...l..o..l..... Yep, thats usually the reaction ..
Everyone has a better way to fish, until it's time to go fishin' .......
Thats why you can't buy every vehicle on the planet for $100 over cost .. see guys like Chuck1 like to "think" they get ripped off, but it's ok for them to pay $1,900 for a $600 dining room set, or pay $250 for a new Nike driver when it can be had for $99, and they have no problem paying $1,200 for a new watch that can be bought for $500, but God forbid a dealer makes $200 on a $25,000 investment ... he must wear those "aquarium sunglasses", this way he can forget the rest of the world and only see whats going on in his 10 gallon tank .....................
Great posts on opening a dealership. Isn't that also just the beginning as well? Don't you have to have X amount of capital & pass the other things the auto manufactuors require plus then be able to swing the line of credit on the vehicles themselves? Just curious.....
yeah, I do find this pretty enlightning...I doubt many people know what opening one of these places entails. Though now I get why only big corporate groups seem to be able to own dealerships these days, and that's NOT a real good thing...that can lead to reducing diversity and innovation and competion, which bothers me.
........... Actually the beginning is getting the manufactures to give you the approval flag .. then all the contracts, must show how liquid you can get, plus the X amount of capital & pass the other stuff like school and training depending on your history, etc, etc ..
Then of course being able to cover the floorplan, think about it, lets just say 150 new and used vehicles standing on the pavement, and lets just say they only average $15 grand a vehicle, thats $2.3 mill at a quarter point over Prime EVERY month just to keep them standing there, thats why dealers want to drop-kick a potential buyer when they talk about going into the holdback, getcha some of that.! .. no palpitations going on there when only 30 vehicles have moved and it's the 20th of the month .l.o.l...
Npaladin2000 brings up a very good point: ** now I get why only big corporate groups seem to be able to own dealerships these days, and that's NOT a real good thing ** --- he's right, thats why Auto Nations and the rest are on the buy and alot of the dealers are on the sell .. and not to get into all the other boring stuff, but you have people that "say" they got ripped off ~ but forget to tell anyone their check was bad and it bounced 3 times, their sister smashed the new vehicle 3 days after they bought it with no insurance, used their Fathers s/s and credit to buy it, lied about their job, put 20k on a vehicle with -0- service in 6 months and now he's sitting in the service department with his lawyer trying to lemon-law it, etc, etc, etc.com ...... ask Drift, he's in that line of business, there is more BS lemon-law stuff than Carter has Little Liver pills .l.o.l.....
I know about buying and selling dealerships fairly well, although my experience hasn't been updated in 4 years.
First of all, most people who break into the New Auto Dealership Principal world are not people who have decided to "go into the car business". My mother just happened to be the only one who had worked for any of my grandfathers 9 ships when he passed so they went to her. When my mother sold hers, all but two of them were purchased by employees, mostly GMs but one SM. Those people were all buying "used" dealerships. Although my mother purchased a few established dealerships, she never purchased the franchise, built and started a new dealership. The only time "new" was done was when she moved a couple of dealerships down the street where we had built two brand new facilities on ground that we owned. One of these was Oldsmobile and I remember GM gave her a no interest loan for something like $25m to build that one. (Hehe.)
I found an interesting site on an Automotive Dealership Broker. Even if you're (readers) not interesting in buying, it's a pretty interesting site.
It looks like a great source to find out if one is qualified by the manufacturer to purchase and what those qualifications are.
I saw a few dealerships in there in the < $5M range. I would say starting out with a $5k-10k due diligence study on a used dealership would be the place to start.
......... Good post, I'm very familiar with these guys, as a matter of fact I interviewed them when I was looking to sell, but like your Mom it went the way of Employee GM/SM ...
Yep, some folks get lucky and have a PhD ~ "Papa Has a Dealership" ....... ;-)
Mathias,Terry and Mfullmer thanks for great posts. Just wanted to give some of the folks who come here a better appreciation of the type of outlay and very long road with tough hours it takes to get to the point of even contemplating your own new car dealership. Good job .
Terry, um, you need to step away from the coffee pot. Wow, $1 million a good starter store.
I think we'll keep selling firewood. Cost of the product $0......just our hard work and aching bodies......but a truckload sells for $110. Figure in gas and oil for the saws, gas to deliver it, its still a pretty good $70 profit on a truckload. Deliver 50 per winter, that's $3500 in the clear. Yup, works for me......its all play money anyway.
