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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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Just pay MSRP for everything and your wish wish become reality!
Here is your "set price" do you want it or not?
Saturn sold cars that way until their products became less than competitive!
Some manufacturers don't care how their vehicles are sold or how the dealerships run things but for other manufacturers it's a big deal. To work at Lexus for example you need to have the product knowledge and score perfectly on the new owner's surveys that customers get after buying a vehicle because customer service is important.
Honda Canada has a program called Q Award (Quality) where the dealers that excell in customer satisfaction, sales numbers, surveys, service, get recognized and get the award as well as money for advertising, bigger allocations of cars, specialty models, etc.
To work at our dealership you not only need to produce but also excell in customer satisfaction and get good survey scores.
We had a guy a year ago that got hired (came from a domestic dealership) that sold cars the old fashioned way: high pressure, arguing with customers, unkept promises. He sold about 15 cars in two weeks (which is a lot) but got fired because of his agressive attitude and because he brought so much heat onto the dealership. :mad:
For some dealerships it's not just about the numbers.
Find a dealership and salesperson that is recommended by friends or family, this way your whole car shopping experince will be much more pleasant.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I hate to tell you this Chuck .. but dealers from Seattle to Miami have tried "one price" shopping for 15 years -- and the vast majority have lost "big" money doing it because their sales dropped by 30%+ ... Saturn is a perfect example, GM hasn't made a dime on that little fiasco for 10 years.
**most unpleasant experiences they have.** ....... it seems like "you've" had a bad buying experience, because 97% of the market has had a very good experience .... I guess it's ok for you to pay a real estate agent $15,000 to sell you a $300,000 house, but it's not ok for a dealer to make $1,200 on a $30,000 vehicle ....
But if we could do it your way .. we could have all homes at $150,000, we could have all golf clubs at $49 and we could have all the restaurants at Mcdonald prices .... we also could wake up from that dream ..l.o.l...
Terry :P
But, for many, all they care about is price. They will grind for hours, run hither and yon as they frantically pit one dealer against the other, scared to death they may pay "too much".
Then, they come here and complain about "tricks" or the way they were treated. Or they moan about what a "painful process" buying a car is.
But, I like to see, feel and test drive a vehicle before I buy it. I couldn't see myself ordering a vehicle sight unseen.
But making a profit on a product without doing something inherently underhanded doesn't qualify, and this topic isn't really about how much profit is too much.
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Well, you still could do it in manufacturer's run centers, like say Dell's kiosks at malls.
I wonder why most dealers here respond the way they do any time an idea of making some changes floats up. Look at this insignificant forum - any time somebody mentions even a possibility of doing away with "traditional" dealeships, we have a massive attack with any possible weapon: sometimes just kind explanation, but much more often sarcasm, ridicule with usual portion of twisting the proposed/stated idea to discredit it instanteneusly, e.g.
Q: "How about fixed price for everyone?"
A:"Oh, it's already is there, it is called MSRP",
Q: "How about disclosing all your "prep" fees before the deal or in your weekly ad?"
A: "Oh, you mean you don't want to pay tax and destination?",
Q: "How about not putting junk Toyoguard package on vehicles by SET and posing it as a part of manufacturer's package on Monroney sticker?",
A: "Oh please, I need to feed my kids, too.", etc.
I have a strong suspicion (I know, Terry, I am probably a very suspicious guy) that the system must be serving them the way it is now much better than they claim. Not that there is anything wrong with that (making more money than you actually like to admit), but we surely don't have to take all that "customer wants it so that's why we do it the way we do" at the face value.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I would love a system where it's a one price, MSRP sale.
But, then people wouldn't be happy.
I agree, I HATE the deceptive ads, but still, people reward those stores by giving them their business.
Of course, we have no control over taxes and destination charges.
It really doesn't have to be hard. There are a lot of stores that do use "tricks". They use them because they work. Too bad...
The one price factory concept might work if all the cars sold by a mfg had people begging to buy them...but those are the rare exceptions. Even the hot cars get soft after a few years. Most cars are sold not bought. Big difference.
The friction between buyers and sellers will continue until the business model changes. Since the beginning of dealer franchises, there have been only one place to buy a new car, from the dealer franchise itself. Consumers cannot buy direct from the mfr. They cannot buy from a non-franchise dealer. They cannot buy from an online supplier.
If I want a new HP computer, I can buy from a local independent computer store, a national mass market discounter, a retail specialist, an online supplier or a members-only warehouse club. All these "dealers" are separate and independent from one another.
If I want a new Ford Fusion, I can buy from a franchised Ford dealer or........ a franchised Ford dealer. There are many "pipelines" I can travel on (Autobytel, Sams Club, Costco, credit unions, etc) but they all lead to the same place. Most states have very very restrictive dealer franchise laws developed to protect new car dealers from anyone else attempting to encroach on their business model. Either do business the way they demand or be prevent by law from doing business at all.
The system is the way it is. Accept it or not, it aint changing anytime soon. The smartest thing for buyers to do is to learn how the system works and find a way to make it work for you.
