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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

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Comments

  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "This is one of the biggest myths... There is absolutely no incentive for a dealer to do a cash deal. In fact, they won't make as much as if someone financed/leased."

    Gee...that's kinda funny. I have paid cash for all my cars and when I am in that "little room" and open my check book and fill in the dealer's name, and say, "all we have to agree on is the price" I have the salesperson and his managers jumping all over the place! The one thing they still like to do is run a credit check, and since I have great credit I don't mind them doing so.
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    Gee...that's kinda funny. I have paid cash for all my cars and when I am in that "little room" and open my check book and fill in the dealer's name, and say, "all we have to agree on is the price" I have the salesperson and his managers jumping all over the place! The one thing they still like to do is run a credit check, and since I have great credit I don't mind them doing so.

    Of course because the salesperson is excited to sell a car, the sales manager, is excited on selling the car, and hoping his F/I guy will switch you to financing.

    To me, a car deal is a car deal. It all adds up. As for Manamal, his salesperson was a fool, obvious he did not even present those numbers to his salesmangers, he just saw "Mini" and did not want to deal with it. If a customer brings me a price in writing from another dealer and its a feasable deal (car in stock ect....) we match it, I love taking deals from across town, they did all the work and all we have to do is find a car and match the price. And so what if it is a mini? In those instances you really are not doing that much work.The customer knows what he wants, he just wants a price and to get out of there ASAP to enjoy his/her new ride. A MINI can add up to livelong Mini's from his or hers family and friends. A MINI is a credit card bill, and electric bill, ect ect....I will never make enough money to be too rich to take a mini.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    I would agree with that michaell. I have a cousin's best friend and brother in law who are general manager and salesmanager of a couple different dealerships. My parents and brother have bought several vehicles from them. Which while good deals, weren't as good as one of us who frequent these forums or does a lot of research could have gotten.

    The G.M at a Toyota dealeship was going to give me 2% over cost on a Sienna back in July 2004(when they were a hot item)Which was a very good deal at the time. But, he was gonna lay $489 in dealers fees on me. Which made it go from a good deal...to just a so so deal. So, the term "good deal" is a extremely subjective phrase depending on ones viewpoit.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "So, the term "good deal" is a extremely subjective phrase depending on ones viewpoint.:

    I disagree, it's not a good deal if you buy a car at a certain price, then let the F&I guy "do his thing" and you end up paying for in the end. If you look at my previous post, where I traded in an Explorer for a 4Runner, they tried to use my EXCELLENT CREDIT AGAINST ME, by low-balling my trade and asking me if I would "consider payments" for the difference. I could say something additional and run the risk of my post being deleted, so I will just stop here!
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    Actually, I bought from the dealer across the street (the one in Tysons Corner that is family owned and sells VW's too). The internet price was comparable to FITZMALL. I would rather give them the business, as I *know* I am getting my service there (at least while I work for the large Gov't Contractor across the street...that may change if we have our IPO).
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Well, a "good deal" IS subjective. Every person decides what the vehicle is worth to him/her, and for some, that price may be higher than for others, and also depends on the vehicle.

    An oft-used example is paying MSRP for, say, a Mercury Villager vs. a Honda Odyssey. One's definitely not a good deal, and the other probably is.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    I dunno, Pat. I might my modify my trademarked "Bobst method" or I might keep doing things the same way, even if it costs me a bunch of money.

    If we always knew what we are going to do tomorrow, life wouldn't be much fun, would it?
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    Manamal, I am not trying to burst your bubble, but I will use your story as an example for others.

    About a month ago I was shopping for a new 06 Subaru Impreza for my father in law. I went to the Subaru website and emailed six dealers. The dealer that you bought your car from, Stoleman, came back with the lowest quote, $200 lower than FOTZMALL. We went to Stoleman to buy the car, but it had 120 miles on the clock and my father in law wanted a fresh one, so we left. After that, we went to the dealer in Herndon with the printed copy of Stoleman’s quote. The Herndon dealer sold us a fresh car for $200 less than Stolman’s quote, which was $400 less than their original email quote and $600 under invoice including all the junk fees (not including TTL). Which reminds me, how can they sell a car $600 under invoice and stay in business? According to Edmunds and CR new car report at that time, there were no incentives of any type.

