at the Bikeline in Pottstown, PA. I needed it THAT DAY so I only called about 10 places including Subaru dealers. Mostly bike shops and outdoor stores seem to carry them (Bikeline, REI, EMS, and some local stores). The range for the Thule was $220-275 for the EXACT same model number so I would look around. I did not get a chance to look up the MSRP from the company. Perhaps you could get it even cheaper but I was pressed for time. None of the Subaru dealers (only 2 near and 1 far) had the Subaru carrier in stock so I did not look into the price. I really only looked at Thule and Yakima but there are other brands which may be better quality. I'm pretty sure the Sears 20 cu. ft. (SV-20 or something like that) will fit too but its over 60in long AND if you mount it the dust deflector would probably bump it. Also the Sears carrier SUPER HUGE and kinda scary. Not to mention its about 40+lbs so you can only put 50-60lbs in it before you reach the limit of the factory rack. I dont think the smaller Sears carrier will fit and it was really tall so it scared me too. At 55in long the Thule works pretty well. Its not sleek or anything like that....but it holds a lot of stuff. It can eat 2 medium size suitcases, 4 pairs of shoes, a small bag of dog food, lots of dog toys and dishes, and a large soft dog bed. I picked one that would allow me to open the tail gate without a problem. Both Thule and Yakima had carriers around that size (13-15 cu. ft.) that were easy to find. In general, the Yakima carriers seemed to cost more for the same thing but I'm not an expert. They could be better built but the Thule seemed fine to me. I am very happy with the performance of the Thule. No water or crud got in, easy to install (takes 2 people), easier to remove, and fairly easy to load. The only bad part is that its hard to store when not in use. If you are used to installing carriers you can have it on in under 10min the first time and less than 3min after that. Not a single tool is necessary and all you need are the factory cross bars and a friend. Everything else is provided and the directions could be followed by a trained monkey. If you are a novice like me and you have to read the directions it may take 20min to put it on the first time. I found it, paid for it, mounted it, checked it, and was gone in 25min. Oh yea, I almost forgot, wind noise is increased quite a bit as would be expected but not horrible until 75-80mph. I kept it around 70-75mph and all 950 miles went smoothly.
Was absolutely sold after the test drive--tight circles on the grass did it! Tried the Outback, it's too cushy for me, but if luxury were an issue... Just wondering if the moonroof (wow, it's huge) package is worth it--too bad it only comes in 4 colors. Is black a difficult color to get? Saw a '98 and it looked brand new!
I drive a Forester L around the Hill Country (well, on a day-to-day basis, mainly inside Austin, but, hey, that's still notably hillier than Houston). Though I'm mostly just echoing things that others have already said, the things I'll go ahead and note: -- The Outback has more cargo space overall and is clearly better for long, low loads in the back, but the Forester's cargo area is slightly better for tall loads or awkward-shaped loads that can't lay flat. -- The Outback is better suited for hauling four full-sized adults around since it has more backseat legroom, which is rather tight in the Forester. -- The Forester is easier to maneuver and parallel park since the Forester is shorter than the Outback with a better turning radius (about 2 feet tighter). -- The Forester is much more peppy to drive with noticeably better acceleration, since it has the same engine as the Outback but is quite a bit lighter. I found the Outback a bit sluggish (referring of course to a 4-cyl.-engined OB; this no doubt doesn't apply if you have the bucks needed to spring for one of the new 6-cyl. Outbacks). -- The Forester has slightly better ground clearance (only about a quarter-inch better, I think). Admittedly this doesn't much matter driving around town, but, even though I'm not an off-roader, I did manage to find myself on a long, just-barely-there BLM dirt road on vacation this fall in southern Utah this fall and felt a very definite relief in having my Forester's not-too-bad ground clearance.
I traded cars with my friend for 3 days. We swapped a 2k OB Ltd. for a 01 LL Bean. I came away thinking that the Bean is a fantastic value but has some issues that need to be ironed out everyone rushes out to get one. The only complaints that my friend has about his LL Bean are: 1) Dismal fuel economy wich I can back up. He has a log of every tank since it had 7 miles on it at pickup. All fillups were with 92 octane. 17.5mpg combined for the his first 3 tanks and slowly improving to a little over 18mpg since then. His commute is 50% highway. The MPG has not improved since 5000 miles (about 8500 now). When I drove it around I got 22mpg with all highway over 200 miles. He said that thats about the best it gets and his logs back that up. 2) The automatic climate control has serious problems that its going back to the dealer for this week. I agree with him here....Its just plain crazy. The one in my Buick Regal Estate Wagon worked better. 3) The ride is too soft. I corrected this for him by increasing tire pressure to 35psi front and 34psi rear. 4) It has a slight dash rattle at higher speeds which I pointed out.
