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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,650
    No... the dealer DOES get charged back.. read his post again..

    The finance reserve.. That is what the dealer is paid for writing the loan... The higher the rate, the bigger the reserve..

    If you pay off the loan in the first 90 days, they chargeback the finance reserve.. and, the dealer has to give up the profit from writing the loan..

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  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... **If you pay off the loan in the first 90 days, they chargeback the finance reserve.. and, the dealer has to give up the profit from writing the loan..**

    Bingo.!

    Terry.
  • dbauerdbauer Member Posts: 416
    they dont charge back the $1000 bonus cash...they charge back the finance reserve. these are 2 totally different amounts of money. dont worry about it...go refinance ASAP.
  • osubeavosubeav Member Posts: 56
    Bear with me, please - I must be a little slow this morning. Are you saying that the GMAC financing rebate is the dealer's loan profit passed on to me? And if I refinance, I keep the $1000 but the dealer pays it back? That doesn't seem to make good business sense, especially since there is nothing in the paperwork that requires us to wait 90 days.

    I thought is was more likely that GM was out the grand and the dealer would lose a few hundred extra on the deal for financing me.

    There was a simple way for GMAC to get their money back - match the 5.5% that I can get from USAA. Then there is no incentive for me to refinance.
  • osubeavosubeav Member Posts: 56
    Oops. Was typing my last message while you posted yours. That's more in line with what I thought was true.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... **...Bricklin says each store will turn 4,000 cars a year** ...

    Yeah, and Mick Jagger called me last night and put me in the band .... thats 325+ units a month, the largest Hyundai/Kia/VW/Subaru/Acura/Honda/Mazda dealer in the country hasn't gotten even cloooose those figures and they have lots of time to do it ..

    I can't believe this has even grown the legs it has and received as much coverage (must be a slow news week) everyone thats "in" the business just scratches their heads and laughs .... whats next, Martian Motors..?? (only in red, thank you)

    Terry.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... **they charge back the finance reserve.** ..

    Take off those dark sunglasses and get some eye drops .. thats what Kyfdx posted ..

    I bet if it came out of your paycheck you wouldn't be posting that .l.o.l..

    Terry.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    I'm currently working with Plaza on another project - not only do they have a nice logo, they're good folks.

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  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    There are 3 Hyundai dealers in the country that sold more than 4,000 units last year. Out of 600+ dealers, that makes Bricklin's claim pretty ridiculous.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ....... That includes new, used (certified), fleet and buy backs .. drop another 40% off those numbers and your seeing $2,500ish(?) ....... 4,000 ..? .. ok, I have this property just south of Clewiston and ...............

    Terry ;)
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    It doesn't include used. Hyundai does not allow us to include fleet sales in our number, but they are all in different regions so maybe they have different rules regarding that. One is in Las Vegas. The other two are in New York. I'd imagine that ther is a good bit of fleet sales in those areas.

    I'm looking to move to Florida within the next five years or so. Tell me more about that property.
  • boomer1bboomer1b Member Posts: 316
    Stores if I am correct 1 is in Las Vegas and the other in Syracuse NY are owned by the same guy.

    He has a "HUGH" moniker as his tag line in all his advertising. He owns quite a few auto stores. He started with one small store in Adams NY. and now sells many brands.................

    He just bought himself a new jet recently !
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    You are thinking of the right guy. He owns Atlantic Hyundai in New York. They sold 4928 last year, and Planet in Vegas. Planet was #1 with 5299 sales. The syracuse store is a different owner. They sold 4642 last year.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    What is the amount of the loan? How much will you still owe after three months?

    I ask those questions because I have heard some dealers compute the balance of the loan is a strange way.

    Assume you are borrowing $20K and your payments are $400 per month. Assume you would pay $1200 interest over the life of the loan.

    Some dealers might figure that, since you will be paying $1200 interest, the first three payments are used to only pay the interest.

    After three months of paying $400, the interest over the life of the loan will be paid off, but you would still owe $20K. That means you will have paid $1200 for nothing.

