Taking your vehicle to Carmax for a quote was definitely a good idea, gari. Unfortunately, it is still going to cost you quite a bit of money to get out of your leased Xterra. If I was in your situation, I would keep the Carmax quote in mind, visit a few dealers - possibly even Nissan dealers, to see what they would be willing to give you for your truck. It probably won't be any more than your current offer, but it wouldn't hurt to check. If you really need to get out of this lease this long before the scheduled end of your lease then this may end up being the price that you have to pay.
But 1 good thing is they deduct your trade in allowance from the deal price. Then charge sales tax on that. Then deduct rebate(s) etc. and add tag, insp., etc........
I posted an article here from the Kiplinger Washington Letter in early July where they predicted Mitsubishi would leave the U. S. market. Here is an update from the Kiplinger letter of 7/23/04: "Despite the recent announcement of job cuts, the company says its not about to say goodbye to the U. S. market as we forecast in our July 2nd letter. Plant closings are also a part of a turnaround plan for the company, which includes an infusion of about $5 billion in fresh capital to help rejuvenate Mitsubishi. The automaker still faces tough challenges holding on to its tiny share of the U. S. market but insists it is committed to staying the course." Wow, $5 billion to hold onto a 1% share of the U. S. market? Not likely, they must be/have been in trouble in Japan too.
I want to first say thanks to all the experts and salespeople who post on these forums. Your insights are invaluable. I do have a couple of quick questions before I go into negotiations on a 2005 Nissan Altima this evening. First, is it bad form to bring a laptop in to negotiations. I have a lease calculator that is saved on my desktop, which would make it really easy to check numbers, but I don't want to make this an awkward situation. Your thoughts?
Also, if we agree on the OTD price on the car and then get to the F&I table and the lease numbers (money factor, residual value, etc.) are not acceptable to me, is it bad form to walk out?
I've even helped with bad form, as in being on the other end of the cellphone when my out of state buddy was in the F&I office - I had the F&I person copy and paste the "deal" screen into an e-mail to me before I'd give my buddy the "go ahead" to do the deal.
If you're concerned about appearances, simply take the numbers and take a coffee break out to your car or down the street. Then again, simply mentioning that "you have your laptop and you've been doing some figuring with your payment calculator" will make the numbers come out right, since they're sure to be checked.
Walking out of the office is an option that many people SHOULD choose, but don't. Instead, they log into Edmunds and complain about "getting taken" instead of taking personal responsibility and doing some thinking and researching before signing on the dotted line for a contract for thousands of dollars - after the fact is not the time to be concerned about what you're signing!!
Wow, $5 billion to hold onto a 1% share of the U. S. market? Not likely, they must be/have been in trouble in Japan too.
Mitsubishi Motors has had many issues in Japan with hiding defects to avoid recalls and some corporate scandal issues. So yes, the US$5 Billion has a lot to do with issues in Japan.
i happen to be a nissan salesperson (for the moment), and a lease guru, so i'll take this one.
nissanusa.com has a payment calculator for leases, and i would suggest using it. the payment it comes up with is before taxes, so factor that in, but it is VERY accurate.
invoice on a 2.5S with mats and muds is $19047. unfortunately, you dont get the rebate by leasing the altima. using invoice, with your 1st payment, acquisition fee, and cap cost reduction taxes as your initial payment of about $830 you should be in the $280 range plus sales tax on 39 months at 12k miles per year. this is assuming that you get the security deposit waived (over 720 beacon).
yes, but you would be jumping over a dollar to get to a dime in that case. NMAC uses approximately a 58% residual on 39 months, and noone else is even close to that. my advice is to use NMAC.
also, i always advise people not to go longer than 39 months on any lease, so dont let them talk you into longer.
I didn't see the post where the lease was for 39 months.
Janamax - There are a few questions you should ask yourself prior to leasing (I'll tell you my story after I ask them.) Have you leased before? How long did you keep your last two cars before you started looking for a new one?