    I guess the moral of the story is, email quote is not always the lowest price the car can be sold for, and no method is fool proof (not even Bob’s). The only negative about this experience was that some low life dealer sold my email address and name to spammers.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I never got people who want fresh odometer. They usually coincide with the ones who would like to take an unattended 50-mile test drive at the same time in a car with exact transmission, engine and matching interior ;) .

    I honestly could not care less how many miles it has as long as it is not beyond say several test drives. Hard to say where the border line is. I admit that 150 miles would be already a bit high, but may be OK for me, as long as the car is "rare" enough and the deal is good. I might actually use it as a leverage, "pretending" to not wanting it for that reason ;) .

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • kscctsksccts Member Posts: 140
    Excellent post...my feelings exactly!!! ;)
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    On certain models at least for Audi and VW, we get bulletins that say that the PDI drive needs to be at least 40 minutes, so there goes about 40 miles there, plus a good test drive should be at least 5 miles, so 150+ miles happen quick.

    As for your deal, did you finance or did you pay cash? Did you purchase any other product? Sometimes in the intrest of getting a car gone, dealers will take a loss, especially models that have been on the floor awhile,to save all that floorplan money. Dealers do act in mysterious ways sometimes...........
  • 151ranch151ranch Member Posts: 109
    Well, after watching the salespeople drive the manual transmission cars I was test driving, I will always get a "fresh" one. And yes, I will only drive a car with the matching engine/transmission/interior. How else will I know the "fit" of the vehicle? But maybe you are talking about domestics, which have 1,543,267 different ways to configure the car but I can only buy what's on the lot? Yeah, yeah I'm picky - but hey, I also realize I am not going to be paying $600 under invoice for a car that has to be shipped from 3 states away. I've paid $1000 EXTRA on my last two cars to get a manual in the right color.

    Half the time I go to a dealer it goes something like this:

    "I would like to test drive X, with a manual transmission"

    "What colors are you interested in?"

    "It doesn't matter, I just want to test drive"

    "Well, we only have a black with a manual, so are you sure you won't buy an automatic"

    "Can I test drive the black one?"

    Honestly, I think the salesmen are afraid to drive a stick!
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    The deal was cash with no extras or junk fees. Most email quotes were under invoice. The car my father-in-law ended up with had only 8 miles on the clock.
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    sometimes we are afraid to let customers drive stick shifts :P

    Many people do not realize, but we have get in to a car with complete strangers, sometimes at night and all we have is an insurance card and drivers license copy
    (which really means nothing mine has an adress that is 4 residences ago?) I mean we get drug screened, criminal history ran before we are hired, so we are little bit less threating. I have had situations where I held that handle and was ready to roll out of the car. Any Salespeople have similar experiences? What do some of your dealers do to protect the safety of the sales staff? :confuse:
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    "What do some of your dealers do to protect the safety of the sales staff?"

    Assuming you are a 'girl' from your id, I advise to not sleep with Tony Soprano types, then throw a roast at his head....

    You will need to have seen this episode of The Soprano's to understand...
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .. **Well, a "good deal" IS subjective. Every person decides what the vehicle is worth to him/her, and for some, that price may be higher than for others, and also depends on the vehicle** ...

    Kristie, you're absolutely correct ... a good deal is VERY subjective ...

    Case in point .. we were in Pinehurst for the last 7 days, and when you're playing golf you meet people from Boston, Kansas City, San Diego, etc etc ....

    One of the couples we played with had paid $1,800 for 4 days and 5 rounds of golf and the other folks we played with had paid $1,500 for 5 days and 6 rounds of golf ... and me and my g/f.? .. we paid $1,100 for 7 days and 7 rounds of golf ...

    Do you think anyone went home felling ripped off or felt they didn't get their money's worth ...? --- heck no.! .. they enjoyed the experience and everyone will be making plans to come back ...

    It's just like car sales, if you feel you got a good deal ~ then you did.!



    Terry. ;)
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    And how much time did your father spend shopping to save that $200? My time is precious....I am very busy. My deal was easy....mostly done over the phone. And I bought from the dealer that is most convient to my house and office.