    I suggest you get the answers to the questions I posed in the first paragraph.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,650
    Almost every loan is a simple interest loan now... Some loans do still come with prepayment penalties (those should be avoided).

    The loans you refer to... That used to be called the "Rule of 78s".. And it was onerous.. The last loan I took out that had that provision was in 1982. It raised my payoff by $400 over what a simple interest loan would be, when I paid it off two years later..

    I doubt a loan through a captive finance arm would have a pre-payment penalty, but you never know.. Either way, the interest difference over 90 days would be minimal.

    And, in this instance, the buyer was actually worried about the dealer losing money, not them losing their rebate... How noble!!

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    GMAC uses the rule of 78's still, but they do not have any prepayment penalties.
  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Member Posts: 543
    Get real bobst, this is a GMAC loan, it's a simple amortization.

    I also never hears of GMAC charging a "processing fee" to process a payoff. That's more along what a home morgatge company might do.

    I think no one ans answered the original poster's question as to eactly how much the finance resever is on such a loan. Anybody care to hazard a guess or provide a formula?

    Looks like USAA is raising its rates again, it was in the low 4's earlier this year. Good lick with the purchase.
  • osubeavosubeav Member Posts: 56
    It's for $25K. It's definitely a simple interest loan (Rule of 78's are illegal for any loan over 60 months). The difference in interest is about $140. I'm more worried about the rates going up in the next 3 months.

    To be honest, I'm only worried about the dealer losing money because these are the only local guys available if I have any warranty issues. The next closest reputable dealer is over 90 miles away. I don't want to get into a spitting match with them over lost money.

    However, if it comes down to them losing a couple of hundred in extra profits and me paying several thousand in extra interest, I know which I choose.
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    Chargebacks are a cost of doing business. I can't think of any dealer giving you problems in the service area because you refinanced your loan. Chances are the service writers will never hear anything about it, nor would they care if they did know. They are worrying about their profits, not the sales department's.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    The loan is for $25K.

    How much will you owe after three months?
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    GMAC uses the rule of 78's still, but they do not have any prepayment penalties

    Rule of 78 is a built-in prepayment penalty!
  • osubeavosubeav Member Posts: 56
    If I made my first payment (434/month) at 30 days and made all three payments (instead of 1 payment at 45 days, when it's actually due, another at 30 and then refinance with 15 days of interest accrued), I would owe $24167 after 90 days.

    If I where to refinance immediately, at 5.5% (payments of 408.45/month) and make the same payments, I would owe $24114, but would have paid about $77 more.

    Is that what you wanted to know, bobst?
  • ga_jeepga_jeep Member Posts: 1
    Ok, I apologize...I haven't reread ALL of the posts on the refinancing issue. But here are a few tips...hope these help

    1) The folks who you are wanting to refinance with should be motivated to help do some of the legwork to make sure everything is on the up and up (you aren't breaking any contracted agreements)

    2) The service department is MOST definitely a completely separate entity. The dealership wins NOTHING if you take your vehicle 90 miles away for service. Not even the sales dept. If you will at least keep coming in for service, you will probably give them a chance for your next vehicle

    3) Someone from the manufacturer may be able to walk you through the logistics...check out their website...look for a 1800 number...they get questions like this all the time.

    Hope that helps.
  • osubeavosubeav Member Posts: 56
    Thanks, ga_jeep. I read through everything and it specifically states there is no penalty for prepayment. The dealer also admitted I wouldn't be charged anything.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    You gave two figures.

    Based on the first set of numbers, I computed that you were paying about 7.5% interest, which is reasonable, I guess.

    Based on the second set of numbers, I calculated that you would be paying about 5.5%, which is what you stated. Therefore, I don't think they are trying to screw you.

    Hope you like your new car. We love the one we bought last week.
  • osubeavosubeav Member Posts: 56
    Thanks bobst. I love my pickup.

    I never thought they were trying to screw me (though I was extremely careful going over the paperwork of the loan, looking for "gotchas").

