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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Could it be a reverse auction? Looks like it to me! Does anyone have any history with this site?

    This site was even featured on NBC Today Show.

    Link to the story...

    http://www.checkbook.org/auto/todayshow.cfm

    Here is what the site claims Consumerfed.org did for them...

    WE DID AN ACTUAL PRICE COMPARISON OVER THE INTERNET. WHAT DID WE FIND?

    We picked 12 popular cars and went to three different types of sites: Greenlight/Amazon, Carsdirect and Carbargains. In 10 out of the 12, Carbargains.org had the lowest prices, saving an average of nine percent off of the retail price. Carsdirect.com saved seven percent off retail and Greenlight.com saved six percent.

    According to the site they pick 5 local dealers in your area and have them compete against each other by providing bids.
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    As of last night the dealer backed out of the transaction. The dealer tried to force the contract but as soon as the buyer mentioned she had a bad taste in her mouth and would be more than happy to inform people around the base about her misfortune he immediately offered to tear up the contract. Bottom line is the $1000 was refunded, the dealer took the car back made the customer happy and saved his reputation.

    Exactly what I would of done!
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Give me a fax number and I will prove 4.25 to you!

    5% and up with a 750 or better? Now that sounds fishy. I do agree that rates could be higher in your area compared to mine but a 750 credit score? On average the credit unions I deal with range from 700-720 to get the lowest rate. I direct alot of business to Penfed.org which is located in Virginia. Check out the site. They currently offer 3.59 and up!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,628
    My credit union is offering 3.9% up to 60 months.. I just checked.. 4.9% for 72 months. This is for new cars.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    EDIT: Just looked again.. This includes new AND used cars.

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  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ...... ** but a 750 credit score? ** ..

                  Bill, stop the drama .. a high score doesn't guarantee anything .. College students with a Burdines charge and 6 months of part-time work at Publix can get a 680/700/720 score .... not counting today, how long have you "really" been in the biz - not too long based on your last 20/30 posts .. have you tried the Better Homes and Garden forum.? .. you might get better play there.

                            Terry.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,348
    what did Checkbook.org do with all the cars that they bought?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    You said...Bill, stop the drama

    Terry not dramatizing anything. I find it hard to believe you need a 750 or better to get the lowest rate. I am not saying it does not happen. All I am saying is 700-720 with good debt to ratio does guarantee a low rate where I am from.

    Bill
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Then stop calling me a liar! Either provide me with you fax number or suck it up!
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Like I said I agree maybe in your area or should I say maybe in your F&I office but not in my area. And again I can prove it to you Drift.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    "does guarantee a low rate where I am from."

    sure it does...but not the best rates.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    yeah, dude...so you can blow up my fax machine with reverse auction solicitations.
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Yes the best rate if you was to shop our credit unions in this area. For example one credit union only offers 4.25 as the lowest rate. Another offers 3.95 as the lowest rate. I have talked to both of them just as I have other credit unions in the area and none of them said you must have over a 720 to get their lowest rate.

    Bill
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    you obviously don't know that there's a difference between credit unions and automotive lenders, like GMAC, Ford and regular banks.

    Credit unions will do loans that are pretty straightforward - automotive lenders can be "worked" by the F&I guy.
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    You guys are paranoid! :) I have been trying to be nice but you guys are the ones who never give up. I did not say anything about reverse auctions until I ran across carbargains.org! By the way how come no one is complaining about their website. Its looks to me like its a reverse auction and car buyers and dealers alike seem to be using the site.

    Bill
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Of course I know the difference. And if a car buyer can save a point or two by using GMAC credit as long as they have a 750 score or better and the rebates plays no part well then by all means take it. From what I see a MAJORITY of new car buyers do not have a score that high. Alot of the elite credit tier customers falls within the 700-730 range.

    Plus we all know on alot not all but alot of models you can do better by taking the rebates and the low rate the credit union has offered to you.

    Its really just a matter of sitting down and doing the math.
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Another insult by the driftman! Feel better now?
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    our special friendship you I possess for each other lol. :) Or its just you get so worked up you must put your 2 cents in.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,628
    Mackabee never did finish that story he started back in February..

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  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    And that is exactly my point. Finish the story! Don't back out of it until your point has been PROVEN! Without debate bowke boards like these would cease to exist.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    ive proven my point over and over and over and over and over and over ad nauseum, and you seem to refuse to accept facts that discount your opinions. im tired of proving my point and getting nowhere.

    debate is one thing, but beating my head against a brick wall like yours is futile and not fun nor informative.
  • rampedramped Member Posts: 358
    Let's switch gears for a sec. Saw over on the Altima board that you pushed an 05 out the door at invoice, and another at MSRP this week.

