It is clear from reading these forums that many sales businesses have yet to master in-person or phone interactions. And you expect them to master email?
Seriously, too many people feel that email use applies equally to any business/commerce situation. It just may be the case that email will never be the car sales panacea that many hope for. Sort of like groceries-by-net has never really caught on (although many have tried).
The need to negotiate makes the whole thing vastly different than buying a camera from Best Buy or a book from Amazon.
Every time I cruise around Boise I spot an Albertson's box truck delivering groceries. The service fee is only, ahem, $9.95. Available in ten other western cities.
Facsimiles went commercial in 1865 (link) and it only took it about 115 years to hit critical mass (maybe you remember faxes?). Email won't take quite as long I don't think.
I agree with you. There are drawbacks to e-mail communication. A trained salesperson can usually tell quickly by face to face or phone contact if someone is really interested in buying a car or just wasting his time. It is much more difficult when the contact is via e-mail. Even the best images transmitted over the Internet cannot replace an in person look at a car, and certainly not a test drive. I found a good pre-owned car by the old fashioned method of stopping by at a local dealer's lot and looking there to see what he had in stock, then coming back the next day to test drive the car and make the deal. Dealing with the dealership afterward, however, was stressful and aggravating.
I only use dealers who post the internet salesperson and their email on their website (Unlike what is referred to in a previous post, many dealerships, here in Atlanta anyway, post the email addresses of their employees, including service personnel) and I've had great success.
I don't mind if they don't get back with me immediately and they can be direct and to the point (without wasting an hour or so of time with me) with everyone for much less time.
Let's face it guys, you might not want to change, but consider this. Say you spend an hour responding to 20 emails - not difficult - from prospects. Let's assume all 20 of those prospects are looky-lou duds. Would you really rather waste 10 hours (at a conservative 30 minute interaction) having them come into the dealership for a "face-to-face" or 1 hour emailing them back?
i would assume that the on-line/phone grocery shopping is big in cities that have lots of rural areas (boise, helena, butte, etc...) for the farmers and older folks that dont want to drive 2 hours to get groceries.
the inherent problem with your comparison is that "looky-loos" dont come in NEARLY as often. national statistics say that only 10-15% of people that go to a dealership have no intention of buying anything.
its much easier for someone to click 10-12 times and hit "send inquiry" with no intention than to spend hours at a dealership.
the argument about the time spent on email is valid...you just didnt apply it to the correct group. ;-)
"i would assume that the on-line/phone grocery shopping is big in cities that have lots of rural areas (boise, helena, butte, etc...) for the farmers and older folks that dont want to drive 2 hours to get groceries."
It's also huge in New York City, believe it or not. A stand-alone, web-only grocer called FreshDirect has been a huge hit here. They are considerably cheaper than a brick-and-mortar store (you can imagine the overhead a grocer pays in Manhattan, particularly), and their quality is on a par with a fancy gourmet supermarket. If you order by midnight on a weeknight, 9 p.m. before weekends, you can get your food as soon as 9 the next morning.
They require a $40 minimum and a $3.95 delivery charge. It's a great service if you don't have a car, get the same items every week, or are just pressed for time.
They are expanding their delivery area rapidly into the outer boroughs and are examining the prospects of suburban service.
Whether this'll work long term remains to be seen, but I think online grocers are here to stay in one form or another.
I'd love to know who's using web grocery delivery here - probably shut-ins and the keyboard jockeys at Micron and HP.
I suspect a lot of people long for the day when you can buy the car on-line and have it delivered to your door, never having to grace the showroom floor.
Houses are unique, or at least the land they sit on is. Cars are commodity items, like the toothpaste and soup the web grocers deliver. Ok, I'm heading back to the excited new Odyssey owners :-)
i am good friends with the GM of the honda dealer down the street (used to work for him), and we are swapping vans next week. a loaded odyssey for a loaded quest for our salespeople to compare.
Cars aren't toasters. People want and need to drive them, sit on them, feel them. You can do all the research you want but a website can't tell you how loud the car is, where the blind spots are, how comfortable the seats are etc. For alot of people a car is the most expensive thing they will ever buy, a little time spent with the car before you sign for it is a good idea.
>>Would you really rather waste 10 hours (at a conservative 30 minute interaction) having them come into the dealership for a "face-to-face" or 1 hour emailing them back?<<
You fail to take into account that many of these people are sending this e-mail to anywhere between 5-100 dealers looking for that "special" deal that saves them a bit of money. Why not? I mean you can send out an e-mail to every dealership in the US with little cost.
