This is for the Australian perspective. Our distances, once you get past the major urban areas, are similar to your less settled areas, only we have longer distances and fewer people (we can out-Texan Texans).
My Outback now has 40000km (25000ml) without any need to lift the bonnet outside checking fluid levels. This may be tempting fate to comment on its reliability but I have had absolutely no breakdowns to date.
Regular servicing is necessary but Subarus have an exceptional reputation in outback Australia where they are about the third most popular vehicle after Toyota landcruisers and Holden utilities.
I previously ran a Mercedes which ultimately broke down six times in seven days. As cars these days are a whole lot more complicated than twenty years ago, roadside fixes are harder to figure out and there is something immensely depressing about standing fixing a car in snow, wearing a business suit. You don't want to be there, you are not getting paid for it and it's something you are not expert at.
One of the great joys of owning the Subaru is its absolute reliability. There are many tales of them lasting 200,000 or 300,000 miles with no significant problems.
Mind you, I keep a membership of a Roadside Service Agency (automobile club) just in case something goes wrong. I figure that it is cheap insurance.
I know this is not a Forester topic but anyway... My another car (additionally to 2001 L.L.Bean) is 2000 Infiniti G20 and it will have to be replaced in couple of years. I will be looking at something Forester-like. Currently, I decided on Toyota Highlander V6 AWD. Does anybody know about coming Forester replacement due to in 2003/2004? Any information will be greatly appreciated.
but based on Subaru's history of new models, I would suspect the new 2003 Forester will again be based upon the now new Impreza.
I expect it to be a tad larger, and perhaps offer a performance engine to boot. The H-6? Maybe, but I suspect it might be the supercharged H-4 they showed in the ST-X concept pickup. My gut feeling is they want to keep the H-6 strictly for the Outbacks, and perhaps Legacys too.
Andy - My 2000 OB has the spoiler, i.e. the painted piece that looks like part of the car, not the black plastic stuck-on "deflector" thingy. We get mucho raino here in the coastal rainforest and I find it does a fair job of keeping the window clear. Not as good as the one that was on my 78 Dodge wagon, which actually kept the window dry unless you were in slow traffic, but pretty good. I suppose the Sube one is a compromise between aerodynamics (fuel economy/wind noise) and performance. The Dodge had no aerodynamics and thus no compromise was necessary...the spoiler deflected billions of cubic feet of air straight down the back window with no noticeable impact on fuel economy, such as it was, or wind noise, which gave me a headache after about an hour. I cannot comment on the performance of the Sube deflector...I chose the spoiler because I don't like the look of the deflector.
Dirt - I do not expect to use the roadside service from Subaru, CAA or anyone else. We only ever needed it once on our Mercury Tracer (aka Mazda 323) in 12 years and 210,000 km. I don't think many would disagree that for the last 20 years or so Japanese engineered cars have been streets ahead of American and European cars in their reliability.
Chuck - you can e-mail Darlene at QSubaru@aol.com for parts numbers (and prices).
Dirt: you can take duct tape and some tools but I doubt you'd ever use them.
Nikita: the Impreza got a 1.5" wheelbase stretch, so my guess is the Forester will get at least that much bigger. I expect it'll get a bit more to differentiate itself from the Outback (more power, low range maybe, more ground clearance, etc).
My trusted Nissan truck passed away this last week; I'm now set on purchasing a 2001 Outback Wagon. I am wondering if anyone out there has dealt with the dealership in Ogden, Utah. If so, is there a salesperson that would deserve any "thumbs up?" The posts in this discussion group have been most helpful in my decision, I thank everyone. Any additional information would be most appreciated.
Hi everyone, Does anyone have problem 00 or 01 out pulling to one side, either left or right ? My pulls to the left slightly to the left. I have checked tire pressures and they are within Outback specs.
Hi rwm My 2k Outback pulled to the left right out of the box. A wheel alignment didn't solve the problem. I had previously experienced the same problem with new tires on my other car (that dealer called it a tire pull) and it was solved by switching the front tires from side to side. Therefore, I asked the Subaru dealer to do the same thing and this solved my problem. So you might want to give it a try. One thing though, in the future you can only rotate your tires from front to back on the same side or the problem could come back. Hope it works....Tom
Thanks Tom, I'll bring my Outback for it first oil change next week and will ask the service tech to switch the front tires from side to side and hope this will solve the pulling problem.
