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Comments
I have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the automatic climate control system. On bitter cold mornings, I set the dial at 70 degrees and then turn it down to 68 degrees. I also use the heated seats! I like the way the front window defogger automatically comes on for the first few moments. The fan does not begin to operate until heat is blowing and then gradually turns itself down when interior temperature reaches the desired setting.
As for value of the H6, all I can say is you have to try it when merging into fast highway traffic. There is a very noticeable difference compared to the 2.5 four. I continue to strongly believe the price differential is very much worth the extra expense especially when factoring in the 36,000 mile service program and the other "standard" goodies.
I'd be happy to share (and learn) of other H6 owner experiences.
Don
This dealer gave me the following prices today:
New 2001 Forester "L", Feature Groups II & IV and CD player -- $22,289 including TTL, ,etc.
New 2001 Outback Wagon, CD player --
$24,535 including TTL, ,etc.
Do these prices seem right?
Thanks,
Sam
Edmund's has a really good system for determing what's a fair price. Try going here as a starting point and then clicking on the brand of car you are interested in and following the instructions. The page they eventually present you with is pretty long, so be sure to scroll all the way down through it; eventually you'll get to a listing of dealer invoice and MSRP prices that will make you the envy of your car buying friends - and the nemesis of car salesmen .
They also have some financing companies advertising here but I don't know anything about them. I financed through Subaru last March and got 3.9% for 3 years - but that was almost a year ago.
The dealer I went to is not known for being the low priced place to buy. Even so, I offered to pay 1% over invoice for my GT and they didn't hesitate to say yes; I didn't even need my invoice price sheet anymore because we used the one right from SOA!
Cheers,
-wdb
http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/carfind/resultsa.asp?mode=NEW&lstMake=SUBARU
Craig
Needless to say, I am looking at the 2001 cutback Limited and the LL Bean edition. (I decided against the Ford/Mazda Escape/Tribute because of their quality problems - plus the interior of the Escape is junk) I can't decide if the extra money for the H-6 is worth it. I'm also waiting for good financing for 60 months (like what american auto makers are offering right now) and the willingness of the dealers to "deal" a bit more on the LL Bean price. I am willing to wait until summer, if need be, to get the best price on a LL Bean, or to even wait until next year to buy, if Subaru is going to change something significantly (like better engine performance, auto-transmission changes, or a price reduction on the 6-cyl).
I would consider the Forester, all except for their placement of their cup holders. Yes, that's right the cup holders. I use my cup holders, and of course, I have the occasional spill-over. The Forester's cup holder hangs out from the front of the dash, blocking some controls; and I know of people who have shorted out their older model Subaru's dash board by spilling their beverage (the new Outback put the driver's cup holder in the center console). Any idea if Subaru is going to change their interior design (move the cup holders) next year for the Forester? Or better yet, if they are going to put the H-6 in the Forester?
I drive a lot of mixed driving aound town, I'm not a speed demon (hard to do in a Jeep), but I do like the power of 6-cyl engine when needed, especially on the steep, long grades of I-70 up to the ski areas. I have no "off-road illusions", I occasionaly drive on dirt roads, but I don't go "off-roading" as a hobby. But I do need an the occasional 4wd or Awd capability. Should I baby my Jeep for a year or two, and save money, but lose trade-in value, to wait for some significant changes in the car world; or are there no big changes ahead, so I might as well get what I can for my Jeep now?
- In the mountains a turbocharged car really shines because it can produce nearly the same power at altitude as it does at sea level. In a week there will be announcements for the new Impreza WRX, which is turbocharged. However the Impreza platform might be too small for your needs.
- If you are willing to wait a while, Subaru *might* put the turbo H4 from the upcoming WRX into the Legacy GT. If they put out a wagon version it could be a pretty close match for what you're looking for.
- Alternatively you could go with an aftermarket turbo, but then you're into reliability and maintenance areas that are quite different than they are for factory-stock vehicles.
