I have read this group for a while and am still amazed at the perception we (I) receive from the general public. My 1st post was "In defense of the biz" In reply to "what is fair." Fair is when YOU (the consumer) are OK with the deal. Believe me; I will NOT sell a car for a fifty dollar mini commission; the newbies might; I will not! My smallest gross profit customers are my worst customers They want the world after the sale! You get paid to work and so do I! When I sell a car; I sell the car! I am there after the sale! I try to look out for MY customers best interest I do not lie; cheat or omit..I sell by the golden rule..as I said earlier in a post, when I 1st got into the profession of selling vehicles, I started honest and remain that way now..at 1st my living was lousy, now I make a great living. My referrals are my prime source of income and I rarely take a fresh 'Up." I do not believe there are bad dealerships; only bad salespeople! A good salesperson does NOT work at a bad dealership. The internet is a great source for "fair" pricing; but it is NOT the end all! I love internet shoppers actually; who come in armed with reams of data. If ALL they want is price w/o regard to the vehicle itself, then more power to them and good luck! All cars (used cars) are NOT the same. I love when they say 'I saw the same car down the road, same miles, color, options etc; for $5,000 less" Yeah; and I have some swamp land for sale in AZ. Please! I think anyone who buys cars should be a salesman for a day! LOL To those of you who have never sold big ticket merchandise; you'd be amazed at what we hear, day after day after day. "What's your bottom dollar?" "I have to think about it” “I need to pray” “You are the first place we stopped” “I only have 5 mins” We as Americans LOVE to negotiate! Argue all you want and say you don’t like to negotiate. BULL! Yes you do! Ask any veteran salesperson to agree to a price before his/her customer drives the car, hears about the features, advantages and benefits. Guess what? The car will NOT be sold to that person! They will want more $$$ off!..if they buy it at all! “SALES” is derived from the latin word “To Persuade”..NOT pressure! Few salespeople understand this concept! Left to our own, including me; I will not make a big dollar purchase unless I am sold..I WANT to be sold..I WANT to see and understand the value. If all we had to do was look at vehicles, pick one and buy it, then what would we have? K-Mart! I doubt most people want a K-Mart atmosphere when buying a car. I want a informed salesperson, a professional! Do you negotiate the fee with your doctor? Do you want the amateur taking out your appendix? Did you see the same operation down the street for 5K less? LOL If I TRUST my professional..In ANY service related industry, I WILL pay more for his/her services! TRUST does have value; monetary value! I wish I were a better writer; I would write a book about how to buy a car, negotiations etc..It would NOT include how to beat up the salesperson to secure yourself a wholesale buy! If you want a wholesale buy, go to the auction.
You make some excellent points, and like Isell, audia and driftracer, you seem to be a knowledgeable pro.
The only place where I might quibble in your post is your statement that buyers want to be sold on a vehicle. In many, perhaps most cases, that is true. But, there are some of us who know exactly what we want and we simply want to work a deal ASAP.
My recent shopping excursions got tedious because each salesman went through a walk around of each car I looked at before I could test drive it. I understand that this is part of their job, and the salespeople were for the most part knowledgable, but it added a half hour to each visit.
Yes. MOST people want to be sold..i.e..see the rationale for choosing this one over that one. In your situation, had you been my guest, (I refer to all my customers as guests) and had you communicated that you know which car you wanted, I would just get right to it with ya. Tell me what you found, what you WILL pay. I will also assume you are NOT jerking me around and need to think about it. LOL I hope you are talking about a used car, because if it is new, then there really are no reson for a test drive if you know what you want. As far as used cars; they are NOT all the same, I;ve seen two cars.... the same model, year,options same miles etc..and the two are vastly different! Depends who owned them, how they were taken care of etc. The pre-owned cars in our dept really do stand tall. We don't put crap on the street. We also recondition them beyond just an oil change. You can probably buy the same pre-owned car I sell; down the street for $500-750 less, but that is because we average $500-750 in REAL reconditioning, inspection etc per car! That means YOU don't have too. So; you can pay the $750 higher now..or pay maybe $1,500 a yr from now when it breaks down..up to you.
