Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

driftracer

robr2

A compliment!!

Although I don't know Mathias I find it great that he knows something other than rocket science. The stereotype is book smart but not street smarth. The rocket scientist I know personally is like Mathias - he knows what's going on in the world outside his field and is down to earth. Although he is a retired prof at MIT, he always calls himself a former teacher.

audia8q

"....trailer park accoutrements and bordello fanciments....."

I will find a way to work that into my sales meeting tomorrow. Thank you.

weaselinsuit

There seems to be a certain amount of slagging of payment buyers in these threads and on the site itself. I'm just wondering as to the cause. Seems to me that some people may not be able to afford to put money down or to go above a certain monthly amount in terms of payments, yet may need a specific vehicle. A bit of an exaggerated example would be the family with 5 kids that needs a reliable mini van yet may be lower income. I realize that it pays to negotiate the best price and then structure the monthly payments but are dealers willing to do that and then still structure the payments so that the monthly amount the family can afford is still achievable? Guess I was thinking that monthly payments are a bit like leasing, you get a bit better car than you can afford but pay for the privilege.

driftracer

to do your homework at home, so the payments you're being quoted are pretty much meaningless.

Walking into a dealership, especially a high-pressure, green pea factory with stronger than death closers, with only a payment in mind is setting yourself up for a poor deal.

Many people think "as long as they can get under $xxx a month" without thinking about what the big picture is - how many months? what's the price on the vehicle? what extras are in that payment? what's the rate?

Homework beforehand, including the package and options you want, the right price, and having your financing arranged, or at least knowing what you qualify for (if the manufacturer has some cool finance programs) can save you heartache in the long run.

rroyce10

.......... One of the hardest jobs is to keep the customer "in limits" and this comes from Any economic level .. whether someone makes $50,000 a year or they make $500,000 they can be so close to the wall that a good dealer needs to make sure they don't move themselves up, but it's sometimes very hard to do .. do you think the guy that makes $500,000 a year isn't a payment buy, Pshaw Pshaw, I probably need to look at his credit first .....

               Shopping at home is good advice, but most times the customer will change their minds once they look at 5/6 vehicles, it's human nature, ever see anyone change their mind in a furniture store.? (only about 300 times) ... maybe now they can't live without the leather and the slider, maybe they have to have the Bozo sound with the XM/SIRIUS system, the new deal now is "I gotta have the Nav system" ..

                     The funny part is, they don't know Why they can't live without one, but they just hafta have it and these things have been around for Yeeears .. what usually happens is they plug in all their friends and relatives names and addresses, drive around and show them for a month or two and after that, it becomes history .. all this for $2,000 grand, when they could have gotten a Magellan pocket for $299 .... What price glory.?

                I guess the point is, it's very easy for consumers to get off their target price, $23,0 travels to $25,0 and $25,0 wanders off to $28,0 and after 3/4 hours you have a aggravated customer that gets mad because they came in for a $23,0 vehicle and a "X" payment and now they can't understand why a mere $5,000 (plus tax) will have any effect on their purchase or payment ..

                  Folks do what they do best - they *shoot* the messenger and then, they go down the road and buy the $28,0 vehicle, no matter what the payment is .. until they get the first one ...

                So yes, it can be very precarious when dealing with a customer, do you tell them the truth or do you tell them what they want to hear ..? because their going to buy somewhere ..

                   I'm not a betting man, but I would bet 15 nights at the Hyatt Regency in Hong Kong (and the airfare) that if you and I were the "fly on the wall" on most of these deals on the Edmunds boards, that's what exactly happens 75% of the time and once they get into problems, they blame the dealer .. that's the difference from knowing what goes on VS what folks "think" that go on ~ can we spell - Responsibility .... ask any mortgage lender that's been in the business in the last 5 years ..l.o.l....

                 Hey, wait a minute .. your a Lawyer, did anyone of your clients ever say: "I'm guilty" ..l.o.l........

                              Terry.

mfullmer

If they were really "shopping at home" then there wouldn't be the 25k - 28k price increase surprise. Anyone who takes their finances seriously can go into a dealership with their palm pilot, loaded up with the different cars they might want, and know what the sticker is more or less.

