Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

14748505253118

Comments

  • markcinti3markcinti3 Member Posts: 17
    In the near term, the W8 will be in a VW and the W12 will be in an Audi.

    Somewhat later a W12 will be found in a new, larger VW called (so far) a D1. The D1 seems very close to the A8 -- but for that matter, the VW W8 car seems (price and somewhat class-wise) like it will compete with Audi. The W8 engine will be in the US in what is essentially a Passat, more luxurious, AWD, ESP, etc. $40k+ pricing. The W8 will be avail with auto-only in the US (according to Road & Track). The W8 will not be the same engine as the V8 that Audi currently offers. 3.7 liters as I recall, less than 300hp (270 or 280, I think). The beginning of the upmarket push for VW.

    The announced (by VW) marketing scheme is something like this:

    VW will "compete" with Mercedes, providing everything and more that Mercedes provides + all-wheel-drive for at least 20% fewer $'s.

    Audi will [continue to] "compete" with BMW, providing a more sport luxury approach than VW, which will be more "traditional" luxury.

    I believe (in the US at least) the approach will be to offer very high "content" for dollars in the VW familiy, and "higher capabilities" (boy will this tick-off some BMW-philes, I'm sure) than BMW for similar dollars in the Audi family.

    BMW's apparent counter-attack is to add more technology and spread AWD across the line -- as BMW certainly must feel that it competes with both Audi and Mercedes (and perhaps at some levels with VW even here in the US -- with more competition coming from VW what with the new power trains and all).

    Competition, from the consumer's point of view will certainly make 2002 and beyond very interesting, to say the least.

    Ready, aim, SHOP!
  • karl_chicagokarl_chicago Member Posts: 1
    .. in an 2002 Audi A4 3.0Q. I am impressed by the "professionalism" on this board, compared to others. I used to own a 97 Mitsu Eclipse GS-T, and had to deal with the teenage battles of "which car is fastest" between Hondas, Talons, etc.. obviously the Audi weeds out those folks. ;-)

    Anyways, I noticed alot of people on this board own/went with the 1.8T. Just curious as to why... it there any reason besides the obvious of saving a few thousand? It definately has some zip at 170hp, but it still pales to what my GS-T Eclipse had at 210hp. Since I'm looking for comparable speeds, the 3.0 may be the only option for me. And for those who went with the A4, what deterred you from the Suburu WRX, which has more speed but several thousand less??

    I'm not looking to buy for several months, so I'll be lurking on this board to see what some owners of a new 2002 A4 have to say.. so please voice your opinions!

    Also, curious to what you're paying under MSRP for them. Here at Edmunds the "TMV" is only $200 under MSRP.. yikes! Not much room there for haggling. I've noticed a few people here got some better deals, just curious if that's the exception and not the rule.

    Thanks in advance for the great info..
  • rsinger2rsinger2 Member Posts: 19
    Drove both an A4 1.8T 5 spd and a WRX 5 speed sedan back to back yesterday. Both were serious fun, and a considerable improvement over my '86 Audi 5000 Quattro. Now I'm torn: which one? (the other candidate: an '02 Altima). The primary descriptors that come to mind: the A4 was silky, the WRX was brash. I have to admit, I'm old enough to remember seeing Jimi Hendrix live, so the picture of me driving around in a "younger person's" car (the WRX) is a little unsettling. The WRX handled great, and I had the feeling it would offer a new world to explore at higher revs.The A4 was really sweet, though, no real noticeable turbo lag like my 5000. And: flat-out beautiful in the dolphin pearl gray, and a subtle, solid interior. I'm looking to buy in the immediate future, so - input sought: I need perspective!! :) Thanks
  • markcinti3markcinti3 Member Posts: 17
    The differences in numbers favors the Subaru -- the differences in refinement favor the Audi.

    Test reports indicate the Subaru can best the Audi S4 (which costs $40k). Any Audi is more refined. The Subaru will not be in any way a bad choice, based on test reports. Ground beef is not Filet Mignon -- or some other analogy.

    I love hamburgers -- I also am fond of Filet.

    Test drive each -- based on what I have read, you will not drive away unhappy with either one. They are not similar as far as I can tell, but so far, the drag strip champ is the Subaru.

    I would personally go for the Audi in a heartbeat.

    I respect the performance of the Subaru, however.

