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High End Luxury Cars



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    So in other words BMW is just that, the Ultimate Driving Machine then. The fact is that there is no other brand playing in the luxury field that keeps sport so relevant in every product they build. Doesn't matter which BMW you look at, the sport factor is there in spades.

    Infiniti is trying to build the same type of house in Japan and they're well on their way to doing so, but they've got some details yet to iron out before approaching BMW overall.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Sorry - as stated we are in total and complete disagreement.

    You totally and completely disagree with my assessment of the very good comfort? How about the smooth tranny? What about the good audio?

    I gave a lot of praise as well as expressed where I thought the Lexus was lacking. My opinion, of course, but
    heck, you obviously just don't like it that I found ANY faults with the Lexus, like the engine being buzzier than others at higher revs.

    Wow, any criticism at all, and we agree on NOTHING? C,mon, now, that New Jersey air can't be THAT bad, can it? Extreme positions just lose credibility in my opinion.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    The avearge Lexus buyer is an old souless geezer ready for the casket, has no interest in a performance car and wouldn't desire or recognize one if it was handed to him, must be a boring peasant like person who has no excitement in his life, seeks a better than average car that is a Toyota Avalon plus, seeks value at every turn (of course that's at serious odds with spending $30-40K more than an Avalon costs - but I guess we're a bunch of idiots who don't know any better). As well we are MB wannabe drivers/owners, we base and justify our entire decison on a combo of Toyota's financial statements, reliabilty surveys and CR's April auto issue, and we need to put down German marque's to justify our purchases. Did I miss anything?

    So that's the picture painted. I just wanted to summarize all this to show how ridiculously absurd the points are. But of course if it's what a German car lover wants to believe, maybe needs to believe, then go on believing it.

    Now of course some of this is being peddled by a person who doesn't even own a German car, and in fact bought a Japanese car instead, but what the heck.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    After reading that you can add one more characteristic:

    Good sense of humor on rare occassion!

    That was good. Thanks.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Tagman - Just needed to put things in perspective.

    Forgot one thing though - there's one thing we all have in common per our beloved designman (who BTW needs to beg forgiveness if he ever wants me to talk to him again - for saying I wouldn't understand anything about performance) - that being we are a bunch of Yenta's.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    No more personal comments/insults - they are out of line and not contributing to this conversation in any positive way.

    And they will be removed from here on out.

    If you cannot keep your comments restricted to the topic, you need to just skip it altogether.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The German fans do seem to miss (or gloss over) the fact that Lexus cars have certain very attractive qualities. I've never claimed that Lexus has the most exciting, invigorating cars in the world. Most of us owners (except for the few on the boards that think Lexus will roll over the world like Alexander The Great, Napoleon, and the Vermacht combined), drive them for the quality, comfort, luxury, service, and unmatched reliability.

    That doesnt mean we've all forgotten how to drive, or that cars can be fun. I love cars like the E55, the 911 Turbo, etc. The problem with said vehicles is that I could use their capabilities... maybe 1% of the time, if even that. It just doesnt seem like thats worth the money to actually own one.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    The Infiniti M is the finest attempt by a Japanese company to create a true LPS.
    Now they must redesign the Q45.
    Is anybody buying that car?
    Now there's a car in need of a miraculous refurbishing.
    If anyone can do it, Infiniti can.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    In being facetious, you have created the perfect description of the average LS430 buyer and his interest or lack of it.
    The difference between you and the German/European school of posters here is we accept your description as gospel.
    Nothing facetious about it.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Hey, I'm already on the record as saying I can't wait to see and drive the 2007 LS.
    I intend to be the first BMW kid on my block to do so.

    I have driven the current LS several times and had several criticisms of the car.
    I hope the new LS improves upon those things.

    I also hope the new LS will be more appealing to younger buyers.
    A smart re-styling should fix that.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    That's good lexusguy, because a little ways back I described my recent test drive and impressions of the Lexus. I gave the credit to be similar to what you just described and had some criticisms as well. I still think it was balanced, but not every Lexus fan was willing to accept some of the opinions and impressions about the vehicle (which were about the VEHICLE and no one personally, as our host has made very clear.)

    But, sure enough, here you are saying that no credit is ever given. It happened, my friend, and credit was given the Lexus where it was due, and so were some criticisms (of the vehicle, not any persons), so be prepared. It must have been a miracle and you missed it. So, check back on the posts (#11858, I believe) a couple of pages, read through some of the rest of the mess, and then you can restate yourself in a new post.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    That's funny because no one I know fits that description and didn't you say a bunch of Tampa bay football players have it. Most people I know are in their 40's to low 50's and very aggressive people in life, and very successful. I'm one of them.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    True. There are some Bucs who admitted to having LS's several years ago.
    But since getting these cars, they had become complacent NFL LoSers over the last 2 years.
    Lethargic players driving lethargic cars.
    I believe the car made them perform on the field like er... geezers.

    They have a winning record this year.
    Must have traded those LS's in for BMW 545's.
    They are playing with more pizzazz!
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    OK, I’ll beg for forgiveness. But just remember, I have suggested this on many occasions whether here or in other Edmunds threads. Never confuse my own preference for cars with the personality, character and intelligence of the people who buy them or comment on them. The people really have nothing to do with the cars. Pardon me if I err and my words suggest otherwise. It is plain to see that you and many other folks around here are very interesting and intelligent people. If I didn’t think this was the case, I wouldn’t bother coming around.

    And that, my friend, is as serious as I am going to get! I trust you will forgive me, for whatever the hell it is that I said!

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    That doesnt mean we've all forgotten how to drive, or that cars can be fun. I love cars like the E55, the 911 Turbo, etc. The problem with said vehicles is that I could use their capabilities... maybe 1% of the time, if even that. It just doesnt seem like thats worth the money to actually own one.