I think you'd be better off to take your $3-5 million and burn it in a bonfire than to open a car dealership.
The other factor is the price of competition, advertising etc.
On the other hand, the Big 3 are on the lookout for minorities to become dealer principals. The have programs and schools to that effect. We had a lady in the Ford program intern with us for a while.
Hey, Terry, I don't get ripped off. I have started doing a lot of "shopping" online. A little less than Brick & Mortar, very convenient. Of course with the franchise laws, you can't really buy a new car this way. I have to conclude that there is plenty of money to be made in selling cars, at least in Southern California. The vast majority of the dealers here have turned their facilities in to "mega dealerships" through extensive remodeling. These guys have spent millions. I guess it's kinda like the casinos in Vegas, the water running through the canals inside that one casino isn't paid for by people winning!! LOL!!!
how much is all of the "extravagance" at a dealership (define it how you will) is required by the car brand by contract and how much is the dealer just trying to look "upscale" and justify a higher price for cars?
"how much is all of the "extravagance" at a dealership (define it how you will) is required by the car brand by contract and how much is the dealer just trying to look "upscale" and justify a higher price for cars?" Nice point... but I don't think it matters. The point is that there must be a R.O.I. (return on investment). If it's required or not.... the money must be there to be made if this kind of money can be spent on remodels.
I had good experience with independent mechanics highly rated (by customers) at CarTalk's Mechan-X-Files (http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/). 3 out of 3 so far.
There is a store for sale in my state (based on your recent purchase, you like the brand) that sits on 1 acre (which is below mfg requirements) so you will be required to buy a new plot of land and a new building in addition to the price...they sell 40 cars per month(new and used) and they have not been profitable in 3 of the last 6 years. All this can be yours for $4 million....such a deal.
I'd like to offer some encouragement, although not directly to go into the car business, but to keep thinking about opportunities. I think Terry and the others are being so negative because your original post seemed to hint that you thought things might be alot easier than they are. This is America, and people do make it. Probably Terry and some of the others have worked for what they now have, not been born into it. I know someone who started with nothing and built a dealer group worth in the 9 figures, but that took alot of effort, enthusiasm and luck. In any other business, success depends on all three factors. If there were any easy ways everyone would be doing it. Being the boss is (at least for me) better than being an employee, but that doesn't mean easier or less stressfull. Know what you want to do, know what you are getting into, and be prepared to fail and try again.
terry, all caught up on my bills, need a loan? My point was that it is easier for some people to open a point than for others to do so. If you are of the right persuausion the Big 3 want you.
steve, We're not being negative, just realistic. It's a huge investment and the payoff isn't immediate. It's definitely harder now than it was back in the day.
the issue with taurus head gaskets was with the old 3.8L v6 from '92-'95. my last car was a tempo with the vulcan (3.0) v6. it is still going today with over 175k miles.
I am looking at a 2001 max se 5spd in mn. The car is fully loaded with all options including leather, sunroof, etc. Mileage is 35K. Car appears in good condition. Asking price is $18.9K. Is this price reasonable, or what would be a "fair" price to pay on this car? Any comments on the '01 max? Problems? Impressions?
that particular car, a 2000 ford focus zts, only has 1 record according to carfax. it has a personal use registration in alabama, and has no title or accident reports.
the "4 records" are:
11/04/1999 NICB Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original dealer
12/15/1999 Alabama Motor Vehicle Dept. Opelika, AL Registered as personal vehicle
01/14/2000 64 Alabama Motor Vehicle Dept. Opelika, AL Title #25422428 Title issued First owner reported
06/04/2004 Alabama Motor Vehicle Dept. Opelika, AL Title #32642398 Title issued Duplicate title issued
the 1st one is the manufacturing record, the second is when the dealer reported it in inventory, the third is the original sale date, and the 4th is the date it was traded to the dealer that has it now.
CARFAX data to folks....Edmunds has a business arrangement with them, plus who needs the hassle when someone buys the car and finds out it's a repurchased lemon 60 days later and comes back to bash you..
People can spend the $19.99 and have their very own subscription..
Thanks in advance for helping me. I do appreciate your help.
