Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

volvomax

Yes it is my friend.
Maybe not like Aston or Bimmer, but we do attract high income people looking for luxury cars.
I would put our clientele's education and earning power up against anyones. They are just less impressed with labels for the sake of labels.

volvomax

Lincoln nicer?
Are you sure your in the biz?

volvomax

Isn't Volvo a Ford product now and has been for several years. They even are mimicing the parts in the "new" 500... or so they want people to believe.

Actually, the 500 has no Volvo parts at all.
Ford borrowed the bluprints for the S80 and then cut alot of the reinforcing material out, as well as the high strength and boron steels. Also, no Volvo engines or electrical systems are used.
As Ford's go its a better car than they are capable of producing on their own, but not up to our spec.

mazda6iguy

Just wondering in general if one were to pay for a car in cash, or check all at once at the dealer, would that person get a discount over someone who was financing a car?

frnkrzzo

im not a proponant of lieing over the phone. doesnt make any sense to me. i value my time as much as you value yours. i would never lie to anyone. my goal is soley to turn a profit, it is definately not to upset you. i think "mom" is getting angry. if i have offended you, i appologize. it was not my intent. i certainly have not taken offense to your comments.

paulhuang

I am wondering what the dealers here think will happen once GM's Total Value Pricing is rolled out. I understand a high MSRP and large rebate is very helpful in burying negative equity. If the MSRP moves lower and the rebates disappear, it seems that it would become more difficult to get people who are seriously upside-down financed.

Is GMAC rolling out some new lending tricks to go with Total Value Pricing?

jmonroe

Reply to 13310

frnkrzzo,

It was refreshing to read about your honesty of having no desire to change the image of the car business because it doesn't pay as much that way and I've long thought this was the case. I know what it is to provide for a family just like many other readers of this post. I'm also very glad that I was not in car sales where I might have had to be less than totally honest with people just so I could give my family what they deserved and needed in life along with some of the extra goody's too.

I know you don't want to hear this anymore but part of being a truly informed car buyer also means you have to understand this part of the business too.

Thanks again for your honesty.

jmonroe

frnkrzzo

yep. i'll go there. i believe lincoln would certainly be considered a luxury brand. perhaps not in your eyes, but that doesnt change to fact. i dont think lincoln sells anything that has a msrp under 30k. you certainly cant say the same thing about volvo. im not saying volvo is not a nice car. just not exactly my idea of "premium". i'll leave that for the mercedes, bmw, and lexus' of the world.

midwesttrader

Not usually. Don't forget that financing the purchase is part of the F&I (back room) profit margin for the dealer. They'll try to make that up elsewhere in the transaction if they can.

frnkrzzo

we have common ground. go figure. thank you for the comments.

mazda6iguy

I know of someone who hopes to pay cash for a car and then trade in her car and hope to come up with enough to pay for a new Chrysler PT Cruiser base model, all she needs is air conditioning, auto trans and cd. And somehow work in the current 'employee discount' promotion that is going on now. Problem is, all this person has in cash is around $8k. It is not me, the poster by the way...

jmonroe

Reply to 13312

kirstie,

I think I might be the guilty one here. I didn't think my post 13304 was too personal but I can understand if you thought that it was. Please don't shut this post down because of me. There are too many good things being discussed here for a newcomer like me to ruin it for everybody. If you feel I should cool-it for awhile just let me know.

Thanks for your understanding,

jmonroe

frnkrzzo

i can think of one instance where this would be true. if you have shady credit, your negociating standpoint is weak. if by cash you ment doing your own financing, i think you'd be negociating from a better position iff you already took care of the matter. if credit isnt an issue, no cash will not get you a better deal.

mazda6iguy

By the term "Cash", I meant ploping down the cash or check in the salesmans hands and driving off. Not cash as defined by having my own financing lined up. In my opinion I would think that having the cash ready to pay in full would give one an advantage over the person who is financing. The dealer has the cash in his hands ready to deposit at the bank and use right then. But I defer to the professionals...