Just wanted to second Sibbald posted. I took my 00'OB in for it's 7500 mile scheduled maint. It involves rotating the tires. I noticed that the car pulled a bit to the right. It was really noticeable on the freeway and got quite a bit of steering wheel shimmy at 60mph and higher. None of this was present before the wheel rotation. I took the car back in the next available time at the dealer. The svc guy seemed to know exactly what the cause was and that is that the tires were rotated incorrectly. He had the tech switch the tires from side to side and everything has been great since. It really is noticeable on the OB in particular because it's such a smooth tracker otherwise. Hope you have the same success.
Can't say I have any experience with Ogden Subaru, but I'll ask a friend of mine w/ an Impreza who lives in Layton. If you're willing to drive 30 miles or so, I've been dealing with Mark Miller in SLC. I leased my first Subaru there and I'm going back for my second. In fact, I'm using the same salesperson! Another friend of mine bought his Subaru from Nate Wade. You may be able to get a better price from them than you could from Mark Miller (both my friend's experience and mine). However, I like the service I get from Mark Miller and will stay with them (for now :-).
I'm pretty set on a Base Outback Wagon but now I see the Legacy GT Wagon comes with dual moonroofs -- a plus for my wife. I'm sure you OB lovers prefer the suspension on the Outback but, considering the fact that 90% of our driving is in the city, maybe we should look at the Legacy GT Wagon.
We spend about a month a year in the Texas Hill Country and most of that driving is on paved roads. Seldom do we encounter a dirt road. We're just not "off-roaders." Sometimes we encounter a low water bridge with about four inches of water. Ground clearance is 6.3 in the Legacy and 7.3 in the Outback. Is this a big difference? I see both cars have LSD.
Another consideration is headroom. The Outback has 40.2 as opposed to 38.5 in the Legacy GT.
Your thoughts, please?
Time is a factor here. I need to make this purchase in the next few days. Please email your advice to me at: shavens@flash.net.
One thing to keep in mind is that even with the extra ground clearance, the OB was never meant to be an off-roading vehicle. The extra ground clearance and suspension travel give you an extra margin for light duty offroading.
For most people, I think it really boils down to which "look" you like better. The cladding and dual tone color of the OB gives it a more "outdoorsy" look. The ground effects and monotone paint of the GT makes it look sportier.
Given the kind of driving you explained above, I personally would go with the GT for it's sportier ride and better handling in addition to the moonroofs.
Sam: are you the same Sam on the Yahoo Forester boards? Just curious.
The GT is the way to go. Sounds like you don't really need the extras the OB offers. The bonus is that the GT wagon has the twin roofs while the base Outback does not (only the Limited does), so you can get it for less moolah.
My dad has a 2001 Outback Limited and it's sweet. I've ridden in the back and the 2nd moonroof is very unselfish of the driver.
I bought a GT wagon and love it. Handling is nice, moonroofs are great and I love the looks. Never missed the inch of ground clearance. Here's a nice review:
We need a vehicle with enough room for two adults with gear for a 3 week camping trip. It should also be able to handle some rough roads in the western U.S. Is the Outback a good choice for this?
I'm thinking of buying an Outback. Primary reasons are for snow mobility (in the Sierra Nevada/Lake Tahoe and the Rockies/Denver areas) and also use on dirt roads. My understanding is that the Outback comes with all-weather tires. From peoples experience, are these adequate for this type of use or should I be looking to get a set of snow/all-terrain tires?
I had my Legacy GT serviced at Ogden Subaru while I was driving west last summer. The service dept. was great but the salesmen I talked to were pretty clueless. Can you buy a car from a mechanic?
Re GT vs. OB: the difference in headroom is the moonroof. If you get an OB with a moonroof it will have the same headroom as the GT with moonroof. For your described driving the ground clearance will not matter a bit. I personally like the monochromatic GT, and you definitely will not see yourself coming and going out on the road. Go for uniqueness, get the GT.
Hello all-- I am awaiting delivery of a 2001 Outback Wagon (with some excitement). Having previously gotten helpful feedback prior to ordering (leather seats, etc.), I am back to ask about an extended warranty. My wife and I tend to hold onto cars for a long time, and certainly feel that this will be case for our Wagon. Given this, does anyone have any experience/thoughts about getting an extended warranty? Do I have to get at purchase time, or can I add one later (undoubtably for more)? I have faith in the reliability of Soobs, but more than 6-8 years is a fair time for any car. Cheers
Extended warranties are, IMHO, a total waste of money. Especially when it's money spent on a Subaru. Normally, the amount that the extended warranty will cost you will almost never be more than the money it will cost you to keep up the vehicle after the regular warranty runs out. Now throw in the fact that it's a Subaru, whose reliability is world-reknowned, and I really doubt you'll ever use the extended warranty. I'd pass on it, but it's up to you.