EDIT: I believe the Ford corporate-run dealer experiment happened in Indiana (metro Indianapolis). What I'd like to know is why the experiment failed. How did Dearborn support and promote the corportate stores vs. the franchises. Were state laws amended or new ones passed to make life more difficult for the corporate stores, or easier for the franchises? I'll bet its an interesting story.
You know Terry...I think your a nice guy (doing the "trade in" on the other forum.) but I am skeptical that 97 out of 100 people have a "positive experience" when they buy a car. After all, isn't the whole process (negotiating) making it so one is a adversary? The salesmen is supposed to be your friend---but I have personally seen when a person (usually elderly) really likes their salesperson and then proceeds to be taken to the cleaners!
And BTW....real estate commissions are now between 1 1/2 to 3% where I live(So-Cal) due to the sky-rocketing real estate prices.
I may not know exactly what I want when I approach a dealers lot, but I certainly don't want to be sold. That makes for unhappy customers later, they may not view that sales experience with pleasure...Buying and driving a car that was SOLD to them rather than one they chose doesn't make for repeat customers, and loyality.
Just my humble opinion, and I have bought WAY more than my share of vehicles in my "30something" years of driving.
That's what all this is about.... control. Let start calling it what it is.
No one can force you to buy a car, but it is the salesman's job to convince you to buy from him today. The problems begin when customers don't realize that, are not paying attention, or decide they want to fight the salesperson for control.
If you want to buy.... buy! If you want to shop, fine. Those who don't know what they want or what they're doing are gonna get themselves into trouble.
I've brought this up before.... but how can you be SOLD if you don't want to buy? If you don't want to buy or are uncomfortable with the situation, just leave. Nobody is forcing you to be SOLD.
As someone else said, it's the salesperson's job to convince you why you should buy their car. If they do a good job, then they didn't necessarily take advantage of you or make you "SOLD" on the car, but they may have brought things to your attention you had no idea about. If you like what they've shown you, then it is your (and only your) decision to BUY.
Yep, you hit the nail on the head with that one! It's all about control.... and the existing dealer network is the way we are controlled. Someone above said it best; this shark infested system isn't going anywhere soon. You need to learn how to "control" the situation so you won't be taken to the cleaners......
I have said enough.
Maybe I should write a book...lol
so much knowledge to share.....so little time....lol
***disclaimer= I think bobst makes perfect sense with what he thinks and believes so please consider that when I am passing down my words of wisdom***
C'mon Chuck, lets quit the drama classes ..l.o.l.. what control.? .. with all of the info sources that are out there and you sit there with a straight face and print that ..?
Obviously you have some sort of chip on your shoulder .. no matter what people purchase, they have options -- they can agree on a price or not .. they can decide to purchase or not .. they can decide on any vehicle they like or go home and wait for next years model ~ or not ... can we spell the word responsibility..?
You forget I have family and friends out there from San Clemente to Bodega Bay and Realtors can be as high as 7%+ in certain markets, I just had friends that sold property in Pear Blossom and you couldn't get a realtor out there to touch that deal for less than 10% -- and thats nothing but desert .... didn't they make the movie Lawrence of Arabia there..? ..l.o.l.....
Terry.
Is that just the buyer or seller half of the commission? Or is that the whole thing? Buyer, seller, and agencies?
Does that really have to do with prices or a competitive market? I think the latter. When I was selling my house, there are "new wave" realtors around that advertise how they will sell your house for less. I've easily got a dozen different companies I can call and have them compete for my business. Very similar to car dealers. Someone is always willing to undercut the other guy.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If they (your Realtor) sells it "inhouse" it's 1 1/2%. If it's sold outside by another broker...it's 3%!
It's prices. The prevailing school of thought (out here) by anybody with "half-a-brain" is "Why should I pay double (the commission) that of ten years ago" for a service that is not substantially harder than it was 10 years ago". You could make an argument it's easier to find buyers with the Internet, etc!
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Actually there is NO SALE until the buyer sees the value of turning over his/her money for whatever the product or service is.
Value means different things for different people. For some it might be buying at a price lower than any human has ever bought before and for others it might be being treated with kindness and respect. Both are correct.
A potential buyer arrives and says 'I know exactly what I want and it's this. Dont speak to me again until you come back with a yes or no'.
A college student and her mother came in last Saturday, fell in love with a 5 spd vehicle, but she couldnt drive a manual. So I taught her during the test drives ( 45 min ) she left with it and she and her mother couldnt say enough good things about the whole experience.
For others like engineers and military officers the one common thread I hear all the time is 'Give me all the data. I can make my own decisions.' Done properly this is highly effective also.
They aren't 'tricks' but differing approaches to three separate individuals with three different values and all of which have to be met for there to be any sale.
So-how much did you make on the deal? My sense is a female student and her Mom may have not been the most informed buyers, sensing that; you knew you were going to make money on the deal-you decided to throw in the driving lessons.
Am I right or wrong?
