Lincoln Town Car

nvbanker

Too bad, beernut. Could have been a real fun ride for the kids! Especially when they were picked up from school.

limo

Since introducing the L version in 2000, (What we call a long door) Ford restricted the sale of Exec L cars to limo fleets with a FOMOCO fleet #, but would sell Cartier L all day long to anyone with the money. Cartier L is not available with the "535" package (Livery service), but the 535 package is standard on the Exec L and an option on the short door Exec through 2003. I don't know if the restriction still applies on the current Signature models with respect to selling long doors to the general public, but I suspect it may be. We have four Exec L in our fleet, ranging from a 2000 model to a 2003. Right now, I'm looking to replace my '95 Signature with 400K + on it, (it breaks my heart to have to turn it out to pasture!!) with a Cartier L 2000-2003. Gonna spoil my already spoiled clients even further. The '95 looks great and runs even better, but I feel like I'm tempting fate with it. Not getting rid of it, but I'll take the limousine plates off it and use it for a runabout. One of my clients, whose name you would all recognize, refers to it as the "Couch Car". He won't admit it to me, but has told his own drivers that it rides a WHOLE lot better than his BMW.

nvbanker

It's inconceivable how GM abandoned this market like they did. It's hard to believe they couldn't make money with a fully depreciated RWD platform, sold for fleet & livery service mainly. But maybe they weren't selling enough to cover costs.

beernut

This well known client of your's is my neighbor, Robert, isn't it? He calls my Cart the "Couch Car" every time he gets in it. How would the rest of you guys know him? I didn't think he was that cool.

limo

My client has a brother named Robert, and two others named Chris and Tim, and the whole gang is pretty cool, but their Dad was notoriously cool, what with his motorcycles and hot air balloons and the magazine with his name on it.

homerkc

What are recent (2000 - 2004) TC owners seeing in fuel mileage? My son drives a 94 GM that is good on the highway, thirsty around town. However, some say the newer cars are a little better. (I wonder, however, if any can compare to my '88 Crown Vic that delivered 20mpg in country/suburban, but very little urban driving. It was the best one I ever owned.)

nvbanker

18 town/25 highway

ehardison

I average about 20mpg in town and about 25 highway for my 2003 town car.

nvbanker

OH, so you're a lightfoot then!!!

ehardison

Probably so,I take it pretty easy on acceleration. It is probably the cool,clean air and good gas in Tenn.

beernut

That's a tough one, Limo, but we are keen to guess! Let's see... He's pretty cool and has his name on his magazine.... Now, I don't read many magazines but I'm pretty good with pictures. For ten points, is your client Mr. Hustler?

ehardison

Got to be Forbes.

beernut

That's huge! Even with 400k on it, imagine how much you could get for a car farted in by THE Mr. Forbes. You would donate all of the proceeds to charity though, wouldn't you, Limo? Sort of like Clapton's "Blackie" or Madonna's chastity belt?

ehardison

The hot air ballons and motorcycles were some of the toys that Malcolm Forbes was known for. Who knows,I guess lots of folks have moorcycles and balloons. Be interesting to know. I think Malcolm Forbes is dead,but not sure.

ehardison

Has every one sold their Lincoln and disappeared?
Haven't seen a post in aaaaaaawhile and just checking on you folks.

tulsahog

Air is cool until car starts to heat up then the air from the outlet is like it is from the heater and never cools off.

The air conditioning lines under the hood are cold and sweating like the A/C is operating, but seems the heater is on (not just outside air).

A/C worked ok last season and heater worked ok in winter.

Any ideas?

hotrodlincoln1

Sounds like a stuck or malfunctioning blend door. Not fun.

nvbanker

I agree. What year Town Car are talking about here?

tulsahog

Sorry, omitted info. It is a 1996 Town Car with 45,000 mi.

Battery went dead in winter. I replaced it and upon hooking up cables to new battery, there was a clicking sound coming from the dash area. It did sound a little like a small door opening and closing. No affect on the heater. Called dealer service and they said sounded like blend door and would be very expensive to fix-up to $700 because of labor.