You are right, though. You can get one later from a third party, but it will cost you more.
Jeremy: all Outbacks have AWD and a rear viscous LSD, but keep in mind the only thing that contacts the road is the tires. I've heard a few people complain about the stock Firestones (less so the Michelins on 99 and earlier models).
For the kind of snow you're likely to see, a winter set is a wise investment, and some are $400-600 or so. You may not want all that salt and road grim on the nice 16" alloys anyway.
You could always wait, though. See how it does, then order a set if you think you need it.
Stihl: you'll spend about $1000 for an extended warranty from Subaru. From my contact with SoA, you're better off with the one from Subaru, vs. having to fight a third party to reimburse you for stuff. You'll get red carpet treatment even before the normal warranty is up, too.
Is it worth it? They profit from it, or they wouldn't sell it, but you're buying piece of mind, and only you can determine if it's worth that.
Our family has a '93 Honda Civic Hatchback, which is a really tiny car. We're looking for another car that's safe on the roads, can handle inclement New England weather, and is great on reliability. After having Hondas, which are so reliable, I'm a little scared about switching to any other make. However, I loved the ride on the Subaru, with its AWD. Can anyone who has owned a Subaru Outback wagon give me their opinions on reliability, chance of early rusting, durability of brakes, etc.?
You ought to be more than pleased with an Outback or Legacy L/GT. Every one built since 1993 has been above average in reliability, per Consumer Reports. That plus the carry a longer warranty than Honda does, 5/60 vs. 3/36 on the powertrain.
Double-galvanized steel is now used on panels susceptible to rust, so just touch-up any scratches and you should be fine.
Brake pads ought to give you anywhere from 40k to 120k miles, depending on how they are used. No different than other makes, really.
We have 3 Soobs in the family. My cousin traded her old Loyale for a '99 Outback, and even that old Soob is still with her nephew (it refuses to die). Dad has a 2001, and it sure is nice.
MPG city: 16-18 (16 low) MPG highway: 22-25 (29 high) (19-21 with cargo box) Problems: 1) Check engine light. Cause was an improperly thightened gas cap. Human error. 2) Drivers side door slightly sticking. Its not very bad and its not irritating me yet. Will have it checked out at either 25k oil change or at the 30k full checkup. Other than those two things. Its been trouble free in 12 months.
Other issues: The cabin air filter is a nightmare to change. Just to get the 2 little filters in there you basically have to take out the entire passenger side dash and glove compartment to do it. Its supposed to be done every 7500miles.
I am considering the LL Bean and the Volvo V70. Can you tell me your options before settling on the Subie? What made you decide on the Subie? What's your experience so far.
Hi Vudini, I needed AWD so XC V70 is the only option that was available for me. The difference is about $8K for "equally" equipped cars (I have almost **all** options available on LL and was comparing it to maxed out V70 XC). After this price analyses I didn't even go to drive test Volvo. It's a different category. The closest is VW Passat GLX 4Motion.
I had 3 WVs before (1990, 1998, 1999) .... never again....
Subaru should do this too.... You can call the BMW X5 anything you want. I guess they want you to call it an SUV. I call it minivan or wagon. A MOTT (Minivan On Tall Tires) like the DC/MB ML series. Well folks, its going to get an "M" version. 0-60 in 5sec range. Dont have hp numbers BUT Yea!!! Thats what I'm talking about. See all you nay sayers!!! The dream I had about a 5sec wagon/minivan was not just a dream. It was a vision. It is the future of high performance.
Not to be outdone....Porsche appears to have an answer. One of the Cayenne (also more wagon/hatchback/minivan than SUV) variants is supposed hit the streets with 450hp. Apparently they want the 4sec 0-60 range. How could you go wrong with that?
Either way the DC/MB ML is going to get dethroned as the king of minivans unless AMG has an answer......
I'm the original owner of a 96 cutback, 2.2L 5 speed, winter package, tweeter speaker kit. Live in Northern IL and travel frequently to Northern WI snow country. Now have 77K miles with no problems except replaced air conditioner compressor right after purchase (warranty). It did take three trips to the dealer to get it fixed right though. Thats all I've done except filters, oil, cooling system flush, and new plugs as recommended. Uses no oil.
