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Pretty hard when we make our usual calls and get laughed at. The gas pigs are bringing thousands below what the books say.
With respect to manual versus automatic transmission - With the advent of lock-up torque converters in automatics these days and 4 and 5 speed overdrive automatics, the difference in mileage between an auto and a stick is small compared to days of yore. Therefore I don't see a major comeback for manual transmissions. Maybe a few more will be sold but not anywhere like in the 80's when lots of people had them.
Both my parents and I are appalled at this decision -- not that they can't afford it, but geez, they're looking at $70-80 to fill the tank!
Their reasoning? My sister just had her third child in December, and with the 2nd row captains chairs in the Ody, they couldn't haul enough stuff around with the 3rd row in its upright position. Now, with the Denali, all three boys (ages 6, 3 and 5 months) can fit in the 2nd row, which gives them the option of using the 3rd row for either cargo or grandparents.
I paid $21 yesterday for a tank of gas for my Ford Focus ($2.099/gal) and thought it was way too much! I cannot even envision a $75 tank of gas.
Oddly enough the only SUV that we are showing a slowing trend in sales is our smallest one that gets the best MPG....the Navigators and Aviators are still selling well....go figure.
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gas18e_20040518.htm
http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0405/18/c01-155946.htm
Although this article seems to indicate that at least big SUV sales are going down
http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/17/pf/autos/suvs_gas/index.htm
Also, you're right in that there really isn't a large fuel economy savings between a manual and the new automatics. I am more interested in just rowing the gears. Haven't done it in a while and miss it.
I know you get killed on the trade, though. But, you don't have to do the automatic transmission service, which can be pricey over the the lifetime of the vehicle. Maybe manual vs. automatic wouldn't be a bad thread, huh?
Lets say you can afford a Tahoe/Suburban/Hummer whatever and make payments of between $500 to $1000 a month.
Well if you drive 12k miles a year and get a lousy 12 miles per gallon then you'll need around 1000 gals of gas a year. Well even for gas at $2.50 a gallon that's only $208 per month in gas costs.
The gas cost is much less than the payment. Therefore even at outrageous gas prices these trucks are still selling. Like one of the articles said - people are more worried about the number of cup holders than the price of gas.
Duncan
Jolie may have a lot of company up there soon when they start drilling.... :-)
Duncan
So, while I'm paying $2.19 a gallon, he's paying NINETY-SIX CENTS. No, not $1.96. $0.96.
Someone tell me again how big oil is the one ripping us off?
The Michigan gas tax is only $0.19 and the fed tax is $0.184 - that's less than $0.38 (per http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp). Are you sure he just isn't busting your chops? So your Dad can pull up to any gas station in Michigan and pay $0.96? Seems ripe for abuse by any state empolyee.
Not the highest, but not the lowest either.
our 87 octane is under $1.90
My choice is to take a color I don't want or pay extra. Does this sound right?
$4,700 below invoice ...? (cough, sneeze) what was MSRP ....?
Terry.
JW
A quote's a quote. I'm in high-ticket sales myself and the same thing has happened to me. Suck it up and try to be more careful next time. In my view, the guy is not doing the right thing.
We are sitting at about $2.06/gal in Fairbanks, Anchorage was around $2.02/gal. Just love the $40 fill ups with the Explorer.
I think I'll be biking a lot more often these days.
Only options I'm looking for are sunroof and Cd changer. They exist on the second car. According to the invoice, only a sunroof exists on the first together with an option I don't want, split seats and ski package. He assured me it had a changer, perhaps he intended to add it at no cost when he first quoted the price. There goes $400 of his $1000.
I'm going to the dealership in person tomorrow, all the exchanges to this point have been i'net and phone.
Also, I have been scrimping and saving for a long time now, and have enough to pay it all off in cash right now. My college friends say this is enough leverage to get about $1500 below invoice. Any guidance as to whether my cash can make that good a deal?
My friends also say that I should bargain for total price, not a quote before dealer fees. I think this makes sense. What do you guys think?
Also, what is out the door price? Does that mean including all dealer fees, but before taxes? And is it the same as drive out price?
Lastly, I don't absolutely have to buy this car right now. Should I wait until later on in the year when dealers might want to get rid of '04s in prep for the '05s? If so, when is a good time, and what kind of difference can waiting make? I am considering automatic sedans such as the Honda Civic, the Toyota Corolla and the Nissan Sentra.
Thanks SO much for any help. This is such a confusing time for me, and every1 here just seems so nice and knowledgeable, I thought it would be a good place to ask Q's.
