Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

bowke28

right...we just need to figure out what you want and when its available...

BTW...the '05 order guide is here now...when i get my hands on it, ill get on messenger.

driftracer

I was just commenting that in the last 3 years, if I "know" of a dealership, that's not a good thing, except yours, of course!

Can't do anything until about November to start an order, but then, it's Katie bar the door!

bowke28

werent ringing me...its just so dead here right now, that i was bored....lol.

driftracer

What the heck has happened to our beloved Edmunds? It's very depressing....

akangl

Got our beloved Ford salesman working a deal on an 04 (new) F-350 as we speak. He said shouldn't be a problem with the rebates and all. I think we are about $5k/$6k flipped in the ole Dodge, depending on where they hit it. We bought it from them, so maybe they will be nice.

jasmith52

I went into an Audi dealer the other day and had a similar experience with the low-pressure sales technique. I parked out by the curb and strolled onto the lot. I examined a number of cars on the lot before I entered the sales room. All of the cars on the salesroom floor were open and I sat in most of them to see how they fit. I was probably in the sales office a good ten minutes or more with absolutely no attention.

So I got antsy and strolled back out to the car-lot. Just outside of the sales office were a number of cars that were open, so I sat in the TT coupe that I liked. I started to press some of the buttons and flip through the glove box just to get a feel for the car. Finally I flipped down the sun-visor to see the visibility with it down. As I dropped down the sun-visor the keys to the car fell in my lap.

Well it had been maybe 20 minutes since I had come onto the lot, I really wanted to talk to someone about the TT coupe but still nobody had approached me. In a bit of frustration I decided to just startup the car to hear the engine. Surely that would get someone’s attention. I started it up, it sounded great but still nobody came out to see me.

I then decided to back the car up so that I would be more clearly noticed to any of the sales staff inside the sales office. Surprisingly, still nobody came out to meet me. I then tapped the horn a few times with the same result. These guys are really asleep or this was the most low pressure sales technique ever.

I then drove the car forward and then backed up in front of the sales office again and tapped the horn. Still no reaction !

So – Perhaps in poor judgement I decided to take the car for a little spin around the lot. I drove all the way around their huge lot (VW and Audi dealer) and pulled back up in front of the sales office and honked the horn a long time. Still nobody came out. So I drove it again around the lot, But this time I pushed the car hard around some of the corners that weren’t filled up with nearby cars letting the tires squeal a bit.

There was another customer also looking at the TT convertible. He felt the same way about not being talked to. I showed him where the keys were to the other TT convertible. So we decided to have a little road rally around the dealership ( The coupe versus the convertible). We enjoyed the cars and raced them a little around the dealership. It was kind of like going to the Go-cart track or something.

After awhile though I really wanted to talk some turkey about a deal on the car so I pulled up infront of the sales office. I then left the car running and again went into the sales office and spotted a couple of guys that I assumed were sales people. I said “ would you guys like to show me the TT coupe out front ?” They looked up and said that they will help me right away. So I went out to the car and waited a very long time for some help. At this point I was beginning to think that they didn’t really want my business or didn’t think that I would buy the car (or something – who knows). Finally after waiting quite abit longer I left thinking that they must have important stuff to do.

The TT is a great little car but this low pressure sales technique is a bit ridiculous.

bowke28

try as hard as you can to find an acquaintance that works for ford or a supplier of ford. x-plan can make a HUGE difference if you can work it out.

bowke28

so which way do you want it???

you and i have gone round and round about sales techniques, but with my way, you can actually BUY the car. ;-)

akangl

We are getting the truck for invoice, I don't know anybody who works for ford or a supplier.

We are looking at a new 2004 F-350 XL 6.0PSD/auto SRW, MSRP of $39010, invoice is $34500 or something like that, I forgot.

Hubby did want an XLT, but we couldn't justify the $6500 price difference between the 2 trucks that we were looking at (the XL and XLT). Plus for what he's doing the XL is actually better, easier interior to clean.