If I were Bowkes, I would not respond to requests from Boise, ID if I am a dealer in Louisville.
i only reply to emails from >100 miles away if it is for a very unique vehicle. the way i see it is that if someone from out of town wants a quote on a new taurus, then they are probably grinders selling out their own local guy for $50. and while that would be a deal, it wouldnt be worth it.
I agree with you. However, doing a lot of research online save the time of going to look at/drive a vehicle only to find out that it doesn't come with a certain feature that is a must-have.
I didn't fail to take that into account. What does it matter? Chances are, if I'm able, I'm going to go to 5 different dealers if I can't email them.
The part of the equation that seems to escape a lot salespeople is that commerce requires competition. If you can't deal with competition, then the business is not right for you. Whether it's a phone call, email or someone standing in the dealership, if you don't want to interact with the customer in the way that they present themselves then you need to be another business. Or, you can be one of the people that customers complain about regarding customer service.
There has been a lot of "no way" to my post but guess what -
Since February '04 I've received over $200 in gift cards to a local restaurant group from my Lexus salesperson. Last week when I was in service and went back to say hi to her she was working on a deal for someone who is a friend of someone that I referred to her. She has done 7 deals with people that are a direct result of my referral since April.
For two weeks we emailed each other before I ever sat foot in the dealership.
My Toyota dealer has received two references from me since July and I know one of them is working they are just waiting for their car to come in. Again, I only dealt with him through email for two days before I went in and ordered the car.
Word of mouth is still very important to any salesperson.
You are absolutely right. I was able to rent two 04 Camrys while on business trips and found that while the car was competent and worth the asking price, that I felt too isolated driving it as compared to my old Camry. There's no substitute for a test drive, especially with used cars. It didn't take me very long to decide that the 2002 Accord SE I test drove was the correct car for my needs. I find that the visibility with this car (critical for driving in the NYC area with frequent lane changes and highway merges) is better than any of the newer makes and models I have driven. I found the Web useful in researching problems which owners of different makes were having, test drive reports, and pricing guidelines. I was able to narrow my list of choices until I found what I needed.
The internet is a great time saver from a research standpoint. It also helps salespeople in that customers generally know what they want when they come on the lot. Its rare that I have to spend alot of time educating a customer on our offerings.
FWIW, i think the new odyssey looks EXACTLY like the sienna. honda makes a great product to begin with. they shouldnt have to take design cues from the 90 year old engineers at toyota.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Sorry.. those comparison threads are too violent for me.. those people are scary.. Here, since neither of us owns one of these sleds, we can just jaw a little, then move on to something else...
I agree about the looks.. but, neither of them is making a "statement", like the Quest does.. It is just a statement that would be better off unsaid. IMHO
Although I'm only there because I'm shopping for a new family car.
OT, are people like some of the brand fanatics that militant when they come in to shop the competition, or are they so brand loyal that they only go to the brand of choice dealers?
I am curious, since no matter how predisposed I am to like a particular car, I always make sure to check out the competition to make sure I'm not missing out.
Mostly.. they seem to be justifying their choice of car.. I don't think they are that much of a fanatic about the particular brand, just so little time removed from making a major decision about it.
Unless we are talking about Subaru owners.. They are so danged happy about their cars, it is sickening.. It is one big group hug on those boards....LOL
I miss having a Subaru, had 2, liked them both. Course I'm pretty stuck on my Focus (of all things), I love my Titan just wish it would chill out with the visits to the service dept.
Hey, I can totally understand your aversion to the "my car can beat up your car" discussions, but we've gotta stay reasonably on-topic here.
Just leave a trail of bread crumbs for others to follow if you hike to another discussion.
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My car can beat up your car, but anyway, I'll leave the bread crumbs if I choose to mosey on over to another topic. I prefer chocolate please.
Now, my question for the car dealers is why do you do those gimmicky *auctions* and stuff like that? Like I'm really going to believe that 6 million dollars worth of cars were really abandoned or some other crazy thing.
Was watching the news Sat. a.m. as Hurricane Jeanne was moseying our way (near Orlando), and about every half hour a local Nissan dealer was having live remotes from his lot.
The main sales pitch seemed to be, "We can have you out of here in an hour, before the storm gets here!"
Yeah, get your brand new car and put it in the driveway under the big oak right before the outer bands hit!
Do they really expect people to be out car shopping at times like this? I know all the business people around here are taking a beating after three big blows in six weeks, but is it too costly to simply scratch the whole thing and try it again on another day? Maybe when the wind gauge isn't topping 75 mph?
"auction sales" are set up months in advance - the dealer principle and the event company had no idea that Florida would get 4 hurricanes - I'm sure they just planned their sales for one of the (usually) busiest times of the year.