Things he really likes: 1) 6-CD changer 2) The additional power 3) Really like the quiet cruise 4) The Subaru cooler (I dont know what this is) 5) Easy to install his bike rack 6) 60/40 split seat is good for skis 7) Really like the seats but wishes they were not 2-tone leather
So my questions are: *Is the additional power worth the drop in fuel economy? And the premimum fuel? The guy I borrowed the Bean from has lots of cash so he thinks it is. *Has anyone tried 87 octane in the H6? Does the fuel economy get even worse?
Sam, Looks like they will be having special financing according to www.subaru.com: "As of January 3rd, all 2001 Subaru models are available with special financing as low as 3.9% APR. Up to 60 month terms available (at higher rates) and no down payment required. Hurry, you must take delivery from dealer stock by February 28, 2001. Subject to credit approval. See your nearest dealer for details."
Also, I was able to find better rates than the previous Subaru special financing for longer term loans at www.eloan.com. Right now they are at 7.06% but I'm sure with the Fed rate decrease they will be going down soon. For shorter term loans Subie was better, but we are looking at a 60 month (for our LLBean to be picked up later this month) and eloan beat them at the time.
Comments
Bob
Also it is my humble opinion comparing the volume of posts in the new format to the old there are more posts being dropped than are being posted. hoping you are able to sort the bugs in the very near future as I am sure there are many more frustrated posters like myself hosts included.
Cheers Pat.
Second, the sticker is 29,990 and they will sell it for 28,080. It is the base LL bean with no extras (not sure what you would add). What do you think about that pricing? Each dealer I visted only had one of them in stock and wouldn't budge on the price except for this one dealer.
I liked the v6 compared to the limited. I also like the climate control becasue I have better use of my time than keep messing with the heater controls.
thanks
I have just ticked over 40000km (25000ml) in my 1999 Outback Limited (equivalent to your 2000 model year car in USA) and am delighted. It is an absolutely superb handling car and exceptionally safe and solid. The manual Outback is fine in 2.5l H4 format but auto really needs a bigger engine. If you want an Auto, the H6 would be a good proposition. The Auto is a better proposition if you do much heavy city driving as the manual can be a bit tight initially. The Manual is better for perfomance and fuel economy.
Fuel economy is good but not fabulous. Typical range is about 10.5-11.0lt/100km (you will have to translate yourself as US gallons are different to ours). Cruising is typically about 9.0-9.5lt/100km although better if you slow below 100kmh (62mph).
Brake feel can be difficult to appreciate if you are used to other cars. Make no mistake, they are extremely effective but some people claim the feel is spongy. I actually think the feel is very progressive and controlled. However, I am used to European cars which have a markedly different feel to American ones. If you want interesting brakes, try driving any large Citroen, particularly a ID/DS where the brakes are operated by a sort of button arrangement on the floor. Until mastered you spent your time with nose firmly squashed against the dashboard each time you touched the brakes.
Climate control is excellent and very reliable. I just set it to Auto and leave it. Air Con runs to take moisture out of the air even in mid winter and economy difference is negligible.
Tire wear is fairly even across all four wheels and current indications suggest probable wear on Yokohama Geolandar will be about 50000 to 70000 km (about 31000 to 44000ml). Subarus are extremely sensitive to inaccurate tire inflation and Subaru's recommended tire pressures seem to be most suitable. Running overinflated, even by one or two pounds, results in excessive harshness and underinflated to poorer handling. Side to side variation, particularly on front wheels, results in poorer tracking.
Regular servicing is vital and when run on lower grade fuel, performance is markedly improved by addition of top end cleaner at service intervals. Australian spec cars, which may be tuned slightly differently to US spec ones, definitely run better on 98 RON fuel. Given US pump fuel is typically 91-94 RON, I am not sure how US performance applies.
