High End Luxury Cars

hpowders

How do I recognize envy?

When "shrewd" gets defined as "slow."

Human behavior is indeed fascinating.

hpowders

Dewey is not jealous. Dewey buys. He doesn't lease.

The idea is basically the same though, either way: Negotiate the lowest selling price of the car by contacting as many dealers as possible, and if you finance it, shop around for the lowest interest rate. All you need is the time and patience...and having my brain wouldn't hurt! :P

hpowders

Well, that's probably the way the current hosts moved out the old hosts. :shades:

Kirstie_H

In a feeble attempt to steer us back a little:

No, we're on a pyramid scheme. Once we've recruited enough hosts under us, we become Grand Divisional Host Vice-Directors and receive our choice of high-end luxury vehicles. Then we retire, just watching the residual $$ roll in from all of the Regional Hosts in our "network"...

hpowders

Works great on cyberpaper!

LOL!!

PS: You could actually be perfectly serious and finessed that one right through me. :surprise:

tagman

Dewey - Kubota and John Deere could take lessons from that.

TagMan

tagman

Whenever I am getting close to assuming a new lease, I always negotiate the best price of the car I can get, which will be somewhere between dealer's cost and MSRP, as if I was buying the car. All other things being equal, it is the key to obtaining the lowest monthly payment.

The idea is basically the same though, either way: Negotiate the lowest selling price of the car by contacting as many dealers as possible, and if you finance it, shop around for the lowest interest rate. All you need is the time and patience.

Be very careful how you explain this highly-complicated procedure.

Negotiating between the dealer's cost and the MSRP is much too difficult for some. I believe that those folks should have unlimited access to handicapped parking... and use a Lexus LS to self-park in the space, provided, of course, that they've mastered the self-park system and have got an extra 30 minutes to park.

TagMan

dewey

Would someone choose an LS because of features like self-park. Absolutely. CNET gave the LS the highest rating they ever gave to any car because of such gizmos.

IMO such an option is frivolous. But the LS460 is not alone in such frivolity.

All luxury models have their own interpretation of frivolity. At BMW they call it idrive and BMW claims the next generation BMW 7 series will be the first "Car of the Internet Age" (I dread the thought of what that means).

Call me a Luddite but I would actually pay to avoid such gizmos. Maybe in the future simplicity will become a luxury?

cdnpinhead

Tell me about it.

Try to find a nicely-appointed car w/ a manual.

There's BMW (only as high as the 5 series) and then there's. . .

dewey

Dewey is not jealous. Dewey buys. He doesn't lease.

You bet I am jealous! :mad:

If I could get such lease deals I would be leasing today. Unfortunately the dealerships I had visited in Canada are not as generous.

dewey

Try to find a nicely-appointed car w/ a manual.

There's BMW (only as high as the 5 series) and then there's. . .

Yes and how long will it be when SMG replaces a stick in the 5 series. If manual sales are such a small portion of 5 series volume than what will stop BMW from offering such an option?

houdini1

I'm sorry, I could only stand to watch the first 20 or so seconds of the video. It felt like 30 minutes. This is the dumbest (most dumb?) option on any car. Lexus, shame on you.

Just when you think the Japanese have the U.S. market figured out they come out with some crazy color or some option like this. I apologize to the other members of the forum on behalf of Lexus.

hpowders

Well your Leafs beat my Lightning recently. So that should ease the pain a bit. Have a Tim Horton's doughnut on me!

designman

They must have a pact. Keep piling junk on all of these cars and the buyer has no alternative but to dig into their pockets. One of the problems is that people buy into the mystique of options. They think their car is inferior if it isn't loaded.

2001gs430

This is a more positive perspective on the LS460 and its self-park toy. link title

The entire process of parallel parking is effortless and very impressive — at least, when you have a Lexus official guiding you step by step.

I guess these people working for Lexus all have PHDs
wait a minute, maybe the writer is paid off by Lexus? :surprise:

designman

Do you have any sales data on SMG? I don't think it's doing too hot.

tagman

I'm sorry, I could only stand to watch the first 20 or so seconds of the video. It felt like 30 minutes. This is the dumbest (most dumb?) option on any car. Lexus, shame on you.