From what I have read in the Audi Forum, it seems like the 2005 A4 will not be different from the 2004 A4. With that being said, I do hear 2005.5's will be coming out around Feb of 2005. Since my time frame was buying an A4 around August and forward, Do you think it would be worth it to wait for the 2005.5? Do you think I can get a better deal if I buy a 2005 and not the 2004's few month before the 2005.5's comes out?
While I realize most of you will tell me "as long as I'm happy it doesn't matter", and I would agree with that. But at the same time, I would be happy with a 2005 or 2004 or a 2005.5. I guess I'm asking for your opinion as to what you would do in my shoes and if you as the dealer has heard anything great about the 2005.5 to wait for one.
Although I would like to have a car soon, I am not in a need as of yet. I am flexible as to when I can purchase.
And for what it's worth, I do appreciate all the dealers/salesman/saleswoman in here. Most of you have changed the way I feel about the industry.
Thank you,
Jeremy
P.S. Also if anyone has a Audi dealer in the Tri-state area that they would recommend please let me know so I can contact you off-line. Thanks again.
Hey Drift, I didn't realize. On the Audi website, it has NY, NJ Conn as the Tri-state area. So i thought there was only one. Oh well. Life's full of lessons.
I think some places refer to SE WI, NE IL, NW IN as "Tri-State area" also. However, in defense of keitarou, whenever I hear Tri-State, I assume the megalopolis.
I grew up in NY in the "tri state area" and am real used to hearing that term for NYc metro area, Northern NJ and Southern Conn. I don't recall the Phila/DE/SJ NJ area ever called "tri state" since I've been here. Usually just "Delaware valley"
I got my 2002 A6 Avant from Biener Audi in Great Neck. The sales experience was good. The service experience so far is very very good. They try VERY hard to make you happy. Loaner car is avaliable if you ask for it in adavance.
In regard to whether to get the current A4 or the later model year. In my stupid opinion, I might go for the later model. The reasons? If I lease, I will have a higher residual value, thus cost less. If I buy, even though I would pay closer to MSRP, the car would retain a slightly higher resale value just because its the new body style.
But, if you don't care about resale value, and planned to drive the car to the ground, then the current body style should work for you. Plus, if you are afraid of first year gremlins, then the old body style is definitely the way to go.
to Biener Audi. They completely ignored me. I went in to look at some cars and no sale person approached me. I was surprised. After looking at some cars and sitting in them for a while, I left with no one saying anything to me.
But in your opinion, does the 2005.5 cars have enough changes to it to warrant paying MSRP or higher depending on how pop the model would be?
Thanks dleungnyc.
I use to know a friend named David Leung in grade school.
They are definitely 'low' pressure when it comes to their sales force. During my service visit. I could sit in the new body style A8, the RS6 and the TT convertible and check out the interior and no sales person would approach me. I like that.
While it may be great for someone who is just there for service, for someone, like our gentleman above who actually wants to buy something, not being greeted or assisted is a quick turnoff and lost business.
While I don't like the idea of salespeople doing a football-style dogpile on a potential customer, the customer shouldn't have to wear a flourescent yellow and green t-shirt that says "Please talk to me, I want to buy a car", or have to carry a picket sign that says "potential customer w/good credit, interested in _______".
A simple, quick greeting to let you know there's help available should you need it is necessary for a sales staff to properly do its job.
While I like to be left alone to check out the cars and sit in them with no sales pitch, I would of thought someone would let me know that they know I'm there and if i have questions he/she is available to help me. That would have been enough.
But going back to my original question, I guess no one else besides dleungnyc have any opinion. I guess I should of left it open to non audi dealers as well.
and even though I do court expert work, it's mostly against manufacturers, but I see some dealer fraud cases - believe me, if I know of a dealer personally, you don't want to do business with them.
Except my buddy down in Louisville where I'm getting my F-350 and Cobra, right, Keith?
Comments
...l..o..l..... Yep, thats usually the reaction ..
Everyone has a better way to fish, until it's time to go fishin' .......
Thats why you can't buy every vehicle on the planet for $100 over cost .. see guys like Chuck1 like to "think" they get ripped off, but it's ok for them to pay $1,900 for a $600 dining room set, or pay $250 for a new Nike driver when it can be had for $99, and they have no problem paying $1,200 for a new watch that can be bought for $500, but God forbid a dealer makes $200 on a $25,000 investment ... he must wear those "aquarium sunglasses", this way he can forget the rest of the world and only see whats going on in his 10 gallon tank .....................
