"Because you don't go to Sears and ask what they paid for the refrigerator."
Then why is it relevant or reasonable for the dealer to say, "I can't sell at that price, even though it is a reasonable price for this vehicle at this time in this area, because I have more than that 'into the vehicle'?"
It's like the dealer can pull this tactic when it suits him, and he feels the customer is being naughty or overstepping his bounds when trying to do the same. This bothers me.
"Apart from anything else, it's just not good business practice to basically open your books to your customers."
Absolutely. But does that mean you hold it against the customer who does his homework on this? That's not the same thing.
I have a co-worker who is making my life hell. He wants to get a "great deal" on an Odyssey. I told him three weeks ago that he should plan to pay MSRP IF he wants that car. (And I told him about more affordable options but ...).
He has now shopped four or five dealers in the Chicago area and they told him ... MSRP. No discounts, no haggle as teh vehicles are on the lot for 2-3 days max.
I've had customer armed with file folders of their "research". They tell me my used car is 2000.00 too much money. I'll tell them that if were an average one in average condition that I would be able to sell it for that. I'll show them the inspection report and I'll show them that we spent 1500.00 in the shop bring it up to first rate condition. Often when they see they will more than likely end up with a troublefree car, they will raise their offer to something acceptable.
I've been out of the business for quite a while, but I remember many times when my father and I paid over "book" at the auctions for really clean, low mile, in demand cars. DId we ask over retail "book", you bet we did and usually got it because the MARKET was there. As has been said many times here, its a supply and demand economy, and this is much more the case in used cars rather than new as its hard to find the exact same car "down the street". BTW, lowball offers from customers never offended me, I just said no thank you. I know Isell will relate to this, but my dad used to say you can pay a lot for a cream-puff and always get your money out, but you can NEVER buy a dog cheap enough. Just my .02 worth
I won't blast you for it.. but, I will make a point..
If your choice is an Odyssey at MSRP, or a Town and Country for the same price, which is $4K under MSRP, then the Odyssey is the better value and probably well worth the money..
But, if the dealer down the street is selling the Odyssey for $2K off MSRP, then buying one at MSRP is a bad deal... value notwithstanding...
If you go the the Vans Forum or Prices Paid you'll see all kinds of "prices paid".
Some of these "prices paid" seem a bit far fetched but maybe they will be of help to you.
And, yeah, I'm sure it can be regional to some extent. Some models are in VERY short supply such as the EXL's with DVD and all NAVI models. The dealers have little reason to be discounting these.
... **So I started my bid at $16K flat, figuring to work up. Long story short, the lowest they came was $19,190. I didn't offer higher than $16.5, knowing the car needed $500 in new tires right off the bat. I told them I wasn't going much higher, and if they couldn't get closer we wouldn't need to waste anyone's time and we could go get some dinner. So we parted ways, still some $2700 apart** ...
=======================
Maybe this will make a little more sense ..... when I recommend a price, I *try* to "think" just like that particular dealer - how much did they put in it, how much for the service and/or how much for the auction fee's and transport, how much for the pack, what time of the year it is and what will it be like in 60 days, how common is the vehicle, how "aggressive " have the dealers been in Boston vs Atlanta, etc, and then leave a small margin of profit ....
I don't think you guys are $2,700 away, your probably only $500/$900ish away ... but what sometimes happens is, the consumer will "low ball" the dealer on a nice vehicle, the dealer thinks your waaay off, based on the Retail value and they loose interest "fast", at $16,5 he had nothin' .. see, profit isn't a 4 letter word and I think if you read enough of these posts some folks think a $500 loss or a $100 profit is a big thing, it's only a big thing when it's "not" their money ... now, if it's been sitting there for 2/3 months and the market has traveled south, then maybe a $200/$500/$700 loss would work (depending on the vehicle) ...
We always talk about 3 prices when you "sell" a vehicle: an Asking, a Liking and a Taking price .. that said, there is 3 prices when you go to "buy" a vehicle: a Stealing price, a Stone cold good price and a Satisfactory price ..... maybe in your mind, your were trying to complete the first one that leaves the dealer with no place to go.?