Here in Oz, the servicing experience is excellent. I previously ran a Mercedes which was a major drama whenever it needed a service, sometimes disappearing myteriously for days at a time. A car is a tool of trade for me and hence I cannot afford to be off the road for long. The usual routine here is that I drop the car, and go into the dealer's lounge to read the paper, do some work and drink a coffee or two. The car is returned washed, serviced and ready to go, normally within 90 minutes. It really is a pleasure. As mine can be operating under tough conditions, I have an intermediate oil change service at 6250km (about 4000ml) in addition to the main services at 12500km(about 8000ml).
The Outback is a very pleasant car on road but really comes into its own as the weather or road conditions deteriorate. Others have written about "No more snow days with a Subaru" and their extensive use in the bush here and more particularly in those areas where snow or heavy rain prevail, bear testament to their poor condition usability. For some good fun, try taking an Outback onto sloppy clay or deep dust filled roads.
I am not sure if you can get the dust and pollen filter in the US. Here, where many of the roads are dirt when you get seriously outback, the filter is a boon but does need to be changed regularly. Dealers do tend to forget this as the filter is buried somewhere deep under the dashboard and requires removal of the glove box.
The pillarless windows are hard to master. If closed with the glass down, it can seem that the doors are rattly but this is a misapprehension. The door seals and window rubbers do need to be secure and it is worth leaving the doors open on a hot day to allow the rubbers to expand to their original condition. The rubbers can also be dislodged by overenthusiastic little hands (I have a four year old who is going to be an engineer if he makes adulthood without electrocuting himself first). This shows as excessive wind noise. Some have also complained about wind noise from the roof rack but this has generally been due to crossbars fitted the wrong way around.
The most common cause for complaint amongst posters to these pages (although not frequent) has been the appearance of the Check Engine Light (CEL). Subarus are fitted with a fully sealed fuel system and if the fuel cap is not screwed on tightly, the system detects a possible leak and lights the CEL. Remember to screw the fuel lid on until it clicks and there should be no problem.
My Outback sees a combination of city commuting, long distance cruising and off bitumen country use. It performs all tasks very well, probably slightly less exciting around the city than my beloved VW Golf GTi MkII but heaps more relaxing on the long trips and dramatically better off road. I arrive home relaxed and ready to talk to the kids, not distressed from fighting a beast.
My overall impression after 18 months ownership is that this is the best screwed together car I have ever owned and certainly the most fun. That comes after some moderately exciting cars, markedly faster than an Outback. None have had quite the "IT" factor that the Outback has though. It's a car that grows on you slowly. A short test does it no justice but over time you really appreciate it.
Hope the above is of use
Cheers
Graham
The Bean has all the toys a "boy" like me could want. The rear seat could be a little bigger and could use another 2 inches in leg room, but otherwise I think it's about a perfectly conceived vehicle and with the HO-6 it definitely feels quick. I'll have to wait to see gas mpg after it is broken in.
Congrats on the LL Bean purchase.
Living in the Chicagoland area, my LL Bean wagon has been going through the snow since December 12 when we got hit with a 14 inch storm. Seems as if the snows come every few days and other than covering up the previous mess by making things look "white" again, it's getting to be a pain! We've had a total of over 24 inches this month so far. Temperatures have ranged from the upper teens to sub zero. Wind chill has already been as low as minus 45.
All through this, the LL Bean wagon has performed flawlessly. Traction is great and the feel of confidence is excellent. Gas mileage has ranged from 16.9 mpg (local driving only) to today's high of 20.4 mpg. The wagon still has less than 1,000 miles on it and I'm sure numbers will improve.
You are right when you say the automatic climate control system is great. Not a hitch so far. I keep my temperature set at 68 degrees which I feel is more than adequate. Of course, during this wonderful weather spell, I do wear a parka. And yes, it is an LL Bean parka which was purchased some two years ago!!!
I hope you, Nitkita, and others with LL Bean models continue to share views and experiences.
Don
Re the Check Engine Light: some Subies over here on this side of the pond (USA) have been recalled due to the ECU being overly sensitive to certain inputs. Symptom: the Check Engine Light comes on when there is nothing wrong!
Cheers,
-wdb
If you are tight on money, never drive the H6 then drive the H4, you will want the H6.
I love the climate control and the heated seats. It is also nice knowing that the scheduled maintenance is taken care of by LL Bean for 3 years!! (you dont get this on the VDC). The car will go nicely with my LL bean watch and coat (he he).
Also got a free trip to FL for 3 days and 2 nights. If you are buying in the Delaware area, go see Dover Subaru.