qbrozen

but don't forget, if financing through a dealer, they make money in other ways, mainly a kick-back from the financing institution. So, if you are paying cash, they know right away that the profit on the car is the ONLY money they'll be seeing on the deal. So, really, I would think paying cash might result in a higher price on the vehicle (although you'd probably be paying less in the long run).

frnkrzzo

in that case, my answer is the same. having cash is better than crappy credit. most dealers would prefer you finance through them because its profitible. this is especially true of the traditional "buy here pay here" low end used car lots. i wouldn't tell anyone i intended to pay cash until everything else had been negociated. matter of fact, i'd probably say i would finance it and i have excellent credit.

typhon1991

There is no trick or gimmick. This is going to be a real problem over the next year or so probablly. On the flipside, one of the reasons domestic vehicles depreciate so much is because of big rebates. It is a double edged sword. YOu need them to help get rid of negative equity but they are what caused the negative equity in the first place. Hopefully if GM stick with its plan, resale value will increase and help eliminate a lot of the problems. They just need to stick with the plan and don't fall back on the old ways. It took us over 2 years to deviate people off of 0% financing
Mike

frnkrzzo

no trick or gimmick?.....tell me how there was no trick or gimmick to the so-called "employee pricing scam. you could have bought darn near any gm model for less before that promotion started than after. one helluva marketing campaign though, ill give ya that. *whew* anyhow, i think rediculous financing methods are as much to blame for negetive equity as depreciation is, if not more so. i'll take a customer trading in his 2 year old pontiac aztec that he put tax down on and financed for 60 months or less over the guy who got his toyota matrix on a 63 month lease, for which he paid full ticket for and was told not to worry about the mileage on because he could trade it in whenever he wants. if the industry decides to do away with rebates, i think it will ultimately make all our lives easier. sign me up with your new pricing scam!

typhon1991

So how before this"pricing scam" could you buy a gm vehicle cheaper? You couldn't unless you had a franchise with GM except for the REBATES. You have got to settle down. We are talking about buying cars not saving the world from impending nuclear doom They are trying to eliminate the rebates and if GM Employee pricing is such a *scam* then why are most employees outraged that the pricing deal their unions fought for could be used by everyone. It is a good deal. . You obviously just don't understand how things work, if you think otherwise.

zuluwarrior

As to the paying cash versus financing.....MONEY IS MONEY.....The dealer
makes more money when you finance.....and actually, he can deposit that money same day as well.....although he really doesn't care because he doesn't pay for his car same day.......bottom line is even if he matches your rate at your bank, he gets what is called a "MINI", IE Minimum Commission from the bank, usually 250.00.....

Cash, don't get 250
Finance, get minimum of 250 and maybe more if you can jack rate up a bit......

Why do buyers insist on continually thinking "I GAWT CAAAAAAAASH"........
"DEALER WILL DEAAAAAAAALLLLL"

Cash ought to get you an automatic surcharge of the 250 the dealer lost......

May have meant something in the 1950s when dealers had to pay for
inventory nearly upfront.........but these days.......it's a silly and bizarre notion

rroyce10

.... **tell me how there was no trick or gimmick to the so-called "employee pricing scam** ...



Are you sure your in the car business ................?



Terry.

zuluwarrior

Trick and Gimmick is right.....the month before the EMPLOYEE Plan,
the Dallas dealers were advertising loaded Sierra crew cab 1/2 tons
for 22900.......after the employee pricing plan, it was 23605 for the
same exact unit with no negotation possible whatsoever!

Trailblazer the month before was list 28895 for 18488

Month after it was employee plan, 25803, minus a 2500 rebate, making it
23303......here's the stinker! GM was giving the dealers 4750.00 cap cost
reduction, making it around 18K again, but ONLY if you did a Smart Buy
at 9.9 percent interest!!!!!! and there was a 90 day minimum clause in that
contract to qualify for the 4750 and they also had a stringent beacon score
requirement......

SO: Month before the Trailblazer was 18 grand after incentives and finance
anywhere you want, month during the employee deal? get it for the
same exact price and finance with GMAC on a Smartbuy Lease ONLY and
at an inflated rate double what most people pay!

Gimmick, the hard numbers seem to suggest it
Trick, the hard numbers seem to suggest it......