You are more talking about the people that think they did their homework by reading a car magazine or seeing an ad in the paper.

weaselinsuit

They're never guilty just situationally challenged.....

rroyce10

**You are more talking about the people that think they did their homework by reading a car magazine or seeing an ad in the paper**

           No, actually I'm talkin' about the market as a whole, the majority or "at least" the extra large minority ..

                 Having a palm pilot, an Ipod, your lap top and 27 sheets of carefully selected notes on expensive printed Egyptian paper still doesn't mean that folks don't move up to the $25/$28 vehicle, the boards are full of them - thats not a bad thing, it's just human nature ...

                   If your a golfer, watch the consumers the next time your in a Edwin Watts or a store like it. They got their notes going on, they look at some of the clubs and they "might" even hit 2 or 3 balls, but they usually pick the $399 driver when they came in to buy that $129 club that's on sale, it's just human nature and it happens all the time, I've done it myself ... Boat shows will be hitting the decks soon, watch the buyers. They come to the shows with all the notes, walk and look at 10/15 boats and they go home with a boat thats not even on their list, it happens, it's common, it's just human nature .....................

                              Terry.

alfox

I hear sales guys say all the time how they will spend so much time on a deal only to have the customer shop his numbers at another store, and end up buying there. Annoying - I can see that.

But, don't you also collect as many people coming from the dealer up the other way, shopping their numbers, so that you end up with their sale? If you know the business, can't you make it kinda work out even, or maybe to your benefit overall?

Just curious...

rroyce10

**just situationally challenged.....** ...l.o.l......

              Yeah, thats it ~ just situationally challenged .. sounds like our boy Jayson Williams ................. )

                              Terry.

rroyce10

........ Good question ...

            It's hard to measure sometimes .. contrary to what most folks think or will even admit too, there is a ton of cross-shopping, I mean a TON .. the folks that HAD to have that sporty little Bimmer 330Xi, but come home in a Fat daddy Ford Lariat .. the folks that will kill each other for the new 4dr Benz, but comes home in a new Saab convert .. the couple that has studied the market for 3 months and wants that new Sienna, but come home in a new Mazda "3" ......

              There is probably more cross-shopping now, than any other time I've ever seen, and I've been doing this for almost 21 years, go figure .. so it will depend on what side of the street your on and what the barometric pressure is for the day ...

                               Terry.

stickguy

your're right that the law of qaverages says that for every buyer you spend time on that buys elseewhere, you should get his counterpart. But, I bet it is skewed by the type of store (that is, sales techniques).

alfox

I'll bet you're right. Shopping numbers is one thing, and I suspect it comes out even if all other things are equal. But a turn-off by an agressive process store can last a long time. There's one here I won't go into after being thrice-burned over 15 years ago, because it is still owned by the same man. (Thrice-burned?? Yeah, I'm either a forgiving customer or a slow learner, depending on to whom you talk...)

audia8q

Terry says...."There is probably more cross-shopping now, than any other time I've ever seen, and I've been doing this for almost 21 years, go figure..."

I'll second that.

We see people who are cross shipping cars that have nothing in common. A guy was in the showroom this past Sat and he was comparing Mazda3, Saab convertable and Explorer...He had no particular need for any of them, just liked them all. There is nothing in the product training manual for "how to sell a Saab conv vs. Explorer...lol

akangl

We wanted a new F-350 CC 4x4 diesel, ended up buying a Ford Focus and keeping our Dodge. Not exactly what we planned on doing, but its worked out for the best. I think that's the only time we went in for one thing and came out with another, the rest of the time we've pretty much stuck to the plan.

mfullmer

You missed the emphasis in my post. The last word of that sentence was SURPRISE. Yes, if people aren't absulutely sure what they want they can wander but if they had done research they would, at the very least, know about the car and have an idea of price.

The problem is people think that researching ONE car that they like is enough to make an easy car buying experience. I've found researching every POSSIBLE car I would like makes it much easier.

blckthree

As a lurker who missed a couple of months of posts, I am surprised, or not.. ANOTHER new car??