In order to give you a good target price your really need to be more specific about what your looking for. From what I can tell you went to a Honda dealer and they quoted you $800 in dealer fees on a Civic right?
Well here's an example. My friend just bought the car a week ago now.
2004 LX Honda Civic Sedan (Automatic) with air.
Here is the magic formula alot of car buyers simply cannot understand. I just don't get why either.
Your target price is invoice - manufacture to consumer incentives and or rebates - manufacture to dealer cash if any is available. Sometimes Edmunds post manufacture to dealer cash. It's that simple.
Realistically your looking at a little over invoice - manufacture to consumer incentives and or rebates - manufacture to dealer cash if any is available.
The only fee that you should expect to pay is the doc fee. I honestly don't ever pay this fee. Some dealers try to say its mandatory but I just have them adjust my final out the door price to match the doc fee they tack on. In my area dealers try to charge $150. $500 is way to much. I have read many many times $50 is really even pushing it when it comes to this fee. This fee is negotiable. If it wasn't then they wouldn't be adjusting my out the door price accordingly. Do not pay for any other fee especially window or "secure" etching. Do not pay for undercoating or pin stripping or scotch guard as well. All a waste of money!
Bottom line: My friend paid 14,900 and got free tires for as long as she owns the car.
Her best quote was $14800!
Now you asked would it be possible to achieve $1500 under invoice simply because your offering to pay in cash. Let me tell you something. A dealer would rather you finance the unit through one of their lenders. That way they could make more money off the deal. As for you paying cash they could really care less. So your answer would be no! Their not going to go $1500 under invoice because you have cash in hand. If they did that then they would be dipping into what's called holdback. Possibly loosing all their holdback on the car if they went that low.
So at best your looking at $14800 - $14,700 "out the door" which means the doc fee is included along with any other fee you let them charge you. TTL is not included. You must be prepared to pay these extra fees at the tag office. The best way to get the best price in my opinion is to have dealers compete against one another. Simply email all the Honda dealers in your area and wait for their quote. After you receive their initial quote email them again announcing the lowest bid "do not reveal the lowest bidding dealers information. They do not like that!". Keep doing this until they finally say that's the lowest they can go. If they say "by all means buy from the other dealer" well then you pretty much know you have reached their bottom dollar. This process should not take you no more than a few days top.
On some makes and models you might want to consider Gap Insurance. No Honda Civic is not one of the models! Honda Civic has great resale value. From all the models that I seen you list in my opinion the Honda Civic would be your best bet. I personally own one as well right now and I have never had a problem with it yet!
Last thing...if you decide to finance make sure to check your credit score. 700-800 will land you the lowest rate possible. Some lenders require a 750 some require 730 other such as my credit union requires 700 to achieve the lowest rate.
To figure out how much you will owe once you tag and title your car all you need to do is ask the dealer for a vin number and know how much your final out the door price will be. Call the DMV, give them your VIN number and the out the door price and they can tell you exactly how much you will owe once you tag it. Some states offers credit towards the out the door price if you decide to trade in your old car. For example. Say your out the door price is...
$15700
The dealer gave you $700 towards your trade in.
Now the DMV will configure excise tax against $15000 instead of $15700. Follow me?
Only in these instances can a used car be worth trading in to a dealer. You just might make out by saving some money on excise tax.
BUT! In states where you don't have this opportunity its almost always better to sell your trade in yourself! Dealerships only offer wholesale or dealer only auction market prices. Most of the time these figures are much less than trade in guide book values such as what Edmunds, NADA, and Kelly shows. Now I have people all the time saying well then how come my dealer gave me so much over guide book trade in value for my vehicle? My reply is simple! I ask them how much did you get off of MSRP? A dealer will make up for it some way or another! Guaranteed!
Well I hope I have helped you in some way. If you have more questions just ask. No I am not a car dealer. I am a consumer advocate. I frequent this board because the dealers in here just love to read what I have to say. If you ask them I have no clue about anything! lol Go figure!
Good luck...
Bill
Good luck!
Duncan
cash deals ARE NOT an incentive for dealers anymore. if you finance or lease, they get their money almost as quickly these days, so cash is actually a deterrent to dealing more.
Most people who say they are paying "cash" are full of it, anyway - they're going through their credit union, local bank, or money market account - they just want to use the word "cash" because they think dealers will jump through hoops.
Dealers would rather you finance, so don't expect any special favors for your "cash"...especially when they can get their money quicker by using a lender.
