We had a ten year old Landcruiser for sale. It was in fantastic condition inside and out but it had something like 165,000 miles on it. Looked and ran like new.
So, we advertised it for well below what they normally sell for because of the miles.
A couple of days later, during a slow time, I got a call from the most obnoxious fellow. I told him it was sold but he insisted on taking up a great deal of my time with a bunch of questions.
Real sarcastic guy..." Oh...well...I don't think I would have liked that blue color anyway"
Finally, he asked the question I was waiting for..." Well...how many miles were on it?"
" Well, I don't remember exactly but I think it was around 60 or 65,000 miles"
Sometimes I'd see an add for a great car at a great price, So I'd call..
"Is the XYZ car still available"
Oh Yes - come on down
When I get there I find that It's been sold (3 days ago). Then I get the old run around on other cars. So I listen politely and give them my number if they ask. I guess this is one of those life lessons - Never believe anyone selling anything.
When they call back I usually tell them I bought another car. When they ask if I got a great price I let em know what I bought and jack the price paid up 2 or 3 thousand.
That's kind of the reverse of a lowball.
Now I don't call, as there is no useful/reliable information given. If I want to see the car I'll just have to go on down, maybe it'll be there, maybe it won't.
But I usually keep my hand over my wallet while I'm talking to em.
Thanks for the conviction without a trial, there, dude. We've never even met, but according to you, I belong to a liar's club.
When they call back I usually tell them I bought another car. When they ask if I got a great price I let em know what I bought and jack the price paid up 2 or 3 thousand.
In the same post, though, you admit lying to someone....Mr. Pot, I'd like you to meet Mr. Kettle...
if it's justifiable to "low ball" a customer you feel deserves it, why isn't it justifiable to mess with a salesman that the customer feels deserves it? the salesman lied about having a particular car the customer asked about. then when he comes down to see the car, he gets a song and dance. be prepared to take if if you like to dish it out.
So why does the car dealership business have such a bad rep? I mean, you dont just wake up one morning and think " wow, car salespeople suck" - well, i dont
This is a sincere question, im really curious where it all began (if anyone actually knows).
I think it all began with horse trading.... and the car business is not much different.
I've been extremely lucky dealing with the car salesman that I have bought from. From reading these boards for the last 3 or 4 years, I realize that customers can be as bad as salesman and even sometimes worse.
People are people no matter if you are in retail selling clothes or selling houses or cars, "respect" is the key word.
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I have NO problem with slamming a car salesmen who lied or otherwise misled a customer - in fact, if it's one of my people, they're fired, no questions asked.
My comments were directed towards the person who had a real hard time in taking hold of the lowball concept, but had no problem whatsoever turning around and lying himself...either you agree with the idea or you don't - you don't get it both ways, where's it's OK one way, and not the other.
There's a huge difference, in my mind, however, when I pull a practical joke on a very deserving jerk in order to regain some motivation in the sales staff versus a customer who thinks it's OK to lie at any point in the sales process.
for my usage. A guy comes in and acts like a jerk, takes hours of a salesman's time, with only the intention of getting a number so it can be beat by $20 after they hit 14 other dealers.
I don't do it often, by any means, but there's an opportunity to take a hard-working salesperson who just wasted 3-4 hours of their time with some inconsiderate person, and at least WE get the last laugh.
Is it nice? No, it's like any other practical joke. Is it fair? Good question?
Do I care? No, I care about the sales staff, and if the thought of Mr. Customer running that incredible price all over town (and out of town), putting miles on his trade, using his gas money, using his valuable time, etc, makes that hard-working salesman smile, it's worth it.
this is exactly why the car business has the reputation it has. If I called on a particular car, and was told it was still there, and I found out that it was sold three days prior and was lied to, what basis would I possibly have for dong business with someone who has outright lied to me? I agreed with you earlier that some customers were idiots, and it's an example like the above that proves some salesman are idiots. Isell has said (and I know this to be true) that car dealers have "screamer ads" and have a total turnover of their sales staff on a regular basis. So I guess this makes the whole thing (negative experience) about buying a car a self fulfilling prophecy! "Well, let me lie to a potential customer about what he inquired about, get him down here, and hope I can sell him something". Give me a break!!
are salespeople (and dealerships) as you described condoned by me (and I'll speak for isell). There's no way I'd work with folks who operate that way.