I told him if he whines about this truck I'm going to bury both him and the darn truck.

bowke28

good stuff, kiddo. x-plan is only about $500 under invoice anyway. if you can get it foir invoice, jump!

jasmith52

The contrasting technique to Low pressure auto sales can be found at any chrysler dealership:

As you drive up to the lot you can see the auto sales guys standing around, eyeing their potential prey. You take one step onto the lot, (or even stay on the sidewalk). And you'll get Salvadore - the test salesman with the "May I help you" tome'

You say something like - "I want a 79 Lincoln Mark V with a stereo 8-track". You may (or may not) get a chance to actually sit and perhaps even drive the car before Dexter the lead sales guy is on you like a hungry buzzard with a fresh road kill. Dexter looks and sounds like a nice enough person, but there's just something about him that makes you uneasy.

Soon you will be surrounded by Dexter, Salvadore and the other pack of salivating wolves where they talk up a good story about "THAT INCREDIBLE AMAZING NEON". You'll make a few feeble attempts at getting out of this situation. You might plead - "what about my 350 FICO score" or "I need this down payment money for Mom's operation". But alas you will be pushed and shoved by the pack into - "THE SALES OFFICE"....

In the sales office you will be introduced to Guido the closer. Or "Guido the Hutt" as he is referred to at the Chrysler dealership. You'll plead - "please no, please no, Have mercy on me !- Not Guido the Hutt! Guido will thrash and contort your petty arguments until you agree to make - "THE OFFER" at which point the dreaded torture instrument - the four-square chart is produced. This instrument of torture has been used with devastating results on many a poor victim.

You think that just maybe you'll get out of this by making a lowball offer. But no, silly mortal, your offer must then be, like a bad James Bond movie, approved by the mysterious and powerful sales manager behind the frosted glass. This is the man who has your fate in his hands. Your happiness or ultimate demise rests with this mysterious man. This mysterious sales manager has a panel of control buttons at his fingertips. Should one of the salesmen not meet their quota then the sales manager just presses a button on the control panel to electrocute or gas the underperforming staff member. A hole then opens in the floor into which the lifeless salesman's body is then automatically dumped for disposal.

Because of the enormous enforcement power of the sales manager, the whole staff lives in absolute fear and will do anything to extract the maximum dollar amount from you - the helpless victim.

As you can see you are helpless in this situation. You have no choice but to purchase that wretched Neon at a cost that would make the national budget look small.

So that's the opposite of Low pressure sales techniques that is practiced at Chrysler dealerships.

driftracer

but you have way too much time on your hands...

npaladin2000

Actually, there's a Ford dealer here that pretty much operates the same way. You're lucky to get out of there with your watch.

Funny, their sales aren't too good from what I hear...not with the nice guys over at the other Ford dealership about 10 miles away. They're tough negotiators, true, but they aren't slimeball high pressure guys.

Seems like thing work well when you save the high-powered stuff for when someone has decided they want the car, rather than trying to pressure them INTO "wanting the car."

akangl

I trust the salesguy at Cal, he's a good man. We bought the Dodge and the 04 Explorer from him. Do the deal over the phone, he has the truck ready when we get there, sign and drive, no muss no fuss.

Now as long as the approval with Ford Credit goes through we are picking the truck up on Friday. Actually hubby and daughter will pick the truck, I've got too many errands to run.

mfullmer

Hey all. I've purchased several cars here in the Atlanta area over the past 5 years and every time I do the dealer wants to charge a "Dealer Prep" fee. I've usually been able to negotiate this fee down or away but those were all GM dealers and a Lexus dealer.

Now I've ordered a MINI Cooper and the dealer is mentioning a $595 Dealer Prep fee.