I'm not defending, just explaining - personally, I HATE those "slasher" sales, "auctions" and "tent events" - they actually do little for the dealer, considering they bring in all the local credit criminals and those who are flat broke, looking for something to do -
Of course, as long as there are "tent event" companies out there, there'll be dealers using them.
Well, the funny thing about the Nissan sale Saturday is that it wasn't a tent sale. Just a sale that the dealer was promoting with live remotes during the storm updates. Seems to me that at some point, as the storm was heading this way, that somebody would have stepped in and said, "Not a good idea to do this now."
I was at the dealer the other day and we got down to an ok price for an 04 vw jetta (18500 before tax and tags), but then I brought up an incentive that was available for $1000 off and he acted as if he wasn't going to give it to me (he just said "well thats the price" like he wasn't going any lower than what he already gave me) My question is if he were to go any lower, would he really be loosing money? Or can he really go lower but he is just BSing me?? (I am still going to ask about it but I just wanted to know from a dealers point of view)
and the only way to tell if the incentive is in the deal is to do your homework. work up the price of your jetta with the options, and figure out invoice price total. jettas aren't as hot anymore (except TDIs), so a deal close to invoice is pretty likely. so if invoice is 19X00 on your jetta and he's offering 18X00, the 1k incentive is likely in there already and you've got a good deal.
remember though that the incentive might not apply to models like the TDI, if you're shopping for that one. good luck!
disclaimer--i'm not a dealer, just happened by this board and recalled my experience helping a friend shop for a passat last week.
was the $1000 from the manufacturer or the dealership? manufacturer rebates shouldn't have anything to do with the price you negotiate with the dealer. dealer rebates have everything to do with how they will negotiate with you
I am a cash buyer, have financing already, no trade in vehicle and am interested in a used full sized van; Chevy Express/GMC Savanna or Ford E series. My question is how do I determine a dealer's cost.
I suspect it is nearly impossible to determine the "exact cost" on a used full sized van. (Many seem to be acquired by auction sales of former fleet vehicles). But any guidance would be appreciated by those in vehicle sales.
I have already perused Edmund's site and the TMV values for various listed used vans. Are these TMV values real world accurate?
In short how do I negoitate for a used full sized van when I do not know the dealer cost?
in the equation? The dealer paid a certain amount, plus transportation, plus recon, plus service, plus advertising and overhead...and is asking a retail price.
Figure out what a good market value is for the van, and go from there.
You won't find out the true cost, and even so, what does it matter? Pay a price you feel good about based on your research of market values from the sources here on Edmunds and several others.
Trying to make sure the dealer only makes $17.00 over what they paid at auction is not only impossible, it's a true waste of time.
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Seriously, too many people feel that email use applies equally to any business/commerce situation. It just may be the case that email will never be the car sales panacea that many hope for. Sort of like groceries-by-net has never really caught on (although many have tried).
The need to negotiate makes the whole thing vastly different than buying a camera from Best Buy or a book from Amazon.
Facsimiles went commercial in 1865 (link) and it only took it about 115 years to hit critical mass (maybe you remember faxes?). Email won't take quite as long I don't think.
Steve, Host
I don't mind if they don't get back with me immediately and they can be direct and to the point (without wasting an hour or so of time with me) with everyone for much less time.
Let's face it guys, you might not want to change, but consider this. Say you spend an hour responding to 20 emails - not difficult - from prospects. Let's assume all 20 of those prospects are looky-lou duds. Would you really rather waste 10 hours (at a conservative 30 minute interaction) having them come into the dealership for a "face-to-face" or 1 hour emailing them back?
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
its much easier for someone to click 10-12 times and hit "send inquiry" with no intention than to spend hours at a dealership.
the argument about the time spent on email is valid...you just didnt apply it to the correct group. ;-)
It's also huge in New York City, believe it or not. A stand-alone, web-only grocer called FreshDirect has been a huge hit here. They are considerably cheaper than a brick-and-mortar store (you can imagine the overhead a grocer pays in Manhattan, particularly), and their quality is on a par with a fancy gourmet supermarket. If you order by midnight on a weeknight, 9 p.m. before weekends, you can get your food as soon as 9 the next morning.
They require a $40 minimum and a $3.95 delivery charge. It's a great service if you don't have a car, get the same items every week, or are just pressed for time.
They are expanding their delivery area rapidly into the outer boroughs and are examining the prospects of suburban service.
Whether this'll work long term remains to be seen, but I think online grocers are here to stay in one form or another.
;-)
I suspect a lot of people long for the day when you can buy the car on-line and have it delivered to your door, never having to grace the showroom floor.