There are bad dealerships.... You can tell the ones where it comes down from the top through sales management to salespeople. Bad salespeople are generally schooled to be that way.
What is the profit margin on a vehicle sold for msrp anyway? I have heard anywhere between 3 to 6%, I assume that it varies with the type of vehicle, ie. cars being lower than trucks or SUV's. What about mini vans?
We as Americans LOVE to negotiate when buying a car - BECAUSE that is the only purchase that you can negotiate in the US.
When you go to Macy's to buy clothes, u cannot negotiate. When you go to home depot to buy a carpet, u cannot negotiate. when you go to toys-r-us to buy toys, u cannot negotiate. when u go to the produce store to buy vegetables/fruits, u cannot negotiate. when u go to circuit-city to buy an audio/video/home-theatre u cannot negotiate.
No wonder no American wants up to give up that ONE chance s/he gets to negotiate once in maybe 5 years.
In the rest of the world, especially India, u CAN negotiate for almost all of your purchases, save for gas and utilities.
In 5 of our last 6 car purchases, the sales person agreed to our price before we even drove the car.
You don't have to put on a song and dance for all customers. Some of us are interested in the car, not the sales person. Your main purpose is to carry our offer to the sales manager without losing it.
Yeah, Kmart has some cute business suits. When I find one I like, I sit there until the blue light comes on so I can save $4.99.
First you need to quit holding it all in. Tell us how you really feel... :-)
Seriously, You bring up some good points but I unfortunately believe at the greenpea factory stores they do teach them the pressure sale not the persuasion style which I am much more amenable to. So there are bad dealers ( as some of the other pros can attest to).
I also believe that you need to test drive even a new car to see if it meets your physical wants & needs but overall I'd say you were right on.
Bobst- I just can't believe that you wait for the blue light at Kmart. I just figured you'd say I'm not paying anymore then X for this product and if they don't take your offer you go to the Kmart down the road... :-)
What sales seminar was this from? According to Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: sale Pronunciation: 'sA(&)l Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English sala, from Old Norse -- more at SELL 1 : the act of selling; specifically : the transfer of ownership of and title to property from one person to another for a price
Car buying is the main time for negotiating, that's true, but not the only one by any means. Buying a home...lot's of negotiation. Buying furniture...unless you want to pay extra for the "1 year,no payment" bit, and you can pay cash, you should be able to get at least 15-20% off or even more. Buying jewelry...anyone who doesn't dicker on the price of jewelry is nuts, IMHO, they really are.
It can be loads of fun to negotiate just about anything, once people let themselves do it. Heck, I'll try to find a discount on just about anything, I just have to ask. Most folks assume the price on some merchandise is set in stone, except for car buying. That assumption costs most of us lots of extra cash that we could save just by asking "What's the best price you can give?" You'd be surprised at the kinds of things that can be negotiated just by asking.
A few weeks ago I posted up some question/discussion, and I figured I'd close the loop with what happened to me.
I ended up selling my fiance's 2000 Alero GLS Coupe, 20,800 miles but a TON of problems (already had a whole new steering unit), it was creaking and rattling, rough idle, etc, to CarMax for $7,100, which I thought was a pretty decent price.
After much (and I do mean much) shopping, I purchased a 2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx LS with the 1sb package (adding head airbags, power seat, rear audio and some floor mats) for $16997, not including my $912 GM car discount. I found a dealer over the internet who was willing to give me the car for Invoice minus the holdback, so it went for $675 under invoice, per the factory paper which he sent to me. It was also the only blue Maxx optioned that way in VA and Maryland.
So far, we're very pleased with the car (I can't believe this thing is not selling, you wouldn't believe what a great car it is, especially the multi-flex seating which is downright revolutionary) and with the deal I got. I think I might have been able to do a tad bit better elsewhere, but I wanted this particular car so it was worth it to stop shopping. So that's it for me.
And in the process, I found a nice, honest, straightfoward dealer (Anderson in Baltimore, MD) that gave me their price and didn't screw around, didn't even charge me a doc fee. So it can be done!