If someone has some numbers to defy my logic, I'd love to see them......

BUT

My hat is off to GM!

To advertise cars for the exact same price and sometimes even higher
prices with weird finance requirements and have your sales increase
47 PERCENT??????????????

It speaks to American Stupidity in a way that truly leaves
me in awe........

As to GM reducing prices on 50 models for 06, by an average of 1800.00????

BIG DAMNED DEAL!

You reduce the price 1800 and reduce the incentives by 1800
It's like doubling the price of jewelry during XMas to have a 50 off sale!

In the end, people pretty much know what a given vehicle
is really worth, and they generally jump when the prices meet that
level of perceived value....

Me?

I'm waiting for the trailblazer incentives to kick back to pre employee discount
days and then I'll finance it with Chase for 4.99 for 72 months!!!!!

No trick? No Gimmick?
Check your newspaper ads pre employee days at the library
and prove me wrong......

mikefm58

Agree with you, but want to add that for the average "uninformed" car buyer, GM employee pricing made it a much easier process, almost Carmax-like.

jcat707

Are you saying that before the Employee pricing, the deals were better? If so, I completely agree at least for employers of the Big 3. I say this because rebates were reduced when the employee pricing was introduced. For example, in April, a GM employee could have gotten a $32,000 Trailblazer with a $4,000 rebate. So their price would have included both the normal employee discount plus another $4000 off which may amounted to about $24,000. Now in July, that same Trailblazer only has a $2500 rebate. So now the truck costs $1,500 more. While the employee pricing wars may be great for the general public, it's not so great for the actual employees of the Big 3.

plalinde

my son's 2002 VW Gti turbo was damaged in a rain storm and we had to get a new engine. He is leaving to college and i want to sell the car. Is the value less than what the blue book price is? Or the same or greater...

zuluwarrior

That's like me asking you what the computer
I'm typing this on is worth.

Bluebook means nothing! The people who
write bluebooks have never written a check
for a car like yours and they never will.

The very asking of "Is it above/below or the same as bluebook"
illustrates that fact.

If bluebook was worth anything, or any value guide for that matter,
then your only question would be "what is book value on my car,
because that "IS" what it is worth!!!!"

If the book was right, it would be no more no less.....no questions asked....

So what's it really worth?

Check tradeonline for ads on similar units and then deduct some
for those people being dumb enough to believe book values too........
Check ebay and then deduct some for 75 percent of ebay auctions
ending with no sale....also check past ebay auctions for similar cars......
Evaluate condition/needs etc......

After evaluating all these items, go with your gut instinct of what YOU
would pay for that car buying it today.....not buying it when you did........
realize that a buyer will hit it lower than you every time, because
he wants to save his dollars whereas you want to take his dollars.....

Two lines shall cross....the line at which you're willing to sell
and another line of which someone is willing to pay.......where those
two intersect is the "REAL BOOK" price......and it is certainly
not an exact science because those lines will change with each buyer.....

charko2

Have a 03 Bonneville 18K miles financed with 0% down & 0% interest. Car got keyed cost to repair will be 1200, with a 500 comprensive Since the Bonnevile are dead should I fix or trade in now? Car is under waranty for another 40K miles with gm?

capitano

Looks like jimbolo doesn't understand the rules. Is that greenpea soup I smell in the kitchen?

mikefm58

Check his last few posts. He posted that ad all over Edmunds fora......LOL

bdr127

No, all else being equal, you can't get a better deal by paying cash as opposed to financing..... Don't confuse the idea of financing a car with using a credit card at a store. When you use a credit card, the store has to pay the credit card company a small surcharge. Therefore, sometimes stores will offer a cheaper cash price (like gas stations, for example). However, dealers do not pay a surcharge to have you finance..... the opposite is true, in fact.

qbrozen

So its going to cost you $700 to fix the scratch .... $0 to keep the car with the scratch ... or ummmmm... i dunno, let's say $4K negative equity to trade it in .... decisions, decisions, huh?

