Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
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'Please initial here that you are declining the VSA, GAP, or whatever' It shows that it was at least offered. There may be some CYA legal ramifications as well.
bobst: I'm sure people buying a car don't mind signing something saying that they are not get the extra stuff they don't want. The F&I manager probably doesn't have to "force" someone too hard to sign that form, just as they don't have to "force" them too hard to sign the bill of sale or loan contract.
If the F&I person asks me to "Please initial here that you are declining the VSA, GAP", I would be happy to do it. That is pretty much how it was when we bought a car in March.
However, if the F&I person said that I HAVE to initial the form, I would refuse to do it. I am hyper-sensitive about someone trying to control me.
British_Rover:
Sure there's lots of gizmo's in those cars but two hours ? After test drive, negotiations, and F&I another two hours for delivery would make me climb the wall.
I suggest that you ask your customer if they want to have the short delivery or if they want the extended delivery. Two hours is way too long.
I think I could delivery a NASA moon lander or a nuclear reactor in two hours.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
(As a matter of fact on my next car purchass whenever the F&I guy asks me if I want an option, I'll just always reply with "can I sign the waiver instead???")
I took advantage of a coolant-change special, and when I went to fetch my vehicle, I popped the hood. I saw grease smudges on the hood and a drop of red fluid on the plastic bumper - not good signs considering my rig was pretty clean when it went in. When I looked under the hood at the fluid reservoir, I saw the coolant level was below the low mark. I went back inside, told the service writer, and a couple minutes later a tech came out lugging a gallon of coolant, and sloppily brought the level up to midway between low and high, splashing coolant around. He seemed like an OK guy, trying to make nice with me (which I appreciated), and he told me that previously he thought the coolant would burp back to the proper level. Guess he didn't bother to check it when he was done. Plus he'd replaced my brakes. Uh oh. But they seem fine.
This is the first time I used this svc dept, which is the most convenient one to my workplace, plus they provide a shuttle. I'd like to use them again.
So rather than get the tech ticked, and risk getting bad vibes next time I take my vehicle in (after reading the recent posts, I figure this is a possibility), I'll just 86 the survey if it comes in the mail, and hope for the best next time.
I'm not really helping the dealer manage his business by handling a survey this way, but I don't want to hurt the little guy. Even calling and talking to the service mgr (which the dlr's follow-up letter suggests, if I can't give a Completely Satisfied survey) could cause problems for the tech. So mum's the word, I guess.
Good point, bobst.
I'm not sure why I stuck around as long as I did. Part of it, I think, was simple disbelief on my part that some dealerships still go in for this stuff. I thought that this type of hard sell had gone the way of leisure suits & gold chains. It's been over 20 years since I last encountered this. But we keep our cars for a long time, so I'm probably wrong about this.
To be honest, I began to sense that I was annoying him as much as he was annoying me, & that gave me some pleasure. At one point, I got a rise out of him by telling him that extended warranties are for people who can't handle money & don't have a grip on their finances. Build up your savings & pay down your debt, I told him, & you can handle even expensive repairs without breaking a financial sweat. (I firmly believe that, BTW.) That got under his skin. "I've talked to 10,000 people", he said, " & you're the 1st person who's said that to me." He was clearly flustered.
It was an odd way to spend a Saturday morning.
The usual. Front brake pads needing replacement every 20K, first two AC fan speeds not working, intake manifold leaking. The above three have been epidemic with the previous generation Malibu. I am 100% positive GM knew about these before the production started, and yet made it the owners' problem.
The unusual. Front bushings squeak while low-speed braking (loud enough to be heard by passers-by, quite embarassing!). I've had THREE dealerships "fix it." The squeak returned the same day. Now, how hard is it to fix or replace the bushings? Uh-oh, shame!
The very unusual. After the fourth dealership replaced a glove box which was broken into, I've started hearing a rattle in the dash which none of the dealerships could fix. Though they certainly did take my money to look for it
The deadly unusual. The car's engine would just stop without a warning while the car's in motion. NHTSA had a memo about it - had something to do with the ignition cylinder. Extremely unsafe - the car would lose engine power, power steering, and power brakes all at once. Miraculously avoided several accidents. You'd think a recall would be in order. But don't hold your breath
Then, I had an accident, which was totally my fault (hit a curb). The dealer said it would cost 2.5K to fix the control arm and get a new wheel. I thought about it, and said forget it. Thus, a six year old car found its way to the junk yard. Not a bad car from the point of comfort and engine power. But it was the dealerships' atrocious service which "sealed the deal."