Each dealer is only getting a couple of ll beans a month for the next 3 months, so the price will remain high.
Hope to enjoy it for the next 3 years, but then again not too much since i have to turn it in.
The 2001 tires size is 225/60/16 97H. I have found an affordable tire of interest (Bridgestone RE910), which sounds suitable for the wet climate and occasional snow where I live. Trouble is, it has a T speed rating. The H rating recommended by Subaru almost forces one to purchase a high-performance tire. These are more costly and also have limitations.
Does anyone know what problems or compromises, if any, might be encountered by using T rated tire on my 2001 Outback? I'd also appreciate any comments on the Bridgestone 910 (or 930, which is an H),
or suggestions for other tires that would work well in the Pacific Northwest climate. THANKS
I recently bought an outback 01 and feel the same way. Some of my observations are:
(1)I would like the OB more if it was a bigger car. The way it is now is too tight of a fit for a family. I don't think I'll trade it in instead I will probably drive it until hopefully they come out with a larger car. They I'll trade it in for that.
(2)The windows are too sluggish. It would be better if they go up and down a little quicker.
(3)It would be nice if the doors have window frame in them. This would decrease wind noise and be sturdier.
(4)Ignition light would be nice.
(5) The power issue doesn't bother me that much. If OB comes in an H6 I would get it but not for what they want for it.
(6) The ride is rough and on long trips on bumpy roads it can be be tiring.
(7) I noticed that when I'm driving on the highway, I have to constantly do microadjustments on the steering to keep the car traveling straight. This can be tiring also when traveling on a long highway trip.
In summary, do I like my OB? Yes. It snowed here quite a bit in NE Ohio and I feel much safer in an OB and I don't worry about getting stuck. However, if the OB didn't have some of the points that I mentioned, I would like it more.
Good luck Pat.
It wouldn't hurt to check with Subaru to find out why they specified H rated tires. Clearly, the H4 OB is not a 130mph car (governed to 112mph I think), though the H6 can do 124mph according to Car & Driver. I would be curious to know if we can use T rated tires on an OB.
I did some tire shopping a while ago, and found that the Michelin X-One was a great choice for all weather driving, though it is also T-rated so the above disclaimer applies. Sam's Club sells these as the X-Radial Plus, for about $80-90 a piece.
oobe: my parents have Blizzaks on their Honda Accord, and they are awesome winter tires. I would go so far as to say that their FWD car with Blizzaks is better in snow/ice than my AWD Outback with the stock all-season tires. Having Blizzaks on an AWD drive car would be an even better combination.
Craig
Just what to share my frustration ;-) about the problems with 1-month old L.L.Bean.
1. Auto-climate control is broken (apparently from the begging)
2. Loose fit of wood dashboard cover. Fixed by myself.
3. Bizarre cable coming out of passenger seat. Surely, assembling bug.
4. Heated seats aren’t operational (they got broken just couple of days ago).
What can I say? Yeas, I knew that Subaru has good long-term reliability (I still hope for that) and pretty miserable initial quality. Hope these are going to be the only problem I’ll have.
Nikita.
Overall quality at 1500 miles is good. Besides noisy brakes (which I'll have taken care of on my first service call)there's not a thing wrong with mine. My wife loves this car.
The only slight problem I noticed (and it might not be a problem/just a funtion of all-wheel-drive drivetrain) is the following: If I am cruising above about 60 mph, and I let up a little on the gas pedal, the response of the transmission/drive-train while the car slows down is not as smooth/tight as I would like. It's like there is a slight delay between the time I let up on the gas and the message finally getting to the wheels. Same thing happens if I accelerate above 60 mph. This does not happen below 50 mph. Has anyone had a similar experience with Outbacks? It's is only a slight annoyance, but I am wondering if it is something that could be adjusted. Thanks
For winter use, I lived in MN before and now in IL, I have had Pirelli S2, Bridgestone Blizaak WS15, Michelin Arctic Alpins on my Legacys. The Blizzak is undoubtedly the best for ice. The Michelins next. The Michelins are far better than the other two for dry roads and wet but are probably a good compromise if you don't get way too much snow/ice. I will probably replace them with Blizzak MZ02s when they wear down (supposed to have better dry road handling than the WS50 which has replaced the original WS15). Unfortunately being a Michelin the Alpins are in that nether nether region of tread wear where it looks like they are close to replacing but will go on for a few more seasons before getting there! I've probably put 20K+ on them already.