    But, what I love about the internet is there is always someone who got a better deal.....

    How about a new BMW M5 at invoice? I bet someone will post that they got the deal (M5's are going for MSRP + 10K).

    I have my dignity, and that is what matters....
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I guess it's different from a woman's perspective than a man's but I've never in any way felt even the slightest sense of threat during a test drive. OTOH I grew up in NYC. Riding the subways in every part of the city at all hours of the day/night never bothered me in the least either. Nor did I feel threatened walking 100-150 blocks at 2AM from upper Manhattan to lower Manhattan in my 'dangerous youth' nor in the evenings of Paris or Rome or Florence when I was there on business.

    In these settings I think men dont get bothered as much as women, older folks or sightseers.

    OT anecdote:
    In 35 yrs of travelling and living in BIG cities the only time I was ever threatened was on a Sunday morning in Rome on the way to St Peters. I was surrounded by 4 gypsy women - and an infant - who demanded directions from me while they proceeded to pick my pockets. ( It was the infant :P ). But I grabbed the woman with the child, while calling for the Police and was just preparing to break her knee with a kick when suddenly my Passport and money appeared back on the ground. I continued to St. Peters.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... You might consider getting all of the info on the potential buyer - DL, credit report, etc, and letting them take the vehicle for a demo drive ....

    Terry
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    "...surrounded by 4 gypsy women-and an infant"

    Sounds like they were either trying to lull you into a false sense of security with the infant, or "role model" proper pick pocketing technique...much like tigers or cheetahs do when they take their young out on hunts.

    I think a punch to the throat would have been more than suffecient though in a case like that. As a kick to the knee may caused the gypsy to drop her infant. :sick:

    But, to answer bigdubveegirls question. If you, or anyone, is concerned with their saftey... I would recommend taking self defense classes. And if allowed by the dealership...carry a canister of pepper spray.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    Has any car salesperson ever been attacted? While I am sure the answer is yes, it suspect it is very rare. If you are nervous about the customer, why not let someone else work with them? Or, if your dealership allows it, send them out alone.

    In a similar vain, though, I am reminded when I test drove a Subaru Legacy GT which is a performance car. I wanted to test the performance a little, but I did not want to damage the car. What I did is asked the salesperson to warn me if I was going too fast for the curve.

    Now, when I was just out of school and looking at a sports car (which ended when I priced Insurance), and I looked at a Toyota Supra (1987). Half was through the test drive, the salesman told me that I drove like a wimp, and we wanted to show me what the car was capable of. He scared the crap out of me. I did not buy the car (instead, my parnts gave me a 2 yo civic they had).
  • prosaprosa Member Posts: 280
    You might consider getting all of the info on the potential buyer - DL, credit report, etc, and letting them take the vehicle for a demo drive

    Federal law would not allow the dealership to pull a credit report unless the customer is applying for financing.
  • sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    a good example of that is playing Shadow Creek (I didnt pay the green fee :) ) but I would have been happy to do so!
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,412
    I think I recall a story from not too long ago where one of the dealers in Queens had a car stolen when a test driver pulled a gun on the salesman so it does happen.

    At least once or twice a year I hear about robberies at gun point from garages in the city. In one, four or five high end cars were stolen.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... It's more common than you'd think ....

    Terry.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ..... Aaaah, that's kinda of a old wifes tale ... get them to sign and dated properly and there's no problem - cuz' if they like the vehicle they're going to sign one anyway ....

    Terry.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    You're kidding, right?

    That sounded like the mom who slaps her kid for hitting his brother. "BE NICE" .... hahahahahaha :P
  • mooseemoosee Member Posts: 22
    BRAVO, BRAVO, YOU GO GUY!
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Federal law would not allow the dealership to pull a credit report unless the customer is applying for financing.

    The customer doesn't need to be financing for the dealership to pull theie credit... All they need is the customer's signed approval.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    In the ten years I've been here we have had no problems. We are, however, in a pretty upscale area.

    We have no women salespeople now but we have had several in the past. No problems either.

    I have never felt uncomfortable during a test drive, but I do maintain control. I have asked people to slow down a few times and if I get a young guy, I will tell him..." I have two rules..you don't break the speed limit and you don't scare me".