What do you all think of this? I've also heard they charge a $399 doc fee - sort of outrageous.

rroyce10

....... Slaaaaap ..!! ~ wake up Mfullmer.! .. remember.? .. you use to be in the car biz, your Mom owned 27 dealerships and all that.?

           The Mini's were burning down the house 2 years ago .. they were getting ALL the money, dealers were takin' them to the auctions and gettin' $500/$600 over MSRP and Chevy dealers were selling them for more -- but that was 2 years ago, now there like hemorrhoids, there all over the place .. you should know there is no dealer prep, they get paid 2.2hrs (IIRC) from the factory for PDI, so unless your having a digital main link set up for the Space Shuttle, I would pass on that charge .. check to see if the $399 is on the contract.

                            Terry.

bowke28

so everyone...

does this count for the pool on jolie?

friday, july 16th, 2004.

i dont think ANYONE came up with this one! lol

grandtotal

Put me down for next purchase on or before Dec11^th 2004.

bowke28

im in for march 18th, 2005...

i think they like the titan ALOT...

in march, they will get a beater to put miles on.

tornado25

...here we go!

I take...January 5th, 2005. They'll still be racking up miles on the Titan and Jolie will need something for a day-long trip to the grocery store.

mfullmer

I never said we had 27 dealerships! Hey, that was California and American makes, except for one MB. Like I said, every one here in Atlanta has tried to charge that Dealer Prep fee. On every one, except the Lexus, I didn't pay it but the Lexus I talked them down to $99.

This is my first venture into BMW territory and I jus wasn't sure if they were paid the same PDI from the factory.

There is no contract as of yet. Only the order with the MSRP on it, circled saying "Sales Price" and initialed by the SM. The saleswoman mentioned the $595 Dealer Prep fee and I heard from a MINI board that this dealership charges $399 for Doc fees.

mfullmer

So much for "There are no dumb questions". I hope you don't treat your colleagues like that.

When you're out of the business for 6+ years, you HAVE to ask questions.

butchbr73

she liked the explorer ALOT, too.... they also liked the Dodge ALOT... i'm in for the end of the winter, the Titan is gone b/c of gas mileage, so they'll move into something else.

ddelise

All -

I am eligible through my employer for the Chrysler Affiliates program. In short, I get 1% under invoice, + all available rebates. In addition, there is an additional affliate rebate of $1000 that can be added to any deal. So, I am looking at a 2004 Pacifica. $33,000 MSRP, $30,800 invoice, $30,500 selling price - $4000 rebate - $1000 Chrysler Financial Rebate - $1000 Affiliate rebate = $24500 final price.

I am looking to lease (no security deposit and no dealer fee!), so I can get a $0 out of pocket lease (all other starts including first month payment rolled into lease) for 36 months for $315+tax/month.

Seems to me like a great deal.

Question to you all is - any reason I should look at a 2005 instead. Since I am leasing I think it won't matter, but want to hear your opinion.

Are there any other dealer add-ons I should be aware of?

Also, even though this is on the affiliate program, any thing else I can ask for the dealer to 'sweeten' the deal - maybe something like free window tint or something?

I've learned it never hurts to ask, and as Gordon Gecco once said - "Greed is good". Just kidding.

Thanks Much - Damon

akangl

The Titan is 10x the truck the Exploder was and gets better fuel economy. IF we get a diesel we won't be racking up miles on the Titan. Course that could all change and I could trade it for a Focus next week (just kidding). Seriously though, I've wanted a 1/2 ton short bed truck for years, hubby said SUVs/minivans/cars, we finally saw eye to eye on the Titan.

We do like the Dodge V10, but don't do repair bills (or the HUGE fuel bill). If this doesn't work out now, we'll pay the truck off in 6 mos, sell it, and buy a new one then.

