Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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I became increasing alarmed after reading several different entries in various forums here as well as other websites regarding things to check for on the Purchase Order Form/making a deposit and making sure specifications were stipulated . This has been a very educational process but sometimes challenging when it comes to all the things to keep in mind when buying. Sorry I paniced.....
It's just that going into the deal with such an anxiety attack mode going, you're sure to leave the deal with a bad taste in your mouth - something may go wrong, be it a scratch, and attitude, or a non-full tank of fuel - things that wouldn't normally be a big deal suddenly are when you go into the place with your phazers set on kill..
I doubt if there is anything to worry about here.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Even if there's absolutely nothing wrong with the deal, giving yourself some time to review paperwork is a sound financial decision.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Bingo.!
Just like my Great Grand Daddy used to say: .. a little information is dangerous, and too much is not enough ..
Take your time, read all the stuff, then make a decision ......
Thanks for stopping by ....
Terry.
Next thing you know, we'll be debating reverse auctions and why it's not prudent to do a 200 dealer blast fax for a vehicle that would have to be ordered, anyway...
...wakes up in a cold sweat...
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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By the way, don't buy their lie that they must have your credit info because of the Patriot Act.
SORRY FOR THE CROSS POST.
I was having surgery that week, so it was another 3 weeks before we could get to the dealership. We arrived early one morning, test drove the vehicle, traded in our old 4WD GMC, paid cash for the balance and were quite happy as we drove off the lot.
Less than 2 months later, we had our first big snow. That is when we discovered that we were not driving a 4WD SUV. We actually got stuck in the snow for the first time in my life.
We are now very unhappy with this whole transaction.. We feel as if we were intentionally deceived regarding this vehicle. At this point the dealership is saying they have no oweness in this error, but if we want to bring the vehicle back and trade it in for a 2005 4WD, we are more than welcome. We of course would take a big loss on the vehicle from or original purchase price.
If anyone has any suggestions on how we can handle this, it would be appreciated.
Thanks.
And...when you took delivery, didn't the salesperson go over the operation and controls of the vehicle with you?
I guess I'm just puzzled too why you didn't notice the 4WD controls weren't there?
Under the circumstances it would be nice if that dealer could give you an extra amount for your trade in. I would hate to think they did this on purpose. Depending on where you live a 2WD SUV can be very hard to sell.
Good Luck!
Terry.
#2: Yes, the salesperson when over the controls. The SanteFe 4X4 is actually an "AWD" (the same as our Audi) and the only button in the vehicle says "Traction Control", which is the same button for either a 2WD or 4WD. There are no controls in the Santa Fe AWD to switch to 4WD like in our old GMC.
Yes, I feel like an idiot that I didn't catch this sooner. I was so specific with the sales person, we assumed we were getting what we agreed to on the phone.
An honest dealer could see there was an error in negotiations and help you trade at low/no profit to salesperson/dealer. And you've said nothing to indicate a dishonest dealer or that you're trying to get AWD when you didn't bargain for it in the deal.
How many miles are on the car now? IF it's not too many, the dealer might be able to resell it as a lightly used car. Having had a couple of major surgeries I understand how tense things can be before the date when you're trying to get loose ends tied up. Perhaps the dealer and salesman will understand too.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would call your salesperson and REMIND him of your conversations. Only trouble I see is the amount of time that passed before your discovery.
It would be different if you had noticed this the next day. I would ask to speak with the GM of that store.
Unfortunately for you that looks like thats the dealer's out as the FWD abbreviation is typically referenced as front wheel drive.
Good luck to you- Let us know what happens.
What I wonder is if FWD in the sales slip represents an ambiguous contract. Since the dealer is the drafter of the contract, is it possible to use legal means to void the contract and to return this SUV?
Any lawyers out there? Drift?
See, you can still impress your neighbors.
However, I would not use that approach if you are trying to sell it to a big fella named Bubba.