    My question is, at what point in the negotiation do you realize that an individual will be willing to pay MSRP? My second question is, how do you hide the smile from your face before you get the signature on the contract? :<)
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    there are a few ways to get to a sticker deal:

    1. payments

    if a customer wants a payment that allows MSRP to be the price.

    2. no negotiation

    sometimes people just say "ok".

    3. make up the difference with the trade

    if they negotiate a deal at $500 off sticker, i can hold $500 of the trade to make up for it.

    when i present figures, i always start at MSRP and ask: "when would you like to take delivery?"

    if they want to negotiate, the reply will be "as soon as the price is right"

    if not, then they will say "right now."
  • mitzijmitzij Member Posts: 613
    Our sales manager says we have alot of customers he calls 'GETME's.(GETME a Cookiemobile, GETME a Fudgebuggie) These people are less worried about price than the average buyer. I daresay many of these types are paying MSRP or close to it.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    "Get me done" - they just need a new(er) vehicle and have some cash down -
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    is also a precursor to "GETMEDONE"

    those that cant finance a glass of water with 90% down.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    was a getmedone - they came into our FLM dealership and looked at a used Camaro RS - I asked them what they were looking for in financial arrangements, they said they'd make payments - I asked how long they wanted to finance for - they didn't know - I asked what their monthly budget allowed - they didn't know. Taking a shot in the dark, I threw out (broke the rules) "what about $500 a month" - they said "OK".

    I ran into the SM's office with people landed on the Camaro at $500 a month, later to find out that they would have signed at $750, since they really had no intention of MAKING the payments.

    Why start now? They hadn't paid anyone yet!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Edmunds may not have an "ignore" function, but we do. It's called the scroll wheel on your mouse.

    Mine has been getting a pretty good workout since Bill burst on the scene.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    leave the "i dont like SUVs" board because i went through scroll buttons like water...lol.
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Now you guys are talking about how to rip people off in a PUBLIC forum. You guys never cease to amaze me!

    As I mentioned before this new topic of yours is exactly why ALOT of dealers have a bad reputation. Do one customer good by releasing the car at invoice then turn around and sell the same unit to a uneducated payment buyer at sticker. Hmmm Hope they didn't know each other!

    Anyways bowke when you broke in making no sense at all we were discussing credit scores and interest rates. So exactly what did you prove again? From what I read you only posted 1 reply on this topic.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    as much as you try to be, you arte not the center of this discussion. another member asked me a direct question about MSRP sales.

    as far as ripping people off, dont you EVER use that term again about me. if a person asks to buy the car at a payment, then they are obviously comfortable with that payment, and dont care what price it is.

    a wise man once told me:

    "keith, if you dont get paid, then the guy down the street will."

    BTW, they were not the same unit. one was a base 2.5s and the other was a 3.5se.
  • ldbrickerldbricker Member Posts: 140
    the goal is to sell the least product for the most money. To do anything else would be foolish and failing one's fiduciary responsibility. "Gee, Mr. Shareholder, I'm sorry you didn't make an ROI this year but a guy on a forum said it was wrong for us to sell at retail and we could only sell at invoice."

    As a buyer the goal is to buy the most product for the least money. Somewhere in between is an agreeable medium where a transaction can take place.

    If someone sits down and says I'd like to have that and will pay $xxx a month then we're going to work numbers based on $xxx a month, provided that's a workable number. If a MSRP sale works out to $xxx minus $27 a month then we're going to present them with a monthly that's $27 lower than they anticipated and they are going to be happy campers. RARELY happens that way but when it does it's nice.
  • racer63racer63 Member Posts: 83
    most auto sales professionals love payment buyers.

    All sorts of places to hide money, both in the selling price and the financing. Bill, why is this such of a surprise to you? Thought ya knew the busyness through and through? Or is feigning ignorance just an act, and they'll be a follow up attempt to come back all smarty? I'm all for maximizing profit. I do it in my business.

    If John or Jean Q. Public doing the deal doesn't have enough smarts to realize where the ketchup, relish and mustard is hidden on the weinie and bun, I don't have any sympathy if they get themselves fleeced buying the Gottahavit GT, even though there's a 180 day supply of them on the ground

    A perfect example that had that kind of immediate need for wheels, was Mr. Contour in Tennessee on whatever news show a few weeks ago, that signed a deal with a long term 23% interest rate. I for one can't imagine how they make it through life whole if buying and financing a car is such a challenge, even with all the up-to-date consumer info floating around.