And how many stories like that have we heard? And now Delphi workers are crying that their wages are about to go from 25 an hour to 10 an hour. I wonder why
The market economy works. The survival of the fittest. The survival of the customer-oriented
1) The scoring system is cut and dried. perfect or zero.
2) Usually for each question or group there is a comment section. In this you can express whatever you want and this is the way to get the best 'reaction' from the local dealership.
Example:
You mark the survey 5's, 4's and a 3. The result is an abysmal mark for the service dept. Nothing else no explanation nothing. The GM chews out the Service Mgr and the Service writer loses money.
or, and this takes a little more effort, but it's worthwhile for you.
You are unhappy with something(s). You call the Service Mgr or Sales Mgr if it's a Sales matter and express your concern. Tell them that you are aware of how important the surveys are to them. ( They are critical !!! ). You want the issue(s) resolved now. If you are satisfied with the response, when the survey comes to you mark it all excellent ( 5 ) but in the area for comments put whatever you want. Joe Tech was a slob; the service writer did the best possible to anwser my concerns; the vehicle was not cleaned properly on delivery; the sales person didnt go over the features with me - just threw the keys to me on the way to take care of another up.
This personalized effort gets results and shows the GM that you understand how the system works and are a customer to be treated as a 'friend' in the future. Nothing is easier than being a friend of the GM or the owner.
If you hated something enough to trash the dealership or service dept consider filling it out with the 5's, 4's etc but mail it to the GM at the dealership. who knows you might get free service for a year or some perk for NOT trashing them. It cant hurt.
> The salesman was friendly & professional, & it took us no more than 15 or 20 minutes to agree on a price. He wrote up the order, I signed it & he charged a deposit to my credit card.
> But then my salesman told me that I would before I could leave, I would have to sit down with Bob in F&I.
> What would've happened if I had simply refused to see Bob?
Last summer I refused to meet with the F&I guy. Told my salesman (SM) I wouldn't waste my time. SM said I HAD to meet F&I, that he would bring him back to the cubicle since I wasn't moving.
By the time SM and F&I returned I was crossing the dealership parking lot which caused SM to sprint after me. I told him to call me so we could arrange delivery.
I had the new car delivered to my office the following day, I signed the necessary papers after inspecting the car and paper work, switched plates, paid check, and SM drove off with my trade. F&I unnecessary.
With a prior car, SM called me to accept my earlier offer. I explained (okay, I fibbed
(
No F&I necessary. Just say No!
Ford Fool
When it came time for F&I last time I bought a Toyota, it took all of 15 minutes, and that was when I was financing through them -- zero pct, see.
He asked me to sign a document stating I had been offered extended warranties. After hearing about customers who demand to get stuff fixed free out of warranty from my friends here at Edmunds, I had no problem signing that piece of paper work.
He pushed a little on the warranty, but not too bad. He didn't offer any mop&glow, and he didn't try to sell me credit life or even gap, since I was putting plenty of money down.
At some point, it's simple courtesy to just go and get it done the way a place of business normally operates. I don't want to be the guy who needs special treatment everywhere.
Now if they start jerking me around, that's a different story, but that hasn't happened to me yet. And as a grownup, I think I should be able to handle it.
Strangely, both times I bought new at a GM store, I was not asked to speak with Mr. F&I. I paid cash, and they wanted nothing to do with a weirdo like that...
-Mathias
The dealers don't have much say about the packages that come from the Port in the SET .... the dealers order bulk inventory and you can't "delete" certain packages - thats the way they come ... now, I didn't say I agree .. I said that's the flea's that come with the dog ..
Terry.
Terry.
While I do agree with extended professional courtesy to all those you work with. There is a distinct difference between being offered products or services from an F&I manager, you may or may not be interested in, and being viewed as a profit center. Some people, maybe fordfool has had very bad experiences in the past, which predicated this type of action.
Figured I'd share this story since it's fresh in my mind. Just yesterday, I was in a local Mazda dealership, looking at a 3, 5-door. They had about four 2005 left overs on the lot. I stated what I was interested in. had a salesman, very nice but could barely write my information down on a worksheet. Took a test drive, and then the manager came to speak to us. He looked at both the wife and I, offered coffee, etc. Asked what we did for a living, took a look at her E-ring and promptly offered zero discount and stated, they're flying off the lots.....HUH :confuse: Do I look like I just feel off the turn-up truck???