    Hmm, is it worth the money to have a Jag? Maybe you should consider a poor little ol’ Carrera. You’ll still be around your 1% capabilities threshold but will have cut the price just about in half. You can even get a 996 Turbo for nearly the price of a new rank-and-file Carrera. Lexusguy, there are plenty of ways to get your money’s worth out of a Porsche.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Thanks Len for capturing the essence of this debate so well. That just about sums it all up for me, including the CTS and Yentas (Designman has the CTS thing patented, I suppose, if not he should :)).
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    A BMW with the comfort seats and you will never go back to Lexus again!

    Which models have this ? And what is a *comfort seat* ? Bigger thigh support, lumbar support, or more beef in the padding ? BTW, my LS seats are plenty comfy for me. If they get any comfier(?) I'd simply fall asleep driving. Don't want that, being a geezer who drives an LS :)
  • Ljflx, you know, despite your obvious intention, this isn't too far off. To expand on it, many a Lexus buyer would be in a Caddy or a Buick if Lexus didn't exist.

    Now, lets see the rest of your creative talents. Show us that you can bat from both sides of the plate. Let me give you a running start:

    "The average MB buyer is eager to make an impression. So eager in fact that in most cases he isn't even a buyer but someone who leases. He typically is a crass materialist, more interested in impressing valets and strangers at stop lights than he is in reliability, value for his money, or even resale. He is more likely to wear a gold Rolex Presidential, faux or real, then an Audimar(?) Piaget, when he shops for clothing he is very label conscious and would rather have a polo player imprinted on his dress shirt than a breast pocket,when he invests he'd rather buy a load fund through his broker than a low cost, better performing index fund from Vanguard, ...."
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    "OK, I’ll beg for forgiveness."

    I was kidding of course. You know I love your posts, humor and great personality.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Blockisland guy - I can't agree with that decription because the people I know that own one or owned them in the past hardly fit that criteria. They fit my profile actually and simply always wanted what they thought is the best built product out there. That's also why they are so frustrated with the company because as far as they are concerned it's gone off track. I'd say the people I know also fit the profile of GaryH from everything I've seen of his posts. These are secure successful professional people or entrepenneurs and not wannabes. I do think all 3 brands, plus Audi and maybe Infinito to lesser extents have buyers who are seeking status and in that case MB probably leads the pack.

    BTW - I did recently ask my sales guy what kind of percentages lease vs. buy. He used to sell MB's and now moved to Lexus under Ray Catena's corp here in NJ. He said about 2/3rds of the MB's are leased and Lexus is over 50% but not as high as the MB ratio. But that's just his experience.
  • I would love to see a convertable LS..4 door with suicide doors...I had a 61 lincoln like that it was awesome.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    You see, I have taken the time to drive an LS430, 3 times. I know what I am talking about when I say the BMW comfort seats are more comfortable than the seats in the LS.

    Why don't you go to your local BMW dealer and check out the new 550 with the comfort seats. Take it for a spin.
    It could be a turning point in your life. (pun intended!)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    You had him groveling. Why mess it up? ;)
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    You mean he was down in the dumps like Ralph. Homina, homina, homina. Must of threw his hands around and had that blank expression on his face too. Ah - you gotta love designman, what can I tell you.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    But today I was at the dealership as I took a new GX470. My old one wasn't due until next year but the low Dec-to-Remember interest rates allowed me into a new lease. My old GX retained real high residual so they actually wanted it back and were able to put me in a new one for $32 a month cheaper than I paid before. Again much higher residual rates going forward then were pegged on the Gx originally in 2003/4 in conjunction with high resale values on those model years allowed all this to happen. They iniated it, not me. But then I got frustrated because I go to pick a color and I find out almost every GX due in is already sold. I wanted white with ash grey interior and they were able to get it in the end. So now after this discussion I'm thinking back to this aging population of buyer the board speaks of and remembering that the cowd in the dealership today - and it was crowded, was all young people in their 30's, 40's and some 50's. I'd say the age you see buying cars is very tied to the demos in zip codes in your area and not a generalization of any type of buyer.

    OAC - The news on the 2007 LS is now known to Lexus dealership owners but not the sales people. Apparently some big meetings with Japan execs took place regionally and one nationally in Vegas. I'll see what I can find out from my source. But I do know the car we saw in Tokyo is high 90's percent wise what we are getting.
  • but I have something to say. There seems to be a lot of talk about sales charts and how they validate the best car or car company. I'm a musician and I get this thing called billboard magazine. It tracks the biggest sellers in all genres of music. This will tell you that Mariah Carey, fitty cent {yes I spelled that right} and say Brittney Spears {don't care if I spelled that wrong} are the big sellers. Based on the aforementioned facts, will the Lexus guy who keeps harping on they're leading sales be listening to these artists in his select comfort bed err Lexus? :shades:
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Thanks Len for the update on the 2007 LS. The NAIS meeting in January should tell us a lot more about this car. It seems assured to arrive here next Fall. Of course if you find out anything more pls pass on. I should go to Japan next Spring and hopefully gather as much scoop as I could assuming we are still in the dark about this car by that time period.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    SoundScan charts the music sales leaders, VideoScan tracks DVD's and BookScan charts books. Billboard just has publishing rights to the music charts and when both they and SoundScan were independent they paid a fortune to SoundScan to keep their name associated with the chart. Trust me - I know the industry inside out.

    BTW - the entertainment industry are big time embracers of hybrids. From what I know many agents snap up the RX hybrid for their clientele and believe it ot not they've already deposited the GX hybrid and the LS hybrid this far in advance.
  • So whats your point?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    If SoundScan drops Billboard for say R&R - they aren't the Billbord charts anymore.
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