Not all dealerships run screamer ads and run through 3/4 of their sales crew every month - from a customer's and a salesperson's perspective, those are the stores to avoid. If you do business with them, or work for them, you get what you deserve.
When i first moved to the US in 1999 (i married an American ) i was interested in working for a dealer. Id passed some tests to work for Mercedes Benz in the UK but i was happy to give anything a shot so i got a job working for (probably) the largest Ford dealer in Pittsburgh. Boy was i a mug!
First, myself and another person attended "training" for a week, where this guy made us buy tapes for $500 which would be reimbursed by the dealership (yeah, im an idiot). After training, started work, at least 3 people who worked there while in my first month quit, i was yelled at and called an idiot, customers were routinely messed about with lowball tactics, hiding keys to their trade in or taking 45 mins to "evaluate" it (ie go around back and wait for 45mins), the general manager told me and the other person who started at the same time our "training" was worthless and told us to say anything to get someone in a car. I never did get my $500 back.
I quit after 3 months and since that experience have at least seen the good side of car dealerships (i then worked for Enterprise Rent a car for over 3 years and worked with car dealerships a lot). I just dont understand why people worked there or people bought cars there. Its not like theres no choice for a Ford. To this day i'll never buy a ford from ANY Ford dealer after my 3 months of hell.
green pea factory, screamer ad store - they go through 50-75% of their staff every month, the managers are walking on eggshells worried about getting whacked at any minute, etc. I worked at a place like that - Buz Post GMC/Pontiac/Isuzu in Arlington, TX - Hyundai and Kia both turned them down for franchise requests because their CSI scores were so horrible.
For instance, I sold a Pontiac Bonneville SSEi to a lady who traded in an Chevrolet Astro Mark III conversion van - part of the deal, as written by me on the "We Owe", was that we would remove the Kenwood 10-disc changer from the van and install it in the new Bonneville. Seemed easy enough. I put a hold on the van through my manager, and I made an appointment for her with our stereo/alarm guys (on the premises, 9-10 employees!).
When the time came, I was having trouble finding her trade-in in our used lot. I must have asked 14 managers....but my final answer was that it had been sold. That, in addition to being treated like a green pea after 2 years in the business told me to quit. I felt really bad for the lady, I did my part, and she got scammed.
So many green pea stores do very well by hiring young folks, or older folks who are changing careers, victims of downsizing, or recently retired, then they drain these people dry - the green pea serves the purpose of weeding through the looky loos and getting living, breathing customers into a seat at their desk so a real salesman (the closer) can hook them up. It works, and as long as it works, stores like that will keep doing it.
They won't win any CSI awards, but when you're rolling out 1100-1200 units per month, why would the manufacturer hurt your chances?
That is where I bought my first car! The sales person bent over backwards trying to find me a truck. He would call me whenever they got something cheap on trade before they sent it to auction. The other thing strange about Buz Post was the salespeople would be there on Sunday when the lot was closed to let you look at cars.
But they do it with the worst CSI in the Dallas/Ft Worth area and they went through 18 (out of maybe 22-25) salesmen in the GMC truck store alone during the month I was there.
does CSI only matter if you dont sell vast volumes of cars? I mean ive had a few salespeople tell me how important it is to have a perfect score after you buy a car, but what kind of "punishment" would a manufacturer do to someone with low scores?
Hello all..I will write more soon as I need to get to work and sell. LOL I have read so much salesman bashing here; though it does not phase me. Why? I am a car salesman..New and used. I am sure there are "bad" salespeople..as there are bad doctors, lawyers, engineers etc...
I've read how salesman are all liars..well guess what?..In this biz the customer/salesman relationship seems to be symbiotic; as they feed off eachother. The customer these days, seems to lie MORE than ever before. Lie about their trade, what they can buy the "exact" same car for at down the road motors etc..LOL Again; if this message board and Edmunds allows, I will write more. Let me say this; ALL SALESPEOPLE ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL" Period! Will the distrust end? Sure. It has for me; but it took 3 yrs of operating above board with my customers. During that period I made a lousy living..Now; I make twice what my peers earn! It's called developing referrals!..and I have tons! Honesty and ethical practices remain the only way for me to do business. Selling is NOT a part time job for me or something I do in passing..It is my profession! That's right; it is a profession. On a final note; when I sell a car, I probably do more for our economy than any doctor or lawyer. Iam proud to be a Salesman!