And yes, depending on the store and the dealer principle, how often they go to the auctions and who's actually going, then some dealers will pay $500/$1,500+ more on a vehicle .. and don't ask me why, but I've had the "dead mullet look" on my face more than once .. I've even asked them: "are you stopping off at the Home Depot before you get back to the store" ..l.o.l....
That's the easiest way to handle it, but what if the car is an uncommon vehicle in the area? That leaves the buyer with a tough choice -- pursue the car even though it may end up in some wasted time, i.e. fruitless negotiating.
I'm not in the business, but I wish I could slap every hard bargainer who thinks the dealer should discount a vehicle below MSRP even when it is selling like hotcakes at MSRP.
===== I don't think you guys are $2,700 away, your probably only $500/$900ish away .... We always talk about 3 prices when you "sell" a vehicle: an Asking, a Liking and a Taking price .. that said, there is 3 prices when you go to "buy" a vehicle: a Stealing price, a Stone cold good price and a Satisfactory price ..... maybe in your mind, your were trying to complete the first one that leaves the dealer with no place to go.? ========
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Perhaps I did start a little too low and try to get the "steal" right off the bat. You gotta get to first base before you can attempt to steal, right? :-) I hoped I wasn't asking for the car at a loss; I do believe any business is entitled to profit. I thought my offer included some, but without knowing what they really have in the car who knows?
I would have started higher, but I decided to pull about $750 off the table due to tires and no 30K service done yet (car at 33Kmi), so I'd have to spend closer to $1000 out-of-pocket the moment I bought the car. Then there was the issue of the "$399 dealer handling fee" they were gonna add on top--we hadn't even got there yet.
They didn't throw me out of the showroom on the spot at my first offer, anyway. I even got the obligatory "You're killing me!" note from the manager. :-) Maybe I was.
I don't think I burned my bridges--I tried to be polite and not take up their time when I felt I wasn't going to get close. (I felt a little bad that one of their greenpeas had to keep me company for several hours on a long test drive and trip to the mechanic.) I'll think some more and maybe both parties will loosen up a bit towards the end of the month.
You will/have come to grips that you are going to have to pay more and they know they do have a serious buyer that wants a better price.
I'm trying to think. In the almost ten years I've been at this I don't think I've ever had anyone offer me 5000.00 below our asking price on a used car. I wouldn't be offended but I have to say, I would be very irrated if I had spent several hours with them test driving and such.
And, I would lose all interest at that point.
I have had really low offers on cars. I'm always polite and I gently let them know they are simply on a car beyond their budget. I'll suggest we look for a different car. By doing things this way, I do get a lot of "be-backs". These are people who leave, shop some more, come to grips with the market and return to buy the car.
Very good and informative posts here everyone.Generally speaking(and I mean generally)wouldn't trying to buy at private owner price at a dealership be a reasonable goal? i.e Trade-in value is $8,500. Private seller price is $10,000...and dealer retail is $12,000. Maybe, make an initial offer of around $9,300???
How do you get $700 in transporting a car from auction? I see auctions around this greater area. Dealers have drivers who drive the cars back in an hour or two.
===== I'm trying to think. In the almost ten years I've been at this I don't think I've ever had anyone offer me 5000.00 below our asking price on a used car. =====
The car was CPO, and I decided on my offer figuring the CPO cost was included in the asking price. But every offer they brought out listed a price for the car... "plus CPO", as if I couldn't add. Yes, their "car asking price" was comparable for others I researched on the net, but I assume those prices included the CPO charge. That put us $1200 off from the get-go. Am I wrong? Is it standard practice for any CPO charges to be over and above the advertised price? More dealer trickery, IMHO.
And I expected a car of this price, CPO especially, to have decent tires. Not new, but at least drivable. That's something I would deduct from an offer whether the car cost $20K or $2K.