I say this because I am finally, after 4 leases (2 at a time), deciding that I'm not a lease person. I've never been one to keep a car more than 2 years and I had two 3 year leases and two 2 year leases. All four times I could hardly stand waiting until it ended. One of them I sold outright after two years (and made $880!) and two of them I paid off early and turned them in in the last 6 months.
39 Months is far too long for any Nissan as they only 36 month warranties. You don't seriously want to pay for repairs for a car you dont own do you?
That's what I was afraid of... thanks, bowke. I'll definitely factor that in.
I originally was just looking at 36 month leases, but then it occurred to me that I would rather have my lease end closer to year-end rather than in the summer. I don't drive many miles at all, so I'm not too concerned about a three month span after the 3 year warranty is up. I am really good about keeping up with routine maintenance, so I hope that the car doesn't decide to die on me in out-of-warranty land... though I know that's a risk I may have to take.
Mfullmer, in answer to your question, yes... I have leased before. My 48-month lease (on an Elantra) is just ending. My last payment is made and the lease company is picking up my car this week. I know there are a lot of risks involved, but I am aware of all of them and have taken them all into consideration. I do, however, really appreciate your concern.
I don't really get that "itch" to go out and buy a new car. 48 months worked fine on the Hyundai bc they have a 5-yr b2b and 10-yr powertrain warranty, so I was well within range there. I was definitely ready for the 48 months to be over, but I knew that rolling over negative equity didn't make sense to me... the Elantra has been great... just ready for something a little nicer now.
I know that 39 months leaves a 3-month window with no warranty, but (as I mentioned in my post above) I think the Altima will make it through that relatively small time span okay.
OK. Then it sounds like that 39 monther is a great one for you!
I agree with Bowke about the Manufacturer leases also.
Mine is more consumer oriented though. When I was in the business and since I have heard many stories about the bank leases and the way they nickle and dime you to death at lease end. (Most people would assume that "normal wear and tear" of a 3 year old car means having a few door dings, rock chips, etc. but the banks literally want you to bring it back like it is brand new) I've only used GM but they are really liberal when it comes to understanding that small dings and chips do happen.
I have heard the horror stories about lease-end, as well, mfullmer. However, mine has gone very smoothly (so far) and I leased my car through a community credit union when I lived in TX. My car had a couple of very small scratches on the hubcaps, but not much other than that. I was not charged anything except for the return fee. I was also about 9,000 miles under the mileage allowance for my lease term. The only glitch (and I'm not even really sure it's a glitch) is that they're having some trouble finding a carrier to come pick up my car. I'm sure that won't be an issue... just a slight delay.
I guess working with a local credit union is safe since they are pretty community oriented.
I've never understood the disposition fees some of them charge. I've never had to pay that on my GM leases that I've turned in.
I'm much like you in that I don't drive anywhere near as many miles as I'm supposed to. I turned in my '01 Cadillac STS in February, '04 (lease end 4/04) and I paid for 45k miles. It only had 21k miles when I turned it in. Mostly because I moved much closer to work during the lease but also because it was out a total of 2 months during the time I had it due to warranty repairs. The '03 Tahoe I'm turning in next month (lease end 12/04) is paid for 24k miles but I barely have 14k on it. At least I'm one of the lucky ones and when things change during my lease they are usually for the good!
I'm assuming that Nissan leaves the turn-in fee at the end and doesn't incorporate it as GM does?
I'm planning to pay the acquisition fee and first month's payment up front. Security deposit should be waived for me (my credit score is around 750), right? I didn't pay a security deposit on my Elantra.
Our tax amount on leased vehicles in NC is 3%. I'm confused about one thing, though: the Edmunds and Carsdirect sites both list invoice at $18,844, which (if the Lease Guide calculator is correct) puts my monthly payment right around $250 (including tax). I used .00193 money factor and 58% residual. Am I missing something?