Depends on the manufacturer. Most will "punish" by limiting the number of autos the dealer can buy next month. Some dealers will FIRE sales people for low CSI, or perhaps reduce their payable percentage of the gross. Kia; as an example allows nothing short of 100 percent..anything less is a failure.
CSI always matters, but when you've got 400 GMC Trucks rolling out the door each month in one location, it doesn't matter nearly as much as it does for the dealer selling 30 or 40 (to the manufacturer).
Yeah, you can speak for me since I think we operate pretty much the same.
I can't imagine telling a customer a sold car is still available. Why would I want an irate customer on my hands when I'm busy?
I'll usually ask some questions and quite often, we will have something else that would work just as well.
I just try to treat people the way I would expect to be treated. I've been in retail all of my life. I've been in the trenches and in upper management. It doesn't have to be difficult.
If a customer wants to be nasty or mean spirited, I can deal with that too...up to a point. Usually, I can disarm them but not everytime.
Some people just are miserable by nature. I try hard not to let them drag me down to their level of misery.
I learned something a long time ago, and that's that you create your own environment. If you want to be ducking and running and getting screamed at, then telling a customer a lie like that is for you - I don't see an "up" side to that!
If you're as respectful to others and you'd like them to be with you, life, in general, becomes easier.
Miserable people? I stay away from them as much as possible - it seems some people just live to gripe, complain, and stir the pot, looking for a dark side to everything so they can have more to complain about. I tell people like that to stay the heck away from me, of I'll give them a REAL reason to whine and complain....
"If a customer wants to be nasty or mean spirited"
After surveying the real costs of having a customer like that in your (any) place of business, I want to nip it in the bud now and make them leave. I'd rather pass on a deal, like they'd let us have a profit, anyway, than have the whole staff bummed out for the rest of the day because of some jerk.
Let's look at the real costs involved : (1) the salesman could be done for the day, mentally (2) the receptionist might not be so nice and cheery after dealing with the person, and may cause folks not to hold, costing potential customers (3) the manager gets angry, tosses a salesman out of his office, possibly costing a deal because he didn't have a good attitude.
This one jerk, who would have generated a $100 loser deal, also (potentially) cost the dealership 2-3 car deals - it's NOT worth it.
And it's amazing the pain some shoppers put themselves through when they are scared to death they may be not getting the "bottom dollar" whatever that is.
truly the exception to the rule! And I hope you are making a decent income based on your professionalism. However, until the car makers want to clamp down on the tactics that were we discussing above, the car business will be "what it is." I think it is up to the manufacturers to come down on some of this tactics. I am not even a believer in CSI scores. Those things are manipulated by the dealers to customers by giving away free oil changes and the like. But I will be the first to admit I don't have an answer to solving this "problem".
Reading all these accounts of customers about killing themselves to save a buck makes me think I'm too easy.
Way I see it is as long as the numbers seem fair for everyone I'll sign. I can't remember the last time I tried to shop a price on a car.
We are planning on buying a travel trailer and I guess I've looked a little on price there and am willing to drive out empty and buy in the lower 48, but that's just to save the $4000 shipping charge that the dealers up here add on.
Right now we are settled on a trailer and the dealership seems top notch. We are lining up our ducks and preparing to buy, they haven't pushed us at all and the sales manager (who is in love with my Titan) told me Saturday that there is a good deal waiting for us when we are ready. I like the laid back approach, some of the RV dealers are extremely pushy. I feel as long as the price is fair for everyone we will buy in Alaska, but if not we'll buy in So CA and bring it back.
I think people need to take a step back and stop trying to beat the last dollar out of the dealer, they have to keep the lights on or the customers won't have a place to buy that wonderful new XYZ.
I heard on our local news yesterday that there is a huge fire near Fairbanks.... you are 100-200 miles north, right?
I know you will enjoy your new travel trailer when you get it. I can't wait to rent another RV and travel again. I really like the freedom of stopping where ever you want and taking your time. I plan on renting the A-class next time for the extra room. I just need to find a "dingy" vehicle that I can tow. My SUV would be too heavy. Maybe I can find a nice Saturn like very one else pulls.... although, a Mini Cooper might just fit the bill if it can be towed all wheels down.
So, I guess my question to car dealers is, can a mini cooper be towed? Does it matter if it's a standard or automatic? I would prefer an automatic.
Happy camping.. Mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
There are 2 HUGE fires going near Fairbanks. We are 100 miles south of them. Thankfully the winds shifted and the smoke has cleared. It was REALLY bad, basically dark during the day. So far this summer in the state of Alaska over 1 million acres has burned. Rough summer.