    To each his/her own.
  • fpereirafpereira Member Posts: 42
    Hi Mark, regarding VW's strategy, this is what I understood as well. According to a recent Business Week article, Piech the dictator is leaving soon and is choosing his lieutenants carefully so they can carry on after him. VW certainly did really well with the Passat, effectively raising the price point of the car on the merits of the car itself (by using many Audi parts--a method they seem to plan to continue in uprating VW cars).
    I don't understand why VW will go after Mercedes, since my understanding was that Mercedes was trying to catch up with BMW by making their cars a little more sporting. The article said VW fears losing the family car buyers as they go off the top of VW's line.
    BMW seems to be the leader in the brand-polish department, having an excellent reputation, heritage, and focused image on driving fun and sport. However, BMW may now be losing their way; Chris Bangle is doing some weird stuff... we'll just have to see how the new models turn out.
    I understood from the BW article that Audi outsold BMW in Germany last year, and that Audi was the most profitable division for VW. Is that right?
  • fpereirafpereira Member Posts: 42
    Only problem is, once you've realized what makes the German cars so fun to drive, you've aquired a very expensive taste... :-)
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    If you crave for tons of hp and very serious fun, also consider the S4. When you look at 2002 A4 3.0 prices (new bodystyle, MSRP about $39k loaded) vs a 2002 S4 (old bodystyle, MSRP about $43k loaded), there's not a big difference. However, I test drove the S4 a couple of days ago again and I simply can't believe the torque coming from the 2.7T twin-turbo engine. I test drove the WRX before too.....it's just not fair to compare the two. The WRX is geared towards what I think "raw power and fun".....the turbo just sounds way sweet. The Audi S4 is just a lot more refined than the WRX. True it costs like $14k more than the WRX, but heck, it's worth every penny when you think about a longer warranty and all maintenance included, and Audi is a luxury vehicle and the WRX is not. Yeah the WRX will turn heads (LOL its appearance is sure enough unique) and sure enough turn cops' heads, but an S4 is so subtle on the road, people just thought that's another sedan and you just blow people away. Did that to a "souped-up" Civic when I was test driving the S4 and he didn't even know what went wrong with his car LOL. Another thing is, it feels like there is a SOUL in German cars.....japanese cars are nice and reliable but it's just no comparison.

    And about the Edmunds TMV, well I chatted with a dealer guy in Ithaca, NY and he was willing to deal at $750 under MSRP.....and I believe in Chicago people got even better deals. Shop around......we in Chicago got 7 Audi dealerships and I'm sure they'll be willing to deal.

    LOL Mark, I like that analogy of filet and burgers. Definitely true.....I crave for filet when I want silky smooth performance, and I crave burgers when I wanna smoke some tires.

    Billy
  • markcinti3markcinti3 Member Posts: 17
    Those of you who have been with this board a while know that my wife and I have been to Audi's Driving School in January of each year 4 times and are again going in Jan '02. Audi AG always treats the US quattro club members to a Red Carpet day in Ingolstadt as part of a kick off to the driving school. Part of this treatment is lunch in the Audi excutive dining room with English speaking Audi VP's and "marketing" managers.

    Audi has outsold BMW for "several" (3 I think) years in a row -- in Germany. The fact that Audi has (until recently) run well-behind BMW in the US confounds the Germans, as they "assume" that Audi should handily beat BMW in the US since Audis cost less than BMW's. In Germany Audis are not less costly than BMW's -- so their sales supremacy is even more impressive.

    Anyway, Audi is also very proud of another "fact" -- the Audi A8 is as or more crashworthy than the Mercedes S class. Audi showed us a "crash test" video of Audi vs Mercedes -- they made certain we knew that it was not advertising. Comparison advertising, which we take for granted, is not allowed in Germany.

    So, Audi told us that they outsold BMW (for years) in Germany and had cars that equalled or bettered Mercedes in crashworthyness. Then, when one of our group mentioned that they also owned a Passat and told the Audi exec that he had nick named his Passat an Audi A5, the Audi exec bristled and made certain that we all knew that Audis competed against VW's -- and that VW's always took Audi's "hand me downs" or that VW outright used the Audi engineers development.

    At the very least, it appeared as if there was sibling rivalry, at most it was a "how dare you compare an Audi to a VW."

    Historically it has seemed to me that test reports (here in the US) focus on comparisons of cars from Audi and BMW that were "classed" the same rather than cars that were priced similarly.

    A case in point, the Audi A6 4.2 is generally compared to the BMW 540 but it has been priced closer to the BMW 530. The rationale must be that a V8 should be compared to a V8 -- cost be damned.