>>So far, we're very pleased with the car (I can't believe this thing is not selling, you wouldn't believe what a great car it is, especially the multi-flex seating which is downright revolutionary) <<
Depends on the market. I was talking to a GM Regional Manager in Milwaukee who was telling me that they were moving quite well.
Personally, from first glance, I prefer the Impala which are not that much more if you shop around.
Well, I guess you don't like Fords and thats OK. I don't own one, but the truth of the matter is that the Vulcan motor has proven to be very reliable. There were a few head gasket issues early on. You must have forgotten that Motor Trend named the previous design Car of the Year several years back. And don't forget, that the Taurus was the number one seller in the country for several years, before the '96 redesign. It is still used widely in fleets and has proven to be reliable. I have several friends who have purchased low miles used ones and have been very happy. Apparently you would be happy with a Yugo or a Daewoo......strange..............
I will echo what has been said above. There are very, very, bad dealerships. Used cars, many are nearly the same. I just purchased a used Mitsubishi Galant ES-2003. There are tons out there. I think Mitsubishi is using these "off rentals" to generate cash and stay in business. The same with Ford Taurus, many, many used ones out there as well since they are sold to fleets. So, if one is looking for one of these cars, it just comes down to price. And Blackbelt, with all due respect, I don't need you there after the sell. I just want a competitive price on my automobile, I will shake your hand and will probably never see each other again. Don't mean to be rude, it's just been my experience. I have never purchased a car from the same salesperson, even when I have gone back to the same dealership, they are no longer there. That seems to be the rule, at least for me!
Since we are both in California, I have a question. How long should it take to get a title once you paid cash for the car? Can a dealer take 20 days to send the paperwork in to the state? Thanks!
Several years ago, my brother was looking for a VW Passat at one of VW's Chicago dealership. Right next to the sticker price was the dealer's markup of $2800 for added rustproofing. I asked what the rustproofing was for since the car had the original rustproofing from the factory. The lady starts to BS me and says that with all the salt used in the harsh Chicago winters, extra rustproofing is required or else your car will definitely rust. Of course, I told her my family has own late model cars and not one car has rusted. Then I asked her if she would buy the car would the dealer markup. That shut her up pretty quickly. Because of their sneaky tactics, they losted a sale from my brother.
I was up in Seattle about two years ago for business. There were three days of sunshine. What a great place to live. I also took the "underground Seattle" tour....very interesting. I stayed in Bellvue, what a nice town!
Interesting..if you don't need me there, then why not just go to the wholesale block and buy one there? Hmm? My customers buy from me over and over again. I treat them right and they come back and send me many referrals. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the buying public need not label all sale people as crooks. I know there are bad salespeople..just as there are bad doctors, lawyers, engineers etc... If the truth be known, the buying public lie 10 times more than salespeople! Yet another reason I do NOT work the lot looking for fresh ups..as far as you never asking for your sales person..well; I guess he/she does not keep in contact with you; or; you have no loyalty. My customers depend on me to handle any problems that arise after a sale..and I do go to bat for them..They ARE inportant to me! If you wanna' go at it with the "machine" i.e the dealership to handle a problem, more power to ya..My customers don't need or want the head ache.
I tried to be loyal to a salesperson once. I came back after three years to purchase another Ford. The guy was extremely aggressive on the price, probably thinking that I will buy from him no matter what. I ended up going to another further away dealer and saved over a grand. Loyalty is nice, but grand is worth more. I don’t ever refer my friends to a salesman, because I don’t want to be blamed by my friends when they end up paying too much.
Yeah, it does depend on the market. I understand that the Malibu sedan is moving quite well, but the Maxx is not. On one hand, that doesn't bother me because I like having something unique, but its somewhat mystifying.
I actually like the Impala, its often overlooked but with a 3.8 its a nice car. We just were not looking for another sedan, the Maxx offers quite a bit more in terms of flexibility. Its a little big for my fiance too.
Wife and I are shopping around for minivans, and we may buy one of the new GM vans when they come out in Sept/Oct. We're also looking at the current models, since they are screaming bargains, my guess is we could get one for invoice minus rebates.