    I've decided that I'll call GMAC when I get my account number and ask them to change the rate so we don't have to refinance. If they won't, then we will probably go with USAA right away.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    I doubt they'll change the rate - GMAC doesn't refinance or renegotiate contracts...
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    Ok....I bought the car 1 week ago. After the testdrive, I noticed that there was a nail in one of the tires. The salesperson said they would take care of it....I had the car for about 1 day and notices really loud (but intermittent) dashboard rattles. I took it back for that after only 20 miles, and they could not reproduce it.

    Fast forward to today. I notice that the tire that had the nail in it had another nail -- one that looked just like the first nail. I wanted to see how good it was in, and low and behold, the nail comes out and the tire goes flat. I think it was in there prior to delivery.

    So I call the dealer, and find my way upto the GM. I mention that I am currently not satified, given the nail and the rattle. I specifically mentioned the satisfaction survey. He askes what can he do to make me happy with my purchase, to which I responded, 1) a new tire (not a repaired tire), and 2) fix the rattle.

    Was I out of line for mentioning the survey? I do not think my demands were unreasonable.

    Oh...this is a Subaru Forester LLBEAN, not Jolie's titanic
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ....... You did the right thing ... it should have been towed and dropped off and repaired/replaced immediately ..

    If that was you, and the call made it to me, the salesman would be following you home .. "if" ya know what I mean .... and using the survey is just fine.!



    Terry.
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    ****Oh...this is a Subaru Forester LLBEAN, not Jolie's titanic****

    Is this pick on me day?? LOL, my truck is behaving, has been out of the shop for almost a week now. Put 200 miles on it today and enjoyed the heck out of my truck.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    On further reflection regarding my new LLBEAN: there are a lot of stone chips in the tire treads. They were there before I purchased the car. Is it reasonable to request (demand!) that the rips be removed to make sure none of the other tires have a similar issue?

    I *want* to be reasonable. The dealer is by far the most convient one to my house and office. (it is across the street from my office). And, I did not shop all over town; I accepted the 'internet' price. By the paperwork which I saw in the F&I office (I was not supposed to see it, but I can read upsidedown), the profit on the car was $700.00, so they made decent money on the car.

    However, I can not accept bad tires. And, clearly the car should not have been delivered with nails in the tires. I suspect the problem was that no one inspected the tires.

    And, for the record, the last 5 new cars I purchased (over 10 years), this is the first one to have any issues before 20000 miles, and that included a ford taurus.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The only mistake you made was in removing the nail!

    Bet you won't do THAT again! :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    "Stone chips in the tire treads"

    Never heard of such a thing.

    ????
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Isell, does your dealership normally inspect the tires on new cars to make sure they have no nails in them?

    Manamal, are you really considering going back to the dealer and asking them to remove the stone chips stuck in the treads of your tires?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Of course not. Those nails were probably picked up during the test drive.

    Happy Easter to you!
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Thanks for responding, Isell. Happy Easter to you, too.

    Manamal, I knew a person who had a nice Ford Torino in the 1970's. It got a little tear in the upholstery, so he traded it in for a new car. Very soon after, he got rear-ended.

    I told him it was God's way of telling him he should not have traded in a perfectly good car.

    Manamal, maybe the little problems you are having is a subtle messgae from Above. Your lovely Camry should have been treated better and given more respect. It had served you well, but by trading it in so soon you upset the cosmic order. That is why nails appear out of nowhere.

    If you see the errors of your ways and repent, your new car will be wonderful.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    There was a nail or two in the tire that I noticed after the test drive. I suspect they had been there for a while (based on the amount of wear on the nail head). I assumed that they would have checked the tires after I pointed it out the the salesperson.

    I think the only issue with the pieces of stone is they could have visually masked any other nails.

    As for the bad Carma (sic) thing, you never know....
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The pieces of stone could have "visually masked any other nails"

    ?????????

    The presense of a nail in a tire would not cause me or most people to look for other nails. I suppose that would have been a good idea but the chances of multiple nails is pretty slim unless the car was driven through a construction site or something.

    And, bobst...that was funny!
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    I guess my compaint is that I had specifically asked them to check out the tire as there was a nail pulled out. I suspect the inspection was that it did not go flat.