I was willing to overlook the 5-month old pile of pistachio shells I found in one of the seatback pockets. :-) :-)
BTW, I could lay numbers out here if anyone is interested in doing the math :-), but I don't want to monopolize the board. I keep running them and getting up around $17.5 for this car, but not much higher, and that's with $1.5K profit thrown in. Maybe if I walked thru the details you could tell me where my wrong step was.
Anyway, you guys here do a great service to car buyers and (private) sellers everywhere, and I appreciate the thoughts and advice. Knowledge is power, and you guys help educate everyone to be better armed!
I asked this earlier, but it got lost in all the recent posts re: offers miles apart.
On another topic - if I am looking at used 2004 Siennas, how much under what I can buy a new 2005 should I look to spend. In other words, if I can get a new 2005 for $32.5k, what should I look to pay for a comparable 2004 with 12k miles for example? I am thinking $27k, but they seems to be going for $30k+, which to me makes no sense.
What do you think - what should I look to pay for a comparable used 2004 vs. a new 2005?
Since you are willing to consider a used car/van then I suggest that you consider a 1 year old car or van from a rental car agency.
There's a dealer out here in Socal that is selling 2004 Chevy Venture or Oldsmobile Silhouette vans or $12950. They all are fully equipped/fully cleaned up and have around 20-30 k miles on them. They still have the balance of the 36k miles factory warranty on them.
They just seem like a much much better value than dropping $30k on a Toyota.
Well, we are in Washington state and a lot of the auctions we attend are in California or Florida.
It's not easy to find and buy the right cars and we go wherever we have to. With the escalating fuel costs, transportation charges have taken another hike.
I asked this earlier, but it got lost in all the recent posts re: offers miles apart.
On another topic - if I am looking at used 2004 Siennas, how much under what I can buy a new 2005 should I look to spend. In other words, if I can get a new 2005 for $32.5k, what should I look to pay for a comparable 2004 with 12k miles for example? I am thinking $27k, but they seems to be going for $30k+, which to me makes no sense.
What do you think - what should I look to pay for a comparable used 2004 vs. a new 2005?
Yup, CPO is Saab for "Certified Pre-Owned". It's a '01 9-5 wagon with 33Kmi; still 5mo on original warranty; CPO adds two years. Here is Terry's original diagnosis:
"the Saab has lower miles, auto and we have that CPO thing going on .. IF ~ it's nice, no paintwork, clean Carsmack, just a nice wagon .. then the dealer probably has the super tall $12's, low low low $13's in it - but lets add the CPO, then it probably hits the table at in and around the $14ish figure ..... you should be able to trade for your vehicle [was offered $1100] and the super tall $15's, low low low $16's *difference* ~ so your on the money ........ $19,950.? -great price if your Yasser Arafat ..."
Even with my new, generous math: Dlr paid $14K (Edmunds trade-in for "excellent condition"), +$700 transport (PA to CO) +$1.2K for CPO +$500 they put into fix-ups (actual) +$1.5K profit == $17.9, minus $500 for tires and say $200 'cause it's overdue for 30K service (oil change and plugs) and our grand total is $17.2. Still $2K under their "best offer". Unreasonable?
Not unreasonable according to your math and Terry's estimates but it didn't buy you the car.
Saabs never seem to do well on resale. that dealer could well have paid too much. Maybe you would want to shop elsewhere. I have no idea what it's worth but I would guess it isn't in high demand.
> 9-5 Wagon isn't super-common; do you have any other prospects on similar vehicles? <
I haven't been to check out the Denver Saab dealers, but a Volvo or Subaru wagon would fit the bill nicely, if not as exciting. Outbacks and V70XC's are a dime a dozen in CO.
Saab Dealer here has two additional wagons sitting that they bought at the same time. '02 cars are due to come off lease soon. I don't need a car today; I have time so I think I'll wait it out for now. Thanks again for everybody's input. I'm just glad to know I'm not crazy. :-)
Yup, I agree with you - as much as the customer shouldn't be demanding that the dealer reveal his actual cost for the vehicle, neither should the dealer use the "I've got this much $$ invested in this car..." line. If the dealer's put too much $$ into the car, that's his fault, not yours.