- We've had two Cherokees with the 4.0l six. If you're happy with the performance of that motor, then I suspect you'd find the performance of any Subaru with the 2.5l H4 and a 5-speed stick shift to be more than satisfactory. If you need/want an auto then you should definitely consider the H6, in which case I'd suggest waiting a little while because it is probable that the price for an H6 Subie will be coming down.
- (Although I risk the ire of Subie fans everywhere by saying so) there are other wagons out there, such as the Audi A4 Avant and the Audi All-Road, that are turbocharged AWD vehicles. The A4 is going to be all-new later this year. I personally was looking at sedans, and I found the Legacy GT to be a FAR better value than the A4 Quattro sedan; but to be completely fair you really should make that decision on your own.
Cheers,
-wdb
I have two questions for the demonstrably knowledgable members. I am pretty much settled on an Outback Wagon over a Forester. However, I am perfectly happy with the base model, and have no desire for the various extra's of the Limited. On the advice of friends, though, I would like leather seats since I am expecting a child in the next 5 months. The advice I have gotten is that over time, leather is much easier to clean and maintain than cloth when assaulted with jelly-beans, formula, and what else. I had a dealer quote me a price for a a base wagon with leather, but when searching on the web (Edmunds, CarsDirect, and the Subaru site itself, I have yet to find leather listed as an option for the base Outback Wagon. Thus my two questions:
1.) Has anyone outthere actually purchased a base Outback Wagon (i.e., not the Limited) with leather?
2.) Does anyone have personal experience with this cloth versus leather clean-up with infants question? Is there an after-market cover for the rear seat which might serve the same purpose of protecting the cloth?
Apologies for the lengthy post. Thanks
Yes we have two kids aged 7 and 4. The bad news is that you are going to develop expertise at washing upholstery. The best behaved kids throw up occassionally, even when older and accidents do happen with chocolate bars. I had a cloth covered Mercedes where I had to remove the rear seat squab several times and hose it down. With the leather in the Outback it is merely a wipe over exercise. The improvement in parental comfort levels in not prolonging the agony is worth a lot of money.
Go with the leather (and keep a towel, wet wipes and a garbage bag in the boot).
Happy parenting
Cheers
Graham
One word of advice keep it conditioned with leather conditioner about 3 times a year and it will last indefinitely, I also agree that it is much easier to keep clean than cloth.
About the conditioner I squeeze some directly on the upholstery and then rub it in with my hands, if you let sit for about 10 to 15 minutes then take a cloth and rub off the excess, do not use a cloth to apply you only waste more than you put on.
An added advantage to using your hands you get soft skin.
I have also found the best conditioner to be Lexol.
Cheers Pat.
Cheers Pat.
The quality is not junk as a matter of fact it is usually of much higher quality than what comes from the manufacturers, the factory quality is governed by the bean counters while the aftermarket is not.
Hope this information is of some use to you.
Cheers Pat.
Of course the animals that have to give up their skin to satiate your olfactory gland might think differently.
Admittedly a smooth surface is easy to wipe clean and holds liquids on the surface. But I find modern fabric interiors (including my GT wagon) quite easy to clean. Plus it never gets hot or cold to the touch and when I wear shorts my bare skin never sticks to the seat. The comfort level in summer is worth the discount price of admission alone.
bit
Cheers Pat.
The catch is leather comes only with the Limited. So that means you'll have to look at aftermarket heated leather. Should be just over a grand or so. Dale installed some on her Forester and it looked great.
I didn't know the LL Bean came with free 36k service. Is that right?
-juice
Welcome back!
I'll confirm the LL Bean wagon DOES carry a 36,000 mile service program. I don't believe, however, the 30K service is part of this. My local shop charges $$535 for 30K intervals. If that were included in the LL Bean price, wow! But, I'm happy to "take" oil changes, tire rotations and the like.
Don
Thanks
Bob
Run, don't walk! ;-)
-juice
COPY OF TEXT:
Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site, and for your interest in an Outback
Wagon. Leather seats are not available for the 2001 Outback Wagon. Your dealer
may deal with an aftermarket supplier of leather seats. So, you should discuss
this 'option' with your dealer further. But, you will not be receiving leather
seats installed at the factory from Subaru of America, Inc.