"out the door" which means the doc fee is included along with any other fee you let them charge you. TTL is not included."
I disagree. TTL is (or should be) included in an out-the-door (OTD) price. If you plan to register the car in a state other than the one in which you bought it, then you should request an OTD minus TTL price.
The articles said no engine damage, just damage to the sensors. Is this consistent with what you had repaired?
regards,
kyfdx
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since i had no out-of-pocket expenses, ashland is sending me 2 free tanks of gas.
im not sure thats a good thing, though...kinda like getting food poisoning from a restaurant, calling them, and them saying "come on in...we'll give you a free meal for 2!"
1. 1996 with 84k miles for about $15k - no issues with car and good shape etc
2. 1999 with 90k miles for about $18k - same shape etc.
anyone out there in car land have knowledge if it is better to get the 96 for less $ or spend a few more and get the 99 -- or does it matter?
(96 and 99 have same body styles for the 740iL)
thx!
But more importantly, the years in question are special: 1996 was the first year for OBD-II (on-board diagnostics, level II), which was a BIG DEAL and overall a good thing for consumers.
But a lot of manufacturers took a year or two to get the bugs ironed out of a very complex system.
Especially in a BMW, I'd stay beaucoup the heck away from any 96's and early 97's.
-Mathias
I said...
The first quote you see is an actual dealer beating his own previous quote that's why you see 4 bids have been placed up top.
What I meant was he was at 100 under invoice and another dealer came in at 200 then he rebid at 300 under invoice.
Bill
Pretty pathetic way for a merchant to move product.
I have another question. I buying the car in GA, but am registering it in another state. One dealer told me that I would have to contact my home state about taxes (the dealer would not be collecting tax from me; my home state would), while another dealer told me that he would have to charge me GA tax unless he delivered the car to me. Does any1 know which it should be? I definitely don't want to pay tax twice.
I appreciate any help.
dealers and salesmen here justified selling cars with adm stickers by saying it's supply and demand... maybe the supply has out paced the demand. the pendulum swings in both directions.
By the way I had a fifth bid come in today. Brand new dealer and their offering to sell this unit at $14800. I doubt anyone is going to go much lower but I will keep you guy posted.
Bill
Just seems like a dumb way to sell cars but maybe I'm a dinosaur.
Bill
the american consumer will always want new cars. wait a few months when gas prices go down and the dealerships will fill up again.
Note that more and more states are developing reciprocal sales tax agreements. The DMV in your home state will be able to tell you whether they have a reciprocal agreement with GA. If GA and your home state have such an agreement, then your dealer in GA can collect the sales tax for your state and forward it to your state.
Just to see if I can do it once the auction is over I will try to adjust the out the door price so the dealer will pay for my expenses incurred using Mycar.com! I have a feeling I am not going to have much trouble having a dealer adjust such minimal fees in order to close the deal. I will let you guys know the outcome!
Bill
thx! -
I'm not sure what else to recommend, considering where your desires seem to be. There really isn't anything comparable to those two cars, unless you look at a Lexus LS.
These are smaller, but a '99 or '00 Lexus GS would be a much more reliable car, and less costly to maintain.
If you have to get one of these, Mathias is right, the newer one is the better buy.
regards,
kyfdx
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Great cars, but don't ever get hit in it (i've been lucky so far).
AS
I-drive needs to be avoided.
And with the A8, there is the Al body.
A '99 740 may be no worse, in principle, than a 3- or 5-series of that vintage... it's really not a question of how many cylinders -- unless you need an engine rebuild -- it's a question of how many sensors and chips and what will they charge you for it... my neighbor's oldest ist driving a '91 850 (V-12) and says it's largely two 6's fused at the crank, with lots of parts compatibility. Of course, he thought he could flip it quick and make a buck... yeah, right.
But reliability has been OK, and I think his mileage is up there.
In any case, things can get ugly expensive, but cool cars nonetheless.
-Mathias
Great vehicles, but if the air drops out your lookin' at $3,500, if the power window turns in-op it's $185 just for the part and 2.5hrs labor at $90ish an hour for around $220, that equals, aah, ugh, uummm, hmm (lets see, carry my four, add the two) $400+ and then oh, lets add some tax, so figure $430 to make the window go up and down, God forbid the wiper motor goes "bye bye" at $360 and 4 hrs labor cuz' the top shroud has to come off ....
Great vehicles, I love to drive them and they are very cool, but just be prepared, it's a hi mileage Luxury vehicle thats costs more than a Cavalier to fix ..........
Terry.