On the drive home, the wife stated, you know I'm starting to agree with you, aside from test driving a car, the salesman & manager show offers no value. We should only be at the dealership for a test drive and to pick up a car, everything else should be done over the phone. She asked me why it is so easy to negotiate at a Lexus, BMW, and Audi dealership. We've never paid MSRP or close, always get treated good, never pressured, never been offered scotch guard and under coating, and never have mysterious charges to dispute on the paperwork. The deals always are clearly laid out, itemized, and match with basic loan calculators.
Then she stated she felt bad for the "older" couple that just agreed to a deal the next booth over getting charged MSRP....
Now I know every dealership is operates differently, but the profiling and side show Bob tactics really need to go the way of the dinosaur....
I'm polite and have trouble buying a commuter vehicle
PS. Enjoy your posts on prices paid!!!
They paid cash for the Range Rover, with a personal check out of courtsey to them, so no loan papers to sign no Gap offered nothing. There was no real negotiation since he was a buddy of the owner and neither of them ever came into the dealership it was all over the phone. They were just too busy to come down prior to delivery for any reason. The paperwork took 15 to 20 minutes and that was including registration since we are online with the DMV.
It is not like they were already burned out from the car buying process this was the first time they had been at our centre.
What I mean is I would deal from the invoice up allowing a profit for the dealer. Would I be able to then apply the rebate? That wouldn't cut into the dealers profit since it's from the manufacturer would it?
Thanks
Anthony
Always keep that in mind .. being treated "differently" makes ALL the difference in the world ...
So let me also share this story since it's also fresh in my mind and "also" Just yesterday ...
I've been looking for golf travel bags for our clubs for the last couple days ... mine is kinda beat and my g/f doesn't have one and we will be taking 3/4 golf trips in the next 6/7 months, so they need to be nice ones and good quality ....
So when I finally zeroed down my search to these particular 3 models, I stopped by this "particular" large family run golf store and they have 2 on my list - great.! ~ besides that, I'm told they're having a 25% off "store wide" sale til' Sunday .. even better.! so I'm done shopping ...... so when I pick the 2 out, they carry them over to the register, they ring them up and the price is $149 higher ..... now, I may not be the quickest person when it comes to numbers, but I think I'm being overcharged on this deal ..
So I ask (with my shoes and socks off and counting on my fingers and toes) .. well, based the retail figure and minus the 25% it should come to $XXX - right.? ... aaahh no.! .. these bags are the special "how ya doin'" meteorite proof anti-glare, bulletproof, waterproof up to 2,500 ft and fireproof up to 3,700 degree's Fahrenhight ..... great, but we ain't golfing in Baghdad or anyplace close to any Volcanoes and we kinda gave up the thought of dropping our golf clubs into the Mariana Trench -- "I love all the sales pitch guys, but they don't make such a bag" - yet.! ... besides all that nonsense, where's 25% discount..??
Finally, Mom (the owner) says: "the best we can do is 20% off" ..... I walked her over to the 22 boxes of un-opened, dust covered travel bags and said: "you better start giving these boxes some family names, cuz' your going to have them longer than your son" ......
40 minutes later ... I bought the better set at Dicks Sporting Goods (of all places) and saved $188 off Moms "best deal" ..... thats why I always say, Every store for every product is different.
Terry :P
But, if you obsess over dealer profit, then you will be miserable. If you want to buy a car with a fair profit, and factor that in, you need all kinds of variables that you don't have.
Exactly. Of the last 3 vehicles I've bought, all F&I guys offered me the same stuff, which I politely but firmly declined, and all they asked me to do was initial a piece of paper that says I was offered but declined.
But a buddy of mine did have the Toyota F&I guy get down right angry that he didn't want the ext. warranty. He laughed in his face and told him to move on.
Nissans offer is cap cost 15336 with a residual of 8672.55, 209 a month for 36 months, I think that makes the money factor .0019745 or 4.739 percent. Not a bad deal, but I know that in a regular deal I can get the car for about a thousand less, but don't know if the other rates would apply then.
Thanks
1. Negotiate the price of the car without considering the rebate. Just makes sure the salesperson and SM know the prices you are offering DO NOT include the rebate. Once a price is agree on, deduct the rebate from it. This is harder to do because you have to be constantly calculating the net cost in your head. So I recommend....
2. Negotiate the "out the door" price. Forget about the rebate amount or the dealer's profit or the doc fees. Just focus on what will the car cost you, bottom line. This puts the pressure on the dealer to work the numbers to meet your price. How they work in the rebate or a doc fee is up to them. You just sit there and drink their free coffee or soda and let them sweat it. All you've got to do is focus on one number while they juggle several.
The finance company sets the residual amount so that is not negotiable.