Thanks again for your interest. Best wishes!!
John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
END OF TEXT COPY
Thanks again to all who helped out.
Stihl
Great car otherwise.
I have about 4500 miles on my 2000 OB (H4) and must say I'm disappointed in my mileage. I started out between 25 and 26 mpg, but now I'm between 20 and 22.5. The worst was 280 miles on 14 gallons. I live near Denver and the dealer (Flatirons in Boulder) says that the oxygenated fuels are responsible. I say not - I have three co-workers that still get 25-27 in their 2000 OBs. I've been watching my RPMs lately and don't go above 3500, so I wouldn't consider my driving aggressive.
Any thoughts??
Thinking of putting a hitch on my Lecacy but worry if indeed a 4cyl has enough power to pull a trailer. I know the Owner's Manual states that it has a towing capacity of 2000lbs but wanted to hear some acutual experiences. Anyone tow a trailer with their Lecacy wagons?
Finally, I've been buying Subaru parts online from www.subaruparts.com. Prices are Fantastic and great service from Scott Williams.
Darlene has it, you could get a quote from qsubaru@aol.com. Any dealer will also have it but her prices are wholesale and shipping is free (plus no sales tax outside of TN).
Tim: I think mileage in the 20's sounds about right. I've heard any where from 18 to 30 for these, so yours seems to be within the normal range.
But check out Edmunds' long term fleet. Their Xterra and their Tribute both got 12 mpg on one tank! Both average a dismal 14mpg, while neither is any bigger than your Outback.
Still, my mileage improved with age. Winter months I tend to do far worse than average, though.
I have a hitch and tested towing a 700 lb trailer that Bob Holland brought over. No drama, even up a long hill nearby. Should be ok if you don't overdo it on the weight of the trailer.
-juice
here in Seattle - stainless steel, insulated variety. It's a mere 2-3/8" in diameter at the base, stands just under 7" high, and widens (gradual taper) to 3-1/4" at the top. Has a nifty 2-way (for lefties or righties) slide-open cap to prevent spills yet allow ready access to the java. Convenient handle for large or small hands. Black and chrome in color. Holds 14 oz. Bought it at something like K-Mart or Target - around $10 as I recall - probably about last October. So they are out there - good luck!
Ken M.
In summary it tows very well, stable and solid. Power is adequate with a 5-speed (wouldn't know about auto) and a roughly 1,000lb trailer.
"I have three co-workers that still get 25-27 in their 2000 OBs"
Dont take this the wrong way but...I dont buy the 25-27mpg number for a combined estimate. Unless they drive ALL highway and they are on cruise at well below 70mph most of the way. We get 22-24mpg with our auto 2k OB Ltd on our mostly highway commute in MO. The worst I have seen in 16mph driving around Pittsburgh with 5 people in the car. I have seen a high of 29.2mpg through Indiania at just over 65mph with 2 people in the car. Six people in my department have 2k OBs and we (they) all get about 22-23mpg combined. I know 5 other 2K OB owners (2 in my family) that get the same thing. The best I have heard is 30.1mpg at 55mph. I'm not willing to drive that slow. For our commute, I like 70-75mph and my wife likes 65-70mph so we get 22mpg when I drive and 24mpg when she does.
I would tend to agree with you, but two of the three have excel spreadsheets detailing everything they've done since they purchased their cars (ie gallons of gas purchased and miles driven on the gallons, oil changes, etc). Their drives are much like mine - mostly non-expressway 45-55 mph; pretty much a mix of country/city driving. The max was 28.5, 24.7 the minimum and about 26 the norm. Just wish I was that fortunate.
Tim
1) I too have been a little dissapointed with the MPG's I've been getting (5-speed stick). I however drive about 50/50 highway and city (with congested city driving usually the norm) and am getting about 20 mpg. With the smaller tank than my old Honda Accord I am filling up a bit more than before to keep it off of 1/4 full.