Car is great in snow, never even close to being stuck. Just replaced the original Michelin at 76K. They still had some life but I load the Sub up (you can get a lot of stuff inside) and drive like hell so bought new Michelin for safety. Get an honest 25MPG,loaded at 75MPH and has been up to 27 on highway, never below 20 in town on regular gas! Wife thinks it's the best car we've ever owned. Haven't even plugged in the engine heater in -20F! Love the heated seats and standard stereo is great. ( I tend to keep my cars for 10 years or 150K miles unless they fall or rust apart first. This one may last well beyond that. I've become a strong believer in Sub reliability. Have looked at LLBean and DC for eventual replacement as a little more power would be nice maybe the 2.5L will do. Want 5 or 6 speed, DC for safety and don't need sun roof so I hope Sub builds the 3.0 with as above in the future and build it for regular gas. Obviously we like this car and will buy another Sub assuming they build what I want in the future!
My local Subaru dealer is very large dealer that deals..... He has plenty of LL BEans on the lot and believe me he would gladly sale them for 1 or 2 hundred over invoice. He said that all Suaru sales in this area are down especially the Beans. He said it is due to their high pricing. He feels Subaru will come out with rates and rebates very soon. You can buy an awfully nice SUV for not much more than the Bean. an LS Tahoe which isnt going to do much worse on gas and you can park the Bean inside it. Subaru needs to do something about the gap they have , Ipray they make a true full size or near truck or suv I will own the first one in my area but what they have now is just too small. I still keep my 97 OB Limited , in fact I gave it to My son to use while in college but traded the 2001 it was jsut too small, yeah I new it when I bought it but though we could make it work but one trip and that was all it took
nematode: the X5 is very, very expensive. The V8 model already starts at $40 grand, and sells for up to $50k! Imagine an M - probably $55-60k, there are condos at the beach for that kind of money!
Look at the WRX wagon - 227 hp for $23,500, and it'll reach 60 in under 6 sec and probably be much more nimble, all while it gets 20/27 mpg.
Other choices: S4 Avant. The RS4 would be too expensive also.
slipster: join us over in the Subaru Crew topics under Owners Clubs. Something tells me you'll fit in.
Paul: the same dealer that sells that LL Bean for $27.2k sells Tahoes. Their cheapest 4X4 is $35,656, or more than $8 grand more than the quicker H6.
Mileage on the H6 is a remarkable 20/27mpg, while that Tahoe gets an awful 14/17. It's bigger, but you pay for it at the purchase and at the pump.
I think Drew can answer this better, but isn't there an AMG ML55 or something like that with BMW "M"-type specs? The only reason I don't have one is because it's just a wee bit outside my budget... :-)
In the Bean variant my mostly highway cruising last weekend got me 23mpg over 180miles. I get about 24mpg doing the same thing with my wifes 2.5L. Most people here get about 23mpg with the OB 2.5L mostly highway. Thats my only major complaint about the car. The gas mileage is just plain crummy. My bet is that the H6 actual mpg is 17city/24highway or similar to the Passat 4Mo. Subarus must run more efficiently on dynos...at least thats where I think they get those numbers. Who knows???
In my opnion neither one lives up to the inflated 27/28mpg highway ranges. Also, I'm well below 20mpg in the city with the 2.5L. Still its much better than a large SUV. BUT not as good as the 27-28mpg in the C5 Corvette 6spd that geared super tall.
A previous post mentioned that there seem to a lot of LL Bean editions on Subaru lots. I did notice that too when I went to pick up my cabin filters. Either they are selling well and need a lot on hand or they are sitting there and not selling. I dont know which and I guess its too early for sales numbers. I do know that in the Philadelphia/NJ area they are already selling for $300 over invoice. Thats a pretty good deal for all the stuff in that car. I really thought they would maintain their prices longer. You can bet the WRX versions will.
That's correct. The EPA puts them on the dyno and then simulates driving conditions.
Consumer Reports publishes actual test results for city/highway driving, and they're usually a lot worse than your figures.
If you read the long-term Edmunds tests, many SUVs get 12mpg on occasion (XTerra, Escape) and average 14-15mpg.
You may get an improvement with time, since your engine is still green. Still, what you're getting is vastly superior to what a similarly sized SUV would get.
I don't know why, but Foresters seem to do better than Outbacks. I'm still around 25mpg despite the freezing temps, and some people break 30mpg on trips.