Terry.
Don't you have to have X amount of capital & pass the other things the auto manufactuors require plus then be able to swing the line of credit on the vehicles themselves? Just curious.....
Then of course being able to cover the floorplan, think about it, lets just say 150 new and used vehicles standing on the pavement, and lets just say they only average $15 grand a vehicle, thats $2.3 mill at a quarter point over Prime EVERY month just to keep them standing there, thats why dealers want to drop-kick a potential buyer when they talk about going into the holdback, getcha some of that.! .. no palpitations going on there when only 30 vehicles have moved and it's the 20th of the month .l.o.l...
Npaladin2000 brings up a very good point: ** now I get why only big corporate groups seem to be able to own dealerships these days, and that's NOT a real good thing ** --- he's right, thats why Auto Nations and the rest are on the buy and alot of the dealers are on the sell .. and not to get into all the other boring stuff, but you have people that "say" they got ripped off ~ but forget to tell anyone their check was bad and it bounced 3 times, their sister smashed the new vehicle 3 days after they bought it with no insurance, used their Fathers s/s and credit to buy it, lied about their job, put 20k on a vehicle with -0- service in 6 months and now he's sitting in the service department with his lawyer trying to lemon-law it, etc, etc, etc.com ...... ask Drift, he's in that line of business, there is more BS lemon-law stuff than Carter has Little Liver pills .l.o.l.....
Terry.
Terry.
First of all, most people who break into the New Auto Dealership Principal world are not people who have decided to "go into the car business". My mother just happened to be the only one who had worked for any of my grandfathers 9 ships when he passed so they went to her. When my mother sold hers, all but two of them were purchased by employees, mostly GMs but one SM. Those people were all buying "used" dealerships. Although my mother purchased a few established dealerships, she never purchased the franchise, built and started a new dealership. The only time "new" was done was when she moved a couple of dealerships down the street where we had built two brand new facilities on ground that we owned. One of these was Oldsmobile and I remember GM gave her a no interest loan for something like $25m to build that one. (Hehe.)
I found an interesting site on an Automotive Dealership Broker. Even if you're (readers) not interesting in buying, it's a pretty interesting site.
http://www.gordonpage.net/
It looks like a great source to find out if one is qualified by the manufacturer to purchase and what those qualifications are.
I saw a few dealerships in there in the < $5M range. I would say starting out with a $5k-10k due diligence study on a used dealership would be the place to start.
Yep, some folks get lucky and have a PhD ~ "Papa Has a Dealership" ....... ;-)
ALABAMA
CHEVROLET -- Good starter store. $1M.
.l.o.l... 1 mill, good starter store ..
Terry.
Just wanted to give some of the folks who come here a better appreciation of the type of outlay and very long road with tough hours it takes to get to the point of even contemplating your own new car dealership.
Good job .
Duncan
I think we'll keep selling firewood. Cost of the product $0......just our hard work and aching bodies......but a truckload sells for $110. Figure in gas and oil for the saws, gas to deliver it, its still a pretty good $70 profit on a truckload. Deliver 50 per winter, that's $3500 in the clear. Yup, works for me......its all play money anyway.
Terry, I'm glad you laid that our so well. Maybe the Invoice Buyers will pay attention.
Naw...they don't care and I don'e expect them to.
The other factor is the price of competition, advertising etc.
On the other hand, the Big 3 are on the lookout for minorities to become dealer principals. The have programs and schools to that effect.
We had a lady in the Ford program intern with us for a while.
And that means.? .. they have been doing that since 83/84, did you just open your mailbox.? .. I bet your a few months behind on your bills .l.o.l...
Terry.
I don't get ripped off. I have started doing a lot of "shopping" online. A little less than Brick & Mortar, very convenient. Of course with the franchise laws, you can't really buy a new car this way. I have to conclude that there is plenty of money to be made in selling cars, at least in Southern California. The vast majority of the dealers here have turned their facilities in to "mega dealerships" through extensive remodeling. These guys have spent millions. I guess it's kinda like the casinos in Vegas, the water running through the canals inside that one casino isn't paid for by people winning!! LOL!!!