2) I have noticed that the vehicle still exhibits a hot smell after travelling a 15-20 mile trip. Not quite the overspray rustproofing smell that went away after a month. This is a hot smell. Also get a bad sauerkraut smell once in a while after backing up. Must be the cat. converter.
3) Brakes tend to give a grinding/burnishing sound for the first 2-3 stops for the day. Also a breaking loose sound when accelerating from a stop occaisionally.
4) The rubber floor mats were a waste for the drivers side. It didn't cover the correct area and actually caught my heel several times while letting out the clutch nearly causing me to over-rev. Autozone had a nice mat that worked much better for $10 and the old one is in the garage for a boot mat.
5) Found that with certain high top shoes, the tongue of the shoe catches on the underside of the dash. I usually test cars with different coats on but next time I'll have to check shoes too!!
Other than those minor issues the vehicle has been a delight. I feel like a genius getting the car 1 month prior to the snowiest December on record in Toledo Ohio and it pulled me out of several tough spots after late night classes in blizzards. I'll think we'll keep it for at least another 3k.
Regards
WimpyT
(1) On long trips my wife likes to nap in the passenger seat, head on her favorite pillow, as I drive. We switch this routine when I get slepy. Forester or Outback for room and comfort?
(2) 90% of my driving is inside the loop (Houston). But for vacation trips to the Hill Country we load up with luggage and too-much stuff. I worry about the heavier Outback with lots of cargo in the hills. How will the H4 do?
If you've been kind enough to answer my posts in the past, feel free to ignore this one. I would appreciate a few responses.
Checkbook -In-Hand Sam
I have used my Outback fairly extensively for towing a domestic trailer. It is one of the better tow vehicles I have ever used. Very stable control with well tied down suspension and trailer tends to track very true. Braking is excellent even with fully laden unbraked trailer. Even loaded at highway speeds under storm force winds, stability is good.
There are a couple of variations between Australian Outback and the US version though. Ours come with Dual range transmission which is very good for starting and slow work. They also have a self levelling rear end which means that they austomatically level out the load height.
Comment on brake noise: The pads move slightly in the calipers, as they do in many cars. In mine, I back out of the driveway and brake, shifting the pads right back within the calipers. No problems. At the first stop sign, I brake and there is a "clonk" as the pads reseat themselves. Had me worried initially but after clarifying that there is no harm done, I don't hear it anymore.
If the pads are squealing, it may indicate dust buildup or glazing of the pads. Pulling the pads out to check is not hard. You can buy a commercial brake clean product. If you do open the calipers out, do be careful and ensure the pads are fully reseated. A brake specialist can usually do a clean and check condition fairly quickly. If it's irritating, it might be worth it.
Cheers
Graham
Sam: 1) Outback. 2) Forester.
Outback is the winner in comfort and space. Look at how wide the rear cargo area is, and the legroom to spare.
But the Forester is a few hundred pounds lighter. Autos have been hitting 60mph in a scant 9.1 seconds (Washington Post and Motorweek), or close to some H6 Outbacks!
Still, I'd argue that the Forester is a better city car, since it's smaller and has a shorter wheelbase and better turning cycle. Meanwhile, the Outback makes a better highway cruiser, because of the space.
Your pick.
-juice
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe only your manual-equipped Outbacks have the dual-range transmissions. It sounds like pulling a trailer is not too tough on the clutch?
Later,
Bob
Yes, the low range is only on the manual. Clutch strain is not an issue if you don't slip it too much. Mind you, it is always prudent not to overload.
Cheers
Graham
Comment on the O/B storage capacity. The kids and I were going sledding so I was ready to employee the split rear seat to carry the sleds. To my surprise, the sleds fit in the rear SIDEWAYS!!! And these were long old time runner sleds. The O/B never ceases to surprise me.
WimpyT
I'm leaving the LLBean out of this. It is like a market hype thing to me...
By the way, I own both - a '99 OB and an '00 V70XC. You can have the V70 - except for the long drive. I can do serious damage control in the OB, which I am too scared to do in the V70XC.