    I asked a friend of mine to shop for cars and to include an A6 2.7T in the mix -- and consider content, performance and price. He drove a Lexus, an Infiniti and a BMW before the 2.7T -- he claimed that the Audi performed better than all of the cars he tested, had better content than the BMW, but not quite as much as the Japanese cars and that the Audi could be had for significantly less money. He said he was almost totally sold on the BMW (5) prior to driving the Audi. Plus he thought the fact that it was a quattro was like a secret weapon.

    Anyway -- sorry for the long post, but Audi seems to be still recovering from some leftover perception problems in the US -- but hardly in its homeland.

    Anyone know when the next gen S4 is coming to the US?
  • tmcktmck Member Posts: 28
    I drove both a WRX sedan with 5-speed and WRX sport wagon with auto. Both performed extremely well. I am 60 yrs old and the Subie salesman who is also 60 and a friend of mine said I probably wouldn't be happy with the WRX after a year or so.
    I asked myself what I really wanted in a car other than good handling, power, and being "attractive". The answer was that I need leather, a sun roof, and outside temperature gauge. The WRX is a great car but doesn't have these. It is equipped as a "low end" car.
    I drove the A4 1.8T Quatro Tip and it has all of these plus more and is better looking than the WRX. The 1.8 is not what I would call fast but it is quick. I can live with the limited passing power of the A4 and marvel at what it can do with those 1800 cc. Before the A4 I had a Z-28 Camaro and a 300M so I do know about passing power.
    I am really pleased with the A4 because, on balance, it has everything I want at a reasonable price. Your mileage may vary.
  • markcinti3markcinti3 Member Posts: 17
    The A4 1.8T with the Tip is an excellent choice -- the 5spd manual has a different, more performance oriented character.

    Many say that they don't want to "go back" to a manual transmission. Then, they drive the A4 with quattro and a manual (and this applies to the 3.0 and the 2.5TD as well as the 1.8T).

    They are converted after a back to back test drive (of the Tip vs the manual).

    Some of the 1.8T people, then "go nuts" and make a few, relatively inexpensive upgrades to their A4's and then they are forever hooked: a relatively mild stage 1 chip for the engine, plus zero or perhaps even plus one tire upgrade (not needed with the A4 2002 sport option which includes 17" whee/tires), sport air filters, cat back exhaust systems and various and sundry air spoiling systems ranging from a rear deck-lid spoiler (Audi) to full-on ground effects from an Audi "partner" -- e.g., Joe Hoppen Motorsports amongst many others, to uprated brakes and improved audio systems.

    Some even go all the way with new turbos and "heavy duty" everthing.

    All of this in an Audi which still retains refinement, features & functions that enhance performance (standard) and the Audi "sport luxury" characteristics.

    I'd better stop before I drool.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Check out Edmunds' recently published First Drive of the 2002 A4 by following the link on the left sidebar of this page.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • nobeenobee Member Posts: 194
    Was informed by Auto Exchange (Kaiserslautern, Germany) that I can NOT pick up my new Audi! What the *#@!! Something to the fact of Audi of Germany not authorizing the release of some paperwork for the vehicle...So rather than getting too emotional, went to the bmw dealership and picked me up a '02 325i! Good job Audi, you just lost another customer to BMW.
    -brian
  • rsinger2rsinger2 Member Posts: 19
    Thanks for the feedback, variety of perspectives. Wasn't there an Elvis Presley movie where he flipped a coin to see what branch of service to join? It may come down to that.
  • btr1btr1 Member Posts: 20
    in 5 to 10 years - would you rather been driving a subaru or Audi? Maybe I'm already getting old - I'd rather be driving an Audi in ten years....speed is fleeting, appearance is forever!
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    Funny that you should say that....I would have used "appearance is fleeting, speed is forever" as an argument for the Subaru.

    Seriously, I own a 1997 A4 and it bores me to tears. I used to be so proud of its fine appointments, but in the end, styling is just that, it's just skin deep. I used to brag how the materials/plastics in the Audi were higher quality, but now I don't even notice. As a driver, the Subaru's sportier nature will continue to reward me well into the future, that's something I'll notice every day. Don't get me wrong, the Audi is nicely appointed, but in the end, its how the car drives which will form the basis of a long term relationship.