I'm seriously thinking about buying this car with 35,000 miles on it. I have to drive 200 miles per day 3x a week. The price is negotiable starting from $18k. I've also looked at an 1997 318i BMW with 35k miles on it ($20k and a 1997 900s SAAB, 16.5k). Any recommendations as to which way I should go? Including counteroffer? Thanks for your help!!
The Outback will give you all-season traction and tons of cargo room. It's reliable and hence ought to be the most practical among the three. It's all wheel drive, as are all Soobs.
The Bimmer will be fun to drive. Not quick with that 4 banger, but still fun. It's a bit cramped inside, with much less room for cargo. If you don't need the room, well, I'd still search for a 325i. They're rear wheel drive, so if you get a lot of snow, think twice.
The Saab splits the difference. If it has the base engine it'll only have 150hp, so it won't be particularly quick (or as reliable as the Soob). The hatchback design is practical and it has more interior room than the Bimmer. They're front wheel drive.
You'll be driving a LOT of miles, so sit in each and see if you can really get comfy. My guess is mileage and acceleration are relatively similar, so pick the one you're most comfortable in.
-juice
PS Interesting the variety of choices. Sedan vs. hatchback vs. wagon, and then RWD vs. AWD vs. FWD too! You may want to narrow it down to vehicle type first! ;-)
I know I'm all over the map. I'm battling practicality vs 35 year old wish list syndrome. My wife drives an Xterra and we have a fifteen year old daughter.
The BMW has certification to 100 miles and comes from a BMW dealer. The SAAB also comes from a dealer. The Soob comes from a person-to-person thing - I don't know if I can get the extended warranty after the fact.
What is most confusing is the price. Edmunds puts the suggest price at around $12k. The start asking price from this person is $18k. Could Edmunds be that far off?
$12k sounds low for an Outback, which have excellent resale value.
I'd keep shopping if the price seems high. If you have an XTerra, I'd suggest something small and better on gas mileage, so that it serves different purposes.
What about a new Impreza 2.5RS? Or a Protoge? Sentra SE? A sporty new small car may do the trick.
Juice you made excellent points regarding cost and fuel milage regarding the tahoe some other points, Paul would take a bigger hit at trade in as the Tahoe depreciates like a stone while the sube keeps a very high residual I know this from my search for a good used one the resale is downright scary,2nd. point GM. still does not know how to paint cars. Look at any two year old GM. and it will be chipped and flaking all over especially front edge of hood and around rear wheel wells. Cheers Pat.
Juice I do not know if it is a fair comparison, in my research of used prices here in Ottawa Canada I am finding that 98 outback Ltd with around 35000 miles dealers are asking around $23500 to $25000 so that would be roughly $17500US. Cheers Pat.
Comments
This is for the Australian perspective. Our distances, once you get past the major urban areas, are similar to your less settled areas, only we have longer distances and fewer people (we can out-Texan Texans).
My Outback now has 40000km (25000ml) without any need to lift the bonnet outside checking fluid levels. This may be tempting fate to comment on its reliability but I have had absolutely no breakdowns to date.
Regular servicing is necessary but Subarus have an exceptional reputation in outback Australia where they are about the third most popular vehicle after Toyota landcruisers and Holden utilities.
I previously ran a Mercedes which ultimately broke down six times in seven days. As cars these days are a whole lot more complicated than twenty years ago, roadside fixes are harder to figure out and there is something immensely depressing about standing fixing a car in snow, wearing a business suit. You don't want to be there, you are not getting paid for it and it's something you are not expert at.
One of the great joys of owning the Subaru is its absolute reliability. There are many tales of them lasting 200,000 or 300,000 miles with no significant problems.
Mind you, I keep a membership of a Roadside Service Agency (automobile club) just in case something goes wrong. I figure that it is cheap insurance.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Graham
My another car (additionally to 2001 L.L.Bean) is 2000 Infiniti G20 and it will have to be replaced in couple of years. I will be looking at something Forester-like. Currently, I decided on Toyota Highlander V6 AWD. Does anybody know about coming Forester replacement due to in 2003/2004? Any information will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Nikita.
I expect it to be a tad larger, and perhaps offer a performance engine to boot. The H-6? Maybe, but I suspect it might be the supercharged H-4 they showed in the ST-X concept pickup. My gut feeling is they want to keep the H-6 strictly for the Outbacks, and perhaps Legacys too.