Nice point... but I don't think it matters. The point is that there must be a R.O.I. (return on investment). If it's required or not.... the money must be there to be made if this kind of money can be spent on remodels.
On a personal note I've been salesperson of the year 2 years in a row for my dealer - not that its such a big dealer but still its nice.
Duncan
Being the boss is (at least for me) better than being an employee, but that doesn't mean easier or less stressfull.
Know what you want to do, know what you are getting into, and be prepared to fail and try again.
all caught up on my bills, need a loan?
My point was that it is easier for some people to open a point than for others to do so. If you are of the right persuausion the Big 3 want you.
steve,
We're not being negative, just realistic. It's a huge investment and the payoff isn't immediate.
It's definitely harder now than it was back in the day.
What did you think of the V6 vs. the standard 4-cyl. Tempo??
Thanks in advance for your help
the "4 records" are:
11/04/1999 NICB
Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original
dealer
12/15/1999 Alabama
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Opelika, AL
Registered as
personal vehicle
01/14/2000 64 Alabama
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Opelika, AL
Title #25422428
Title issued
First owner reported
06/04/2004 Alabama
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Opelika, AL
Title #32642398
Title issued
Duplicate title issued
the 1st one is the manufacturing record, the second is when the dealer reported it in inventory, the third is the original sale date, and the 4th is the date it was traded to the dealer that has it now.
People can spend the $19.99 and have their very own subscription..
But then it would make their deal $119.99 over invoice...
From what I have read in the Audi Forum, it seems like the 2005 A4 will not be different from the 2004 A4. With that being said, I do hear 2005.5's will be coming out around Feb of 2005. Since my time frame was buying an A4 around August and forward, Do you think it would be worth it to wait for the 2005.5? Do you think I can get a better deal if I buy a 2005 and not the 2004's few month before the 2005.5's comes out?
While I realize most of you will tell me "as long as I'm happy it doesn't matter", and I would agree with that. But at the same time, I would be happy with a 2005 or 2004 or a 2005.5. I guess I'm asking for your opinion as to what you would do in my shoes and if you as the dealer has heard anything great about the 2005.5 to wait for one.
Although I would like to have a car soon, I am not in a need as of yet. I am flexible as to when I can purchase.
And for what it's worth, I do appreciate all the dealers/salesman/saleswoman in here. Most of you have changed the way I feel about the industry.
Thank you,
Jeremy
P.S. Also if anyone has a Audi dealer in the Tri-state area that they would recommend please let me know so I can contact you off-line. Thanks again.
Good luck in your Audi search - I can't help with that, just here for a geography session.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
In regard to whether to get the current A4 or the later model year. In my stupid opinion, I might go for the later model. The reasons? If I lease, I will have a higher residual value, thus cost less. If I buy, even though I would pay closer to MSRP, the car would retain a slightly higher resale value just because its the new body style.
But, if you don't care about resale value, and planned to drive the car to the ground, then the current body style should work for you. Plus, if you are afraid of first year gremlins, then the old body style is definitely the way to go.
Good luck.
But in your opinion, does the 2005.5 cars have enough changes to it to warrant paying MSRP or higher depending on how pop the model would be?
Thanks dleungnyc.
I use to know a friend named David Leung in grade school.
Same for southern NJ. They should just split the state like the Dakotas for all the respect the southern half gets.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Glad to be living in Alaska.
MI,IN,OH (toledo, south bend)
IN,OH,KY (cincinnati)
OH,KY,WV (ashland, huntington)
IN,IL,KY (paducah, evansville, owensboro)
there are dozens more, mostly around cities large enough to have TV stations.
While I don't like the idea of salespeople doing a football-style dogpile on a potential customer, the customer shouldn't have to wear a flourescent yellow and green t-shirt that says "Please talk to me, I want to buy a car", or have to carry a picket sign that says "potential customer w/good credit, interested in _______".
A simple, quick greeting to let you know there's help available should you need it is necessary for a sales staff to properly do its job.
Even at Biener Audi.
But going back to my original question, I guess no one else besides dleungnyc have any opinion. I guess I should of left it open to non audi dealers as well.
Except my buddy down in Louisville where I'm getting my F-350 and Cobra, right, Keith?