However, we will probably buy a cheap small car in the next year or so. Remember, to get groceries/go to the dr/movies/anything is a 200 mile round trip.

bowke28

thats a definite catch-22 there.

with leasing, the residual and MF will be better on the '05, so your payment might not be alot different...but it might.

the thing i would fear is that if you wait, you lose the current opportunity. grab it while you got it. with leasing, it wont matter.

i work for a ford store in a city with 2 ford plants (louisville, ky). 93% of our new ford business is supplier/employee pricing. the manufacturer sets this deal, and we cant change it, whether that change be more or less.

if they "throw something in", then they take a chance of losing their employee/supplier pricing priveledge. please dont put the dealer in that position.

ddelise

Thanks for the information. I would not want to put anyone in a bad spot, so I won't go there.

I agree with you - the monthly price for this car right now is very good - better to take advantage now, be happy, and not press my luck.

Damon

rroyce10

..... ** I hope you don't treat your colleagues like that **

                      I never have .. next time, ask your Mom, she's the one with the horsepower, not you ...................

                          

                                Terry.

mfullmer

...she's the one with the horsepower, not you...

What exactly does that statement mean? Of course I don't know it, that is why I asked. My mother doesn't know the slightest thing about "Dealer Prep" fees in Georgia. She's never even been to Georgia (as far as I know). None of her dealerships ever charged a "Dealer Prep" fee.

Since this thread is titled "Any Questions for a Car Dealer?" and is by no means your personal territory, I'll go ahead and keep asking questions here, thank you very much. One would have to wonder why it is you even lurk here if you treat questions as gross ignorance.

There are many people out there, unlike yourself obviously, who don't know every detail about every aspect of the industry. I certainly didn't know everything about the business when I WAS in it so I have no problem asking questions now.

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi Damon. It's nice to be able to purchase vehicles through supplier purchase programs, isn't it? No haggling to worry about, etc... Bowke28 was correct when he stated that the residual value will be higher for a 2005 Pacifica than it will be for a 2004 Pacifica right now, but he was wrong in assuming that the '05 will have a more attractive lease money factor. The 2004 Pacifica has lower lease money factors than the 2005 model does right now. The difference in these vehicles residual values, a significant 8% for most terms, will make the '05's lease payment much closer to the '04's than one would initially suspect. However, I believe that the '04 will still cost less to lease right now, when one takes the lower money factor and the $3,000 additional lease cash that it has on it into account. Since there is not much of a difference between these two models, I personally would be inclined to go with the less expensive 2004 Pacifica if I was in your situation. I doubt that you will be able to get your dealer to give you any additional discounts than the one that is already provided through this program.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Hi everyone. Remember that the Edmunds.com Town Hall Town Hall Rules of the Road clearly states:

"2. Courtesy is mandatory
 
Town Hall insists that users be courteous. We understand that our users are passionate about vehicles, and furthermore that sometimes you are right and someone else is wrong, and worse -- they won't admit it. But remember, ultimately Town Hall is about autos not egos."

Let's all try to get along. Thanks.

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audia8q

one word about 'courtesy' and the whole room goes dead....you and your wet blanket. LOL

well everyone...I'm off to Florida tomorrow night...so the fish need to be on alert. I plan on catching a record number of them. Going to my first Marlin's game also.
No customers, No trade in appraisals, No whining salespeople, I won't know what to do.

If anyone would like to buy me a drink while I'm sitting on the beach, just email me your mastercard number. I promise to only buy one;)

driftracer

Look up Terry while you're there, I hear he's loaded! And has money, too!

Have a good one!

bluenoser1

Sorry to post this in more than one location but I need some advice quickly. I brought my 2003 MDX into the dealer to fix a broken gas gauge and while replacing the gauge they reset the vehicle odometer! Not just the trip odometer, the vehicle odometer. It now reads 30 miles! I know this will definitely affect the resale value of my vehicle. Has this happened to anyone? Do you have any advice? I’ve spoken to the dealer on phone; a face-to-face discussion is scheduled for later today. They suggested they would provide me with a letter certifying the vehicle odometer has been reset, and the actual miles are XXXXX. I said this was not acceptable. This was where I left it until we meet with the dealer this afternoon. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m not mentioning the name of the dealership at this point, as I would like to give them an opportunity to make this right. Oh, one other thing, when I picked up the vehicle last night I found that while it was in their shop, someone hit it! They did however say they would fix it. Thanks for you help.

qbrozen

good grief! Are you sure you got the same car back???

mfullmer

Wow, I can't wait to hear how this one plays out.

