Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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This site was even featured on NBC Today Show.
Link to the story...
http://www.checkbook.org/auto/todayshow.cfm
Here is what the site claims Consumerfed.org did for them...
WE DID AN ACTUAL PRICE COMPARISON OVER THE INTERNET. WHAT DID WE FIND?
We picked 12 popular cars and went to three different types of sites: Greenlight/Amazon, Carsdirect and Carbargains. In 10 out of the 12, Carbargains.org had the lowest prices, saving an average of nine percent off of the retail price. Carsdirect.com saved seven percent off retail and Greenlight.com saved six percent.
According to the site they pick 5 local dealers in your area and have them compete against each other by providing bids.
Exactly what I would of done!
5% and up with a 750 or better? Now that sounds fishy. I do agree that rates could be higher in your area compared to mine but a 750 credit score? On average the credit unions I deal with range from 700-720 to get the lowest rate. I direct alot of business to Penfed.org which is located in Virginia. Check out the site. They currently offer 3.59 and up!
regards,
kyfdx
EDIT: Just looked again.. This includes new AND used cars.
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Bill, stop the drama .. a high score doesn't guarantee anything .. College students with a Burdines charge and 6 months of part-time work at Publix can get a 680/700/720 score .... not counting today, how long have you "really" been in the biz - not too long based on your last 20/30 posts .. have you tried the Better Homes and Garden forum.? .. you might get better play there.
Terry.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Terry not dramatizing anything. I find it hard to believe you need a 750 or better to get the lowest rate. I am not saying it does not happen. All I am saying is 700-720 with good debt to ratio does guarantee a low rate where I am from.
Bill
sure it does...but not the best rates.
Bill
Credit unions will do loans that are pretty straightforward - automotive lenders can be "worked" by the F&I guy.
Bill
Plus we all know on alot not all but alot of models you can do better by taking the rebates and the low rate the credit union has offered to you.
Its really just a matter of sitting down and doing the math.
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debate is one thing, but beating my head against a brick wall like yours is futile and not fun nor informative.
My question is, at what point in the negotiation do you realize that an individual will be willing to pay MSRP? My second question is, how do you hide the smile from your face before you get the signature on the contract? :<)
1. payments
if a customer wants a payment that allows MSRP to be the price.
2. no negotiation
sometimes people just say "ok".
3. make up the difference with the trade
if they negotiate a deal at $500 off sticker, i can hold $500 of the trade to make up for it.
when i present figures, i always start at MSRP and ask: "when would you like to take delivery?"
if they want to negotiate, the reply will be "as soon as the price is right"
if not, then they will say "right now."
those that cant finance a glass of water with 90% down.
I ran into the SM's office with people landed on the Camaro at $500 a month, later to find out that they would have signed at $750, since they really had no intention of MAKING the payments.
Why start now? They hadn't paid anyone yet!
Mine has been getting a pretty good workout since Bill burst on the scene.
As I mentioned before this new topic of yours is exactly why ALOT of dealers have a bad reputation. Do one customer good by releasing the car at invoice then turn around and sell the same unit to a uneducated payment buyer at sticker. Hmmm Hope they didn't know each other!
Anyways bowke when you broke in making no sense at all we were discussing credit scores and interest rates. So exactly what did you prove again? From what I read you only posted 1 reply on this topic.
as far as ripping people off, dont you EVER use that term again about me. if a person asks to buy the car at a payment, then they are obviously comfortable with that payment, and dont care what price it is.
a wise man once told me:
"keith, if you dont get paid, then the guy down the street will."
BTW, they were not the same unit. one was a base 2.5s and the other was a 3.5se.
As a buyer the goal is to buy the most product for the least money. Somewhere in between is an agreeable medium where a transaction can take place.
If someone sits down and says I'd like to have that and will pay $xxx a month then we're going to work numbers based on $xxx a month, provided that's a workable number. If a MSRP sale works out to $xxx minus $27 a month then we're going to present them with a monthly that's $27 lower than they anticipated and they are going to be happy campers. RARELY happens that way but when it does it's nice.
All sorts of places to hide money, both in the selling price and the financing. Bill, why is this such of a surprise to you? Thought ya knew the busyness through and through? Or is feigning ignorance just an act, and they'll be a follow up attempt to come back all smarty? I'm all for maximizing profit. I do it in my business.
If John or Jean Q. Public doing the deal doesn't have enough smarts to realize where the ketchup, relish and mustard is hidden on the weinie and bun, I don't have any sympathy if they get themselves fleeced buying the Gottahavit GT, even though there's a 180 day supply of them on the ground
A perfect example that had that kind of immediate need for wheels, was Mr. Contour in Tennessee on whatever news show a few weeks ago, that signed a deal with a long term 23% interest rate. I for one can't imagine how they make it through life whole if buying and financing a car is such a challenge, even with all the up-to-date consumer info floating around.
Can't save people from themselves.
regards,
kyfdx
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It looks like it will get a lot of use on this board! Thanks guys!
In the Nissan example, big difference between a 2.5 and 3.5.
Retail sales in cars (and houses, etc.) is a negotiation based effort. As Isell likes to point out, the price is right on the car (MSRP). If you think that is too high, offer something else. Just because a dealer cheap-sold a unit for some reason (EOM, bonus for 1 more, sun spots) doesn't mean that everyone that walks in the door gets offered the same price right away.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I am all for making a buck. All I am trying to say is you guys put yourself in this position by letting units go for such a low price. Then you get excited when you do sell one for a higher price not realizing what kind of damage it could do to you in the long run.
Pay attention to who your selling to!