The residual will change with the terms of the lease (longer lease term or more miles/year). All those numbers should be readily available as the dealer has no influence over them.
The money factor itself *might* be negotiable if you know the dealer is marking up the MF from what the finance company is offering. Ask Car Man for the MF on the particular car you want to lease and you can go from there.
I agree that from time to time there are certain PORT PACKAGES that are "suggested" but those are few and far between and the dealer can turn down any vehicle they do not want.
Yep, I know I need to negotiate the price just the same. I was just referring to the Subsidized lease. I have heard that sometimes an inflated residual and/or unusually low money factor is used to give really nice deals and that there may not be much room to bargain on price as the MF or something else would change. Are you saying the residual should only change with months and miles and should be the same as the residual shown the the Nissan ad I referenced?
I would love to know the MF. I tried to deal with Nissan Finance as they are who my current lease is through, but they said they do not deal directly for buyouts or new leases and that I had to go to the dealer.
What is a good MF in general, I heard it should correspond to current new car APR's, but I thought it should be lower.
Which forum should I try to contact Car_man on? I haven't been able to reach him yet and I'm going to try and go to the dealer today.
Thanks so much! I just need to be informed so I can get this done properly.
As noted, I'm sure there is a contract or agreement in place between Toyota and SET. Toyota just can't tell SET "you're out of the picture". There's probably a buy out clause as well but I wouldn't be suprised that SET has no intention of selling out. They are a huge company - 15th largest private company in the US and have over $8 billion in sales. I doubt Toyota could even buy them out.
A question for dealers. If you get an email stating: Hi, my name is Joe, I want such-and-such car. I know your invoice is 20,500, and I am willing to pay 20,800 out of the door price, and that is my final offer. Would you, as a dealer, still try to negotiate, or you would accept the offer right away, if you like it, or reject it, if you don't like it? If you reject the offer, would you say in the reply: thank you for your offer, Joe, but I can't let go of this car for less than 21,000?
uncle...uncle.....
Agreed 100%, now if I can only find, instead of get, the Dick's of car dealerships.
Dear Joe,
We truly appreciate you giving us an opportunity to earn your business and becoming part of our very satisfied sales and service family .. but right now, we can't accommodate that particular offer ... that said, we're not that far away in price .. being the intelligent buyer you obviously are, I'm sure you can find a figure that could make us both feel comfortable.
Your friend and mine,
Terry.
Dear Terry, thank you for your reply. Would you be so kind and indicate what kind of an offer you are willing to accomodate? Thank you, Joe
Basically, yes, the residual should be the same, all things being equal. If the lease price was based on, say, 36mos and 36000 miles on a particular model (say, Maxima SE), then that residual should apply to all Maxima SE's. Now, if you want a Maxima GLE, the residual might change a little but probably not too much.
Keep in mind the residual is the percentage of the MSRP. As you know, the lower your purchase price, the lower the lease payment because the residual amount does not change.
I would love to know the MF. I tried to deal with Nissan Finance as they are who my current lease is through, but they said they do not deal directly for buyouts or new leases and that I had to go to the dealer.
Car Man can definitely tell you what NMAC's MF is on a particular model. If he is missing your posts, click on his screen name and send him an email.
One question to ask the dealer is what finance company are they using for leases. Most dealers are going to use the captive finance company (NMAC, GMAC, etc) because that's where the best deals are. But there are plenty of finance companies in the leasing biz, although not as many since the 1990s when leasing was box office business.
I don't know what a good general MF would be because there are so many factors involved, unlike a loan where the interest rate is mostly dependent on your credit rating and whatever promo the finance company is offering. You can use a new car loan number to have something to play with, but any dealer should tell you the residual and MF on any particular model. Everytime I've leased the dealers gave me a copy of the finance company's residual chart, showing all the models with the corresponding MF's.
Your offer sounds very resonable when is a good time for you to come in to drive your new car home .
Thank You
Rob
any help will do.
Jack
thanks
Jack
Thanks
Jack
If it is a retailer installed option and they either don't have the part they need or it is on back order and they can't get it then take delivery of the car and make sure they give you a we owe about the option. You can just get a signed we owe and then bring the car back later to install the option.
I had that happen recently we sold an LR3 to a couple that wanted a wood kit put in and it turns out our last wood kit was damaged some how. We just gave them a we owe so that as soon as we get another wood kit we will call them and they can then have it put in.
If it is a factory option they told you was in the car and now it is not then if the car is already registered then you are kind of screwed. That was very dishonest of them though to lie to you about the factory options on the car.