Steve, (not the) Host
Steve, Host
People want and need to drive them, sit on them, feel them.
You can do all the research you want but a website can't tell you how loud the car is, where the blind spots are, how comfortable the seats are etc.
For alot of people a car is the most expensive thing they will ever buy, a little time spent with the car before you sign for it is a good idea.
You fail to take into account that many of these people are sending this e-mail to anywhere between 5-100 dealers looking for that "special" deal that saves them a bit of money. Why not? I mean you can send out an e-mail to every dealership in the US with little cost.
If I were Bowkes, I would not respond to requests from Boise, ID if I am a dealer in Louisville.
The part of the equation that seems to escape a lot salespeople is that commerce requires competition. If you can't deal with competition, then the business is not right for you. Whether it's a phone call, email or someone standing in the dealership, if you don't want to interact with the customer in the way that they present themselves then you need to be another business. Or, you can be one of the people that customers complain about regarding customer service.
Since February '04 I've received over $200 in gift cards to a local restaurant group from my Lexus salesperson. Last week when I was in service and went back to say hi to her she was working on a deal for someone who is a friend of someone that I referred to her. She has done 7 deals with people that are a direct result of my referral since April.
For two weeks we emailed each other before I ever sat foot in the dealership.
My Toyota dealer has received two references from me since July and I know one of them is working they are just waiting for their car to come in. Again, I only dealt with him through email for two days before I went in and ordered the car.
Word of mouth is still very important to any salesperson.
a lexus dealership isnt exactly the leader in floor traffic.
It also helps salespeople in that customers generally know what they want when they come on the lot. Its rare that I have to spend alot of time educating a customer on our offerings.
The Quest will still be the ugliest one.
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Most? doubtful..
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Quest vs Sienna topic
kirstie_h
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I agree about the looks.. but, neither of them is making a "statement", like the Quest does.. It is just a statement that would be better off unsaid. IMHO
regards,
kyfdx
(who stays away from comparison threads)
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Although I'm only there because I'm shopping for a new family car.
OT, are people like some of the brand fanatics that militant when they come in to shop the competition, or are they so brand loyal that they only go to the brand of choice dealers?
I am curious, since no matter how predisposed I am to like a particular car, I always make sure to check out the competition to make sure I'm not missing out.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Unless we are talking about Subaru owners.. They are so danged happy about their cars, it is sickening.. It is one big group hug on those boards....LOL
regards,
kyfdx
(aka wimpy)
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Just leave a trail of bread crumbs for others to follow if you hike to another discussion.
kirstie_h
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PS - I prefer cinnamon raisin crumbs if possible, please.
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Now, my question for the car dealers is why do you do those gimmicky *auctions* and stuff like that? Like I'm really going to believe that 6 million dollars worth of cars were really abandoned or some other crazy thing.
The main sales pitch seemed to be, "We can have you out of here in an hour, before the storm gets here!"
Yeah, get your brand new car and put it in the driveway under the big oak right before the outer bands hit!
Do they really expect people to be out car shopping at times like this? I know all the business people around here are taking a beating after three big blows in six weeks, but is it too costly to simply scratch the whole thing and try it again on another day? Maybe when the wind gauge isn't topping 75 mph?
I'm not defending, just explaining - personally, I HATE those "slasher" sales, "auctions" and "tent events" - they actually do little for the dealer, considering they bring in all the local credit criminals and those who are flat broke, looking for something to do -
Of course, as long as there are "tent event" companies out there, there'll be dealers using them.
(I am still going to ask about it but I just wanted to know from a dealers point of view)
thanks
remember though that the incentive might not apply to models like the TDI, if you're shopping for that one. good luck!
disclaimer--i'm not a dealer, just happened by this board and recalled my experience helping a friend shop for a passat last week.
manufacturer rebates shouldn't have anything to do with the price you negotiate with the dealer.
dealer rebates have everything to do with how they will negotiate with you
I suspect it is nearly impossible to determine the "exact cost" on a used full sized van. (Many seem to be acquired by auction sales of former fleet vehicles). But any guidance would be appreciated by those in vehicle sales.
I have already perused Edmund's site and the TMV values for various listed used vans. Are these TMV values real world accurate?
In short how do I negoitate for a used full sized van when I do not know the dealer cost?
Figure out what a good market value is for the van, and go from there.
You won't find out the true cost, and even so, what does it matter? Pay a price you feel good about based on your research of market values from the sources here on Edmunds and several others.
Trying to make sure the dealer only makes $17.00 over what they paid at auction is not only impossible, it's a true waste of time.