Bob
Dirt - I do not expect to use the roadside service from Subaru, CAA or anyone else. We only ever needed it once on our Mercury Tracer (aka Mazda 323) in 12 years and 210,000 km. I don't think many would disagree that for the last 20 years or so Japanese engineered cars have been streets ahead of American and European cars in their reliability.
Dirt: you can take duct tape and some tools but I doubt you'd ever use them.
Nikita: the Impreza got a 1.5" wheelbase stretch, so my guess is the Forester will get at least that much bigger. I expect it'll get a bit more to differentiate itself from the Outback (more power, low range maybe, more ground clearance, etc).
-juice
Bob
Does anyone have problem 00 or 01 out pulling to one side, either left or right ? My pulls to the left slightly to the left.
I have checked tire pressures and they are within Outback specs.
Please help
thank
rwm
My 2k Outback pulled to the left right out of the box. A wheel alignment didn't solve the problem. I had previously experienced the same problem with new tires on my other car (that dealer called it a tire pull) and it was solved by switching the front tires from side to side. Therefore, I asked the Subaru dealer to do the same thing and this solved my problem. So you might want to give it a try. One thing though, in the future you can only rotate your tires from front to back on the same side or the problem could come back.
Hope it works....Tom
I'll bring my Outback for it first oil change next week and will ask the service tech to switch the front tires from side to side and hope this will solve the pulling problem.
rwm
Stephen
Cheers,
-wdb
Alignment is tricky on Soobs.
-juice
Can't say I have any experience with Ogden Subaru, but I'll ask a friend of mine w/ an Impreza who lives in Layton. If you're willing to drive 30 miles or so, I've been dealing with Mark Miller in SLC. I leased my first Subaru there and I'm going back for my second. In fact, I'm using the same salesperson! Another friend of mine bought his Subaru from Nate Wade. You may be able to get a better price from them than you could from Mark Miller (both my friend's experience and mine). However, I like the service I get from Mark Miller and will stay with them (for now :-).
Good luck!
-Dan
I'm pretty set on a Base Outback Wagon but now I see the Legacy GT Wagon comes with dual moonroofs -- a plus for my wife. I'm sure you OB lovers prefer the suspension on the Outback but, considering the fact that 90% of our driving is in the city, maybe we should look at the Legacy GT Wagon.
We spend about a month a year in the Texas Hill Country and most of that driving is on paved roads. Seldom do we encounter a dirt road. We're just not "off-roaders." Sometimes we encounter a low water bridge with about four inches of water. Ground clearance is 6.3 in the Legacy and 7.3 in the Outback. Is this a big difference? I see both cars have LSD.
Another consideration is headroom. The Outback has 40.2 as opposed to 38.5 in the Legacy GT.
Your thoughts, please?
Time is a factor here. I need to make this purchase in the next few days. Please email your advice to me at: shavens@flash.net.
Thanks!
Sam
One thing to keep in mind is that even with the extra ground clearance, the OB was never meant to be an off-roading vehicle. The extra ground clearance and suspension travel give you an extra margin for light duty offroading.
For most people, I think it really boils down to which "look" you like better. The cladding and dual tone color of the OB gives it a more "outdoorsy" look. The ground effects and monotone paint of the GT makes it look sportier.
Given the kind of driving you explained above, I personally would go with the GT for it's sportier ride and better handling in addition to the moonroofs.
Ken
The GT is the way to go. Sounds like you don't really need the extras the OB offers. The bonus is that the GT wagon has the twin roofs while the base Outback does not (only the Limited does), so you can get it for less moolah.
My dad has a 2001 Outback Limited and it's sweet. I've ridden in the back and the 2nd moonroof is very unselfish of the driver.
I'd either do that or wait for a WRX wagon. :-)
-juice
http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-7412-BACE6BB-39C393E8-prod1
bit
-juice
-John
I'm thinking of buying an Outback. Primary reasons are for snow mobility (in the Sierra Nevada/Lake Tahoe and the Rockies/Denver areas) and also use on dirt roads. My understanding is that the Outback comes with all-weather tires. From peoples experience, are these adequate for this type of use or should I be looking to get a set of snow/all-terrain tires?
Thanks
Jeremy
Re GT vs. OB: the difference in headroom is the moonroof. If you get an OB with a moonroof it will have the same headroom as the GT with moonroof. For your described driving the ground clearance will not matter a bit. I personally like the monochromatic GT, and you definitely will not see yourself coming and going out on the road. Go for uniqueness, get the GT.