500.00? Is fair including any dealer holdback? That's the issue. What is "fair" to you may not be "fair" to me. I guess it goes back to horse trading.................
Id like to see fixed prices on autos and no negotiating. In my eyes that would make sure that people pick the dealer based on service rather than price (something that i do myself, i shop the dealership first, price second). Im sure some dealerships would try and "work the system" but i think it could be policed ok. I know its not going to happen but comments?
shopping and have failed, for several reasons. You may note that Saturn now offers rebates and financing incentives.
First, people WANT to negotiate, both on the new car and their trade, because no one buys anything unless it's on sale.
Second, it's easy enough to shop a trade or financing between like "one price" selling stores, again not making it work.
Third, Saturn buyers, specifically, were paying 10% over invoice on a car that depreciates like every other domestic - like a rock. Not fiscally smart.
Lastly, most of our parents taught us how to car shop, and going into a dealership and paying whatever price is on the window sticker has NEVER been a part of that training.
What's fair? That is all a matter of opinion I guess. I've seen both sides of the table, I worked in sales. Nothing is more painful for a salesperson to have worked 1/2/3 days on a sale and then have it be a mini.....$150. Keep in mind that salespeople are commission only for the most part and may go 5/6 days without a sale.
I dunno, what's fair to me may not be to you, so to each his own. I need more pain pills, I'm getting grumpy.
Can we hear from Isell and the others? If I want to buy an average family sedan, let's say a Honda Accord or Ford Taurus, what is a fair price? Let's just talk about over invoice, since it's easier to equate that than sticker. Let's say there are no incentives (yes, I'm dreaming). What is your time worth? What is fair? Both cars are pretty much commodity items, (I know the Honda is a better car than the Ford) so what is a salesperson or store happy with on a Item (car) that I can purchase at any number of dealerships in the Los Angeles area?
The civil rights movement in the 1960s taught me that we have to look out for ourselves.
If I try to do what is best for me and if you try to do what is best for you, then what we agree to do will probably be fair to both of us.
When it comes to car buying, Chuck, I suggest that you try to buy the car you want for a price that you find acceptable, which, in my case, is a very low price.
Don't worry if the dealer thinks your price is fair or not. If it is not fair, then it won't be accepted.
can keep you from making a stupid offer, like $3,000 below net/net that no one could accept.
No, I won't break down a list of what I think should be fair for every vehicle in the market - common sense and respect on both sides of the desk will lead to a "fair" number.
I agree with Bobst. Fair on a Ford Exploder might be invoice - incentives, as that is what the market will bear.
Fair on a really hot seller (like the Pilot -- it is still hot, right?) would be much higher, possibly MSRP or above. Why? Because if I don't buy it for that price, someone else will.
Which is the better value? well, that is not for me to judge.
I thought I wuld give an example of Value that I am currently wrestling with. I really like the new (2005) Subary Legacy Wagons. Much more that my current ride (2002 Camry LE). How much more? well, easily 5K...but not 12K. So, lets say, I decide it is 8K nicer. As a trade, my Camry is about 11K. That means that, with a trade, I would be willing to pay my car+8K, or 19K....however, I would be laughed out of the dealership with that number.
Now, if I can sell privately for 13.5K (might be able to), then I am looking at 13.5K +8k+ 21.5K, which is close to the TMV for the car....Then, I would probably do the deal.
For instance, on a 2004 Taurus SES with an invoice price of $20,834.00 minus a $3,000 rebate, you'd be offering $18,084 plus TT&L.
That car, in used form books around $10,950.00, but real money is a $8,000 car at auction -
Chuck, I think you need to do a BUNCH more research - you were talking about how car dealers are crooks, but you were setting yourself up to get scalped!!
$500 over invoice for an Accord LX? I don't think any salesman would accept that. He would start to whine about the low holdback, lack of dealer incentive, etc. Then he would try to convince you Hondas are the highest quality product ever to descend from heaven.
How much would you be willing to increase your offer? $1000 over invoice?
From my experience, Chuck, you could offer $200 over invoice with no dealer prcessing fee. They would, of course refuse. Then when you get up to leave, they will accept it. Until you start to walk out, all they will do is try to get you to increase your offer.
I agree with everyone that buying a NEW Taurus in THIS market is plain suicide UNLESS you plan on driving the car for the useful life of the vehicle.