    As I think about it, it is *possible* that I picked up the nail my self, but it is unlikely as I tend to pick up 1 nail every 3-4 years, and I did not go anywhere near any spot where I would be likely to pickup the nail.

    I am not really angry at the dealership over the nail; nails happen. And they may have just forgotten to inspect the tire. At least Forester's come with full size spares.

    My main question was if my actions were reasonable, and you and Terry agree that they were reasonable. As I said, I am trying to maintain a good relationship with the dealer. I chose the dealer based on factors other than price.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    happened AFTER delivery?

    I have to address this, and I'm not dogging you, but it's ironically funny after spending a few years in the tire and service business..

    "it is unlikely as I tend to pick up 1 nail every 3-4 years, and I did not go anywhere near any spot where I would be likely to pickup the nail"

    A nail doesn't care how often you pick one up - it could have fallen off a construction truck, or from an SUV leaving Home Depot. You don't have have to be cruising construction sites to find a nail, it can happen anywhere. Heck, a few years back, I had a flat tire that was caused by a 6mm allen wrench (4" long).

    There were many times that after figuring out what caused a flat tire, people were personally offended that, and although a nail is an inanimate object with no hatred or prejudice, the nail would seek THEIR car out, as if following through with a mafia vendetta.

    So many people completely ruin the "new car experience" by getting upset over such minor things - we're almost to the point of bring CSIs into the investigation to see if the "dealership conspiracy" theory is accurate.

    Lighten up, enjoy your new car.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    Drift,

    If it was any tire other than the one I had asked them to check out, it would not bother me. There was a nail in it before delivery. I asked them to check out the tire. They apparently did not. Even so, it is just a tire! And the dealership does seem to be 'taking care of me'.

    I do not think I complained about the dealer too much. Maybe I did. My main purpose in posting here was to find out if my approach in dealing with the dealer was reasonable.

    Now, back to the RWTV flame war....
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Was the nail in a front tire or rear?

    My point is if rear, you probably drove over the nail lying on the road and it flipped up and was in position for the rear tire to bear down on it and push it in. Think where you might have driven near construction areas. Pickemuptrucks driven by workers often have loose stuff rolling out at end of the bed as they leave (or arrive).

    If in front tire, think back to when you followed a truck on a higher speed road; they often flip up stuff with their wide tire swath and I roll over it and it sticks in the front tires.

    I can often determine when or where I got the nail that way. I used to live in an area with lots of home and business construction. Picked up 4 nails in one year. Michelins never seemed to accept nails for me till I moved there.

    Other nails have been in front after trips where I stayed behind semis in right lane at comfortable speeds.

    Dealer _probably_ didn't overlook nail. Go enjoy your car. I'd keep the tire with two plugs on front mosts of time and buy new ones early. I've never liked plugs and patches. Repair guys usually check all of tread when repairing mine and check other tires on car while it's on the lift.

    Go enjoy your car. I'd keep the tire with two plugs on front mosts of time and buy new ones early. I've never liked plugs and patches.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Manamal, I still think you should go to the dealer on a busy Monday morning and ask them to remove all of the stone chips from the treads of your tires.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    I think that I will do that on a *non* rainy/foggy day. You see, with binoculars from I office, I could actually monitor there work; evect today, the visibility is not high enough.

    Seriously, though, I appreciate the comments and suggestions. Perhaps I did over react.....
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    And I appreciate your sense of humor, Manamal. It's kind of lacking in Liberals these days.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    You know, the humor is also absent in the ultra-right wing...
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Please. It has nothing to do with Questions for a Car Dealer.

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  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    But I was talking about the spoiler(wing) hanging off the right side of my car. It is not funny because it keeps chopping things on the sidewalks.
    Darn Ultra Right Wings on Cars.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Heck, a few years back, I had a flat tire that was caused by a 6mm allen wrench (4" long).

    That'll teach you not to drive through the tool corral at Home Depot again!!
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    boulevard (Hwy 6, S of I-10, in Bel Air, TX).
This discussion has been closed.