Cheers,
-wdb
I am awaiting delivery of a 2001 Outback Wagon (with some excitement). Having previously gotten helpful feedback prior to ordering (leather seats, etc.), I am back to ask about an extended warranty. My wife and I tend to hold onto cars for a long time, and certainly feel that this will be case for our Wagon. Given this, does anyone have any experience/thoughts about getting an extended warranty? Do I have to get at purchase time, or can I add one later (undoubtably for more)? I have faith in the reliability of Soobs, but more than 6-8 years is a fair time for any car. Cheers
Extended warranties are, IMHO, a total waste of money. Especially when it's money spent on a Subaru. Normally, the amount that the extended warranty will cost you will almost never be more than the money it will cost you to keep up the vehicle after the regular warranty runs out. Now throw in the fact that it's a Subaru, whose reliability is world-reknowned, and I really doubt you'll ever use the extended warranty. I'd pass on it, but it's up to you.
You are right, though. You can get one later from a third party, but it will cost you more.
For the kind of snow you're likely to see, a winter set is a wise investment, and some are $400-600 or so. You may not want all that salt and road grim on the nice 16" alloys anyway.
You could always wait, though. See how it does, then order a set if you think you need it.
Stihl: you'll spend about $1000 for an extended warranty from Subaru. From my contact with SoA, you're better off with the one from Subaru, vs. having to fight a third party to reimburse you for stuff. You'll get red carpet treatment even before the normal warranty is up, too.
Is it worth it? They profit from it, or they wouldn't sell it, but you're buying piece of mind, and only you can determine if it's worth that.
-juice
Our family has a '93 Honda Civic Hatchback, which is a really tiny car. We're looking for another car that's safe on the roads, can handle inclement New England weather, and is great on reliability. After having Hondas, which are so reliable, I'm a little scared about switching to any other make. However, I loved the ride on the Subaru, with its AWD. Can anyone who has owned a Subaru Outback wagon give me their opinions on reliability, chance of early rusting, durability of brakes, etc.?
Thanks!
artemis2
Double-galvanized steel is now used on panels susceptible to rust, so just touch-up any scratches and you should be fine.
Brake pads ought to give you anywhere from 40k to 120k miles, depending on how they are used. No different than other makes, really.
We have 3 Soobs in the family. My cousin traded her old Loyale for a '99 Outback, and even that old Soob is still with her nephew (it refuses to die). Dad has a 2001, and it sure is nice.
-juice
MPG highway: 22-25 (29 high) (19-21 with cargo box)
Problems:
1) Check engine light. Cause was an improperly thightened gas cap. Human error.
2) Drivers side door slightly sticking. Its not very bad and its not irritating me yet. Will have it checked out at either 25k oil change or at the 30k full checkup.
Other than those two things. Its been trouble free in 12 months.
Other issues:
The cabin air filter is a nightmare to change. Just to get the 2 little filters in there you basically have to take out the entire passenger side dash and glove compartment to do it. Its supposed to be done every 7500miles.
I am considering the LL Bean and the Volvo V70. Can you tell me your options before settling on the Subie? What made you decide on the Subie? What's your experience so far.
Thanks.
Vudini
I needed AWD so XC V70 is the only option that was available for me. The difference is about $8K for "equally" equipped cars (I have almost **all** options available on LL and was comparing it to maxed out V70 XC).
After this price analyses I didn't even go to drive test Volvo. It's a different category. The closest is VW Passat GLX 4Motion.
I had 3 WVs before (1990, 1998, 1999) .... never again....
http://www.fitzmall.com/
They have H6 LL Bean models for $27.2k and that includes freight.
I think you'll find that's a good 10 grand less than the Volvo.
-juice
You can call the BMW X5 anything you want. I guess they want you to call it an SUV. I call it minivan or wagon. A MOTT (Minivan On Tall Tires) like the DC/MB ML series. Well folks, its going to get an "M" version. 0-60 in 5sec range. Dont have hp numbers BUT Yea!!! Thats what I'm talking about. See all you nay sayers!!! The dream I had about a 5sec wagon/minivan was not just a dream. It was a vision. It is the future of high performance.
Not to be outdone....Porsche appears to have an answer. One of the Cayenne (also more wagon/hatchback/minivan than SUV) variants is supposed hit the streets with 450hp. Apparently they want the 4sec 0-60 range. How could you go wrong with that?
Either way the DC/MB ML is going to get dethroned as the king of minivans unless AMG has an answer......