Just when you think the Japanese have the U.S. market figured out they come out with some crazy color or some option like this. I apologize to the other members of the forum on behalf of Lexus.

Am I on the right forum here?

A salute to Houdini for not defending everything done by Lexus just because it is Lexus!!

Rational and objective... admirable post.

TagMan

houdini1

Kirstie, why don't you make your own video of this self parking gizmo. Once again you can display that fine pair of....shoes!

houdini1

I think it is now you who are sending me subliminal messages. I even agreed with you on the LS forum today concerning the LS hybrid.

tagman

I even agreed with you on the LS forum today concerning the LS hybrid.

Yeah, I saw that. Thanks.

I do think lj is about to risk some major money on that LS600hL. Maybe before he takes delivery he will read some of the information about the risk involved in purchasing an expensive powertrain that is about to undergo serious change and even replacement.

TagMan

designman

Tagman, I'm not following you. If you lease a 600hL there's no risk. Also, the power train is not apt to change much, rather, it's the battery tech that will.

tagman

Tagman, I'm not following you. If you lease a 600hL there's no risk. Also, the power train is not apt to change much, rather, it's the battery tech that will.

The risk is with the car itself and not the lease.

Good point that the lease itself will absorb the risk that is so inherent with this car. Thank goodness for the lease in this case.

I posted a thank you to YOU on the LS board for bringing up such a good point.

TagMan

Kirstie_H

Because...
1) I am the finest parallel parker on the planet, and

2) Since I am still working here, I have obviously not yet obtained the rank of Grand Divisional Host Vice-Director, and therefore do not own a Lexus LS.

I am hoping that I find one in my driveway with a big red bow on Christmas morning, just like those commercials promise me.

designman

Gotcha. Thanks!

dewey

I have no SMG sales data whatsoever. The current generation of SMG is pitiful. I was assuming that a future SMG tranny in a next generation 5 series will at least be as good as the current DSG tranny from VW/Audi.

Or maybe I was assuming too much?

drfill

Have to give you, and Tag, a raspberry, Houdini. :P

Unless you have used the system yourself, it is foolish, at best, to condemn the feature.

Lexus doesn't owe anyone an apology for offering optional equipment.

I just got a call on the Bat Phone, and I will now have to OFFICIALLY RETURN your apology for Lexus! :surprise:

If it is a disagreeable feature, at least it is optional, unlike iDrive, which you MUST buy if you want a 5 or 7-series BMW. That is something to apologize for!

DrFill

dewey

1) The latest important automotive news from Muscat indicates that as of Dec. 14, 2006 the very dated LS430 is a brand new Lexus model for the Oman market:

MUSCAT — One of the world’s best luxury cars in terms of quality and refinement, the Lexus LS430 features a near-magical mix of technology and comfort, together with low depreciation. A powerful V-8 combines with a 6-speed automatic to provide scintillating performance. Lexus does not have a long history but in a few short years, the marque has established itself as the world’s quality leader. The LS is Lexus’ flagbearer, a large, 4-door luxury sedan that truly pampers its passengers with class-leading luxury features. The Lexus LS430 takes this to a new level, adding performance to the mix with a powerful engine and a slick, multi-speed transmission.

2) Now here is a revelation about the LS that I never knew about and I can thank those hard working journalists from Oman for this tidbit:

The new LS, normally chauffeur-driven in its home country, continues this emphasis on executive comfort, drawing on an impressive orchestration of computer-operated electronic systems to accomplish its aims.

Frankly, you could live without most of these gizmos but in the high stakes luxury game, they gain bragging points. In the final analysis, the Lexus LS430 is premium transport, fit for a corporate president. Though the driving pleasure might often be the privilege of his chauffeur.

In otherwords the LS is mainly chauffeur-driven in Japan. And it appears the LS is mainly chauffeur driven in Oman. Is it any wonder that the LS is more of a passenger car than a driver's car?
Also this journalist wisely points out that the gizmos in the LS 430 are of little practical use but of great use for bragging rights. Hmmm, maybe we North Americans are a lot like those folks in Oman? And imagine the enhanced bragging rights involved with a LS460 Self park feature :lemon:

3) And last but not least take a look at the perks of owning a LS in Oman:

Lexus vehicles are brought to you in Oman by the Saud Bahwan Group. In Oman, every Lexus vehicle comes with special benefits and privileges such as a six-year unlimited extended mileage protection — Aman Bahwan and Lexus Prestige Club Card that offers 24-hour on-road assistance from AAA, shopping discounts from more than 300 premium outlets, exclusive meet-and-greet service at Seeb International Airport, and much more.