This quote is a great example of what is being talked about when you wonder about one car at MSRP and another at invoice. I mean, sincerely, to me, you sound absolutely ridiculous with a statement such as "Do one customer good by releasing the car at invoice then turn around and sell the same unit to a uneducated payment buyer at sticker. Hmmm Hope they didn't know each other!".
You claim to have knowledge of the auto business, a partner that was a dealer or a salesperson (or whatever) and that you are starting a site to bring buyers and sellers together. I claim no such knowledge. The closest I've got is one of my best friends was a good car salesman, about 18 years ago. Yet, it seems I KNOW more than you about how it really works. You honestly believe that a business should sell its product at invoice? Why? And why do you ASSUME that the MSRP buyer is uneducated? Maybe he doesn't care. He knows an MSRP deal is written up more or less instantly. Maybe to him, his time it too valuable. No matter the reason, what difference does it make? MSRP is THE price. No one is getting ripped off, because that guy can always say no.
I absolutely refuse absolve people of responsiblity for anything because they didn't know or they screwed me. For every person who buys an MSRP unit, that's one more invoice unit the dealer can sell to me, the one who took the time to research the price and is willing to spend a little time to get that price.
I'm getting the feeling that the proper grammar is why this isn't getting through to you.
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You are wasting your breath, I'm afraid, since he continues to embarass himself.
I had a similar experience at a Mazda dealership on a Mazda 3. Conversely, a Honda dealer I visited basically said "make me an offer".
Is the Subaru guy just being nice, or is there more to the story here?
Here's a topic that I thought was interesting (I saw it over on the SUV board).
and that was that real-world gas mileage for the new generation hybrids wasn't anywhere near the published EPA numbers. They gave some examples (tested scientifically) of a Honda Civic hybrid with a 47 mpg EPA city estimate that was only getting 30 or so miles per gal in a real world test. The numbers for the Toyota Prius were also less than two thirds of the published mileage.
With these kind of numbers the case for a hybrid is much harder to make, even at todays gas prices.
Any comments ?? Have you had any customer feedback along those lines ??
Mazda dealers.. One dealer in town advertises "up to" $2500 off a Mazda 3, while another dealer advertises $955 off of MSRP for the same car.
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I'm leasing a Subaru, standard 36 month lease, planning to turn in at lease end and either lease another Subaru or buy one. Love the car, all is well. I was treated well during the negotiation process, no time was wasted, and I'll likely work with them again. My question concerns service on the vehicle.
I have been having all service done at the dealership I leased it from...not that it's been much, just oil changes, tire rotation, that kind of thing. This dealer has a sheet they give all new customers called the "dealer recommended service schedule". No surprise there, it has several items that aren't part of Subaru's recommended schedule. OK, extras that won't hurt the car to do, but are mostly profit centers for the dealership. I understand that, and don't generally have a problem with it.
Here's what bugs me. The service department KNOWS I'm leasing this car. Since it goes back in two years or so, I figure there's no great pressing need for me to authorize all of the extra stuff to be done on the car beyond Subaru's recommended schedule. It's not like I'm planning to keep the car for 10 years. The service department keeps questioning why I don't go with their schedule. I mean, they act like I'm nuts for not going along with it.
They do fine work, and getting appointments is not a problem. I'm happy with what they do, workwise, but this insistence on using the dealer schedule is getting very annoying.
This almost becomes a battle when I bring it in. I've actually written a letter to the dealer complaining about the attempted "hard sale" of extra service, but no response.
They might be costing themselves the next car I get if they keep it up. Beyond picking up extra profit, any ideas as to why a dealer would keep trying this bonehead manuever? Am I in the wrong here somehow?
So how's that for a change of pace, guys?
-Dan-
i think the dealer employees are simply trained that way. let me ask you...do you deal with the same service writer every time?
if not, then try to do so. if you keep getting a different guy every time, then its no fault of theirs for pitching a sale.
make sure you ask for the ssame guy each time...this way they can remember you for the future.
"No, I don't need the differential fluid changed."
"No, I don't need new wiper blades."
"No, I don't need synthetic motor oil."
"No, I don't need a new air filter."
"No, I don't want to supersize it."
It IS annoying, but it is just a sales job. You seem to have a good handle on why they are doing it. You just have to learn to let it go. It is intimidating getting your car worked on, because (at least in my case), you realize that they know more than you do, and don't always have your best financial interest at heart.
Just smile... and say NO
regards,
kyfdx
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The first year, I decided that I would take the train 11 miles to work OW. That would require me to walk one mile from home to the station and one mile from the train station to work. So I did it. For ONE DAY. Cost $5.50. I figure that the variable costs on the grandmamobile runs between .14-.15 per mile so I was spending twice as much about $3-3.50 a day to commute. Not a smart decision.
The second year, I decided that I would sell the grandmamobile and pick up one of those small cars so that I would move up from 26 mpg to 35 mpg. Assuming 18k miles and $2 gas, the savings would be about $350. Again, just not worth it.
I figure that if I plan my trips better, I could shave about 10% of my driving and get about half the savings.
Now if those darn pharmacists ...
A lot of people who lease plan to buy out the lease at the end and keep the car. In that case, a little extra care can be a good thing.
The service reccomendations in the owner's manual spell out the MINIMUM service required. a lot of people like to take better care of their cars than that however. As a lessor, you are only responsible for what the book says to do.
In my own case, I own my cars but I usually change the oil every 3500-4000 miles even though the book says 7500. I do other PM ahead of schedule too but that's me. Probably a waste of money but old habits are hard to break.