Maybe I don't earn enough to be a Volvo owner, but I appreciate a good deal, and Subie is IT !
The other possibility on the brake noise may have to do with current road conditions for you. When living in the UK I found there was greater brake noise when roads were heavily salted and atmosphere moist. I presume there was a build up of salts on warm discs which then cooled, drawing moisture to condense on salty surfaces and hence light rusting occurred. What you are describing may be similar.
Cheers
Graham
Today got back my L.L.Bean after 3K oil change and few fixes. Broken climate control was fixed by… attaching some tube under the dash, which apparently wasn’t properly installed either on the plant or by mechanic on the dealership when they installed CD changer. Seats heaters were okay and they couldn’t find anything wrong with them (and yeas they’re working for now). Steering micro adjustments were fixed by performing 4-wheel alignment. Overall service was B+ on Carlson Subaru, Redwood City, CA.
Some notes from my last trip on mountain skiing. We’re traveling about 350 miles round trip from sea level to 7000ft elevation with 4 adults, luggage and 3 pairs of skis on the roof. I found L.L.Bean overally pleasant with right amount of power for safe passing even uphill (sometime I got close to 5000RPM). Frankly, I didn’t feel any difference in output depending on elevation. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to test this AWD story since it was almost no snow on the road.
So, my feeling so far is that this is indeed a good choice even though I already hit some quality-related problems.
Nikita.
Wimpyt- I have noticed the burning smell in my 01 OBLtd 5spd when I back up. On one occasion (it was cold, and we had just reversed out of a parking space over a lot of snow and ice), we even stopped and got out of the car to check that we weren't ablaze.
Can someone (ateixeira perhaps) advise me/us as to how big a problem this is?
Thanks
maavelous: thanks for the feedback. What's better than to hear from someone who has both?
As for that smell, could it be you just notice it more when you're backing up? There is undercoating sprayed on all Subarus, and parts get on the exhaust. When that gets hot, it bakes and you can smell it for sure. It burns off in a few weeks (maybe longer), usually.
Could also be exhaust fumes(?). Let it idle and stand outside the vehicle to see if you can trace it. Does it only happen when the engine is cold/hot?
-juice
IA
-any.
I thought the idea was to blow dust off the rear window, no?
-juice
PS Tonight at 9pm eastern time, 6pm pacific, join the Subaru Crew for a live chat. If you go to the Owners Clubs section and open the Subaru Crew page, there is a link at the top. I'll be hosting, and we can chat live so please join in.
"I have a rear wind deflector on my '00 OB Ltd. I find that it is great for making sure my rear window collects plenty of road salt in the winter. I am wondering if it is worthwhile to switch to the rear spoiler. Does the rear spoiler use the same mounting holes that wind deflector uses? Am I better off having neither and just getting these holes plugged somehow? Any advice would be appreciated.
TIA"
In response to juice, I mean that it collects, or seems to anyway. I think what happens is it just deflects that road spray onto the rear window and it sticks. Of course, what I do not know is whether it is indeed blowing off more road spray and I would have a worse time seeing out the rear window without it.
-andy.
I bought my OB wagon this week and was talkin' this morning w/ my buddy Bob who bought a Forester a couple months ago. He still likes the thing a lot for his daily use, but he says on trips it would be nicer to have more room so the kids' feet don't keep knocking his seat all the time. He said in hindsight he wished he'd gone with the OB for the additional space.
Re mileage: I'll try to post a mileage chart for my OB in a day or two, now that I've hit 7500 miles (time for an oil change and tire rotation!). Overall, I get 20-22 in daily mixed driving, and 24-27 on long trips with the car loaded. I did notice that the car is more draggy with the front hood deflector installed, so that probably affects gas mileage too. I may try to quantify that with some numbers.
Craig
Does anyone know any sources online to find Subaru part numbers?
Chuck
I haven't needed any of this assistance with my '95 Explorer and if you told me I couldn't have gotten it for my current vehicle either, I wouldn't be too surprised.
Appreciate anyone's comments.
Regards, Dirt