The dilemma comes in that I have about $2,200 saved up in GM card points, but have since married into a GM family who can get the (very deep) employee discount. Naturally, you cannot use the GM card points on an employee purchase.
So, what to do. Do I negotiate with the salesperson and use the GM points, or just take the discount and blow my $2,200 into the wind?
Also, if you're looking for a second car, $2200 would go a long way on a cheaper, new second car - that way you use both - the discount on the van, the card on another car..
I would guess that, though the GM employee discount is good, it won't be $1500-$2000 below invoice (assuming you're paying a few hundred over invoice without the discount). So I'd use the points this time.
Since GM took away the combination of GM employee pricing and GM credit card points you will have to consider the following:
1) The GM employee discount is around 3-4 percent less than the invoice price. So the deep-discount employee price that you refer to isn't all that deep. So for a van with an MSRP of say $25000 the price to you would be around $1000 (4 percent of $25k) under the invoice price (less any rebates). If you can negotiate the price down to invoice in a regular (non-employee) deal then the credit card points that you have would be worth more in a normal non-employee sale.
2) GM now seems to have many employee-only specials (eg. like GM employee cash) where they rebate additional $1000 or $2000 (or so) for employees to the deal on top of the other rebates and employee discounts. Check the GM family site "www.gmfamilyfirst.com" for the current deals. You can also check employee prices of cars at this site and compare them to Edmunds invoice prices. There may or may not be an employee promotion on right now - you'll have to check their website. For what it's worth - I have noticed that the promotions seem to pop up towards the later part of the month. If this is the case then you just have to work out which is the better deal including any GM employee offers.
3) I have also seen GM promotions where they add additional rebates to the GM credit card balance for a month or so. Usually they'll send you a letter telling you about this kind of promotion. As before for this kind of promotion you'll have to do a regular (non-employee) deal.
While it is apparently not easy being a car salesperson, and even harder to be a good one, comparing qualifications and training needed to work as a physician with those needed for a career in car sales in simply ridiculous.
The following item was in the Kiplinger Letter of July 2, 2004. Wondering if anybody else has heard this? (The two stores around here (Cleveland, Oh) sure do a lot of "screamer" type ads!!
Mitsubishi Motors is about to say good-bye to the U. S. Market. Key shareholder Daimler/Chrysler is bailing out, and its very unlikely that a new investor will emerge to finance production and development. The Japanese firm's tiny 1% share of the U.S. market will be divvied up. Mitsubishi cars on the road will still get serviced, though.
And there is no recent news on Mitsubishi Motors. While Daimler has declined to invest any more money in Mitsubishi, I would say the rest of the article is supposition.
Mitsubishi Motors is about to say good-bye to the U. S. Market. Key shareholder Daimler/Chrysler is bailing out,
IT sounds like old news and speculation. Chrysler bailed out over a month ago. There was additional capitol put in by others such as Mitsubishi heavy equipment, banks, investment groups and the like. However, Mitsubishi Heavy made it quite clear that they will furnish no more money after this. I think they will be around for the next 12 to 24 months in their present form. This is only my opinion. It should be noted that this did not stop me from purchasing a slightly used 2003 Galant ES!
Every week the trade paper Automotive News is filled with terrible news on Mitus....most of the top execs just went to jail in japan for covering up safety problems, terrible product line, no marketing plan, no money, no industry heavyweight execs and no guardian angel like Chrysler...no nothing.
The next 12 months will determine Mitsu fate. Unless there is a product and marketing miracle, they are doomed....My money says they are gone by the 2006 model year.
As I said, this did not stop me from my purchasing decision, but I do agree with you. I took a gamble and am counting on warranty service being there down the road. This is usually the case, as with Daewoo Motors. Daewoo is still performing warranty work on their cars, although parts are very hard to find for Daewoos. But this will not be the case for the Mitsu cars. I am betting that Chrysler will take over warranty work!
it's related to oil filters, not some spontaneous combustion event.
