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High End Luxury Cars



  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    How bout we take the 3-series off of BMW and see how things look. Very silly argument that doesn't hold water and actually exposes stupid management decisions by the Germans to miss the biggest growth segment in automotive history.

    Oh wait, those are just "poseur-mobiles", as someone said before. (previous post)... so I shouldn't have even counted those in the first place...
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I was only kidding about Bush and Chavez. Isn't that what the ;) meant?

    I really did try and like the GS 430 but it didn't meet my expectations. As a matter of fact, I stated that the GS300 handled better but I wanted a more powerful engine.

    True: I did get the 545 for less than the GS430 (about $25 a month less) and I did say the BMW comfort seat was better than the GS' drivers' seat, but if the GS outhandled the 545, knowing me, I would have shelled out for the GS.
    The way a car drives is still #1 with me and $25 a month is almost insignificant to me.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    "...actually exposes stupid management decisions by the Germans to miss the biggest growth segment in automotive history."

    Actually, MB, Porsche, Audi and BMW are desperately trying to catch up to the market. From the X3/X5, Cayenne/Touareg, to the GL, followed by the Q7, and then a me-too R-class clone from BMW. Pretty soon, all the Germans would be band-wagonning on SUVs and minivans..... What would die-hard, car enthusiasts then think of their fav German brand ???
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    You had to make me go look. Now I feel like an attorney on "Close to Home".

    2390 of 2808 Re: No GS 430 for me [maxhonda99] by hpowders Jun 06, 2005 (3:37 pm)
    Bookmark | Reply | E-mail Msg
    Replying to: maxhonda99 (Jun 06, 2005 2:47 pm)

    Thanks for putting some sanity into all this. I'm not a reckless driver and I do mostly highway driving so hopefully I can get more than 15k out of those tires.
    I just got another nice lease offer and I do believe I will take them up on it.
    I love the GS430.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Manipulating numbers doesn't compare apples to apples. A fairer comparison is certainly a comparison that either includes ALL vehices by manufacturers in a specific market, or CERTAIN vehicles in a specific market, but NOT ALL vehicles against CERTAIN vehicles. Further, these numbers can be manipulated to paint very different results. Imagine Ford's numbers without the F-Series trucks. Certainly different.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    The problem initially was that I asked the dealer for a GS430 test drive but he mistakenly gave me the GS300 and my impression was a positive one so I wrote a positive review on the car. I thought it was the 430 but contradictory posts soon followed after that because I drove the REAL GS430 several times after that and definitely posted that I had serious issues with the steering and brakes.
    I maintain to this day that the GS300 is a better car than the GS430. If only it had more power.

    Honest mistake: the dealer slipped me a GS300, not a GS430! He probably didn't have a 430 at that time for me to drive.
    Definitely not mea culpa!
    I am a victim of circumstance and I will not retract my nomination to the US Supreme Court. ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I love the GS430.

    Looks like you've been pinned! ljflx has most definately nailed you. Just admit you suffered from temporary insanity already, and that was your frame of mind at that moment in time. The bigger question is ... have you recovered? ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    See the post directly above yours. Wasn't my fault. I never loved the REAL GS430!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    really? You said you LOVED something.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    There is a procedure from Automobile magazine that lets the driver turn off VSC in a GS, explained here. Maybe you bimmaniacs can try it out the next time you take a GS for a test drive.

    Road test coordinator Marc Noordeloos performed the complicated procedure, took a test drive, and, while grinning from ear to ear, pronounced the car transformed.

    Someday there might be a simple switch so that the "driving dynamics" crowd can simply turn the thing off.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I liked the GS300 quite a bit. Handled decently. Good brakes and steering. Problem was I thought it was the GS430.
    I drove the real GS430 two times after that and I knew the first car obviously wasn't the 430.
    I then asked to drive the GS300 and sure enough I realized the first dealer slipped me a GS300.
    I guess on seeing my disheveled appearance (hot Florida day), the first dealer could have assumed the 430 was out of my league.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    That would be a welcome addition. I'm sure Lexus is well aware of the criticism.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I understand all that, but ljflx has raised an interesting point here. Whatever you might have THOUGHT it was, you nonetheless LOVED it (apparently the GS300 !).
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    In all honesty how on earth can a performance oriented car driver not tell the difference between the two cars. It takes all of about 10 seconds of driving. I know - I drove both.

    Now you are really looking bad. This wasn't your only indication of love or desire for the car - so take tagmans advice. Plus you were getting ready to pay GS430 prices for a GS3??
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    There is a procedure from Automobile magazine that lets the driver turn off VSC in a GS

    Useless procedure, given that generally only "Lexus" drivers will be behind the wheel of a Lexus anyway. In fact, disabling the VSC could endanger a "Lexus" driver's life! Attention Lexus drivers . . . NEVER try this at home...this procedure to be performed by professional BMW drivers only.