Car is great in snow, never even close to being stuck. Just replaced the original Michelin at 76K. They still had some life but I load the Sub up (you can get a lot of stuff inside) and drive like hell so bought new Michelin for safety. Get an honest 25MPG,loaded at 75MPH and has been up to 27 on highway, never below 20 in town on regular gas! Wife thinks it's the best car we've ever owned. Haven't even plugged in the engine heater in -20F! Love the heated seats and standard stereo is great. (
I tend to keep my cars for 10 years or 150K miles unless they fall or rust apart first. This one may last well beyond that. I've become a strong believer in Sub reliability.
Have looked at LLBean and DC for eventual replacement as a little more power would be nice maybe the 2.5L will do. Want 5 or 6 speed, DC for safety and don't need sun roof so I hope Sub builds the 3.0 with as above in the future and build it for regular gas.
Obviously we like this car and will buy another Sub assuming they build what I want in the future!
Look at the WRX wagon - 227 hp for $23,500, and it'll reach 60 in under 6 sec and probably be much more nimble, all while it gets 20/27 mpg.
Other choices: S4 Avant. The RS4 would be too expensive also.
slipster: join us over in the Subaru Crew topics under Owners Clubs. Something tells me you'll fit in.
Paul: the same dealer that sells that LL Bean for $27.2k sells Tahoes. Their cheapest 4X4 is $35,656, or more than $8 grand more than the quicker H6.
Mileage on the H6 is a remarkable 20/27mpg, while that Tahoe gets an awful 14/17. It's bigger, but you pay for it at the purchase and at the pump.
-juice
-Dan
Ouch.
-juice
In my opnion neither one lives up to the inflated 27/28mpg highway ranges. Also, I'm well below 20mpg in the city with the 2.5L. Still its much better than a large SUV. BUT not as good as the 27-28mpg in the C5 Corvette 6spd that geared super tall.
A previous post mentioned that there seem to a lot of LL Bean editions on Subaru lots. I did notice that too when I went to pick up my cabin filters. Either they are selling well and need a lot on hand or they are sitting there and not selling. I dont know which and I guess its too early for sales numbers. I do know that in the Philadelphia/NJ area they are already selling for $300 over invoice. Thats a pretty good deal for all the stuff in that car. I really thought they would maintain their prices longer. You can bet the WRX versions will.
Consumer Reports publishes actual test results for city/highway driving, and they're usually a lot worse than your figures.
If you read the long-term Edmunds tests, many SUVs get 12mpg on occasion (XTerra, Escape) and average 14-15mpg.
You may get an improvement with time, since your engine is still green. Still, what you're getting is vastly superior to what a similarly sized SUV would get.
I don't know why, but Foresters seem to do better than Outbacks. I'm still around 25mpg despite the freezing temps, and some people break 30mpg on trips.
-juice
Bob
Thanks for your help!!
The Outback will give you all-season traction and tons of cargo room. It's reliable and hence ought to be the most practical among the three. It's all wheel drive, as are all Soobs.
The Bimmer will be fun to drive. Not quick with that 4 banger, but still fun. It's a bit cramped inside, with much less room for cargo. If you don't need the room, well, I'd still search for a 325i. They're rear wheel drive, so if you get a lot of snow, think twice.
The Saab splits the difference. If it has the base engine it'll only have 150hp, so it won't be particularly quick (or as reliable as the Soob). The hatchback design is practical and it has more interior room than the Bimmer. They're front wheel drive.
You'll be driving a LOT of miles, so sit in each and see if you can really get comfy. My guess is mileage and acceleration are relatively similar, so pick the one you're most comfortable in.
-juice
PS Interesting the variety of choices. Sedan vs. hatchback vs. wagon, and then RWD vs. AWD vs. FWD too! You may want to narrow it down to vehicle type first! ;-)
The BMW has certification to 100 miles and comes from a BMW dealer. The SAAB also comes from a dealer. The Soob comes from a person-to-person thing - I don't know if I can get the extended warranty after the fact.
What is most confusing is the price. Edmunds puts the suggest price at around $12k. The start asking price from this person is $18k. Could Edmunds be that far off?
Thanks!
I'd keep shopping if the price seems high. If you have an XTerra, I'd suggest something small and better on gas mileage, so that it serves different purposes.
What about a new Impreza 2.5RS? Or a Protoge? Sentra SE? A sporty new small car may do the trick.
-juice
Look at any two year old GM. and it will be chipped and flaking all over especially front edge of hood and around rear wheel wells.
Cheers Pat.
Cheers Pat.
I should get commission!
-juice