It's (still) like selling your house - the prospective buyer couldn't care less how much $$ you spent on it - if it's priced out of the market, it's not going to sell. If it's priced within the market, it'll go sooner or later.
kirstie_h Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
....... So the numbers work out, it's your offer that is a little off kilter .... you left him at $16,5, that might work with your trade ... the tire thing.? if it needs them, then it costs money and the dealer probably feels he needs to get X amount of money to make it worth his while .. spend the extra $500 with the dealer, or buy them on your own ..... never trip over those dollars to get to them dimes, your still waaaay back of retail ................
> So the numbers work out, it's your offer that is a little off kilter .... you left him at $16,5
... thus my original question. I was gonna go up towards $17, maybe a bit more like my $17.2 number, but we were so far apart I wasn't sure it was worth wasting anyone's time. The gap was big enough I wasn't sure what to do... $2700 apart and I'm gonna bump my offer just $500-700? Esp. with the extra $399 dlr handling "pack" coming at the end? I just kinda froze up and thought, "I've been here long enough, I don't want to waste any more of their time, let's just cut and run."
In hindsight, maybe I shoulda offered, maybe, $17.1 and said if they could conjure up some new tires and do the 30K service there's $700 more but we gotta talk about this dealer handling thing.... Do I look like a good guy or an idiot if I go back with this, when it's still over $1000 under their "best offer"?
If I were your customer and called you back, would you be inclined to even listen?
Same Saab deal but unrelated to price.... At the very start of negotiating they tried to get me to give them two references, saying the Patriot Act required them to get references for anyone buying a car. Is this really true? Are we in Russia yet? Or are they looking to pad their mailing and call lists?
If untrue, a lie like that makes me more than a bit angry....
Do yourself a major favor and find another dealer. If you really must have a Saab, you will find another one. Patriot Act?? What a bunch of total crap!
A beautiful woman goes to the doctor with a sore foot. The front desk says go down to the inside waiting room on your left and take off all of your clothes.
The woman objects saying "but I just had a sore foot" but eventually complies. As she complies with their request she remarks to another woman waiting there that it is ridiculous to take off all of your clothes just for a sore foot.
The other woman then says "You think that's ridiculous, I just came in to pay a bill !"
Moral: Some people will do whatever you ask them to.
The Patriot Act dealer is just asking you to go down the hall to the inside waiting room and take off your clothes.
Where I live (in Northern Virginia), the only SAAB dealer is typically several thousand more than they *should* be on used cars. What is interesting is my Neighbor and I both bought 2001 SAAB SE wagons in Dec. 2001. Mine was new, his had 17,000 miles. They were comperably equiped. He paid $300 less than I did. At the same dealer.
SAAB's are funny cars. the 9-5 wagon seems to be the best mid-size sports wagon for under 35K (in my opinion). And the V6 engine is proving extremely reliable (with the proper maintnence).
.....At the very start of negotiating they tried to get me to give them two references, saying the Patriot Act required them to get references for anyone buying a car.....
Some of our finance sources require full credit applications including multiple refrences. This isnt just for sub-prime anymore. But I have never ever heard of refrences to negotiate. Is there more to this???????
In my area (SE Michigan), several of the dealers of smaller-volume brands seem to ask premium prices for used cars of the same make. E.g. a local Volvo / Subaru dealer slaps some outrageous prices on its used Volvos/Subies. Sure, I'd feel better buying a used Subaru from the same dealer where the vehicle was bought new, serviced, and traded in. But how much is that worth? It's not worth the $2-4k premium this dealer seems to be asking for. I don't know how often they are getting it.
>>In my area (SE Michigan), several of the dealers of smaller-volume brands seem to ask premium prices for used cars of the same make. <<
I don't think that that is any different in other markets or with other brands.
Some of the BEST deals I have made are cars that are on the "wrong" lot. Buy a Saturn on a Ford lot and you'll pay sunstantially less than if you buy a similar from a Saturn dealership. Buy a low-end vehicle on a lot generally sells luxury cars.