    And also, I'm find that maintaining the Audi past the four year mark is getting mighty expensive. My front control arms need replacing (due to premature wear due to a design defect) and it's costing me $2000 Cdn ($1300 USD). No wonder people lease these cars and return them after four years. My personal experience with my own car would lead me to believe that it's not as reliable as your typical Subaru. Your mileage may vary of course, but it's unlikely I'll buy another Audi ever again based on what I know now.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    if I were to keep the WRX or an A4 for 10years, I would much rather own the WRX for all the $ I would have to lay out for the Audi after the free scheduled maint and warranty were no longer in affect. Additionally the Subaru's reliability would win me out too. Before people start saying the WRX is a new model, they have been out in other markets for over a year in the current bodystyle and in the older style but w/the same motor for a number of years before that. :-)

    Stephen
  • gymshoegymshoe Member Posts: 80
    10 years.
    Here's my predictions for both the WRX and A4 in 10 years.
    The WRX styling, both interior and exterior is very.....youthful and racy. The huge....sorry, the HUGE headlight/foglights is not very good looking. It's a very small car. Not a very good people hauler. The interior/exterior styling of the WRX will go out of date looong before 10 years is up. I have no clue on it's reliability so I won't comment.

    The A4 has one of those long lasting looks. Even the old A4 styling still looked sharp and modern when it was almost a decade old look. It looks sharp and classy where both young and old can appreciate. My cousin of 17 thinks the A4 looks sweet, my parents friends of retirement age thinks it looks sweet. The same cannot be said of the WRX.

    If you're looking for a car strictly for racing and performance, by all means, please buy a WRX. If you want a sliver of elegance, refinement, or classic coolness, you should consider the A4.

    I can't stand the looks of the WRX, my friend has one, and I've looked at it over and over and over and over, and I still can't see what he sees in it.
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    "Not a very good people hauler. "

    Last time I checked, the back seat of the WRX has *more* legroom than my 97 A4. The backseat room of the A4 is just plain pitiful and the new one isn't that much better. If you're looking for a people hauler, I suggest you look elsewhere.

    "I have no clue on it's reliability so I won't comment"

    Precisely, I predict that by the time the 10 years is up, I would have spent far more on maintenance. As I said, I have to replace my expensive control arms (my car has only 42000 mi) because it's a wear item. Likely I will have to do it again in four years. Add to that a bunch of other things that broke (steering leak, power mirrors, numerous buzzes in the dash), that will take the fun out of owning it very fast. I was shocked to find out a tube of touch up paint cost $20 Canadian (vs $6.60 for the Subaru one). Nobody claimed the Audi is Toyota reliable, but my advice to all, lease that A4 and return it after 4 years. Who cares if it looks good when it's a money pit?

    "Even the old A4 styling still looked sharp and modern when it was almost a decade old look"

    Again everybody is hung up on looks. I'm saying, in a few years, who cares. I'm bored of my A4 and its "coolness" isn't making me want to go out a drive it.

    Guys, I still like my A4, but having owned an Audi for five years, I didn't think it was worth it. High cost of maintenance after warranty, excessive number of trips to the dealer and lackluster performance for the dollar has soured the experience. I no longer recommend Audis to my friends. If I wanted a luxury sports sedan, I'd be marching down to my BMW/Lexus dealer. I realize I may be setting up myself for flames, but I've been there already (own an A4) and this is just the way I feel. I used to defend the A4 with all my might using all the same arguments you guys are using against the WRX, but in the end, I take it all back.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I respect the right to say whatever you want. Thank goodness we have that right. I clicked on your profile and your list of automobiles suggests broad experience. Your list of owned automobiles does not suggest any depth of experience with any brand. This does not invalidate your factual recount of your experience with your Audi.

    Your 94 Honda was stolen and you did not acquire another Honda -- my experience with Honda owners is that they are among the most loyal of owners. Perhaps your issues are really that you are bored easily by cars -- and this is no sin, in my book. I generally have two Audi's in my garage at one time -- and generally never miss a model year. But my reasons are the cars just keep getting better and better and less boring. My wife and I have violated this new model rule this year as we both have 2001 models, but her lease on her 2001 TT 225HP is up in November 2002 -- so we will be ordering a 2003 around July or August of 2002. My wife is on her second TT and swears that she'll be ordering another (2003) unless they make some radical change that upsets what she perceives is the sporting nature of the car.

    I will hopefully be ordering an S4 about one year from now to replace my 14 month old 2001 A6 4.2.

    Your comments are valid, no problem with them as they apply to YOU -- as are the comments of the rest of us valid and self-applicable. And, most of us love our Audi's, know they are not perfect and do not believe they are boring.