    Can't save people from themselves.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,628
    Scroll wheel is also good for any posts over two paragraphs. I might be missing something important in there, but I doubt it.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • butchbr73butchbr73 Member Posts: 325
    ahh, that's what it is for.

    It looks like it will get a lot of use on this board! Thanks guys! :)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,348
    no 2 deals are identical, the same way that no 2 cars are. You also can't generalize among all models of a car line. For instance, last year I looked at the Accord coupe V6. Plenty of ATs, attractivley priced, but a real shortage of 6 speeds, which were MSRP pretty much.

    In the Nissan example, big difference between a 2.5 and 3.5.

    Retail sales in cars (and houses, etc.) is a negotiation based effort. As Isell likes to point out, the price is right on the car (MSRP). If you think that is too high, offer something else. Just because a dealer cheap-sold a unit for some reason (EOM, bonus for 1 more, sun spots) doesn't mean that everyone that walks in the door gets offered the same price right away.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    I agree with you. And I am not saying you shouldn't sell to someone who doesn't care about money! Bottom line though you can tell the wealthy from the clueless. Problem is so many people come in and buy on impulse and all they can see is a new car regardless of cost. They have no clue how the negotiation process works. Believe me I have seen it over and over. Everyday I refer people to the credit union to refinance their vehicle because they signed a contract with a dealer 2 or 3 points higher than were they should be financing at. Alot of buyers are clueless plain and simple. Is it your fault that they didn't do their homework? Of course not. But you must realize that people will figure it out sooner or later what happened to them especially when they go to trade in their vehicle and they owe WAY more than what the car is worth. Now they have a bad taste in their mouth. And what happens when they have bad taste. Rumors start to fly. Now you just lost many potential customers because they feel you might rip them off.

    I am all for making a buck. All I am trying to say is you guys put yourself in this position by letting units go for such a low price. Then you get excited when you do sell one for a higher price not realizing what kind of damage it could do to you in the long run.

    Pay attention to who your selling to!
  • bill100bill100 Member Posts: 175
    Again perfect example why car dealers have a bad reputation. Also another perfect example as to why Dateline did a story.
  • tornado25tornado25 Member Posts: 267
    "Gee, Mr. Shareholder, I'm sorry you didn't make an ROI this year but a guy on a forum said it was wrong for us to sell at retail and we could only sell at invoice."

    This quote is a great example of what is being talked about when you wonder about one car at MSRP and another at invoice. I mean, sincerely, to me, you sound absolutely ridiculous with a statement such as "Do one customer good by releasing the car at invoice then turn around and sell the same unit to a uneducated payment buyer at sticker. Hmmm Hope they didn't know each other!".

    You claim to have knowledge of the auto business, a partner that was a dealer or a salesperson (or whatever) and that you are starting a site to bring buyers and sellers together. I claim no such knowledge. The closest I've got is one of my best friends was a good car salesman, about 18 years ago. Yet, it seems I KNOW more than you about how it really works. You honestly believe that a business should sell its product at invoice? Why? And why do you ASSUME that the MSRP buyer is uneducated? Maybe he doesn't care. He knows an MSRP deal is written up more or less instantly. Maybe to him, his time it too valuable. No matter the reason, what difference does it make? MSRP is THE price. No one is getting ripped off, because that guy can always say no.

    I absolutely refuse absolve people of responsiblity for anything because they didn't know or they screwed me. For every person who buys an MSRP unit, that's one more invoice unit the dealer can sell to me, the one who took the time to research the price and is willing to spend a little time to get that price.

    I'm getting the feeling that the proper grammar is why this isn't getting through to you.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Anything new out there?

    Questions for a Car Dealer?

    Anyone...?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It's always easy to see when a poster has never owned their own business or has been responsible for a P & L.

    You are wasting your breath, I'm afraid, since he continues to embarass himself.
  • I am in the process of buying my first new car and I've been surprised at the variety of pricing strategies. At a Subaru dealership, the salesperson offered to write me a quote on a 2004 WRX and immediately made a comment like "well, there is about $1750 markup in the MSRP, so subtract that, and there's a $750 rebate also..."

    I had a similar experience at a Mazda dealership on a Mazda 3. Conversely, a Honda dealer I visited basically said "make me an offer".

    Is the Subaru guy just being nice, or is there more to the story here?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ........ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ... sorry Isell, I musta fallin' asleep again .. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz .......... wake me when it's over ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ......
  • jasmith52jasmith52 Member Posts: 462
    OK:

    Here's a topic that I thought was interesting (I saw it over on the SUV board).

    and that was that real-world gas mileage for the new generation hybrids wasn't anywhere near the published EPA numbers. They gave some examples (tested scientifically) of a Honda Civic hybrid with a 47 mpg EPA city estimate that was only getting 30 or so miles per gal in a real world test. The numbers for the Toyota Prius were also less than two thirds of the published mileage.