"The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated the situation and concluded July 1 that the cases were the fault of dealerships or others who improperly installed oil filters"
Mitsubishi, though I love the EVO and Eclipse (mostly the EVO) has had its hands full here in the US - mainly from a class-action lawsuit involving the Galant from 1997-2001.
...... I have been busy the last few days baby-sitting, so I missed some stuff, but this has been a pretty good discussion so far, no drive by's, no personal insults, no mortar fire, no Riverbottom, how nice .............
A few things are a little askew here -- Chuck1 .. your opinion that the majority of dealers are bad people, is just that, your opinion .. maybe how you conducted business with poor results might have something to do with, I can't say, I wasn't there .. but usually the person that cries the most is the person that has the Chip on their shoulder, but a good Doctor can have that surgically removed with no problem ...... actually the vast majority of dealers do a great job, work too many hours on a HUGE investment and get all the heat when the customer comes back 9 months later to show their seat has a burn hole from "before" they bought it, or the wheel has been kissing the curb in "their" driveway for a week and they want a new one, or maybe they want a 6 pack cd changer in their trunk for free or they will gag the CSI survey ~ 4 weeks later of course .. could it be any other way .?!?
I can't speak for Blackbelt, he's new to the board but "seems" to be ok, Damish003 makes some good points, but Isell, Drift, Audi and the rest have nothing to gain here, they don't get paid and they don't get a free T-shirt for their thoughts of what is going on in the business, their just trying to help ...
Perhaps you might spend a little time in a dealership and that might change your view a little ..
Bobst might a little on the weird side, but I think he's a straight shooter and thats a big difference from the vast majority of customers that say their pay-off is $9,000 when it's really $11,5 or perhaps the customer then says the dealer down the street just gave them $12,000 for their trade when they really said $8,500, it's especially sad when you own both stores and you were called on that same appraisal 2 hours ago .l.o.l. (oop's they hate when that happens) or maybe when the customer says he makes $7,500 a month and he's been on the job 5 years, when it's really the combined income between him and the Mrs and he's only been on the job for 13 months, I'm sure most folks would forget a small item like that, wouldn't they.? ...
My personal favorite: I want all the toys and If I don't get them-I'm not buying .. I can buy the same ABC vehicle down the street WITH the leather AND the sunroof AND the sport package AND the wheels AND the Nav for $5,500 less than your price - the funny part is, dealers all pay the same amount for identical vehicles .. or maybe I'm always at the wrong dealership, because 2 weeks later I will see them in that ABC vehicle with No leather, No sunroof, No sport package, No wheels and No nav --- *But, they did pay $5,500 less ~ I guess they showed me ........................ ;-)
Well, I don't think they are "blowing up in a ball of flames".
Some have caught fire however as a result of the guy changing the oil getting sloppy and forgetting to remove the old gasket to the mounting plate. It's in a location that's hard to see. You have to go by feel. Thye don't bother to look at the filter they removed to make sure the gasket is still on it.
Comments
If the amount of money is non-zero, give me a Yugo or a Daewoo instead.
I do not believe there are bad dealerships; only bad salespeople! A good salesperson does NOT work at a bad dealership.
The internet is a great source for "fair" pricing; but it is NOT the end all! I love internet shoppers actually; who come in armed with reams of data. If ALL they want is price w/o regard to the vehicle itself, then more power to them and good luck! All cars (used cars) are NOT the same. I love when they say 'I saw the same car down the road, same miles, color, options etc; for $5,000 less" Yeah; and I have some swamp land for sale in AZ. Please!
I think anyone who buys cars should be a salesman for a day! LOL To those of you who have never sold big ticket merchandise; you'd be amazed at what we hear, day after day after day.
"What's your bottom dollar?" "I have to think about it” “I need to pray” “You are the first place we stopped” “I only have 5 mins”
We as Americans LOVE to negotiate! Argue all you want and say you don’t like to negotiate. BULL! Yes you do! Ask any veteran salesperson to agree to a price before his/her customer drives the car, hears about the features, advantages and benefits. Guess what? The car will NOT be sold to that person! They will want more $$$ off!..if they buy it at all! “SALES” is derived from the latin word “To Persuade”..NOT pressure! Few salespeople understand this concept! Left to our own, including me; I will not make a big dollar purchase unless I am sold..I WANT to be sold..I WANT to see and understand the value. If all we had to do was look at vehicles, pick one and buy it, then what would we have? K-Mart! I doubt most people want a K-Mart atmosphere when buying a car.