>> Some of our finance sources require full credit applications including multiple refrences. This isnt just for sub-prime anymore. But I have never ever heard of refrences to negotiate. Is there more to this??????? <<
Probably not; I think he was trying to get financing docs filled out before we even started... and before he even pulled my credit score, which would shame him.
Perhaps things would have been better with my original salesman (from my original test drive), but unfortunately he was gone when I went in to actually buy. Then I spent the afternoon drive and mechanic's visit with the greenpea. So I really didn't work wiht this guy at all until we sat down to negotiate. And he rubbed me the wrong way.
I don't mind negotiating, but I don't like playing games. This kid I'm sure was just doing what he'd been told, but he will need to learn to read his customers better. Beside the "Patriot Act" garbage, he tried to get me to sign a blank worksheet! Oh, and of course the sales manager just happened to know someone who would be interested in a car just like my trade! That's part of the reason I choked up, I just wasn't comfortable with all the BS. I expected a little better from a luxury-car dealership, but maybe it's just my naivete and lack of car-buying experience.
His best line of the brief negotiations: "Sir, this isn't a used car! It's pre-owned!" :-)
Okay, to drift topics a bit... I go in and the salesperson I end up with is giving me all this. How do I "fix" things? Tell 'em straight out not to bother? Ask for another salesperson?
Thanks bobst. I figured I would make another offer, but I'd wait a bit and look for other alternatives. But wouldn't you know, I just got a call from the sales manager.
Told him I wanted a straight up number, w/cert warantee & handling, everything but TTL. Offered $17.3, plus more if they put on new tires & 30K service. He came back with $17.8. Now we're close enough it will probably happen.
and that's one of my biggest pet peeves here on Edmunds - people will complain that a dealer is throwing continual lines of bull, but they still buy a car from them, reinforcing and rewarding bad behavior and business practices...
There's more vehicles out there like the one you're looking at, and there are certainly more places to buy one - if your BS detector goes off, the last thing you want to do is stay where you are!
I have absolutely NO sympathy for someone complaining about a dealer when they weren't smart enough to walk - kinda like griping about politics when you didn't vote.....I, for one, won't be listening....
Comments
Then why is it relevant or reasonable for the dealer to say, "I can't sell at that price, even though it is a reasonable price for this vehicle at this time in this area, because I have more than that 'into the vehicle'?"
It's like the dealer can pull this tactic when it suits him, and he feels the customer is being naughty or overstepping his bounds when trying to do the same. This bothers me.
"Apart from anything else, it's just not good business practice to basically open your books to your customers."
Absolutely. But does that mean you hold it against the customer who does his homework on this? That's not the same thing.
He has now shopped four or five dealers in the Chicago area and they told him ... MSRP. No discounts, no haggle as teh vehicles are on the lot for 2-3 days max.
Is there any way that he can do any better?
They are in high demand and short supply right now depending on the model.
If your choice is an Odyssey at MSRP, or a Town and Country for the same price, which is $4K under MSRP, then the Odyssey is the better value and probably well worth the money..
But, if the dealer down the street is selling the Odyssey for $2K off MSRP, then buying one at MSRP is a bad deal... value notwithstanding...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
leapfrog "Lease Questions - Ask Here" Nov 16, 2004 9:21am
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Some of these "prices paid" seem a bit far fetched but maybe they will be of help to you.
And, yeah, I'm sure it can be regional to some extent. Some models are in VERY short supply such as the EXL's with DVD and all NAVI models. The dealers have little reason to be discounting these.
Guess anything is possible.
=======================
Maybe this will make a little more sense ..... when I recommend a price, I *try* to "think" just like that particular dealer - how much did they put in it, how much for the service and/or how much for the auction fee's and transport, how much for the pack, what time of the year it is and what will it be like in 60 days, how common is the vehicle, how "aggressive " have the dealers been in Boston vs Atlanta, etc, and then leave a small margin of profit ....