Don't understand what you mean. Of course the lease has a profit margin built in but to just say arbitrarily that a disposition fee is built in is sort of broad. Of course the plumbing repair on the 2nd floor of the GMAC corporate office is built in also but it doesn't quite qualify as a "non-disclosed item".
If you take a GMAC lease and look at every other lease company out there (for the same vehicle) and GMAC has the Residual higher and the Money Factor lower then it is just a better deal. If those other companies have a disposition fee and any other fee tacked on to the end it's not fair to say "Oh that's built into the GMAC lease."
No that's not entirely correct. GMAC doesn't boost it's profit over the residual/money factor numbers with a "disposition fee" like Nissan and most other manufacturers do.
Yes, I am using MSRP to come up with residual amount. Invoice is what I'm hoping will be the negotiated amount. In other words, I'm hoping that my negotiating "powers" are really strong today... Otherwise, the Altima may be just outside of what I have budgeted to pay. The dealer seems very willing to "deal"... I don't think these cars are flying off the lots here in Asheville. But I could be wrong... in which case, it's back to the drawing boards and onto my second choice car.
including taxes @3%, i come up with $282 total. base payment of $274 plus 3%. this is with $832 total out of pocket.
GMAC does have an acquisition fee. they ALL do. this charge is a standard charge that pays for the vehicle to be trucked to wherever it goes when you turn it in. if you buy the car, then you subtract the amount of the acquisition fee from the residual, and add sales tax.
Yes, they all have an acquisition fee. If your logic is that they get it through the acquisition fee, why would the others have a disposition fee AND an acquisition fee then.
if you buy the car, then you subtract the amount of the acquisition fee from the residual, and add sales tax.
Where do you come up with that? I've worked with many GMAC leases when I was at the stores and they never subtracted the acquisition fee at the end if the person bought it. On the one that I sold a couple of months before lease end they didn't subtract it. That is why it is called an ACQUISITION fee.
The Lease Guide calculators are for base lease terms. Most Manufacturers have subsidized leases that are different. Usually a higher residual/lower money factor or both.
Car_Man on the leasing board will be able to get you the current NIMAC numbers you are looking for.
im using nissans software, which doesnt give the MF.
"My numbers from the Lease Guide calculator are way different."
this is why calculators for leases are not a good way to educate yourself. if you were using it for conventional financing, that one thing, but a lease calculator doesnt have the programming necessary to give you a true #. thats why i was asking where you got your MF.
I'm looking at lots of different scenarios. The first is information I got from Car_Man where (through NMAC) the residual is 60% and the MF is .00193. I dropped the residual to 58% in order to go with the 39 month lease. Then, I ran it through to see what would change if I went with a lower residual (54%) and higher MF (.0022) with the $1,000 rebate through a different bank. I don't understand why a website dedicated to giving lease (and only lease) information would have a calculator that didn't have the necessary programming. I input all the numbers (none are automatically provided by the site)... it just spits them out. When I have used a formula to come up with these numbers manually, I get the same thing that the calculator spits out.
Are there any Toyota dealers out there who know the schedule for updated information on the '05 Solara/convertible? I have an '05 that is scheduled to be at the dealership on 8/20 but I have no information on the '05s.
My dealer tells me that he has heard there will be a few changes on the coupe but did not know specifics.
Oh, I get it... thanks for clearing that up. And thank you so much for your suggestions and advice. You have been enormously helpful! I'm leaving right now to go get my new Altima. Wish me luck! I'll post back with my experience... to be continued.
One suggestion....Check the extended warranty contract. You may be able to cancel it for a adm. fee. Although the time you have had it may make a difference. Some companies allow it some don't.
If they do and you feel safe the Ax is not gonna be troublesome after mfr. warranty expires. You could put that $$$ in your pocket OR apply it to the financed amt. to lower your payments. Also if allowed.........
The dealers guys may be able to answer that one to be sure.......
They'd be covering three lease payments for you, with no benefit to Audi Corporate or a dealer - I'm it's in the fine print somewhere that you have to lease or purchase an Audi product.