I want a informed salesperson, a professional! Do you negotiate the fee with your doctor?
Do you want the amateur taking out your appendix? Did you see the same operation down the street for 5K less? LOL
If I TRUST my professional..In ANY service related industry, I WILL pay more for his/her services! TRUST does have value; monetary value!
I wish I were a better writer; I would write a book about how to buy a car, negotiations etc..It would NOT include how to beat up the salesperson to secure yourself a wholesale buy! If you want a wholesale buy, go to the auction.
The only place where I might quibble in your post is your statement that buyers want to be sold on a vehicle. In many, perhaps most cases, that is true. But, there are some of us who know exactly what we want and we simply want to work a deal ASAP.
My recent shopping excursions got tedious because each salesman went through a walk around of each car I looked at before I could test drive it. I understand that this is part of their job, and the salespeople were for the most part knowledgable, but it added a half hour to each visit.
In your situation, had you been my guest, (I refer to all my customers as guests) and had you communicated that you know which car you wanted, I would just get right to it with ya.
Tell me what you found, what you WILL pay. I will also assume you are NOT jerking me around and need to think about it. LOL
I hope you are talking about a used car, because if it is new, then there really are no reson for a test drive if you know what you want.
As far as used cars; they are NOT all the same, I;ve seen two cars.... the same model, year,options same miles etc..and the two are vastly different! Depends who owned them, how they were taken care of etc. The pre-owned cars in our dept really do stand tall. We don't put crap on the street. We also recondition them beyond just an oil change. You can probably buy the same pre-owned car I sell; down the street for $500-750 less, but that is because we average $500-750 in REAL reconditioning, inspection etc per car! That means YOU don't have too. So; you can pay the $750 higher now..or pay maybe $1,500 a yr from now when it breaks down..up to you.
regards,
kyfdx
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That is how we like to do it, and since we are spending our money, we get to do things our way.
The main difference is the line at the cashier is longer at Kmart.
I see it in a very different light.
We as Americans LOVE to negotiate when buying a car - BECAUSE that is the only purchase that you can negotiate in the US.
When you go to Macy's to buy clothes, u cannot negotiate.
When you go to home depot to buy a carpet, u cannot negotiate.
when you go to toys-r-us to buy toys, u cannot negotiate.
when u go to the produce store to buy vegetables/fruits, u cannot negotiate.
when u go to circuit-city to buy an audio/video/home-theatre u cannot negotiate.
No wonder no American wants up to give up that ONE chance s/he gets to negotiate once in maybe 5 years.
In the rest of the world, especially India, u CAN negotiate for almost all of your purchases, save for gas and utilities.
Kmart sells business suits?
You don't have to put on a song and dance for all customers. Some of us are interested in the car, not the sales person. Your main purpose is to carry our offer to the sales manager without losing it.
Yeah, Kmart has some cute business suits. When I find one I like, I sit there until the blue light comes on so I can save $4.99.
Seriously, You bring up some good points but I unfortunately believe at the greenpea factory stores they do teach them the pressure sale not the persuasion style which I am much more amenable to. So there are bad dealers ( as some of the other pros can attest to).
I also believe that you need to test drive even a new car to see if it meets your physical wants & needs but overall I'd say you were right on.
Bobst- I just can't believe that you wait for the blue light at Kmart. I just figured you'd say I'm not paying anymore then X for this product and if they don't take your offer you go to the Kmart down the road... :-)
Duncan
Main Entry: sale
Pronunciation: 'sA(&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English sala, from Old Norse -- more at SELL
1 : the act of selling; specifically : the transfer of ownership of and title to property from one person to another for a price
It can be loads of fun to negotiate just about anything, once people let themselves do it. Heck, I'll try to find a discount on just about anything, I just have to ask. Most folks assume the price on some merchandise is set in stone, except for car buying. That assumption costs most of us lots of extra cash that we could save just by asking "What's the best price you can give?" You'd be surprised at the kinds of things that can be negotiated just by asking.