I don't think you guys are $2,700 away, your probably only $500/$900ish away ... but what sometimes happens is, the consumer will "low ball" the dealer on a nice vehicle, the dealer thinks your waaay off, based on the Retail value and they loose interest "fast", at $16,5 he had nothin' .. see, profit isn't a 4 letter word and I think if you read enough of these posts some folks think a $500 loss or a $100 profit is a big thing, it's only a big thing when it's "not" their money ... now, if it's been sitting there for 2/3 months and the market has traveled south, then maybe a $200/$500/$700 loss would work (depending on the vehicle) ...
We always talk about 3 prices when you "sell" a vehicle: an Asking, a Liking and a Taking price .. that said, there is 3 prices when you go to "buy" a vehicle: a Stealing price, a Stone cold good price and a Satisfactory price ..... maybe in your mind, your were trying to complete the first one that leaves the dealer with no place to go.?
And yes, depending on the store and the dealer principle, how often they go to the auctions and who's actually going, then some dealers will pay $500/$1,500+ more on a vehicle .. and don't ask me why, but I've had the "dead mullet look" on my face more than once .. I've even asked them: "are you stopping off at the Home Depot before you get back to the store" ..l.o.l....
Terry.
I don't think you guys are $2,700 away, your probably only $500/$900ish away ....
We always talk about 3 prices when you "sell" a vehicle: an Asking, a Liking and a Taking price .. that said, there is 3 prices when you go to "buy" a vehicle: a Stealing price, a Stone cold good price and a Satisfactory price ..... maybe in your mind, your were trying to complete the first one that leaves the dealer with no place to go.?
========
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Perhaps I did start a little too low and try to get the "steal" right off the bat. You gotta get to first base before you can attempt to steal, right? :-) I hoped I wasn't asking for the car at a loss; I do believe any business is entitled to profit. I thought my offer included some, but without knowing what they really have in the car who knows?
I would have started higher, but I decided to pull about $750 off the table due to tires and no 30K service done yet (car at 33Kmi), so I'd have to spend closer to $1000 out-of-pocket the moment I bought the car. Then there was the issue of the "$399 dealer handling fee" they were gonna add on top--we hadn't even got there yet.
They didn't throw me out of the showroom on the spot at my first offer, anyway. I even got the obligatory "You're killing me!" note from the manager. :-) Maybe I was.
I don't think I burned my bridges--I tried to be polite and not take up their time when I felt I wasn't going to get close. (I felt a little bad that one of their greenpeas had to keep me company for several hours on a long test drive and trip to the mechanic.) I'll think some more and maybe both parties will loosen up a bit towards the end of the month.
I'm trying to think. In the almost ten years I've been at this I don't think I've ever had anyone offer me 5000.00 below our asking price on a used car. I wouldn't be offended but I have to say, I would be very irrated if I had spent several hours with them test driving and such.
And, I would lose all interest at that point.
I have had really low offers on cars. I'm always polite and I gently let them know they are simply on a car beyond their budget. I'll suggest we look for a different car. By doing things this way, I do get a lot of "be-backs". These are people who leave, shop some more, come to grips with the market and return to buy the car.
Hopefully, the car is still there!
Good Luck!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm trying to think. In the almost ten years I've been at this I don't think I've ever had anyone offer me 5000.00 below our asking price on a used car.
=====
The car was CPO, and I decided on my offer figuring the CPO cost was included in the asking price. But every offer they brought out listed a price for the car... "plus CPO", as if I couldn't add. Yes, their "car asking price" was comparable for others I researched on the net, but I assume those prices included the CPO charge. That put us $1200 off from the get-go. Am I wrong? Is it standard practice for any CPO charges to be over and above the advertised price? More dealer trickery, IMHO.
And I expected a car of this price, CPO especially, to have decent tires. Not new, but at least drivable. That's something I would deduct from an offer whether the car cost $20K or $2K.
I was willing to overlook the 5-month old pile of pistachio shells I found in one of the seatback pockets. :-) :-)
BTW, I could lay numbers out here if anyone is interested in doing the math :-), but I don't want to monopolize the board. I keep running them and getting up around $17.5 for this car, but not much higher, and that's with $1.5K profit thrown in. Maybe if I walked thru the details you could tell me where my wrong step was.