The Blizzaks do have a lower life due to their treadcell (which gives it its superior ice grip) which is only on half the depth of the tread (and then you are into a regular all season compound but it starts with an original tread depth which made the new Michelin look used!) But you can't beat the Blizzak on ice.I've gotten 3-4 seasons out of them on my wifes car (a Windstar) so its not too bad.
I will never buy another car again except a Legacy as long as I live in the snowbelt. Well, maybe the new AWD BMW 3 series but only if they have fixed their engine problems. When I lived in Europe in the 80s I had one. It was great if you are into engine and computer replacements under warranty the whole life of the car!
For those who don't have winter tires and have snow, it makes a big difference even on an AWD Subie. Not just for traction to get going but primarily for stopping.
I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing some of these annoyances such as floating steering/microadjustments. How come I never read about this in any of the posts? Now I'm almost thinking that maybe I should have considered the Passat 4motion more before purchasing the OB 01.
Ross
For all-season or 3 season tires, you may want to look at Dun lop D60's. They come in a wide range of sizes for pretty decent prices, and you can go Plus 1 or Plus 0 without too much of an issue.
Perhaps your tire gauge is inaccurate. Check it against one at a reputable tire shop as garage gauges are notoriously inaccurate, having been dropped regularly. If in doubt buy a new one.
Cheers
Graham
Anybody with floaty steering on an Outback, try going to the Subaru recommended 30F/29R tire pressure and it will make a HUGE difference. For a while, I ran my tires at 32-33 psi to see what effect it had on handling, but the car was unbearable to drive on the highway -- it couldn't track straight for beans, and the steering wheel was twitchy, jittery, and sloppy. Seriously floaty. The ride was harsh too (as expected). Went back to 30/29, and it was like a whole new car. Really, it made a huge impression on me, as if I finally discovered the real Outback! Now, I keep an eye on tire pressure more carefully, especially as the seasons change.
Craig
Other peeves: Can't shut off or regulate center AC vents. The car is too tight for my 6'1" American frame. My hand almost does not fit between door and seat for power adjustment. Cruise control doesn't grab speed set always, can be confused. Cargo mat slides back and keeps hatch from shutting. Oh-so-cool dash cupholder does not work well with many fast food paper cups. They get jammed on the little "finger" that sticks out to stabilize them. the console cup holder allows you to fold the finger down. When cargo net is installed two cargo hooks are rendered almost useless. Not enough foot room (yes, I have big feet). No freaking light on the steering column for the ignition key.
Hey I still like the car, but I don't think we'll keep it for 10 years as we had planned. I don't think I could stand it that long.
Jeff
On the plus side when we were a couple of blocks from home I suggested to my missus that we try the car up a short but very steep side street. If we did get stuck, I reasoned, we could still walk home from there. When we got there no-one had attempted the hill, up or down. The car sailed up in 2nd gear no trouble, and half way up I decided to stop and start over. I deliberately let the clutch out sharply and the wheel(s) slipped for just an instant before the car moved off. I changed into 2nd and floored it...it just accelerated up the hill. The purpose of all this was to show my wife that she really shouldn't be terrified of driving in snow. She just has to keep out of the way of all the people who think ABS brakes mean you can stop on a dime in snow.
With reference to Graham Peters recent post - I use the cabin filters too, great for gravel logging roads. Check out http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1187271&a=8744610 for pictures of how they fit. But I'm not sure if they would work for pollen, they probably should be HEPA for that and anyway, the fit seems a bit loose to me.
Jeff wrote on "Other peeves":
Can't shut off or regulate center AC vents. You can shut them off by selecting a setting other than a vent setting on the control knob. The vents on the ends of the dash will continue to have air flowing as long as they are open (using the control next to each).
The car is too tight for my 6'1" American frame. My hand almost does not fit between door and seat for power adjustment. Can't help you there. I'm 5'11", normal build, and I find the car comfortable. I have an '00 Legacy GT sedan.
Cruise control doesn't grab speed set always, can be confused. I've had that happen to me too.
Oh-so-cool dash cupholder does not work well with many fast food paper cups. I don't find it to work well with much of anything! It's cute but nearly useless. The one in the center console is better, but not great either as it has a tendency to put things in the way of my elbow when I'm shifting (manual tranny).