-Dan-
I ended up selling my fiance's 2000 Alero GLS Coupe, 20,800 miles but a TON of problems (already had a whole new steering unit), it was creaking and rattling, rough idle, etc, to CarMax for $7,100, which I thought was a pretty decent price.
After much (and I do mean much) shopping, I purchased a 2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx LS with the 1sb package (adding head airbags, power seat, rear audio and some floor mats) for $16997, not including my $912 GM car discount. I found a dealer over the internet who was willing to give me the car for Invoice minus the holdback, so it went for $675 under invoice, per the factory paper which he sent to me. It was also the only blue Maxx optioned that way in VA and Maryland.
So far, we're very pleased with the car (I can't believe this thing is not selling, you wouldn't believe what a great car it is, especially the multi-flex seating which is downright revolutionary) and with the deal I got. I think I might have been able to do a tad bit better elsewhere, but I wanted this particular car so it was worth it to stop shopping. So that's it for me.
And in the process, I found a nice, honest, straightfoward dealer (Anderson in Baltimore, MD) that gave me their price and didn't screw around, didn't even charge me a doc fee. So it can be done!
Depends on the market. I was talking to a GM Regional Manager in Milwaukee who was telling me that they were moving quite well.
Personally, from first glance, I prefer the Impala which are not that much more if you shop around.
Thanks!
I know he had a Taurus from hell as many of the earlier ones were.
Fleets buy them because Ford caters to the fleet buyers. a lot of companies insist on "American" cars for their fleets.
Motor Trend also gave the Chevy Vega the Car of the Year award one time too along with a couple other duds.
Still, I agree the newer ones are much better and they can be a lot of car for the money when bought used.
Born and raised in San Pedro but left CA in 1986. Live in a Seattle suburb now.
Even so...NO WAY should a dealer take 20 days to send paperwork! This should be done within a couple of business days.
If the truth be known, the buying public lie 10 times more than salespeople! Yet another reason I do NOT work the lot looking for fresh ups..as far as you never asking for your sales person..well; I guess he/she does not keep in contact with you; or; you have no loyalty. My customers depend on me to handle any problems that arise after a sale..and I do go to bat for them..They ARE inportant to me!
If you wanna' go at it with the "machine" i.e the dealership to handle a problem, more power to ya..My customers don't need or want the head ache.
I actually like the Impala, its often overlooked but with a 3.8 its a nice car. We just were not looking for another sedan, the Maxx offers quite a bit more in terms of flexibility. Its a little big for my fiance too.
Wife and I are shopping around for minivans, and we may buy one of the new GM vans when they come out in Sept/Oct. We're also looking at the current models, since they are screaming bargains, my guess is we could get one for invoice minus rebates.
The dilemma comes in that I have about $2,200 saved up in GM card points, but have since married into a GM family who can get the (very deep) employee discount. Naturally, you cannot use the GM card points on an employee purchase.
So, what to do. Do I negotiate with the salesperson and use the GM points, or just take the discount and blow my $2,200 into the wind?
Thanks!
Just an idea.
1) The GM employee discount is around 3-4 percent less than the invoice price. So the deep-discount employee price that you refer to isn't all that deep. So for a van with an MSRP of say $25000 the price to you would be around $1000 (4 percent of $25k) under the invoice price (less any rebates). If you can negotiate the price down to invoice in a regular (non-employee) deal then the credit card points that you have would be worth more in a normal non-employee sale.
2) GM now seems to have many employee-only specials (eg. like GM employee cash) where they rebate additional $1000 or $2000 (or so) for employees to the deal on top of the other rebates and employee discounts. Check the GM family site "www.gmfamilyfirst.com" for the current deals. You can also check employee prices of cars at this site and compare them to Edmunds invoice prices. There may or may not be an employee promotion on right now - you'll have to check their website. For what it's worth - I have noticed that the promotions seem to pop up towards the later part of the month. If this is the case then you just have to work out which is the better deal including any GM employee offers.