Anyway, you guys here do a great service to car buyers and (private) sellers everywhere, and I appreciate the thoughts and advice. Knowledge is power, and you guys help educate everyone to be better armed!
On another topic - if I am looking at used 2004 Siennas, how much under what I can buy a new 2005 should I look to spend. In other words, if I can get a new 2005 for $32.5k, what should I look to pay for a comparable 2004 with 12k miles for example? I am thinking $27k, but they seems to be going for $30k+, which to me makes no sense.
What do you think - what should I look to pay for a comparable used 2004 vs. a new 2005?
Thanks - Damon
Since you are willing to consider a used car/van then I suggest that you consider a 1 year old car or van from a rental car agency.
There's a dealer out here in Socal that is selling 2004 Chevy Venture or Oldsmobile Silhouette vans or $12950. They all are fully equipped/fully cleaned up and have around 20-30 k miles on them. They still have the balance of the 36k miles factory warranty on them.
They just seem like a much much better value than dropping $30k on a Toyota.
It's not easy to find and buy the right cars and we go wherever we have to. With the escalating fuel costs, transportation charges have taken another hike.
If so, it should have decent tires. I know Honda requires us to replace tires that I know I could get another 20,000 miles on.
What kind of a car is this anyway? Just curious.
On another topic - if I am looking at used 2004 Siennas, how much under what I can buy a new 2005 should I look to spend. In other words, if I can get a new 2005 for $32.5k, what should I look to pay for a comparable 2004 with 12k miles for example? I am thinking $27k, but they seems to be going for $30k+, which to me makes no sense.
What do you think - what should I look to pay for a comparable used 2004 vs. a new 2005?
Thanks - Damon
"the Saab has lower miles, auto and we have that CPO thing going on .. IF ~ it's nice, no paintwork, clean Carsmack, just a nice wagon .. then the dealer probably has the super tall $12's, low low low $13's in it - but lets add the CPO, then it probably hits the table at in and around the $14ish figure ..... you should be able to trade for your vehicle [was offered $1100] and the super tall $15's, low low low $16's *difference* ~ so your on the money ........ $19,950.? -great price if your Yasser Arafat ..."
Even with my new, generous math: Dlr paid $14K (Edmunds trade-in for "excellent condition"), +$700 transport (PA to CO) +$1.2K for CPO +$500 they put into fix-ups (actual) +$1.5K profit == $17.9, minus $500 for tires and say $200 'cause it's overdue for 30K service (oil change and plugs) and our grand total is $17.2. Still $2K under their "best offer". Unreasonable?
9-5 Wagon isn't super-common; do you have any other prospects on similar vehicles?
Saabs never seem to do well on resale. that dealer could well have paid too much. Maybe you would want to shop elsewhere. I have no idea what it's worth but I would guess it isn't in high demand.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I haven't been to check out the Denver Saab dealers, but a Volvo or Subaru wagon would fit the bill nicely, if not as exciting. Outbacks and V70XC's are a dime a dozen in CO.
Saab Dealer here has two additional wagons sitting that they bought at the same time. '02 cars are due to come off lease soon. I don't need a car today; I have time so I think I'll wait it out for now. Thanks again for everybody's input. I'm just glad to know I'm not crazy. :-)
Yup, I agree with you - as much as the customer shouldn't be demanding that the dealer reveal his actual cost for the vehicle, neither should the dealer use the "I've got this much $$ invested in this car..." line. If the dealer's put too much $$ into the car, that's his fault, not yours.
It's (still) like selling your house - the prospective buyer couldn't care less how much $$ you spent on it - if it's priced out of the market, it's not going to sell. If it's priced within the market, it'll go sooner or later.
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Terry.
Terry.