Here in Georgia the dealer has to file an "Odometer Malfunction Change Notice" with the State DMV. The state then issues a plaque that is affixed to the vehicle stating the date, original miles, new miles. That shouldn't change the resell value though.

Regarding the damage. That's great they are going to fix it, however I would only settle on a fix and an amount, calculated from an outside source, for the hit the car will take in value upon sale.

kyfdx

I think you have a right to be concerned, though I'm not sure what the solution is. With all the cars out there, I just pass by any that have odometer "issues", no matter what the explanation is.

regards,
kyfdx

steine13

the ugly fact is, unless the dealer can miraculously put the old numbers back on the odo, the car will become TMU (true miles unknown). and it will be worth 2/3 of the "normal" price, if that.
congratulations.
on a private sale to an individual who can follow your paper trail, and who doesn't know how this works, you *may* come out okay.
at the aucion -- and a trade-in time at any dealer other than the one who screwed it up :-) -- it will be just another TMU sled.
your dealer, i'm afraid, owes you some bucks.
while we're at it, paint work isn't good for resale, either. who's the owner, vlad the impaler?

-mathias

driftracer

I've had instrument clusters fail and require replacement, the same with Body Control Modules (BCMs) that have odometer control - in those cases where the odometer reading changes, properly filed paperwork takes the place of the odometer reading that was there previously.

That being said, it's NOT a TMU vehicle - just one that the odometer was replaced on - we know EXACTLY how many miles there are - just add what's on it to the previous reading, and for all intents and purposes, you should be OK.

Then again, if I were to choose between a Lexus with a normal odometer and one that had been changed, even under warranty, I'd choose the one without the automatic questions attached.

Is there a difference in actual value? Sure. Could there be a diminished value claim? No, because using appraiser's attitudes towards a vehicle doesn't take away from the fact that a proper repair was done by a Lexus-authorized service facility under Lexus warranty.

There's no legal basis for a claim.

kyfdx

But, as you said..... you wouldn't buy it, either.. I'd be upset... not to mention, they've caused collision damage. Oops.. just did mention it.

driftracer

with nothing to do about it - I mean instrument clusters are just electrical parts in a machine - they DO fail, and the only way to correct it is to replace them.

What I'm wondering is why can't an advanced company like Lexus do what Chrysler does when they have to replace a BCM - one I can specifically remember in 2001 was were the BCM was failing and was causing all kinds of glitches with the power locks and windows.

STAR, Chrysler's tech line called us for an exact odometer reading, they plugged that number into the new BCM, we grounded the van (so the miles would be right), and they overnighted the new module - the module was changed, and the mileage stayed the same.

Why couldn't Lexus and the dealership do the same thing and avoid all this?

rroyce10

......... VW's were notorious for it until the late 90's .. have a hick-up and the BCM klicks it back to -0- ....

             Drift is right .. it's not a legal/dealer thing, it's not a TMU thing - it's a manufacturer/service/fix it under warranty thing .. they will put the new module in, "Fed sticker" the door, send the service history nationwide, then make sure you get ALL the paperwork, service, letter from Acura Corporate stating the occurance and all the details - you will be "told" it won't effect the value (depending on the time, what part of the universe and the barometric pressure) ..

                   That being said: most dealers don't like telling that story to the next set of customers when they go to sell it (so that shoots half your market) and it must be declared at auction as an "manufactures repair" (Fed sticker in the door, paperwork in the glove box) some will shy away and pass, and some will stand in and bid, me I would pass .....