Did I tell ya about the $10K engagement ring I found last week in a client's trade. His wife lost it before he brought it in. As a long shot he asked me to search the vehicle. It was in the runner under the driver's seat. He will be back for sure next Jan for a company truck. It might be an easy sell..
A $10 grand engagement ring and no reward .....??
.. not even 2 free Fish Filets at Mcdonalds...???
I bet you'll never see that pikester again..!
Terry.
The car he brought had equipment that I did not want (spoiler) and was not the proper color. I asked him about ordering from the factory (not swapping) and he said that I would have to give him a $1000 deposit and had to take the car.
I then asked him for some figures. He leaves and goes to see his manager who then calls me over. He enters some figures into his computer and tells me that he will lease me the car at absolutely NO PROFIT! He also states that I had to do this by 5:00 or the deal would go away. He also said that there were no 36 month leases from Subaru and would have to go for a 39 month lease and that I would be able to return the car after 36 months to him, without having to worry about the remaining payments. I kept telling him that I wasn't interested in that type of deal and besides his figures were off. The residual was too low and the money factor was also off. He said that thats what it was and I had to do it today. I thanked him and left as fast as I could.
I then went to the dealer I had gotten my previous Subarus from (Nitti) and got a 36 month lease, with the proper money factor and residual value. The price was $20/month less and the whole thing took maybe 10 minutes. What a difference!
Sorry to be so long winded, but I wanted to let people know to stay away from Freehold Subaru. Their tactics are from the dark ages.
Phil :mad:
of course, i believe, maybe a $100 bill would have been an appropriate "thank you" if he was jazzed to get the ring back, but...a reward shouldn't be an expectation for doing the right thing.
i do believe in what goes around, comes around.
Really?
Why in the world would anyone want to work at a Scion dealership?
Not to be too cynical,but since you are new to the business...
" Don't count the be-backs, count the green-backs"
Glad it worked out for you but I do have a question.
Why didn't you just go back to your original dealer in the first place?
Terry.
Basically they took the weak Echo at 50K units or less and turned it into the xA and xB and gave the young buyer his/her own showroom as a separate part of a Toyota dealership... music and video's and computers all aimed at the 22 y.o. Each dealership had to 'buy the right to market Scions' from Toyota and buy the mini showroom complex from 'yota as well.
The idea is that the entire process can be done from a buyers dorm room (specs to financing).. emailed to a dealership.. with a pickup date specified. The prices throughout the country are 'pure prices' not a dollar more or less. The financing details are also listed on the website. A buyer only has to find his FICO score, find the corresponding rate, and plug it into the loan calculator. The vehicle are all stripped and loaded at the same time. The only real factory option available is S+C A/B. Everything else is an accessory which each store can add ( or not ) at the buyers request. The potential visitors to the Scion experience cannot be pressured in any way to buy. 'Here's the info, when you're ready come on back'.
e.g. xB has std.. ABS, VSC, Trac, Pioneer sound, Pwr W/L/M
5 spd man or auto. That's it nothing more or less - unless the buyer wants it.
The tC though is the driving force in the brand. It replaced the Celica which was a longtime 'yota nameplate with a big following. The Celica in it's last year was a typical 'yota vehicle with 2-3% HB and 1800-2000 markup @ abt $22K w/Auto. The Auto tC is ~$17350 with more features and a bigger engine + the Scion experience.
There is almost no markup to the dealership and every deal is a mini to the 'registered Scion' sales person ( order taker?). However if a good-sized store does 50-70 vehicles a month with two 'registered' people then those two will make decent money. 22 y.o. in the six figures with a no pressure atmosphere.
What if... all Toyota's... hmmm
Green?
..well, terry, after 6 yrs and being #2 in the dealership since the 3rd month .. dont jump to conclusions. You know what they say happens when you '[non-permissible content removed] U me'.
I've turned down S/M and F+I Mgr several times from yr 2 onward. I prefer my own schedule. At 4000-5000 units it's hardly a mom and pop store.
Take it slow before embarrassing yourself more Terry. You aren't the only one with some knowledge.
was posted around here a while back.
The honda elements avg. age was 44.7
The Pontiac Vibes avg. age was 30.2
Hmmmmmmmm............... :confuse:
Everyone, I mean EVERYONE, knows that the new 44.7 is 34.7 years old and the new 30.2 is 20.2!!! Please try to stay up with the times! :P
Mark
the 'buyer' is often the parent... the decision maker is the driver. BTW how many 50+ y.o. do you see in an xB 'toaster'?
One unique feature of this is that a 'buyer' with absolutely NO credit history can buy a Scion under a new program with TFS with normal interest rates with no cosigner and 10% down ... it's not the normal FTB penalty rates. A lot of people arent aware of this .. or.. the parent has such good credit that they prefer to go on the loan as cosigner to guarantee the lowest rate. 730 Beacon guarantees the lowest rate.
The current system leaves a lot to be desired, vehicles are commodities and should be treated as such, kudos to Toyota for sneaking in this concept with the Scion brand.
Good question. I guess I just wanted to see what the other dealer was offering.
I learned that the grass is not always greener.......
Phil
Ah...no thanks!