frnkrzzo

ok. the day gm went to "employee pricing" (june 1), they slashed their rebates across the board to the point where if you had bought a pickup truck the day before they went to "employee pricing", negociated your deal well and took full rebates, you would have paid less than the following day. for that matter, if you were a real gm employee and had bought a car the day before this scam, you would have got the employee price minus the full rebates they were doing. that same real gm employee would have been a fool to buy his car/truck after the nationwide employee pricing started because he would be paying substantially more than he would have before. does that spell it out for you terry? i assume you work at a gm store? argue with me if you want, but try to avoid the personnal comments, huh?

frnkrzzo

you, sir, have hit the proverbial nail on the head. glad someone was paying attention.

charlotte7

Yeah, that makes sense--I have, fortunately, wonderful credit so the rate benefit wouldn't help me out especially.

What you're basically saying is that "certified" doesn't really mean anything in terms of the quality or condition of the used car, though--since the determining factor is how much the dealership paid for the car originally. That is not how dealerships market the "certified" idea, though I guess I shouldn't find this surprising.

Kirstie_H

We have also seen the same trend in our GM pricing discussions. Members have read through posts from earlier in the year, and are noticing that buyers were reporting better OTD deals than they are now with the employee pricing plan. The result? Some of the members have used this information to negotiate better deals than employee pricing.

Let's do make sure we don't start with personal comments. I hate having to delete a whole, long post because of one inappropriate personal comment. Thanks.

geo9

Actually pay LESS than the general public.....................

How, Why???????????

Gm employee/retiree/family members DO NOT pay DOC fees or Advertising
fees..................

Also GM/GM card/GM Family first/GMAC etc. sends out many mailings thruout the year with addl. discounts for certian models, repeat buyers, lease or smart buy specials etc.....................

A informed GM employee has NO problems with the discount programs to the general public and wants to keep the assembly line moving............................

frnkrzzo

big difference between the truth and what is marketed. it's not a bad program as long as you can financially benefit from it. if it doesn't do you any good, there is no reason to fool with it.

gallileo

> you, sir, have hit the proverbial nail on the head. glad someone was paying attention.[/i]

Actually, I don't think so.
People who think the employee discount for everyone (EDFE) was a gimmick because it didn't give everyone the absolute lowest price are missing the point.

The value is not in getting the *best possible* deal. The value comes from knowing, in advance, that you will be getting a very good deal. And that the deal will be gotten with a minimum of muss and fuss. That you won't have to worry that if you had just held out another half-an-hour, that you would have gotten another $500 off, or that if you had been a better negotiator, you could have gotten some other benefit.

Could they have done slightly better? Yes, but the work required to get the best deal was suddenly dramatically higher than what it took to get a very good deal. Unlike before, where the amount of work required to get a great deal was reasonably close to the amount of work required to get the best deal.

The value for the thousands of people who took the EDFE deal was in the dramatically reduced uncertainty for them as average to poor negotiators. I absolutely agree that there was no value to the EDFE program for the very savvy consumers you find here on Edmunds, but savvy consumers do not make up the bulk of the buying public.

isellhondas

Are you more concerned over how much profit the dealer might be making than the value of the car to you?

The price either represents a good value or it doesn't. If you feel comfortable, buy the car and don't worry about the diamond ring he probably won't be buying.

thenebean

before kirstie puts the discussion under "read only" i suggest all those folks who are making personal attacks stop! i personally enjoy this forum, and i dont want to see it spoiled for all of us by a select few

...steps off soap box

-thene

butchbr73

"before kirstie puts the discussion under "read only" i suggest all those folks who are making personal attacks stop! i personally enjoy this forum, and i dont want to see it spoiled for all of us by a select few "

....amen to that. There are a number of folks here that enjoy reading, discussion and learning about different topics. There are also a few folks that are in the business and give great advice on these different topics. And then there are a select few that may need to be "terminated" from Edmunds.

.....Kristie, may I suggest before making any rash decisions, to try penalizing individuals first instead of everyone by making this forum "read only".

..... my 2 cents.....

Kirstie_H

personal comments have been deleted. Again. And folks, PLEASE do not respond to offensive posts. They will be removed by a host in due time. Posting a response means I have to delete the offensive post AND the response(s).