The biggest issue is that you'll hardly get a lawyer to touch the situation, since it's not blatant fraud (even if intentional), the consumer has responsibilities to ensure that the product they want is the product they're buying, and the most you're out is the difference between 2WD and 4WD, which is about $2k....then again, they didn't charge them for a 4x4 and sell them a 2WD vehicle...
There's actually no monetary damage at all.
At least on an F-250, you'd look for that lowrange lever (they still have those?).
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And, most people have no clue how a car works.. They just know that they go in 4WD, and don't go in 2WD.. The Sante Fe and the CR-V have a system that engages the AWD automatically... No input required from the driver, and no instrumentation that even lets the driver know about it.
I can definitely see how many people wouldn't know one way or the other, unless someone else told them..
regards,
kyfdx
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I recently started discussions with a Toyota dealer, in which I indicated that I had done my homework, and knew the numbers, and wanted to put together a deal based on his cost plus a fair profit...
The sales guy made a big deal about how he had gotten special permission to show me the numbers, as long as I understood he needed to make a 'fair' profit, and showed me invoice, plus options, plus advertising cost, plus finance reserve, plus gas cost, plus holdback. All the numbers matched what I found on Edmunds.com. So he added all the numbers up and announced, 'and this is our invoice'.
I looked at his numbers, and when I pointed out that the holdback was a credit, not a cost, and it should be subtracted, not added, he stammered that in 3 years this is how it was always done ... he also threw in that holdback was part of the invoice. Clever that Toyota's invoice is an 'invoice', but since he created the title on 'invoice' for his number, he can just use the word 'invoice' without being specific as to which invoice he was referring.
Anyhow, when I was browsing the 4Runner 'prices paid' board, I notices a couple of people included the printouts from their dealer. If you pull out a calculator and add them, it seems this practice of taking the Toyota invoice, and adding holdback a second time is not just something done by my dealer, but is a more widespread practice to convince a customer he got something for $ 200 over invoice, when he actually paid $ 1,500 over cost.
As stated, the holdback forum jumped on the subject of 'cost is none of the consumer's business', and 'holdback is not profit'.
Is anyone willing to discuss if this is a trick or a scam?
Art
"Figures never lie, but liars always figure."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Run to another Toyota dealer. There are tons of good ones around as noted in the Prices Paid discussion.
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From the last two Toyotas I bought the sales guy said after we agreed on a price, "you're getting the vehicle for close to invoice but we should still meet our sales figures so we'll have the hold back coming in."
So my understanding is that hold back is "money given from the manfuacturer to the dealer if certain sales numbers are met". How can that be a cost? It's profit. But if a dealer knows they're going to meet their sales numbers they may be willing to negotiate that.
Let's compare two vehicles, same model, same options, etc, and same holdback amounts. One comes in on a factory order, is picked up the very next day, and motors down the road. The $600 holdback is still in the air somewhere.
The other car came in last year, but hasn't sold because it's not a popular color. It's been on the lot for 10 months. The holdback, the money offered by the manufacturer to offset flooring costs, ran out 6 months ago on this unit. The dealer has been paying interest on the car for 6 months, which is now MORE than the holdback was.
Comparing these two cars on a P&L statement, the dealer is actually in the red, since the older unit has cost enough money to not only eat up its own holdback, but the holdback on the car that just hit the ground as well.
Before anyone thinks they're entitled to money just because you're aware of it, make sure you know what you're talking about.
I believe the question on the table is not whether or not holdback should be taken into consideration, but whether or not this "invoice" the Toyota salesman is holding shows the invoice number BEFORE holdback or AFTER? Because what the salesman is saying is "here is the invoice without holdback and now you have to add in this holdback number to get the true total invoice price." I think maybe, to avoid the typical bickering and back and forth that surrounds this topic, we could JUST address THAT particular question and avoid the topic as to if it should be included in the deal or not. just a suggestion.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S