    With these kind of numbers the case for a hybrid is much harder to make, even at todays gas prices.

    Any comments ?? Have you had any customer feedback along those lines ??
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    the subie guy sounds like a greenpea thats struggling. he just wants to roll units. the honda guy sounds like he is a little more professional.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,628
    I think it is sometime the advertising/sales practices at that dealer ship. There is a local Subaru dealer ship that advertises the exact same thing. $750 rebate plus $1750 off MSRP for $2500 off any WRX. Any person that can read can get that deal. Nationally, Honda advertises leases that assume $1500 or more off of MSRP.

    Mazda dealers.. One dealer in town advertises "up to" $2500 off a Mazda 3, while another dealer advertises $955 off of MSRP for the same car.

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  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    Perhaps someone can riddle me this.

    I'm leasing a Subaru, standard 36 month lease, planning to turn in at lease end and either lease another Subaru or buy one. Love the car, all is well. I was treated well during the negotiation process, no time was wasted, and I'll likely work with them again. My question concerns service on the vehicle.

    I have been having all service done at the dealership I leased it from...not that it's been much, just oil changes, tire rotation, that kind of thing. This dealer has a sheet they give all new customers called the "dealer recommended service schedule". No surprise there, it has several items that aren't part of Subaru's recommended schedule. OK, extras that won't hurt the car to do, but are mostly profit centers for the dealership. I understand that, and don't generally have a problem with it.

    Here's what bugs me. The service department KNOWS I'm leasing this car. Since it goes back in two years or so, I figure there's no great pressing need for me to authorize all of the extra stuff to be done on the car beyond Subaru's recommended schedule. It's not like I'm planning to keep the car for 10 years. The service department keeps questioning why I don't go with their schedule. I mean, they act like I'm nuts for not going along with it.

    They do fine work, and getting appointments is not a problem. I'm happy with what they do, workwise, but this insistence on using the dealer schedule is getting very annoying.

    This almost becomes a battle when I bring it in. I've actually written a letter to the dealer complaining about the attempted "hard sale" of extra service, but no response.

    They might be costing themselves the next car I get if they keep it up. Beyond picking up extra profit, any ideas as to why a dealer would keep trying this bonehead manuever? Am I in the wrong here somehow?

    So how's that for a change of pace, guys?

    -Dan-
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    nice to have one for a change...lol.

    i think the dealer employees are simply trained that way. let me ask you...do you deal with the same service writer every time?

    if not, then try to do so. if you keep getting a different guy every time, then its no fault of theirs for pitching a sale.

    make sure you ask for the ssame guy each time...this way they can remember you for the future.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,628
    It is like getting the oil change from jiffy lube.

    "No, I don't need the differential fluid changed."

    "No, I don't need new wiper blades."

    "No, I don't need synthetic motor oil."

    "No, I don't need a new air filter."

    "No, I don't want to supersize it."

    It IS annoying, but it is just a sales job. You seem to have a good handle on why they are doing it. You just have to learn to let it go. It is intimidating getting your car worked on, because (at least in my case), you realize that they know more than you do, and don't always have your best financial interest at heart.

    Just smile... and say NO

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Everytime gas prices hit a high (like over $2 here in Chicago), I decide that I am going to "do something about it.

    The first year, I decided that I would take the train 11 miles to work OW. That would require me to walk one mile from home to the station and one mile from the train station to work. So I did it. For ONE DAY. Cost $5.50. I figure that the variable costs on the grandmamobile runs between .14-.15 per mile so I was spending twice as much about $3-3.50 a day to commute. Not a smart decision.

    The second year, I decided that I would sell the grandmamobile and pick up one of those small cars so that I would move up from 26 mpg to 35 mpg. Assuming 18k miles and $2 gas, the savings would be about $350. Again, just not worth it.

    I figure that if I plan my trips better, I could shave about 10% of my driving and get about half the savings.

    Now if those darn pharmacists ...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That dealer shouldn't be pressuring you to step up the maintenance on that Subie.

    A lot of people who lease plan to buy out the lease at the end and keep the car. In that case, a little extra care can be a good thing.

    The service reccomendations in the owner's manual spell out the MINIMUM service required. a lot of people like to take better care of their cars than that however. As a lessor, you are only responsible for what the book says to do.

    In my own case, I own my cars but I usually change the oil every 3500-4000 miles even though the book says 7500. I do other PM ahead of schedule too but that's me. Probably a waste of money but old habits are hard to break.
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