No freaking light on the steering column for the ignition key. my car has the keyless remote lock/unlock keyfob thingie. When I press the unlock button, the interior light comes on. However, when I get in and close the door, the interior light goes out! So I press the unlock button again, and guess what ;-) Yep, the light comes back on and I can see what I need to see. It may not be the fully automatic solution some desire, but it gets the job done.
Cheers,
-wdb
I too have a problem getting my hand onto the electric seat adjuster between the door and the seat. It depends where you actually have the seat positioned...some places give you more room. In my case it's actually my watch that gets stuck.
Also Aussie spec cars get dimming interior light which slowly fades as you get in the car. My one beef is that this would be better if it switched off automaticall after the engine fires as it does in the Passat. No big deal though.
Cheers
Graham
I have a '00 Subaru GT wagon (10,000 miles so far) which is a fantastic car except for one small problem. whenever I drive it long for more than a few minutes a strong smell starts coming from the rear of the car, more on the left (exhaust side). it happens more when I drive the car when compared to my wife but I tend to drive a bit faster, use the brakes more, etc. At
first i thought it was the brakes but they work fine, the car rolls when in neutral, they don't
make any noise, etc. the dealer said that it was undercoating that may have been sprayed
on/near the exhaust and that it smells when it is heated but that it should go away after a
while. has anybody else had this problem?
I have to say that other than this the car is fantastic. we also looked at a Passat but chose
the Sube because it seemed to be better engineered for the long haul. my mother has a '95
subaru legacy with 168,00 miles and it is going strong. my sisters '96 jetta glx has been to
the dealer for everything possible and still drives like crap. The GT sticks to the road like glue
and is much better-looking than the outback - i don't like all of the gold trim on the limited
models.
we put nokia snow tires on the subaru and it cannot be stopped in the snow. this is my 4th
set of these tires for various cars. my favorite game is to find the steepest unplowed hill i can
find and then drive halfway up and stop. go some more, then stop. you can't get stuck. its
also a blast to be able to acelerate from a stop in the snow. the limited slip differential in the
rear of the GT probably helps some.
anyways, any help with the smell would be appreciated...
francophile, the gearshift on my 5sp Outback is notchy and hard especially while shifting into 1st and reverse (standing still) and into 2nd (either upshifting or downshifting) ... but there is no grinding noise when I shift. have you or anyone else noticed a similar thing on new 5 speeds?
Over here in the States he's driving a Forester S Premium, and he also noticed the lack of the lighted ignition key. Hopefully all future Subes will have this nice feature.
I had to pick my wife and son up at the airport last night, and it seemed to take forever to find that key slot in the dark. Arrgh!
Our new Forester also has a fading interior light. It's a nice feature.
Bob
1-2 is a bit bumpy and I suspect it always will be, but then almost every car I've ever owned has had a harder time on the 1-2 shift than on any other. The hitch is not horrible and I've never had any grinding.
Going into reverse is the same way, and again I've never owned a car that wasn't hard to get into reverse sometimes. I use the following two tricks: 1) put the transmission in neutral, let out the clutch, push the clutch back in, try reverse again; 2) put the car in first and then into reverse.
I've never had any trouble with getting into first gear when the car is stopped.
Cheers,
-wdb
If you are looking for a 5-spd, I think both cars drive nicely with the 2.5 H4 engine. If you're looking for an auto, I think the transmission in the Forester is much better than the Outback. Might be an important consideration to think about.
Good luck with your dilemma! Either car is a great choice.
Craig
Tough call on the Forester v Outback line. I looked at both.
Forester is tighter (smaller) inside and less comfortable on long cruising drives. Forester is probably more competent off road and sharper handling. Outback has more space for carrying junk (cargo area takes an extraordinary amount) and rear leg room is a lot better. Both are very good cars.
Outback is less obvious than the tall Forester but harder to park in tight spots. I guess this is no big issue in Texas.
Have fun with the dilemma. It's rather like working out which chocolate you should pick first from the whole box - orange cream or nougat. Ah,... decisions!
Cheers
Graham
Mark
Let me share my experiences with you which were the opposite. Back in 98, I was shopping for an OB and had my heart set on one. Then, the Forester catches my eye in the showroom. I was sold by it's great outbound visibility, tighter cornering and better acceleration.
However, I should note that back then, the new OB wasn't out. Had I been shopping today, I might have been swayed by the smoother ride and higher level of refinement.