Other manufacturers have run similar programs and that was always the deal.
Hi Copper. I am familiar with the program that you just mentioned. You must have a 2001 Audi A6. In order to take advantage of this promotion, you need to purchase or lease a new Audi through Audi Financial Services. There's no reason for AFS to let you out of your current deal early if there's nothing in it for them.
Hi Bowke. I didn't have much luck getting the car last night and I was hoping you could tell me how much over invoice you would be happy selling the car for... I certainly want the sales person I'm working with to get something out of the deal, but I also want to make sure that the price stays within my limits. Is $200 over invoice too small for the Altima? Just hoping to keep everyone smiling!
i dont care what i make on an altima. i make my real money on used cars. new ones are just for volume bonuses. i would sell altimas for invoice every day, as long as they are in-stock units.
Hmmm... Interesting response. Not what I was expecting. I don't think that's the mind frame of my salesman or his manager. I half expected them to follow me into the parking lot after I thanked them and left, but no. And no phone call today... although, I think I may call them back tomorrow and see if they are willing to negotiate a bit more. What do you think?
The invoice cost on the car I am looking at is $19,444. I offered $18,750 OTD after the $1,000 rebate and they said no go. I'm trying to decide how much more I should tack onto my offer. Their add'l fees are kind of steep in my opinion. $270 doc fees, $28 fee for checking my credit, $55 registration and plate fee, $9.10 for state inspection. I realize that all of this is included in the OTD price. Just thinking out loud...
I was told by a salesman that if someone traded in their current model year car for say a bigger one, they take a huge hit on the trade-in(Like normal) but that the next person who buys that traded in vehicle will get a really good deal. Basically a person trading in the same year will take a bigger hit than if they traded in when the next year models came out. In this instance they may not jack the price on this now 'used car' up as high as a brand new same model car? I did get a great deal however I was wondering how true it is overall.
and the first buyer may take a huge hit (especially on many domestics and on Korean models), but the next buyer gets the used car at normal used car market value - that's just the way it is.
Take a Taurus - probably the easiest example - buying a new SES for $21k, if the owner was foolish or wanting to lose major bucks, could trade the car after a year and 15k miles - they'd get anywhere from $8500-9500 depending on location. The second buyer of that Taurus could pick it up for $10500-11000 easily and have a nice car for cheap - that's just the way it works - no mysteries or urban legends to it.
Is it better to walk into a dealer with a trade (with not a lot of equity in it, I'm assuming, 2-3K when they are done hammering me)and a bit of cash, 3-4K, and dealer financing: OR pure cash (get my own cheap financing)? OR all the cash we can come up with and dealer financing?
I'm too scared to think about what they would give me for my trade, so Im trying to sell it privately. Don't know I'm doing the right thing, not.
You DEFINITELY want to get your financing taken care of before you go into the dealership. If they ask your rate and think they can beat it, let them try, but at least you will know going in what you qualify for.
As far as trade. I wouldn't let it be part of your negotiations. Do you have a Carmax near you? They consistently offer just about 1/2 way between low and high book for easy to sell vehicles.
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Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers Message Board
But 1 good thing is they deduct your trade in
allowance from the deal price. Then charge
sales tax on that. Then deduct rebate(s) etc.
and add tag, insp., etc........
Also, if we agree on the OTD price on the car and then get to the F&I table and the lease numbers (money factor, residual value, etc.) are not acceptable to me, is it bad form to walk out?
Thanks for any help you can provide!
Jana
I've even helped with bad form, as in being on the other end of the cellphone when my out of state buddy was in the F&I office - I had the F&I person copy and paste the "deal" screen into an e-mail to me before I'd give my buddy the "go ahead" to do the deal.
If you're concerned about appearances, simply take the numbers and take a coffee break out to your car or down the street. Then again, simply mentioning that "you have your laptop and you've been doing some figuring with your payment calculator" will make the numbers come out right, since they're sure to be checked.