... thus my original question. I was gonna go up towards $17, maybe a bit more like my $17.2 number, but we were so far apart I wasn't sure it was worth wasting anyone's time. The gap was big enough I wasn't sure what to do... $2700 apart and I'm gonna bump my offer just $500-700? Esp. with the extra $399 dlr handling "pack" coming at the end? I just kinda froze up and thought, "I've been here long enough, I don't want to waste any more of their time, let's just cut and run."
In hindsight, maybe I shoulda offered, maybe, $17.1 and said if they could conjure up some new tires and do the 30K service there's $700 more but we gotta talk about this dealer handling thing.... Do I look like a good guy or an idiot if I go back with this, when it's still over $1000 under their "best offer"?
If I were your customer and called you back, would you be inclined to even listen?
If you want to offer money to buy the car, then go to the dealer and make an offer. See what happens.
At least you will learn something that will help make the car-buying process more enjoyable in the future.
If untrue, a lie like that makes me more than a bit angry....
The woman objects saying "but I just had a sore foot" but eventually complies. As she complies with their request she remarks to another woman waiting there that it is ridiculous to take off all of your clothes just for a sore foot.
The other woman then says "You think that's ridiculous, I just came in to pay a bill !"
Moral: Some people will do whatever you ask them to.
The Patriot Act dealer is just asking you to go down the hall to the inside waiting room and take off your clothes.
Terry
A new 2005 with a $35.5 sticker I can buy for around $32.4.
I am seeing used 2004's with the same options 'asking' anywhere from $29-$35k with 8-18k miles.
I guess my question is - at what price does it make sense to buy a used 2004 vs. a new 2005.
I think $27.5k or so - but it looks like I might be in the wrong ballpark.
Damon
SAAB's are funny cars. the 9-5 wagon seems to be the best mid-size sports wagon for under 35K (in my opinion). And the V6 engine is proving extremely reliable (with the proper maintnence).
Some of our finance sources require full credit applications including multiple refrences. This isnt just for sub-prime anymore. But I have never ever heard of refrences to negotiate. Is there more to this???????
I don't think that that is any different in other markets or with other brands.
Some of the BEST deals I have made are cars that are on the "wrong" lot. Buy a Saturn on a Ford lot and you'll pay sunstantially less than if you buy a similar from a Saturn dealership. Buy a low-end vehicle on a lot generally sells luxury cars.
Probably not; I think he was trying to get financing docs filled out before we even started... and before he even pulled my credit score, which would shame him.
Perhaps things would have been better with my original salesman (from my original test drive), but unfortunately he was gone when I went in to actually buy. Then I spent the afternoon drive and mechanic's visit with the greenpea. So I really didn't work wiht this guy at all until we sat down to negotiate. And he rubbed me the wrong way.
I don't mind negotiating, but I don't like playing games. This kid I'm sure was just doing what he'd been told, but he will need to learn to read his customers better. Beside the "Patriot Act" garbage, he tried to get me to sign a blank worksheet! Oh, and of course the sales manager just happened to know someone who would be interested in a car just like my trade! That's part of the reason I choked up, I just wasn't comfortable with all the BS. I expected a little better from a luxury-car dealership, but maybe it's just my naivete and lack of car-buying experience.
His best line of the brief negotiations: "Sir, this isn't a used car! It's pre-owned!" :-)
Okay, to drift topics a bit... I go in and the salesperson I end up with is giving me all this. How do I "fix" things? Tell 'em straight out not to bother? Ask for another salesperson?
If you hear a 'Yes', write out a check. If they accept it, then get in the new car and drive home.
Otherwise, get in your car and drive home.
Told him I wanted a straight up number, w/cert warantee & handling, everything but TTL. Offered $17.3, plus more if they put on new tires & 30K service. He came back with $17.8. Now we're close enough it will probably happen.
I do hope it works out for you.
There's more vehicles out there like the one you're looking at, and there are certainly more places to buy one - if your BS detector goes off, the last thing you want to do is stay where you are!
I have absolutely NO sympathy for someone complaining about a dealer when they weren't smart enough to walk - kinda like griping about politics when you didn't vote.....I, for one, won't be listening....