    I have met some horrible drivers but I've been lucky so far. I keep a pretty tight leash, especially if I have concerns.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Moosee, it would BE NICE it you wrote posts that made sense.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    And that doesn't happen all that often!

    Do have a great Thanksgiving everyone!
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    I live in the City and have always sold cars in the burbs.

    Everyone must use common sense, Like I said I have no problem jumping out of the car if my life was in danger. In the metroplex there have been salespeople who were held up and the car taken from them. But you know what? That salesman did not even get a copy of their drivers license.

    Since I sell several performance cars in our line up and its a customer who just thinks he can hot rod, I let them know:

    "If you speed its your ticket not mine"
    "If you crash its your insurance not mine"
    "IF you break it you buy it"

    I did have a co-worker when I first started with VW, who had a client who he told several times to quit over revving the engine (it was a stick shift and was driving 80 mph in 3rd gear in a GTI) and the customer ignored him, and he finally told him to pull over to switch. Well the client reluctantly did so and said something rather rude in a language that he assumed my co-worker did not understand (and he did) and my co-work got in and left the customer there on the side of the road about 2miles from the store.
    Ouch! :surprise:
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    I know how your co-worker felt, I once told a customer to pull over or I'd bring him up on kidnapping charges; when he pulled over I told him to get into the back seat because he wasn't driving again...he threatened to leave without me and I said fine, I'll report the car stolen. He got in back and I drove him to the store where we told him his business wasn't needed.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Anyone seen this crazy testdrive? The guy just totally screws with the salesperson and is absolutely insane while driving a Mustang....

    Mustang Test Drive
  • 2k1olds2k1olds Member Posts: 98
    Why would a dealer need to run a credit check if you are paying cash? Great credit or not, it's none of their business how your credit is if you're paying cash. tell me you didn't let them do it.....?
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    if you bail at high speed, you are probably dead.
  • aghummerselleraghummerseller Member Posts: 2
    If someone writes a personal check, some dealers run credit so they can have it in case the check does not clear. Other dealers will wait for the check to clear before releasing the vehicle, it just depends on the dealer.

    And if you have great credit, a single inquiry without a loan soon therafter will lower your score maybe 4-5 points.

    I had a customer pull up in a Jag convertible to look at an H2. His first question was, "Will that drive like my Jag?" After I threw up in my mouth a little to keep from laughing in his face, I told him that no, it wouldn't at all drive anything close to something resembling a Jag convertible. He was determined to find out. So he throws the vehicle into low gear (automatic tranny) and gets the RPMS up to about 7000, at which point he complains about the road noise. I had to put the vehicle into drive for him. After taking a 90-degree turn at 55mph (no joke), he complains that there was a little too much body roll for him. So, ignoring my instructions that we need to stay around the speed limit, he gets this H2 up to 85mph on a residential street, then slams on the brakes, seriously standing on them, until we stopped. At that point I threw the vehicle into park and turned the truck off (in a pretty quick move I must say) before he could do anything. I drove us back and he threatened to call the police. I asked what he would call them for, and he mumbled something. Then he paid cash for the H2 at full MSRP, no haggling. It was the strangest experience I've ever had in the business.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... Anyone can write a check ...

    Plus, keep in mind that 75/85% of "cash buyers" are using the loan proceeds from their credit union, home equity loan, etc etc .... except for Mathias, very few "really" pay cash .. the dealer is just making sure you are "who" and "what" you say you are ....

    Would you take a personal check for $15/$35,000 from a stranger ...?



    Terry. :D
  • prosaprosa Member Posts: 280
    .... Anyone can write a check ...
    Plus, keep in mind that 75/85% of "cash buyers" are using the loan proceeds from their credit union, home equity loan, etc etc .... except for Mathias, very few "really" pay cash .. the dealer is just making sure you are "who" and "what" you say you are ....
    Would you take a personal check for $15/$35,000 from a stranger ...?