Walking out of the office is an option that many people SHOULD choose, but don't. Instead, they log into Edmunds and complain about "getting taken" instead of taking personal responsibility and doing some thinking and researching before signing on the dotted line for a contract for thousands of dollars - after the fact is not the time to be concerned about what you're signing!!
Mitsubishi Motors has had many issues in Japan with hiding defects to avoid recalls and some corporate scandal issues. So yes, the US$5 Billion has a lot to do with issues in Japan.
nissanusa.com has a payment calculator for leases, and i would suggest using it. the payment it comes up with is before taxes, so factor that in, but it is VERY accurate.
invoice on a 2.5S with mats and muds is $19047. unfortunately, you dont get the rebate by leasing the altima. using invoice, with your 1st payment, acquisition fee, and cap cost reduction taxes as your initial payment of about $830 you should be in the $280 range plus sales tax on 39 months at 12k miles per year. this is assuming that you get the security deposit waived (over 720 beacon).
good luck and keep me posted.
Bowke, I understand that the $1,000 rebate can't be used on a lease with NMAC, but if I leased through a different bank, does that change this rule?
also, i always advise people not to go longer than 39 months on any lease, so dont let them talk you into longer.
Janamax - There are a few questions you should ask yourself prior to leasing (I'll tell you my story after I ask them.) Have you leased before? How long did you keep your last two cars before you started looking for a new one?
I say this because I am finally, after 4 leases (2 at a time), deciding that I'm not a lease person. I've never been one to keep a car more than 2 years and I had two 3 year leases and two 2 year leases. All four times I could hardly stand waiting until it ended. One of them I sold outright after two years (and made $880!) and two of them I paid off early and turned them in in the last 6 months.
39 Months is far too long for any Nissan as they only 36 month warranties. You don't seriously want to pay for repairs for a car you dont own do you?
I originally was just looking at 36 month leases, but then it occurred to me that I would rather have my lease end closer to year-end rather than in the summer. I don't drive many miles at all, so I'm not too concerned about a three month span after the 3 year warranty is up. I am really good about keeping up with routine maintenance, so I hope that the car doesn't decide to die on me in out-of-warranty land... though I know that's a risk I may have to take.
I don't really get that "itch" to go out and buy a new car. 48 months worked fine on the Hyundai bc they have a 5-yr b2b and 10-yr powertrain warranty, so I was well within range there. I was definitely ready for the 48 months to be over, but I knew that rolling over negative equity didn't make sense to me... the Elantra has been great... just ready for something a little nicer now.
I know that 39 months leaves a 3-month window with no warranty, but (as I mentioned in my post above) I think the Altima will make it through that relatively small time span okay.
I agree with Bowke about the Manufacturer leases also.
Mine is more consumer oriented though. When I was in the business and since I have heard many stories about the bank leases and the way they nickle and dime you to death at lease end. (Most people would assume that "normal wear and tear" of a 3 year old car means having a few door dings, rock chips, etc. but the banks literally want you to bring it back like it is brand new) I've only used GM but they are really liberal when it comes to understanding that small dings and chips do happen.
Happy Altima to you!
I've never understood the disposition fees some of them charge. I've never had to pay that on my GM leases that I've turned in.
I'm much like you in that I don't drive anywhere near as many miles as I'm supposed to. I turned in my '01 Cadillac STS in February, '04 (lease end 4/04) and I paid for 45k miles. It only had 21k miles when I turned it in. Mostly because I moved much closer to work during the lease but also because it was out a total of 2 months during the time I had it due to warranty repairs. The '03 Tahoe I'm turning in next month (lease end 12/04) is paid for 24k miles but I barely have 14k on it. At least I'm one of the lucky ones and when things change during my lease they are usually for the good!
thats because ford and GM incorporate it into the lease payment. you DO pay it, but they dont disclose it.
jan, you WILL pay the $550 acquisition fee one way or another. i would pay it up front, if you can, so you dont have to pay interest on it.
if your taxes are 6% like KY is, then your payment should be under $300 OTD.