Who won the pool this time?

akangl

LOL, I don't think anybody won the pool this time. We bought the Focus in July, I'm working fulltime so its great for a commuter car. Its about 7 weeks old and has just shy of 7k on it (had 50 miles on it when we bought it).

The Titan is still around and has about 10k on it, the Dodge is still with us as well. The Dodge is our business truck, so we really don't count it in the stable since it only goes out for business.

stickguy

even Lloyd's of London won't write a policy on that pool anymore.

akangl

Probably not. I *think* we are done for now. Just refinaced all three of them at a much lower interest rate, now time to buckle down and pay them off. BTW, we've had the Dodge for almost a year, will be a year in November.

kyfdx

"I *think* we are done for now"

uh huh.. now, about that bridge for sale...

blckthree

That's some serious commuting! I don't feel so bad about 400 miles a week anymore.

It's only money, and you can't take it with you!

akangl

We've got a reg cab truck, a crew cab truck, and a small car, what else could we possibly need to buy? I can't think of anything.

I haven't even given new cars a glance in a long time, other than to walk over (last time I was at the Nissan dealer) to the Explorer I traded in on the Titan and laugh at the price.

But who knows, maybe something else will catch my eye and I'll buy that too, lol, or not.

weaselinsuit

Given that your automobile needs appear to be satiated, at least for now, what about branching out into boats or airplanes. Whole new areas for exploration, could be at least a couple years of opportunity to trade things in for new ones.... : )

akangl

We purchased an 18' car hauler trailer a year ago, that won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Then this year we bought a pop up camper and that was the most horrible experience of my life, doubt I'll be in a hurry to repeat that anytime soon.

Airplanes, nope, no use for that, boats, well, maybe in time (hubby wants one), a 4wheeler is in the works for next summer, already have 2 (hahaha) ancient snowmobiles that run good.

rroyce10

.. **You missed the emphasis in my post. The last word of that sentence was SURPRISE** ..

           No I didn't miss anything, I saw it, I read it, I understood it - the first time .. but my SURPRISE is that you didn't read the previous posts, because we are going to have a test later and it looks like your going to flunk ..l.o.l....

                               Terry.

scanty

So is Nissan starting to offer insane deals on leftover '04 Pathfinders yet? I'd be looking at either a 4x4 SE with leather and roof or a 4x4 LE. Are we talking invoice minus $3250 rebate?

mark156

When you said "Then this year we bought a pop up camper and that was the most horrible experience of my life, doubt I'll be in a hurry to repeat that anytime soon". Did you mean that the buying experience was bad or the camper was a mistake?

7,000 miles already on the Focus? Wow, you are doing some serious driving!

Mark156

bowke28

pretty much. invoice is reasonable as long as its an inventory unit.

akangl

The buying experience was a nightmare, the dealership is horrible, I should have run the other way, but that's ok, the camper is nice and I found a different warranty center I can take it to. Just a big disappointment in service after the sale, its like "ok, we have your money, who cares if the furnace doesn't work 2 days after you bought it". I've had better service after I bought my cheapo Focus, the Ford dealer is great.

scanty

Got a screamer in the mail from a local dealer, just wanted to see what was happening in the real world.

rroyce10

...... With all the money the dealer made on Aka's camper deal, he should be in Costa Rica for another month ..l.o.l....

                             Terry.

akangl

Unless we wanted to travel to the states to buy one we didn't have much choice. Yeah it was a sucky deal, but it saved us several thousand miles to go pick one up.

That 02 that we looked at before we bought the new one went for $5800 and it wasn't all that great, plus it had less options and was smaller.

Just one of the joys of living in Alaska, very limited competition and NONE when it comes to new popup campers........used ones are scarce at best and the ones you do find are rough or priced almost as much as a new one.

rroyce10

...... http://www.infocostarica.com/ ....

                        Terry )

hammen2

Here's a question for dealers who read this discussion. Five days after purchasing my car, GM increased the incentives significantly ($2500). Is there any leeway where recent purchasers ever get the added incentives? I wasn't going to let this bother me, since I was able to drive the car for five days before the incentives increased (unexpectedly - seven days before the expiration of the current ones), however, the new car has been in the shop with a serious rear suspension problem for the past eight days, with no resolution in sight. I'm looking for negotiation points.