The clicking stopped and when first turning on A/C this spring, got hot air only. The clicking has not returned. Thought it was a vacuum valve under the glovebox, but that seems to be working ok. It moves one direction when key is on, then opposite direction when car starts. Neither position changed hot air from A/C.

Thanks very much for help.

nvbanker

Well, could be a position motor that blew out with the battery change, or one that is stuck. Also could be your climate control brain. I would try one thing first. Disconnect your battery again for a few minutes and carefully hook up with everything turned off in the car, before you disconnect. It may reset and work. If not, you are going to need to get the checkbook out and deal with it. Good luck, and please keep us posted?

tulsahog

Looks you are on to something. I disconnected the battery for a few minutes. Upon turning on the A/C, the loud clicking sound behind the radio began again and the air conditioner was putting out cold air. Drove car for few minutes and at one time heard the air volume change and different noise from behind radio. The air was warm for a few seconds until more noise when the air was again very cold. The clicking continues but A/C working good. Resetting the computer provided cold air, but do you think there is a problem with the blend door or both? On another board, saw how you can check for diagnostic code in the climate control system. It was for an 88 Mark V. Said to push "off/auto/defrost" buttons at same time to display code. An 01 is blend door out of position. Did not try for this car. Do you know if this applies to 96 Town Car? Will try to get info from dealer tomorrow.

Thanks again for your help.

nvbanker

Not sure, but if a power down helped, I should think its more likely the brain. U could also have a blend door issue too.

soaringlincoln

I have a continuous heating problem with the EATC. This data trouble code indicates an intermittent A/C electronic blend door actuator failure. In order to replace the actuator, it seems necessary to remove the instrument panel... Any other solutions???

nvbanker

Those acuators are probably electric, not vacuum as the older systems were. If it has failed, it needs a new one, and you have to get to it to do that.....I know of no shortcut to the all day R & R of the dash...... sorry.

soaringlincoln

The procedure for entering self-diagnostics for your 96 TCshould be the same as for my 97 TC.
1) Simultaneously depress OFF and FLOOR buttons, then press AUTOMATIC button WITHIN two seconds. Display will show a pulse tracer going around the center of the display window for up to 30 seconds while test is running.
2) Self-diagnostics can be initiated at any time with the resulting DTCs being displayed. Normal system operation is stopped when system is in self-diagnostic mode.
DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES TABLE
code number
24, 25 (1) ELECTRONIC TEMPERATURE BLEND DOOR ACTUATOR
30 IN-VEHICLE TEMP SENSOR SHORT
31 IN-VEHICLE TEMP SENSOR OPEN
40, 42 (1) AMBIENT TEMP SENSOR SHORTED
41, 43 (1)AMBIENT TEMP SENSOR OPEN
50, 52 (1) SUNLOAD SENSOR SHORT4ED
115 (1) ENGINE COOLANT TEMP SENSOR
125 (1) VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR

(1) - INTERMITTENT FAULT

TO EXIT THE SELF-DIAGNOSTICS WHILE RETAINING DTCs IN MEMORY, DEPRESS BLUE BUTTON.

TO EXIT SELF-DIAGNOSTICS CLEARING DTCs, DEPRESS DEFROST BUTTON.

beernut

Never had a problem until you brought it up! My '88's A/C has started cycling back and forth between floor and dash whether set on manual or auto. Sometimes on manual in will finally stop cycling and stay on dash. Interestingly, the night before it started acting up I noticed a distinct smell of rubber buring for a while. I chalked it off to the area we were driving in but now I'm thinking a vacuum hose touched someting hot and burned through or fell off and is laying on a hot surface. Any thoughts?

hotrodlincoln1

The doors that control the airflow in our cars are vacuum controlled, unlike the newer ones. It's probably changing between floor and dash becuase the motors aren't getting enough vacuum to keep all the doors in the right places. You may be right about a burnt hose, but you might also want to check the motors themselves to see if one has a bad diaphragm.