*BUT* having said that, a FY'02-04 Taurus as a USED car (fully inspected by an independent mechanic) is one of the best USED car bargains out there. They are pretty solid cars although unspectacular performance.
I have an '02 Taurus SE (53k miles) for sale for $7 currently that I bought off lease three months ago.
Comments
"And they just pulled it off the lot not five minutes ago ..."
So, we advertised it for well below what they normally sell for because of the miles.
A couple of days later, during a slow time, I got a call from the most obnoxious fellow. I told him it was sold but he insisted on taking up a great deal of my time with a bunch of questions.
Real sarcastic guy..." Oh...well...I don't think I would have liked that blue color anyway"
Finally, he asked the question I was waiting for..." Well...how many miles were on it?"
" Well, I don't remember exactly but I think it was around 60 or 65,000 miles"
***dead silence***
" OK...thank you"
Click...
"Is the XYZ car still available"
Oh Yes - come on down
When I get there I find that It's been sold (3 days ago). Then I get the old run around on other cars. So I listen politely and give them my number if they ask. I guess this is one of those life lessons - Never believe anyone selling anything.
When they call back I usually tell them I bought another car. When they ask if I got a great price I let em know what I bought and jack the price paid up 2 or 3 thousand.
That's kind of the reverse of a lowball.
Now I don't call, as there is no useful/reliable information given. If I want to see the car I'll just have to go on down, maybe it'll be there, maybe it won't.
But I usually keep my hand over my wallet while I'm talking to em.
Thanks for the conviction without a trial, there, dude. We've never even met, but according to you, I belong to a liar's club.
When they call back I usually tell them I bought another car. When they ask if I got a great price I let em know what I bought and jack the price paid up 2 or 3 thousand.
In the same post, though, you admit lying to someone....Mr. Pot, I'd like you to meet Mr. Kettle...
the salesman lied about having a particular car the customer asked about. then when he comes down to see the car, he gets a song and dance.
be prepared to take if if you like to dish it out.
This is a sincere question, im really curious where it all began (if anyone actually knows).
I've been extremely lucky dealing with the car salesman that I have bought from. From reading these boards for the last 3 or 4 years, I realize that customers can be as bad as salesman and even sometimes worse.
People are people no matter if you are in retail selling clothes or selling houses or cars, "respect" is the key word.
Mark
My comments were directed towards the person who had a real hard time in taking hold of the lowball concept, but had no problem whatsoever turning around and lying himself...either you agree with the idea or you don't - you don't get it both ways, where's it's OK one way, and not the other.
There's a huge difference, in my mind, however, when I pull a practical joke on a very deserving jerk in order to regain some motivation in the sales staff versus a customer who thinks it's OK to lie at any point in the sales process.
I don't do it often, by any means, but there's an opportunity to take a hard-working salesperson who just wasted 3-4 hours of their time with some inconsiderate person, and at least WE get the last laugh.
Is it nice? No, it's like any other practical joke. Is it fair? Good question?
Do I care? No, I care about the sales staff, and if the thought of Mr. Customer running that incredible price all over town (and out of town), putting miles on his trade, using his gas money, using his valuable time, etc, makes that hard-working salesman smile, it's worth it.
Not all dealerships run screamer ads and run through 3/4 of their sales crew every month - from a customer's and a salesperson's perspective, those are the stores to avoid. If you do business with them, or work for them, you get what you deserve.
First, myself and another person attended "training" for a week, where this guy made us buy tapes for $500 which would be reimbursed by the dealership (yeah, im an idiot). After training, started work, at least 3 people who worked there while in my first month quit, i was yelled at and called an idiot, customers were routinely messed about with lowball tactics, hiding keys to their trade in or taking 45 mins to "evaluate" it (ie go around back and wait for 45mins), the general manager told me and the other person who started at the same time our "training" was worthless and told us to say anything to get someone in a car. I never did get my $500 back.
I quit after 3 months and since that experience have at least seen the good side of car dealerships (i then worked for Enterprise Rent a car for over 3 years and worked with car dealerships a lot). I just dont understand why people worked there or people bought cars there. Its not like theres no choice for a Ford. To this day i'll never buy a ford from ANY Ford dealer after my 3 months of hell.