BTW, I researched lemon law in my state and the rule is 30 days in the first year, or 4 repair attempts for the same issue (clock is running). Am I pretty much hosed for the first 30 days, or have dealerships been known to replace problematic vehicles (800 miles, 12 days) early on?

I haven't taken the dealer's offer of a rental car, since it's a pretty basic stripper model and we still have my wife's GTP, which we need to sell and are currently racking up miles. Again, just looking for some input so that I can negotiate reasonably with the dealer/GM...

Thanks, in advance,

--Robert

boomer1b

Problems with that new GTO ? BUmmer...........

SUIT.....I know about the PST too. Spend a lot of time in Ontario. When we buy stuff there and take it back to NY... SOME of the taxes are refunded at the border.
The 5% softwood tariff is sorta screwy tho......

Kirstie_H

Hopefully my link will work the first time -
Vehicle Sales Tax Questions.

You've all brought up some interesting information about how tax laws vary from state-to-state, and we frequently get these questions from newbies. To make it easier for folks to find, we've got the new discussion, so let's continue talking about taxes over there.

Since your questions & comments guide the discussions, if you've ever got an idea for a new topic that might generate conversation, don't hesitate to ask for it to be created!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi Robert. I am sorry to hear that General Motors enhanced its incentives on the vehicle that you purchased a couple of days after you took delivery of it. Unfortunately, manufacturers usually do not give any additional money back to consumers who purchase vehicles immediately before an incentives enhancement. As you can imagine it would be very, very expensive for them to do so. If you don't mind me asking, what model did you purchase? Manufacturers, even the incentives king General Motors, don't just all of a sudden increase their incentives on a model by $2,500. They usually make their enhancements in much smaller increments.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shopper Message Board

hammen2

I bought a GTO on 8/27. I only went to the dealer because they had a Cosmos Purple (a pretty rare color - only 600-800 of the 10-12k GTOs they made, and won't be available in '05) A4. It was sitting on the showroom floor with 8 (!) miles on it. Since GM incentives did not end until 9/7, we made the decision to buy the car right away due to its pristine condition (no other test-drives), but, on 9/1, GM added $1500 more GMAC cash back (from $2000 to $3500), and added $1000 for GMS buyers like myself. I should note that this is on top of the low 0.9/36, 1.9/48 and 2.9/60 finance rates on the vehicle.

Again, it wouldn't have mattered to me so much if my vehicle hadn't broken down on me on 9/9 (clunking from rear end, noise in front end). Took it to the dealer - there was a TSB out on the clunk, dated April, my car was built in May after the VIN break - but still evidently had the old parts. It took the dealer until Tuesday of this week to get that problem resolved. The front end noise is the big mystery. They're able to duplicate the problem with the car up on the rack, with suspension components removed, so it's some kind of cowl/chassis flex (they've replaced dash components, pulled the windshield, dropped and realigned the front and rear end cradles, et. al.). The dealership is talking/emailing Holden reps in Australia (which is naturally making troubleshooting a challenge). The dealership service manager seems pretty perplexed. I'm not sure how much longer they'll go before they give up and pull the plug (I'm only at 9 days out of the 30, but it won't be fixed before mid-next week at the earliest, the car is only three weeks old, and I'm rapidly approaching the time where the car's been in the shop more than I've driven it). If that happens, I'll obviously get the additional incentives on a re-written deal for a new GTO, but, if they fix the car, I'm still going to see what they have to say.

I read "on another web site" of someone who bought a GTO on 8/28 and got GM to give him the $2500 in additional incentives. I have his name and his dealership name/general manager, and so, armed with this information, I'm going back to the purchasing dealership to see what they/GM have to say (in light of all of all of the trouble/non-use of the car I've had). Wish me luck.