I'm planning to pay the acquisition fee and first month's payment up front. Security deposit should be waived for me (my credit score is around 750), right? I didn't pay a security deposit on my Elantra.
Our tax amount on leased vehicles in NC is 3%. I'm confused about one thing, though: the Edmunds and Carsdirect sites both list invoice at $18,844, which (if the Lease Guide calculator is correct) puts my monthly payment right around $250 (including tax). I used .00193 money factor and 58% residual. Am I missing something?
If you take a GMAC lease and look at every other lease company out there (for the same vehicle) and GMAC has the Residual higher and the Money Factor lower then it is just a better deal. If those other companies have a disposition fee and any other fee tacked on to the end it's not fair to say "Oh that's built into the GMAC lease."
i dont know the money factor. where did you find it?
also, if you dont pay the acquisition fee upfront, it will be put on top of each payment.
GMAC does have an acquisition fee. they ALL do. this charge is a standard charge that pays for the vehicle to be trucked to wherever it goes when you turn it in. if you buy the car, then you subtract the amount of the acquisition fee from the residual, and add sales tax.
if you buy the car, then you subtract the amount of the acquisition fee from the residual, and add sales tax.
Where do you come up with that? I've worked with many GMAC leases when I was at the stores and they never subtracted the acquisition fee at the end if the person bought it. On the one that I sold a couple of months before lease end they didn't subtract it. That is why it is called an ACQUISITION fee.
Car_Man on the leasing board will be able to get you the current NIMAC numbers you are looking for.
BOWKE also, I assume.
"My numbers from the Lease Guide calculator are way different."
this is why calculators for leases are not a good way to educate yourself. if you were using it for conventional financing, that one thing, but a lease calculator doesnt have the programming necessary to give you a true #. thats why i was asking where you got your MF.
Here's the formula I use:
Depreciation Fee = (Net Cap Cost - Residual)/Term in months
Finance Fee = (Net Cap Cost + Residual) * Money Factor
Monthly Payment = Depreciation Fee + Finance Fee (before tax)
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My dealer tells me that he has heard there will be a few changes on the coupe but did not know specifics.
Being on the outside sucks sometimes!
You may be able to cancel it for a adm. fee. Although the time you have had it may make a difference. Some companies allow it some don't.
If they do and you feel safe the Ax is not gonna be troublesome after mfr. warranty expires. You could put that $$$ in your pocket OR apply it to the financed amt. to lower your payments. Also if allowed.........
The dealers guys may be able to answer that one to be sure.......
What if I don't buy another Audi, can I still take advantage of this? And just let the dealer keep the $500?
Thanks,
Copper
Other manufacturers have run similar programs and that was always the deal.
Car_man
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Smart Shoppers Message Board
Guess i'll have to wait a few more months.
Carman...disregard the duplicate post on the lease thread.
Copper
The invoice cost on the car I am looking at is $19,444. I offered $18,750 OTD after the $1,000 rebate and they said no go. I'm trying to decide how much more I should tack onto my offer. Their add'l fees are kind of steep in my opinion. $270 doc fees, $28 fee for checking my credit, $55 registration and plate fee, $9.10 for state inspection. I realize that all of this is included in the OTD price. Just thinking out loud...
Take a Taurus - probably the easiest example - buying a new SES for $21k, if the owner was foolish or wanting to lose major bucks, could trade the car after a year and 15k miles - they'd get anywhere from $8500-9500 depending on location. The second buyer of that Taurus could pick it up for $10500-11000 easily and have a nice car for cheap - that's just the way it works - no mysteries or urban legends to it.
I'm too scared to think about what they would give me for my trade, so Im trying to sell it privately. Don't know I'm doing the right thing, not.
As far as trade. I wouldn't let it be part of your negotiations. Do you have a Carmax near you? They consistently offer just about 1/2 way between low and high book for easy to sell vehicles.