For instance, I sold a Pontiac Bonneville SSEi to a lady who traded in an Chevrolet Astro Mark III conversion van - part of the deal, as written by me on the "We Owe", was that we would remove the Kenwood 10-disc changer from the van and install it in the new Bonneville. Seemed easy enough. I put a hold on the van through my manager, and I made an appointment for her with our stereo/alarm guys (on the premises, 9-10 employees!).
When the time came, I was having trouble finding her trade-in in our used lot. I must have asked 14 managers....but my final answer was that it had been sold. That, in addition to being treated like a green pea after 2 years in the business told me to quit. I felt really bad for the lady, I did my part, and she got scammed.
So many green pea stores do very well by hiring young folks, or older folks who are changing careers, victims of downsizing, or recently retired, then they drain these people dry - the green pea serves the purpose of weeding through the looky loos and getting living, breathing customers into a seat at their desk so a real salesman (the closer) can hook them up. It works, and as long as it works, stores like that will keep doing it.
They won't win any CSI awards, but when you're rolling out 1100-1200 units per month, why would the manufacturer hurt your chances?
That is where I bought my first car! The sales person bent over backwards trying to find me a truck. He would call me whenever they got something cheap on trade before they sent it to auction. The other thing strange about Buz Post was the salespeople would be there on Sunday when the lot was closed to let you look at cars.
I have read so much salesman bashing here; though it does not phase me. Why? I am a car salesman..New and used.
I am sure there are "bad" salespeople..as there are bad doctors, lawyers, engineers etc...
I've read how salesman are all liars..well guess what?..In this biz the customer/salesman relationship seems to be symbiotic; as they feed off eachother. The customer these days, seems to lie MORE than ever before. Lie about their trade, what they can buy the "exact" same car for at down the road motors etc..LOL
Again; if this message board and Edmunds allows, I will write more. Let me say this; ALL SALESPEOPLE ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL" Period!
Will the distrust end? Sure. It has for me; but it took 3 yrs of operating above board with my customers. During that period I made a lousy living..Now; I make twice what my peers earn! It's called developing referrals!..and I have tons!
Honesty and ethical practices remain the only way for me to do business. Selling is NOT a part time job for me or something I do in passing..It is my profession! That's right; it is a profession.
On a final note; when I sell a car, I probably do more for our economy than any doctor or lawyer.
Iam proud to be a Salesman!
Most will "punish" by limiting the number of autos the dealer can buy next month.
Some dealers will FIRE sales people for low CSI, or perhaps reduce their payable percentage of the gross.
Kia; as an example allows nothing short of 100 percent..anything less is a failure.
I can't imagine telling a customer a sold car is still available. Why would I want an irate customer on my hands when I'm busy?
I'll usually ask some questions and quite often, we will have something else that would work just as well.
I just try to treat people the way I would expect to be treated. I've been in retail all of my life. I've been in the trenches and in upper management. It doesn't have to be difficult.
If a customer wants to be nasty or mean spirited, I can deal with that too...up to a point. Usually, I can disarm them but not everytime.
Some people just are miserable by nature. I try hard not to let them drag me down to their level of misery.
If you're as respectful to others and you'd like them to be with you, life, in general, becomes easier.
Miserable people? I stay away from them as much as possible - it seems some people just live to gripe, complain, and stir the pot, looking for a dark side to everything so they can have more to complain about. I tell people like that to stay the heck away from me, of I'll give them a REAL reason to whine and complain....
"If a customer wants to be nasty or mean spirited"
After surveying the real costs of having a customer like that in your (any) place of business, I want to nip it in the bud now and make them leave. I'd rather pass on a deal, like they'd let us have a profit, anyway, than have the whole staff bummed out for the rest of the day because of some jerk.
Let's look at the real costs involved : (1) the salesman could be done for the day, mentally (2) the receptionist might not be so nice and cheery after dealing with the person, and may cause folks not to hold, costing potential customers (3) the manager gets angry, tosses a salesman out of his office, possibly costing a deal because he didn't have a good attitude.
This one jerk, who would have generated a $100 loser deal, also (potentially) cost the dealership 2-3 car deals - it's NOT worth it.
Seriously, I get embarrassed for them sometimes.
it would be as if they were jumping over a dollar to get to a dime.
Way I see it is as long as the numbers seem fair for everyone I'll sign. I can't remember the last time I tried to shop a price on a car.
We are planning on buying a travel trailer and I guess I've looked a little on price there and am willing to drive out empty and buy in the lower 48, but that's just to save the $4000 shipping charge that the dealers up here add on.