    I still don't quite see how this justifies the dealership's running a credit check. The fact that the "cash" buyer may be using proceeds from, for example, a home equity loan is totally irrelevant from the dealership's standpoint.
    If the buyer wants to pay by personal check, the dealership has two fairly easy options, neither of which would involve a credit check: 1) ask the buyer to get a cashier's check; or 2) require the buyer to wait until the check clears before he or she can pick up the car (there'll be a slight cost associated with the latter as the car won't be available for sale to others during the check-clearing wait).
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .. ** still don't quite see how this justifies the dealership's running a credit check...**

    The car business is the "now" business and most folks aren't going to sit around for the next 3/4 days waiting for their check to clear the bank, especially with that new ride sitting in front of them ...

    Put that aside for a moment, I understand that you might have good credit ... but the attorney sitting at the Benz store "might" not, the big home builder in the area might be 2 months behind in his 12 house payments, the Mayor of the City you just voted into office "might" be going through a divorce and 3 of his credit cards could have hit their limits and the "tilt" light is blinking away at the credit bureau ....

    Cashier's check, certified funds.? - bring it on ..... keep in mind, dealers see credit reports everyday and have heard every story in the book from, "I didn't know I was in a foreclosure .. too: "but that repo was paid off 5 months ago" ..

    Again .. would you take a $15,000/$35,000 check from a stranger ....?



    Terry :surprise:
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    We didn't pay cash for our Honda last March. I didn't have $20700 in my wallet.

    Instead, we gave then a piece of paper (i.e. a check) in exchange for their car.

    I told the sales person it would be fine to run a credit check on us if they wanted to. I thought it was only fair. Heck, if I was giving someone a new car in exchange for a piece of paper, I would want to know a little about them.

    So does anyone want to know about the extra keys they gave us? Please, anyone ... anyone?
  • chuckf1chuckf1 Member Posts: 19
    Okay, bobst, I'll bite. So what about those extra keys the dealership gave you? ;)
  • prosaprosa Member Posts: 280
    If I were selling a car, I wouldn't take a personal check in return for the car even if the buyer had an 800 FICO score. You want the car right away, give me certified funds, no matter how creditworthy you might be.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Exactly!

    If a person doesn't want their credit pulled, we will be happy to take a cashier's check. I think, in ten years I may have had two or three people do that.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    Exactly!

    "If a person doesn't want their credit pulled, we will be happy to take a cashier's check. I think, in ten years I may have had two or three people do that."

    I have made no secret of how I feel about SOME business practices by dealers. But I wrote a $15,000.00 personal check. If it were me, I would also run a credit check to make sure I could finance this person IF THE CHECKED BOUNCED! AS far as the FICO going doing 5 points, my FICO is at 750---who cares?
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Chuck, much as I would love to tell you about how we get extra keys when we buy a new car, I'm afraid the other members of this DG would threaten me if I told the whole story.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Don't the companies have a way of running a check through without having to wait. They know the money is subtracted from the account when they process the check; no need for a credit check.

    I doubt that my dealer here ran a credit check. We wrote checks from money markets each time we purchased. When I purchased long ago in Cincinnati, I suspect the dealer had run a credit check; they didn't seem to have any problem with a personal check. That was in 1977.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Terry, you've been in this business a long time and heard all the stories. But a lot of people, really, do pay cash. Especially high net worth people who don't have to have anything "now". (Please don't misinterpret "high net worth" for the kind of buyer who is into a used Bimmer.)

    Whenever I hear a sales person introduce time ("we need to get you to take delivery NOW") into a negotiation, I resent it. People who have to have something "now" either haven't thought much about it or are being slammed into it. If they weren't such payment buyers, they would realize that you don't spend 35K on a whim at 4:00 PM on a Saturday afternoon on the way home from Home Depot.

    If high end cash buyers use a personal or company check, they are not upset if the new vehicle stays at the dealer until the check clears. They've been around the block a couple of times and recognize how things work.

    Last December 29 was the last business day of the year, as I recall. I bought a new Cayenne at Porsche of Nashua, gave them a company check and told them I would call them after the holidays. I absolutely didn't want it "now". The long weekend gave them time to get the car prepped, to put on the invisible plastic mask on the nose, get the plates, etc. I came back the next week and drove it home. Great buying experience.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    Well, as the dealer you do have the key number recorded, don't you? I have known a few people who have lost their keys, gone back to the selling dealer and they have had this information filed. So I am not really surprised by what you are saying....
This discussion has been closed.