If you can hear a vacuum leak anywhere, start with that.

tulsahog

Thank you very much for the directions for DTC's. I found codes 024 and 025 on the '96 TC. These codes are the dreaded electronic temp blend door actuator. Asked a dealer service dept how to access the codes and they pretended not to know what I was talking about. Said they charge $59.95 for troubleshooting. What a rip-off that would have been!

It pays to shop around. Have quotes from $360 to $650 to replace the actuator. Lowest is an independent garage. Got an estimate of $405 from one Lincoln dealer and $650 from another.

This board is great. Thanks again.

soaringlincoln

Am curious to know if you had your heating /A/C system repaired. Did replacing the Electronic blend door actuator module solve your problem?

tulsahog

Yes, the dealer replaced the blend door actuator and that solved the problem.

Many thanks to you soaringlincoln for the tip on accessing the diagnostics.

soaringlincoln

You are most welcome.

richandkay

Im looking at a 1994 Town Car with 150,000 miles
Its a one owner car with all the paper work for maintaince. Is there anything with this car that I should be aware of to worry about. I drive 200 highway miles a day and would like to get another 100,000 miles out of this car if I do buy it. Anyone have any help? Its being offered at $3500.00
Thanks
R

nvbanker

In my experience, the Town Car will do 150,000 with no problems. After that, it depends on history of the car. If this one has been well cared for, should be ok.

rcf8000

Is anyone aware of any changes coming up in the 2005 Town Car? Also, does anyone out there have any experience with the nav and THX stereo in the '04 Town Car? How about Sirius radio?

nvbanker

No significant changes for 05. I could give Bill some suggestions though. Like, a more powerful air conditioner, a DOHC version of the 4.6L engine, better seats with some lateral support. For those reasons, the Town Car is currently off my list. It is, however, a great car, and extremely reliable.

rcf8000

I guess the DOHC engine won't fit under the hood; I read that somewhere. A 6 speed transmission from the Jaguars would be nice.

nvbanker

It's that much bigger?-It fit in the Mark VIII, it fits in the Mustang. Odd it would be too tall for the Town Car.

nvbanker

and it fits in the Maurader - which is also a Panther, so I'm not buying that it won't fit in the Town Car. It's a conscious decision, evidently. Market research probably tells them the old codgers who like Town Cars (which would also be me) don't care about what engine it has in it. I'm sure some of them don't.

beernut

OK, so I'm a codger. I couldn't care less about either. Its certainly a personal thing - like all other car decisions - but smooth, stately, classy, quite, reliable ... all evoke thoughts of a Town Car. More power (cam profile) and more gears do nothing to enhance these things that TC buyers buy. Well OK, more power is the American Way and will always sell, but if you want a Jag 6 speed, buy a Jag.

I think all cars should do away with gears completely and have variable trannies. Now THAT'S smooth!

Hey, remember "ballcoolers"? ... the little A/C vent right under steering column? Boy, those were the days!

nvbanker

That was a GM thing, a facinating little vent. While we're on the topic though, my biggest, and practically only whine about the current Town Car is the anemic blower on the A/C. I think they designed it for limos, with the privacy window behind the driver, because it blows just enough air for a 2 seat car - yet makes plenty of noise.

I stand by my opinion though, that Lincolns should have the hot engines in them. Whether or not grandpa (and I am one...) cares about it or not.

hotrodlincoln1

I have a few thoughts on this:

FoMoCo is likely to make some attempt to increase performance in order to compete with DC's new products. They may make a more powerful engine standard across the board on all Panthers, or they may keep the pedestrian version of the 4.6 for (pauses to think of how to put this diplomatically) buyers uninterested in performance, and offer a more powerful engine as an option.

I think it would make sense to offer a handling package with a more powerful engine. Include stiffer shocks and springs, sportier wheels and tires, deeper gears, a more agressive trans calibration, and maybe a more agressive exhaust.