              Oh yeah, and don't forget to get the ding fixed .l.o.l..

                           Terry.

hullabaloo

I'm looking for a 2004 BMW X3 2.5. I'm attempting to conduct as much of the sales negotiation via email as possible (prefer this rather than phone). I've received the following offers: $500 over invoice+ 2.9% financing, $400 over invoice with 2.9% financing (1.9% is offered through BMW according to edmunds); invoice price and financing unknown. Is the invoice "bid" a lowball where the guy wants to make the price up elsewhere (extra points on financing, for example?) The last guy seemed really pushy and emotional-- not necessarily one I'd prefer to do business with. Should I be pushing harder on the financing percent or is it "typical" for dealers to claim 1 point? Also, any real-world advice on negotiating the value of a tradein (is there anything that can be done on this in advance of bringing it in to the dealer?)

mfullmer

Whoa! Get thyself to the Edmunds finance section immediately. Read, learn and practice! DO NOT, especially through email, negotiate the price according to the finance terms, they have nothing to do with each other (as far as you are concerned). You are paying the dealer for the car, not financing through them. If you want to go with BMW, use their online application process to qualify. If you don't, get your financing elsewhere but definitely not through the dealer.

Your purchase price should be just that, the purchase price. It has nothing to do with how they get the money (again, as far as you are concerned). CarsDirect has their price $200 lower than MSRP so anything higher than MSRP is not justified.

gari

Hi again!!

It's me - 2003 Nissan Xterra XE in Los Angeles. I've had no luck selling the car privately and I'm moving in 2 weeks. On the advice of a person who posted on Edmunds, I took the car to CARMAX. They will buy me out of my lease which is great news.

However, the price they are offering is pretty low and I'll end up taking a loss of about $3700. Now, I'm willing to do this if I have to, but I wanted to run it by CARMAN to see if he's got any comments/suggestions etc.

Thanks in advance!!!

klide

That is a completely negotiable fee, it's pre-printed on the form to make you think it is charged on all deals, and it is unless you draw a line through it and say thats a deal breaker, it is. The only fees that are not negotiable are the title transfer fees, the plate or tag fees, and the sales tax.( tag,title & tax)

bowke28

actually, the laws state that if one person is charged that amount, everyone has to be, so dont cross it out. all you will do is tick off the salesman because he has to rewrite the whole thing.

if you want it removed, simply ask for the bottom line to be adjusted accordingly.

BTW, you shouldnt care what fees are involved. make the bottom line your offer, and you wont have to worry whether they have a doc fee or xfer fee or belly button lint fee.

hullabaloo

MFullmer, thanks for the thoughts and timely warning. It appears that you misread the deal: $400 over Invoice not MSRP. Also, I did negotiate the price of the car prior to introducing financing. Since the financing rate is way lower than anything third-party banks offer, I'm wondering when one negotiates this if not after the car price (and why wouldn't I want to take advantage of it, if it's half the rate of other rates)? I did check out the BMW site and went ahead and filled out the app-- though they don't say anything about the rate and it appears to be more of a lead-gen tool than anything.
Any thoughts?

klide

What law are you referring to? Your particular state law? Because I know there is no federal law, you can look in the UCC's or the US Code or the Code of Federal Regulation you won't find anything addressing that. So please tell us what state statute you are referring to. In the State of Florida there is no such state statute and I doubt there is in any other state.

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi hullabaloo. Both of the selling prices that you were quoted for the 2004 X3 that you are interested in, $400 and $500 over invoice, are reasonable. The only problem that I have with the quotes that you have been given is the finance rate. BMW is currently offering 1.9% financing for up to 5 years on 2004 X3 models financed through BMW Financial Services. I believe that individual dealers do have the right to mark up the financing rates that are being offered through this program, but you should be able to get them back down to the 1.9% base rate without too much trouble by haggling a little bit.

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