    I, for one, invite debate -- but I hope we can stop bashing Audi -- if you don't like them that is fine. But this board is generally for fans of the brand.

    Let's keep up a debate, even an argument -- and let's make certain that we also share our experiences and opinions as Warp Drive has done.
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    Regarding my stolen Honda: It was a great car, and I still recommend Accords to everybody as a reliable, fairly fun to drive family car.

    I'm saying just keep in mind that superior styling only goes so far. If you only drive your car at less than 8/10's most of the time, the Audi is a better car than the Subaru because it's got more amenities and plushness than the frisky WRX. But for those who place utmost value out of the driving experience for minimum bucks, the WRX is a better choice. The WRX rewards the driver who's willing to push the car hard. But if you can afford to repair/maintain/insure/buy an S4, then the S4 is a superior car to the WRX (as it should be).

    I don't really want to stir up more flames than necessary...just wanted to keep things in perspective from an experience of somebody who's owned one (and is buying a WRX)
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    Well I agree you can compare an A4 to a WRX, but not to this degree on this board. I understand there is a board "Audi A4 vs Subaru WRX" and most of the detailed comments about how these 2 cars differ can go there. I agree with Mark....this board is for the fans or potential buyers who want to learn more and to share their A4 experience.

    One more opinion, I think we should debate on topics, not individual comments. It won't go anywhere.

    Billy
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    So let's see, can I get a discount when I trade in my A4 for a Diablo??

    -Billy

    Attached from Reuters:

    VW Splits Car Brands Into Two Groups
    Fri Nov 23 14:45:20 2001 GMT

    FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Europe's biggest carmaker Volkswagen AG said on Friday it planned to split its car operations into two broad product groups, organized under the Audi and Volkswagen brands.

    The Audi brand group will include Audi, Seat and Lamborghini cars, while the Volkswagen group will cover VW, Skoda, Bentley and Bugatti, the group said in a statement following a meeting of the supervisory board.

    The heads of the two main brand groups will be responsible for global operations of each broader product group but individual brands will remain independent and retain its own character, the company said in a statement.

    VW said the supervisory board had agreed an investment program of some 31 billion euros ($27.24 billion) for the period between 2002-2006, of which 21 billion would be spent on products.

    The planned spending volume is slightly lower than the 65 billion mark ($29.20 billion) package set for the 2001-2005 period.
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    No more WRX propaganda from me.

    News flash: my dealer and Audi are willing to lower the price of the control arm repair to $1100 (from $2000) after I complained that it is my second set of control arms and how the control arms are poorly designed (lots of 97-98 owners complain about them at audiworld.com). Nice of the dealer to help out an disillusioned owner.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    ?

    I thought that VW & Audi were separate -- even tho Audi was "owned" by VW. What impact, if any will this have over the next few years -- I mean will I notice a difference?

    Currently, a VW Passat and an Audi A4 share many things -- does this mean this will stop?

    Is this like saying that General motors will separate Chevy and Buick (for example) into two separate car companies. A Chevy dealer may already feel that he/she is separate from Buick and that they compete with each other.

    I mention this only becuase of the Audi executive I lunched with in Ingolstadt who bristled at the notion that a Passat was an A5 -- "an Audi is not a Volkswagen" -- he huffed (and this was in January 2000!)

    Pardon my ignorance.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    WarpDrive, glad the dealer lowered that to $1100.....maybe you can call AoA and see if they're willing to pay for it cuz that's your 2nd set of control arms???

    Mark, as I and some AW'ers understand, yes that would mean they don't share parts anymore. I guess VW and Audi (JUST my guess) will be more like Chrysler and Mercedes at the present stage.....although I can say with some confidence that these two will share parts soon. Maybe a C-class having some Neon parts? Ouch.

    Billy
  • dej0dej0 Member Posts: 36
    Just my two cents on the A4 vs. Suburu thing. I have known people to have good and bad experiences with both brands. My '97 A4 is still a joy to drive and has not cost me much extra since the warranty ended 1.5 years ago. Of course, I go to the dealer tomorrow, so that could all change. I'm going for the ignition recall, so I don't expect anything extra.