Come to think of it, I wish they offered that across the whole Panther line.

ehardison

I share NVBankers comments about the AC blower. I keep cool enough but the blower has to be turned up full blast when it is really hot. The 239 hp engine in my 2003 town car has plenty of power for me and is smooth and responsive. I can see a more powerful engine if you use it for towing or hauling boot leg whiskey,but hot rod fords are best for that.

nvbanker

And you know, I also agree the current Town Car Engine is responsive enough. It's not really the lack of power I notice - it's more just the idea that the engine is the Ford engine, with no enhancements. AT least put dual exhausts on the thing, and give it a 15 hp advantage over the Grand Marquis, but if I were Bill Ford, my best versions of my engines would go into the Lincolns standard, whether you need the hp or not. Just to give them a leg up on the rest of the line. That will dilute some of the "rebadged Ford" talk, and give me a reason to pony up more money. They have the engine already - drop it in already! Make it a hot rod Lincoln!

ehardison

Can't argue with that logic. I think the 4.6 is a good engine but like you say it is a ford engine used in many applications and doesn't produce the power of the 4.6 caddie engine. The 2003 and 04 towncars have dual exhausts which is why they produce 239 hp instead of the 210 for the 2002.The sound from the exhausts are quiet which indicates they are still restricted from maximum power.It would be great to have a lincoln only engine in the town car,but economics probaly will prevent that.

ehardison

I apologize for the multiple posts. For some reason my message just would not post and I resent it several times. Sorry for taking up web space.

pat

It's okay - we had some server trouble earlier and what happened to you happened to lots of folks. I'll delete the duplicates.

In case this should ever happen again, note that as long as you are logged in you can delete your own messages. The ability to edit a message expires after 30 minutes, but the ability to delete is always present.

There is something else everyone should realize - if you do a "Refresh" (or Reload or whatever your browser calls it) right after making a post, your message will repost. If you want to redisplay a page after making a post the best thing to do is use the "Recent Msgs" link on the page bar.

Hope this helps.

beernut

Up the HP and absolutely give me back the old glove-leather pillow seats, but leave the suspension and exhaust alone. TC's are all about an American smooth ride; and an engineered throaty exhaust tone would be cheesy (no, I never have been very diplomatic). Remember the discussion string from six months ago about those goofy chrome coffee cans sticking out of the backs of all those otherwise stock Civics? Same difference.

Regarding a HP boost, if there are performance minded TC buyers out there (how old are Baby-Boomers nowadays, anyway?), the magic number will be 300.

nvbanker

I'm not sure I'd call it "performance minded" Town Car buyers..... as much as it is "premium minded" buyers. Because, other than the looks, the current Town Car isn't as luxurious as some Grand Marquis models presently. Put a premium engine in it, and you'd have a reason to charge so much more for it. But again, the Town Car isn't really made for the public anymore - the car is made for fleets. And fleets don't care.

hotrodlincoln1

but I'm not quite with you on the exhaust. I'm well aware that there are a lot of buyers who like it quiet (Dad comes to mind), so I agree that the standard exhaust should be quiet. However, I also know that there is a certain portion of the population whose opinion of a vehicle can change dramatically for the better when they hear a deep rumble from the exhaust. I think an optional "performance" exhaust system might attract more younger buyers and assist with a continuing interest in the model.

Back to the leather: I went to an auto show a few months ago and took a good look at the Panther offerings. The leather was hard and just didn't seem very luxurious. I don't know what Lincoln leather was like a long time ago, but my father has had a series of Cadillacs from the 1980 through 91 model years. The 80 had MUCH nicer leather than his 89 and 91 models.

For the record, I still prefer cloth.

nvbanker

Well, I can tell ya, the leather in my Navigator is soft and plush, so I don't know what gives in the Town Car either.

Back in 2000, they made a Touring Edition, that had twice pipes (with nice exhaust note) and about 25 more hp as a result, special wheels and some trim differences. But it didn't sell well, and I think that gave Lincoln the impression that "Dad" didn't give a flip about performance in the Townie, so why bother. And frankly, they are probably right! I'm no doubt, the exception. But for me the LS is too small. It has all the performance I want, in too small a package.