    (OK, just kidding . . . don't get like oac and have a stroke)

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Yes, yes, bimmanics are superior human beings.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Syswei - they don't even know which cars they are driving.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I thought the GS300 was a better car to drive than the GS430 and the LS430.
    It needs a better driver's seat and a bigger engine.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Of course not. I drove 2 GS430's after the GS300.
    The dealer made me the offer after driving the second GS430, but I had issues with the brakes, steering and driver's seat.
    It was a good offer but since I didn't jump at it, how in love with the GS430 could I have been?
    If I did love the car, the dealer never would have made me that offer in the first place.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    OK, just kidding . . . don't get like oac and have a stroke

    I know you were kidding, but why use me as the poster child for Lexus ? And I will let you know that I love sporty cars, for now, family needs dictate my car needs. Once the kids are off to College, I plan on something a lot more fun. I have said that repeatedly on this forum.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Come on. It was early in the morning in the Florida summer. Hot, muggy, EARLY!
    At least I realized a little later that it wasn't the GS430.
    The guy wasn't trying to sell me a GS300 for a GS430 price.
    Simple miscommunication. Hey it happens.

    After all this grilling, I don't even get the supreme court seat.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I test drove the GS300 back to back with an M35 and wrote my review in the LPS forum. While the GS was a great car, I found the M35 a tad better in driving. Duh ! But the GS430 was a totally different beast. That car is a whole lotta different animal from the GS300. You gotta know like 10s, just like Len said. The speed and handling of the GS430 is a lot better than the GS300. I am actualy shocked you liked the GS300 with its slow footed, longer throw tranny, and not very inspiring handling. The GS430 is a worthy competitor to the Bimmer except that the auto rags continue to rag on it due to a lack of a *kill switch* for the VDIM. Not that anyone drives like a maniac on the roads to need a kill-switch for VDIM, or do Bimmer fans always drive like they are on race tracks all the time ? I see more poseur Bimmer owners than real BMW *drivers*, here in San Diego. BMWs, like Lexus, are everywhere.... Everyone and their dog seem to have one.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Grilling over - you get the job - new sales director of Lexus in Florida.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I found that the GS430 had wishy-washy adaptive steering which at times seemed quite a bit over-boosted whereas the GS300 had more consistant steering. Also, the brakes on the GS430 (brakes by wire?) were disturbingly grabby. I couldn't bring the vehicle to a well-modulated stop. I did not have this problem with the GS300.
    All in all, too much "innovative interference" on the GS430 for me.
    The VDIM switch was a non-issue for me.
    I drive fast but I'm not suicidal.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Excellent! While I would be paid extremely well for talking up Lexus, I would be using some of that cash to get a Porsche 911.
    I would park it in the back of Lexus Florida Corporate.
    Believe me, Lexus needs no help in Florida.
    There are almost as many Lexi down here as man-eating 'gators.
    What am I doing here?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    I find it a joke that hpowders is being grilled for what he said about the GS. Isn't it quite funny that the Lexicans here are not being grilled for what they said in prior posts about Bangle design.

    Now that Toyota/Lexus is emulating Bangle all of a sudden Lexicans are united in thier admiration for the Bangle curves of their upcoming LS460.

    I hereby declare that all Lexicans should be put on trial based on their anti Bangle posts from prior years.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    What am I doing here?

    How about - Enjoying the sun.

    I was just down in Sarasota on business a month ago when it was freezing up here. But I stayed in Tampa at the Renaissance Vinoy. Great hotel. It was 84. Came home to a snowstorm in NY and asked the same question to myself.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    "Now that Toyota/Lexus is emulating Bangle all of a sudden Lexicans are united in thier admiration for the curvacious Bangle design of their upcoming LS460"

    How about - We don't see the resemblance. But I guess the big 7 is a big Camry to many of you if that's what you see though.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    So, doesn't that mean that higher prestige is "worth" something?

    Yes! But if you are trying to suggest that a LS is equal to a MB S, forget it! Prestige is reflected in price premiums but prestige also has to be earned with good engineering and design. As I said before if the only advantage MB S has over the Lexus LS is prestige then MB S would be in the same dire consequences as Jaguar is right now.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    First off, this is a truly weak excuse for the S. I have said repeatedly, and Merc1 also agreed, the LS costs less bcos it is produced more efficiently at a lower cost. Conversely, the S costs more becos it is produced at a higher cost. Except if you are asking MB to sell its high-end marque cars at steep losses... to match the LS in price. This is an MB problem, not Lexus'...

    Completely disagree!

    MB is not as cost efficient as Toyota just as Toyota is not as cost efficient as Hyundai. This is not about cost efficiency but about how highly MB is perceived relative to the LS and the willingness of buyers to pay bigger bucks for an equivalent MB.
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