Right now we are settled on a trailer and the dealership seems top notch. We are lining up our ducks and preparing to buy, they haven't pushed us at all and the sales manager (who is in love with my Titan) told me Saturday that there is a good deal waiting for us when we are ready. I like the laid back approach, some of the RV dealers are extremely pushy. I feel as long as the price is fair for everyone we will buy in Alaska, but if not we'll buy in So CA and bring it back.
I think people need to take a step back and stop trying to beat the last dollar out of the dealer, they have to keep the lights on or the customers won't have a place to buy that wonderful new XYZ.
I know you will enjoy your new travel trailer when you get it. I can't wait to rent another RV and travel again. I really like the freedom of stopping where ever you want and taking your time. I plan on renting the A-class next time for the extra room. I just need to find a "dingy" vehicle that I can tow. My SUV would be too heavy. Maybe I can find a nice Saturn like very one else pulls.... although, a Mini Cooper might just fit the bill if it can be towed all wheels down.
So, I guess my question to car dealers is, can a mini cooper be towed? Does it matter if it's a standard or automatic? I would prefer an automatic.
Happy camping.. Mark156
500.00? Is fair including any dealer holdback? That's the issue. What is "fair" to you may not be "fair" to me. I guess it goes back to horse trading.................
Looking for an excuse to visit Tumbler Ridge, BC (g) ...
First, people WANT to negotiate, both on the new car and their trade, because no one buys anything unless it's on sale.
Second, it's easy enough to shop a trade or financing between like "one price" selling stores, again not making it work.
Third, Saturn buyers, specifically, were paying 10% over invoice on a car that depreciates like every other domestic - like a rock. Not fiscally smart.
Lastly, most of our parents taught us how to car shop, and going into a dealership and paying whatever price is on the window sticker has NEVER been a part of that training.
I dunno, what's fair to me may not be to you, so to each his own. I need more pain pills, I'm getting grumpy.
If I try to do what is best for me and if you try to do what is best for you, then what we agree to do will probably be fair to both of us.
When it comes to car buying, Chuck, I suggest that you try to buy the car you want for a price that you find acceptable, which, in my case, is a very low price.
Don't worry if the dealer thinks your price is fair or not. If it is not fair, then it won't be accepted.
No, I won't break down a list of what I think should be fair for every vehicle in the market - common sense and respect on both sides of the desk will lead to a "fair" number.
A dealer invests 20,000 to put a car on his lot. He pays someone to inspect it, detail it and get it ready to sell. It could take two months to sell.
What kind of a return on investment do you think is "fair"?
I realize that to some who frequent these forums, any kind of a (gasp) profit is unacceptable.
But, let me ask the non car people here...what would YOU consider to be a "fair" profit?
I'm curious too.
One time I paid $5K for some bonds and sold them for $4K, a loss of $1000. Did I receive a fair price? Yep, I sure did.
Fair on a really hot seller (like the Pilot -- it is still hot, right?) would be much higher, possibly MSRP or above. Why? Because if I don't buy it for that price, someone else will.
Which is the better value? well, that is not for me to judge.
It's always the MARKET that determines the price of goods.
Now, if I can sell privately for 13.5K (might be able to), then I am looking at 13.5K +8k+ 21.5K, which is close to the TMV for the car....Then, I would probably do the deal.
Ford $250.00 over invoice (we know these things depreciate like there is no tomorrow!)
Honda $500.00 0ver invoice.
Isell, would you take the offer on the Accord?
For instance, on a 2004 Taurus SES with an invoice price of $20,834.00 minus a $3,000 rebate, you'd be offering $18,084 plus TT&L.
That car, in used form books around $10,950.00, but real money is a $8,000 car at auction -
Chuck, I think you need to do a BUNCH more research - you were talking about how car dealers are crooks, but you were setting yourself up to get scalped!!
How much would you be willing to increase your offer? $1000 over invoice?
From my experience, Chuck, you could offer $200 over invoice with no dealer prcessing fee. They would, of course refuse. Then when you get up to leave, they will accept it. Until you start to walk out, all they will do is try to get you to increase your offer.
*BUT* having said that, a FY'02-04 Taurus as a USED car (fully inspected by an independent mechanic) is one of the best USED car bargains out there. They are pretty solid cars although unspectacular performance.
I have an '02 Taurus SE (53k miles) for sale for $7 currently that I bought off lease three months ago.