--Robert

grandtotal

While I have enormous sympathy with your plight, I have to ask you this: If GM had reduced the rebate a few days after you had bought, how would you react to them contacting you and asking you to give them back the difference?
I think that you should treat these two issues as separate, which they are, and I hope that one way or another your problems are resolved to your satisfaction.

bowke28

thats pretty inconsiderate. its not the dealer's fault. as a matter of fact, i dont think anyone is to blame at all.

you chose to buy a 1st year model car on the date you bought it. you got every incentive available AT THAT TIME, and since you missed the boat by 4 days, you think someone OWES you something?!?

get ahold of reality here. let them fix your car, and enjoy the fact that you got what you wanted for a comfortable price.

using your logic, the $2500 wasnt a big issue in the first place, or you would have bought a different color at another dealer for less money.

boomer1b

The GTO is not a 1st. year model.
It is just a Holden variant that is sold world wide. Maybe 1st year bearing the GTO name tho. !

Hammen....... that sure stinks ! good luck!

hammen2

...of Holden to build a defective car :-)

Just hypothetically, what is a "reasonable" amount of time for a manufacturer to spend trying to repair a less-than-two week old car with 853 miles on it? The full 30 days of lemon law? Or have dealers/manufacturers been known to throw up their hands earlier?

I don't expect this to happen - the last update I got was they were getting closer to resolving the problem. Of course, I ended up having to call up Pontiac on Friday and then speak to GM Executive Relations in order to get the dealer to tell me anything about what was going on with my car (after emailing my sales rep and asking him to call me - he did, I told him how disappointed/frustrated I was with not knowing what exactly was wrong with my car, and what its repair status was - but did not yell or whine. He promised to talk to the service manager and "get right back to me" - but he never called back (2 p.m. call, 9 p.m. dealer close). That's why I got GM involved on Friday morning, because I'd had it with getting the runaround about what exactly was wrong with my car). Had a callback from GM in 15 minutes, and had two callbacks from the VP of Service who was specifically working with Holden on my problem).

--Robert

CarMan@Edmunds

You are very well informed, Robert. Unfortunately, General Motors did add an additional $1,500 bonus cash for consumers who finance through GMAC and another $1,000 for consumers who purchase through its employee purchase program on September 1st. This is one of those rare situations where the incentives on a vehicle increased by $2,500 in one pop, though it was through a combination of two separate programs. Make sure to let us know how everything turns out with your car and with your quest to get the additional incentive money.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shopper Message Board

art_vandelay

I'm having a dickens of a time trying to find GAP insurance in Texas. Anyone have any ideas?

I recently purchased a new vehicle and financed thru my credit union, who does not yet offer GAP coverage but is "exploring offering it in the future." No problem I figured, as I thought I could just call my insurance agent and add it to my coverage. Wrong! Turns out my carrier, State Farm, does not offer GAP insurance unless I finance the vehicle thru State Farm Bank!

So I start exploring online, and none of the online sellers of GAP will sell in Texas due to the particulars of Texas insurance law.

Progressive has "loan/lease payoff coverage" but it's only available if you carry your comp & collision with them... and they want almost double what I'm paying State Farm, who I've been with for years.

I've contacted a couple of other local credit unions who offer GAP, but they say I'd have to refinance my loan with them.

So......... any ideas? Anyone? Or am I out of luck unless I want to refinance the note or move my insurance?

Thanks.

151ranch

that can be sold by a dealership as a stand-alone product (like an service contract). You can try local dealers but otherwise it may be hard to find a carrier to sell a standalone GAP policy. The price is fixed to the consumer, so there should not be much variation in pricing between dealers.

The online companies have to be licensed by the Texas Department of Insurance to sell the product, it is not that hard a license to get, I would keep trying.

mirth

Not sure exactly what the problem is, but I do know that Texas has the most "unique" insurance laws in the country (with the possible exception of Massachusetts). I once worked on a software application for an auto insurance company. We had one set of programs for Texas, and one set of programs for the rest of the country. Seriously.

volvomax

Yeah due to Texas insurance laws most lease companies don't do actual leases there. They have balloon programs for Texas.
Guess we need a Texan to explain it, and then an American to translate

driftracer

I'm from Lake Jackson, TX..

The difference revolves around insuring the vehicle and actual ownership - a Texas lessee has less ownership rights than in other states.

Pretty simple in theory, but involving the finance/lease company more deeply in the lease, ownership, and insurance scenario naturally brings in more company policies, state regulations, red tape, and lwayers.