Thanks to the Saud Bahwan group you get to be a part of an exclusive Meet-and-Greet service at Seeb International Airport. Sort of like the exclusive Lexus Meet and Greet forums at Edmunds. I guess no one will greet you or meet you at Seeb if you talk about LS perforance/handling vs. BMW performance/handling

SOURCE: THE OMAN TIMES

houdini1

Doc, I understand how you feel, but to me this is just a lame feature. Maybe some will buy it but it is not for me. Since it is optional that is a good thing. The LS is still the one true HELC. Peace.

dewey

If it is a disagreeable feature, at least it is optional, unlike iDrive, which you MUST buy if you want a 5 or 7-series BMW. That is something to apologize for!

True, very true. But at least you do not have to pay for the option of vandalizing your car and other cars while parallel parking.

dewey

The LS is still the one true HELC. Peace.

If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
Moshe Dayan

esf

I actually beat you to it. Last night, I noticed that article @ AudiWorld myself.

I live in Chicago, and I haven't really been spying every Audi that passes by, but yes, they seem to have increased by some margin.

I don't think Audi being connected to VW is much of a problem. Well, maybe to some. To them, I say, thank God for their new modular platforms! By 2015 at the latest, not a single Audi is going to have a platform shared with a VW. They're all going to have platforms shared with each other, configurable with different trannys, engines and wheelbases. The first to get this treatment is the new A5 coupe, which will debut at the Geneva Show in March. I'm excited- it's supposed to have much better handling than past Audis (much less front overhang; engine behind front axle) and will effectively rid the brand of its nose-heavy attitude. The RS4's nose-heaviness magically disappeared even without it, however, and I wish they could've worked the same magic with the current, lesser models!

I'm glad Audi is more separate from VW than Lexus is from Toyota, however. Audi develops their own engines and technologies, VW theirs. They share a few common ones- 3.2FSI, 2.0TFSI, 4.2FSI -but not much else.

Next year, there's a possibility that China will surpass the US as the #1 world car market, which would propel Audi to the top of the heap. They have a huge sales lead, and could easily surpass 1,000,000 cars next year. Audi, Mercedes and BMW are all very close, but the others trail significantly.

'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330

esf

Whoops! They actually don't share the 3.2FSI engine- that's exclusive to Audi.

Confusingly, there's a 3.2L engine without FSI that makes identical power, but with slightly worse gas mileage. It's a true VR6, unlike the FSI version.

The 3.2L w/o FSI is used in the A3, TT, and R32, and I'm sure a few more.

The 3.2FSI is used in the A4 and A6- I don't know if any others are using it at this time.

'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330

nvbanker

I'm glad Audi is more separate from VW than Lexus is from Toyota, however. Audi develops their own engines and technologies, VW theirs.

Clearly, you know nothing about Lexus and their parent, Toyota.

merc1

Thank Goodness!

M

houdini1

The first to get this treatment is the new A5 coupe, which will debut at the Geneva Show in March. I'm excited- it's supposed to have much better handling than past Audis (much less front overhang; engine behind front axle) and will effectively rid the brand of its nose-heavy attitude

Another mea culpa about some of the faults of the outgoing model.

dewey

Definitely great news for the MB productline.

No shared platforms between MB and Chrysler.
No shared platforms in the near future between Audi and VW.
BMW continuing its tradition of avoiding re-badged engineering.

So whose the blacksheep of the family now? Porsche. Unlike the other German marques Porsche plans to increase its links to VW. In this case tradition prevails since we should not forget Dr. Ferdinand Porsche did build his first 911 with VW parts.