I'd chose it on what kind of ride quality you're looking for.
Spunky, nimble and spartan - Forester
Refined, relaxed and bigger - OB
Can't go wrong either way!
Ken
First:
We LOADED our 2k OB with people, animals, and stuff. Then I got a THULE Excursion 15 cu. ft. hard shell roof top cargo carrier (aka evil alien space pod) and filled that too. In all it was about 800lbs total (or so) including the 90lbs total on the roof (including the 26lbs for the carrier). We got 21mpg overall at 70-75mph doing all highway driving on I70 and I76. Thats pretty good considering what we were asking the car to pull and the aero penalty of the cargo box. Driving through the mountains I had to push it pretty hard and frequently visited 4500rpm. During that section of the drive we were around 19mpg.
Second:
I drove an LL Bean OB all weekend and got 22 mpg highway at 70mph. It had 8000 miles on it and I put another 200 on it.
Just curious about your selection of the Thule roof carrier and did you consider the Subaru accessory carrier? I haven't really started looking into this, but I think we're going to need a roof carrier come summer, and would be interested in your (or anyone's) perspective on what to look for or what's the best.
---Jay
Thanks, Sam
-- The Outback has more cargo space overall and is clearly better for long, low loads in the back, but the Forester's cargo area is slightly better for tall loads or awkward-shaped loads that can't lay flat.
-- The Outback is better suited for hauling four full-sized adults around since it has more backseat legroom, which is rather tight in the Forester.
-- The Forester is easier to maneuver and parallel park since the Forester is shorter than the Outback with a better turning radius (about 2 feet tighter).
-- The Forester is much more peppy to drive with noticeably better acceleration, since it has the same engine as the Outback but is quite a bit lighter. I found the Outback a bit sluggish (referring of course to a 4-cyl.-engined OB; this no doubt doesn't apply if you have the bucks needed to spring for one of the new 6-cyl. Outbacks).
-- The Forester has slightly better ground clearance (only about a quarter-inch better, I think). Admittedly this doesn't much matter driving around town, but, even though I'm not an off-roader, I did manage to find myself on a long, just-barely-there BLM dirt road on vacation this fall in southern Utah this fall and felt a very definite relief in having my Forester's not-too-bad ground clearance.
1) Dismal fuel economy wich I can back up. He has a log of every tank since it had 7 miles on it at pickup. All fillups were with 92 octane. 17.5mpg combined for the his first 3 tanks and slowly improving to a little over 18mpg since then. His commute is 50% highway. The MPG has not improved since 5000 miles (about 8500 now). When I drove it around I got 22mpg with all highway over 200 miles. He said that thats about the best it gets and his logs back that up.
2) The automatic climate control has serious problems that its going back to the dealer for this week. I agree with him here....Its just plain crazy. The one in my Buick Regal Estate Wagon worked better.
3) The ride is too soft. I corrected this for him by increasing tire pressure to 35psi front and 34psi rear.
4) It has a slight dash rattle at higher speeds which I pointed out.
Things he really likes:
1) 6-CD changer
2) The additional power
3) Really like the quiet cruise
4) The Subaru cooler (I dont know what this is)
5) Easy to install his bike rack
6) 60/40 split seat is good for skis
7) Really like the seats but wishes they were not 2-tone leather
So my questions are:
*Is the additional power worth the drop in fuel economy? And the premimum fuel? The guy I borrowed the Bean from has lots of cash so he thinks it is.
*Has anyone tried 87 octane in the H6? Does the fuel economy get even worse?
Looks like they will be having special financing according to www.subaru.com:
"As of January 3rd, all 2001 Subaru models are available with special financing as low as 3.9% APR. Up to 60 month terms available (at higher rates) and no down payment required. Hurry, you must take delivery from dealer stock by February 28, 2001. Subject to credit approval. See your nearest dealer for details."
Edmunds usually posts incentives and rebates but doesn't have these listed yet. Check out:
http://www2.edmunds.com/edweb/rebates/index.html
Also, I was able to find better rates than the previous Subaru special financing for longer term loans at www.eloan.com. Right now they are at 7.06% but I'm sure with the Fed rate decrease they will be going down soon. For shorter term loans Subie was better, but we are looking at a 60 month (for our LLBean to be picked up later this month) and eloan beat them at the time.
Good luck!
Wendy