3) I have also seen GM promotions where they add additional rebates to the GM credit card balance for a month or so. Usually they'll send you a letter telling you about this kind of promotion. As before for this kind of promotion you'll have to do a regular (non-employee) deal.
Mitsubishi Motors is about to say good-bye to the U. S. Market. Key shareholder Daimler/Chrysler is bailing out, and its very unlikely that a new investor will emerge to finance production and development. The Japanese firm's tiny 1% share of the U.S. market will be divvied up. Mitsubishi cars on the road will still get serviced, though.
Doesn't mean it won't happen, though.
regards,
kyfdx
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IT sounds like old news and speculation. Chrysler bailed out over a month ago. There was additional capitol put in by others such as Mitsubishi heavy equipment, banks, investment groups and the like. However, Mitsubishi Heavy made it quite clear that they will furnish no more money after this. I think they will be around for the next 12 to 24 months in their present form. This is only my opinion. It should be noted that this did not stop me from purchasing a slightly used 2003 Galant ES!
The next 12 months will determine Mitsu fate. Unless there is a product and marketing miracle, they are doomed....My money says they are gone by the 2006 model year.
Maybe Honda will be retreating back to Japan just like they did after the Battle of Leyte Gulf.
"The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated the situation and concluded July 1 that the cases were the fault of dealerships or others who improperly installed oil filters"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1895&ncid- =1895&e=5&u=/nm/20040709/us_nm/autos_honda_fires_dc
Mitsubishi, though I love the EVO and Eclipse (mostly the EVO) has had its hands full here in the US - mainly from a class-action lawsuit involving the Galant from 1997-2001.
A few things are a little askew here -- Chuck1 .. your opinion that the majority of dealers are bad people, is just that, your opinion .. maybe how you conducted business with poor results might have something to do with, I can't say, I wasn't there .. but usually the person that cries the most is the person that has the Chip on their shoulder, but a good Doctor can have that surgically removed with no problem ...... actually the vast majority of dealers do a great job, work too many hours on a HUGE investment and get all the heat when the customer comes back 9 months later to show their seat has a burn hole from "before" they bought it, or the wheel has been kissing the curb in "their" driveway for a week and they want a new one, or maybe they want a 6 pack cd changer in their trunk for free or they will gag the CSI survey ~ 4 weeks later of course .. could it be any other way .?!?
I can't speak for Blackbelt, he's new to the board but "seems" to be ok, Damish003 makes some good points, but Isell, Drift, Audi and the rest have nothing to gain here, they don't get paid and they don't get a free T-shirt for their thoughts of what is going on in the business, their just trying to help ...
Perhaps you might spend a little time in a dealership and that might change your view a little ..
Bobst might a little on the weird side, but I think he's a straight shooter and thats a big difference from the vast majority of customers that say their pay-off is $9,000 when it's really $11,5 or perhaps the customer then says the dealer down the street just gave them $12,000 for their trade when they really said $8,500, it's especially sad when you own both stores and you were called on that same appraisal 2 hours ago .l.o.l. (oop's they hate when that happens) or maybe when the customer says he makes $7,500 a month and he's been on the job 5 years, when it's really the combined income between him and the Mrs and he's only been on the job for 13 months, I'm sure most folks would forget a small item like that, wouldn't they.? ...
My personal favorite: I want all the toys and If I don't get them-I'm not buying .. I can buy the same ABC vehicle down the street WITH the leather AND the sunroof AND the sport package AND the wheels AND the Nav for $5,500 less than your price - the funny part is, dealers all pay the same amount for identical vehicles .. or maybe I'm always at the wrong dealership, because 2 weeks later I will see them in that ABC vehicle with No leather, No sunroof, No sport package, No wheels and No nav --- *But, they did pay $5,500 less ~ I guess they showed me ........................ ;-)
Terry.
Some have caught fire however as a result of the guy changing the oil getting sloppy and forgetting to remove the old gasket to the mounting plate. It's in a location that's hard to see. You have to go by feel. Thye don't bother to look at the filter they removed to make sure the gasket is still on it.