If you should suddenly find that your posting privileges in this discussion have been revoked, you will know that it's because you made a post following this one that contains even the slightest hint of a personal attack. If you're not sure, don't post it.

isellhondas

Just IGNORE the people who drop the offensive posts.

It's hard sometimes...believe me, I know...but when these people get ignored they ALWAYS go away!

OK. any questions?

BTW, I know I'm lucky. Ten years ago, I left a high powered, high pressure corporate position. I refused a move to Chicago and was forced to find another way to feed my family.

I wandered into a well run, family owned store. I planned to stay six months and I'm still here. Same owner, same GM, same GSM, same UCM etc.

Most of my sales are to repeat and referrals and I've never, once, made less in a month than I did in my former position.

Last month, we sold over 400 cars and this month will be even better!

charko2

First it will cost me 1200 to fix the scratch as I have a 500 deductable. Second since the Bonneville was discontinued, does it still pay to hold on to it or would the trade in diminish (forget the scratch for a moment) because it is no longer being made? I have 18K miles on it now

qbrozen

oh, i thought you meant $1200 minus the $500 deductible. WoW! they must have done some number on it to come up with $1700 of just scratches.

hmmm.. would it pay to hold on to it? Well, do you NOT like the car? It only has 18K miles. You owe a heap of money on it. You'll definitely get killed on the trade-in at this point since you put $0 down. SO, if the car is good for you, I say just keep driving it. Whoever you trade it to will still have to fix it, so they are going to deduct that from the trade value anyway. Essentially, that means you are paying for that paintjob one way or another.

It seems like you are asking if the value is going to get worse or better since its a discontinued model? That I can't answer. But my gut tells me ... its a Bonneville, not a limited-run Ferrari. The fact that its no longer produced isn't going to matter one iota. Either now or in 5 years, its still just a used Pontiac.

isellhondas

Pay the deductable, fix the scratch and drive the car.

If you DON'T fix the scratch, every time you see it it will tick you off. Life is short...get it fixed.

Besides, you are DEEPLY buried in this car. You will lose THOUSANDS if you get rid of it. It's a new car with 18,000 miles on it!

Keeping it is the only smart thing to do.

zodiac2004

The value is not in getting the *best possible* deal. The value comes from knowing, in advance, that you will be getting a very good deal. And that the deal will be gotten with a minimum of muss and fuss. That you won't have to worry that if you had just held out another half-an-hour, that you would have gotten another $500 off, or that if you had been a better negotiator, you could have gotten some other benefit.


All hogwash
GM has done the same thing before.
How's EDFE any different from Saturn's one-price pricing policy.

typhon1991

Actually GM has never done this before. The deal with Saturn is you pay what is on the sticker. This is you pay the GMS price on the invoice which is approx 5% under invoice. Big difference, I know this is going to raise a big uproar in here but the dealer, specifically the salesmen are getting the short end of the stick with this pricing. Salespeople get paid a percentage of the profit called a commision. When we sell under the GM employee pricing GM reimburses the dealer a percentage of the vehicle cost (not nearly as much as a retail sale) for doing the delivery. Sales people get a flat amount of money from the store usually around $100 per car sold. Do the math, you would have to sell 30 cars in a month to make $3000. Thats a lot of cars with little payoff. The stores aren't complaining that much because it is generating business and bringing in trades and lowering floorplan expenses. I know of alot of stores that have lost salespeople with this promotion because they couldn't make it. Remember rebates are from GM not the dealer. To sit here and listen to people complain about what a scam it is is frustrating. It is a tremendous deal and everyone knows they are getting a good price. All the manufacturer is trying to do get people into the showrooms who haven't been here in years and see that our quality and styling is greatly improved from 10 years ago.

bobst

"get people into the showrooms who haven't been here in years and see that our quality and styling is greatly improved from 10 years ago"

Typhon, every time I get behind a Malibu I am very aware how much GM styling has improved (or regressed) over the years.

typhon1991

Yeah bobst but remember you and a lot of the posters here aren't like a majority of the population. By the way, I went to Chevrolet training on the new 06 Impala. A lot of people are going to be very impressed. Styling, quality, room are outstanding. Keep your eyes out. They are starting to show up at dealerships now.