Here is some interesting tidbit about Porsche's grandson from the Economist:

ACCORDING to rumour, Ferdinand Piëch likes to run chickens off the road in his Volkswagen Touareg. Whether that is true or not, he certainly tends to ride roughshod over humans, metaphorically at least. During his long career as head of Audi, chief executive of Volkswagen and now VW's supervisory-board chairman, he is reckoned to have fired at least 30 directors. They include three of his successors as head of Audi, a Volkswagen subsidiary, and his latest victim, Bernd Pischetsrieder, who succeeded him in 2002 as boss of VW. On November 7th the firm said that Mr Pischetsrieder would leave at the end of the year. It was another swift and bloodless execution by Mr Piëch. A manic, blue-eyed 69-year-old, Mr Piëch combines the cold logic of Darwinism with a military ruthlessness in his commercial dealings.

dewey

Clearly, you know nothing about Lexus and their parent, Toyota.

Clearly you know something that we all dont know?

Toyota does share engines and platforms with Lexus. That may not be the case for all Lexuses but it is the case for certain SUVs and the ES.

Please enlighten us with what you do know about Lexus?

merc1

Well out of all the issues, bets, concerns I have going about Mercedes that may be the best one to get resolved (or at least we think it is). Now if the E could shoot past the 5 and that S Cabriolet turned into a CL Cabrio.......

M

dewey

that S Cabriolet turned into a CL Cabrio.......

Well in that case this is how the new CL Cabrio will look like if it had four doors.



BenzInsider

blkhemi

Agreed.

With the exception of a few Lexus vehicles, they all mostly spun from lower end models, a GM and Ford tactic that has costed them a great deal.

ES350- Toyota Camry
RX350/400h- Toyota Highlander/HSD
GX470-Toyota 4-Runner V8
LX470-Toyota Land Cruiser

The GS, which is based on a now-defunct Toyota model, and the IS, SC, and LS are the only sacred models for our market.

I sure would love to know anything else.

blkhemi

As I've eluded to time over time, Porsche's top brass is really interested in Audi, and could give a rats #$% about VW.

They want to dump Tiptronic in favor of DSG. They want to get into the know of making their classic staid interiors more posh in order to get more picky customers in the doors.
They need to know the characteristics of AWD when they actually do take the 911 front-engine(didn't thinkt they'd make a liquid-cooled engine either did ya?

These are all of the things that Audi can only teach.

I don't think they want to detach Audi from VW, but they definetely want to share technology.

tagman

when they actually do take the 911 front-engine

No way, Jose.

TagMan

tagman

Here's a blurb to show that Audi is paying some attention to its marketing.

link title

TagMan

blkhemi

Whoa Nelly!! Just because you got one of the last 911's as we know it doesn't mean they won't go front-engine. :P

Seriously, there has been talk of Porsche wanting to go hi-po V6 and V8 in the 911's in the future, and much of that talk has involved the upper brass in how to make the 911 front-engine and still enjoyable by the it's cult following.

We all thought it was all over for Porsche to go liquid-cooled. Well if they hadn't, we wouldn't have been driving Porsche's at all as they couldn't pass emissions.

And also, the company has really started to listen to the consumers of the 911's over the very premature tire wear it has, no doubt do mostly to the 60% rear end weight bias. Most 911 tires only last about 15k miles.

houdini1

And exactly what point are you trying to make here? That Toyota/Lexus is smarter, more cost efficient, and plans better than other car companies? We are supposed to be discussing the LS, not Toyota/Lexus lower end models. What Toyota shares the LS platform?

tagman

If Porsche is serious about weight distribution, then the REAL option is not front-engine, as you predict, but rather mid-engine, IMO. The next 911 might drop the rear seats, move the engine mid-ship, like the Cayman, but all the bells and whistles, high horse power, and super good looks would go to the 911, to maintain model distinction.

TagMan

merc1

Old article Dewey, we'll see what happens. Not offical pic either.

M

dhamilton

How dare esf post something negative about Audi's I think I won't come to this Audi hating forum anymore .

dewey

What a coincidence? Shortly after BMW officially acquires Britain's John Cooper Works, MB will likely soon be acqiring the British outfit McLaren.

McLaren

brightness04

Please enlighten us with what you do know about Lexus?

What you are missing is that Toyota is a full-line brand in its home market just like Mercedes, perhaps even more so at the HELC end. MB sells little tin cans like A class as well as S class. Toyota sells little tin cans like Yaris as well as the Century, which is above even the S class and competes with Rolls-Royce, which is the target of Maybach brand in the MB universe. So, there is no need to apologize for sharing platform with Toyota.