    I will say I am not bored with this car. I am still glad to own it, and will probably replace it with another Audi. I really enjoy driving it. However, I am considering replacing my Miata (had a kid) with a BMW for two main reasons. I like cars and having two sedans of the same brand seems silly. There are lots of good cars out there now, maybe more than at any other time, and I want to experience that. The second reason is that my Audi dealer is 30 minutes away when there is no traffic and the BMW dealer is 10 minutes away when there is 'rush hour.' The Suburu is tempting, but I don't like the looks so much and thought the interior was cheap for 25K. Still, another good car and lots of fun to drive. I just like my current A4 better.

    Mark in Cinci --- I'm jealous, a TT and an S4 in the garage is just about what I would consider perfect. Do you like the A6? I would consider the A6 with the 2.7T, but it is a little out of my current price range. Maybe in a few more years.

    Ned
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    It is my third A6, I had a 1999 2.8 and a 2000 4.2 and now this 4.2. I had a 1995 S6 -- which is the most fun car I have ever owned (not the best, just the most fun -- the current 4.2 is better even than my 1997 A8 which I had for about 47,000 miles after the '95 S6 and before the '99 2.8.) The "problem" with these larger Audi's is -- well, they are too big. The new A4 is "just right" sized (for me).

    My Ideal garage would contain: A TT coupe for my wife and an S4 4 door coupe (?) for me (and an allroad for the "over the river and through the woods. . ." trips with two Shetland Sheep Dogs, one mother, one wife, luggage for four days and me). I drove the allroad extensively last month, and it seems competent in almost every way when compared with the 4.2 -- but it can haul more and can have a 6spd manual (woo woo). These three Audi's would be the best of all worlds (IMHO) -- now, too bad there is no S4 in the current body style -- yet. An S6 might do too -- and to save some money, the S6 avant might be a combination allroad and S4 all wrapped into one vehicle.

    In the mean time, my A6 4.2 with sport package is pretty much the best car I have ever had and the second most fun car (that '95 S6 was sooooo sweeeeeet!)
  • gymshoegymshoe Member Posts: 80
    Dang....I REALLY want your job! :)

    Any job that can allow you to have a TT and an S4 at the same time AND allow you to have time to post message to the board sounds like a primo job to me! hehehe...

    an S4 in the new body style would/will be sweet.

    Still waiting for the darn dealer to call me and tell me my car has arrived and they're gonna sell it to me at invoice! hahahahaha
    that would be something.
  • gymshoegymshoe Member Posts: 80
    Just got a call from the dealer.
    My car..... has arrived!
    It's apparently still on the truck or it was just rolled off the truck. So it's gotta go through all the prep and detailing...all the PDI garbage
    Worst estimate is it'll be ready by end of week?
    So probably...hopefully sooner!

    soon baby...soon.
    '02 Dolphin Gray 1.8T Quattro Tip - Ebony Interior
    Bose, Xenons, Sports, Premium, Roof, Heated Seats

    can't wait for it to put my maxima to shame.
    actually....it already has! :) hahah
    however...i think my maxy can still outrun both the 1.8 and 3.0 stock.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I am in IT consulting, the 17year old company that I own, like the rest of IT is in recession -- this year, UNFORTUNATELY, I have had more time on my hands -- not more money. I spend my days in e-mail and voice-mail jail. Waiting for calls and e-mails to be returned, chewing Tums and praying to Alan Greenspan for relief. While I suppose I could have a negative attitude about things, I actually am very optimistic about the economy, my company and our country.

    This board is relaxing and fun -- it pumps up my attitude (being the owner, means I am in SALES). And talking with other Audi fans is not a bad habit at all.

    So, yep, I have a primo job -- wanna trade for about 6 months? I need a break! :)

    And, I do NOT have an S4 -- I said "in my ideal garage" I would have an S4 and a TT.
  • fpereirafpereira Member Posts: 42
    It wouldn't make sense to me personally for VW and Audi brand cars to stop all parts-sharing. They're definitely not splitting into separate corporations, so if they're making similar cars it makes financial sense to share parts.
    Although somehow I think having a Bugatti share parts with VW would be a problem... :-)
    I read the announcement as simply a strategy, an organization and direction for the various brands, which is reflected somewhat by a modified org chart. For Audi, I think the strategy is a bit redundant, because Audi is already competing well in the "desirable sport" department.
  • gymshoegymshoe Member Posts: 80
    my first job out of college was in IT consulting with a big 5 firm.
    got let go along with most of my office earlier this year when the IT industry took a crapper.
    but it was a blessing in disguise.
    I realized I was sick of the flying, sick of the hotels, and sick of the super long work days.

    If i was still in consulting...my free time would be so limited, that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the A4 I'm getting this week!
    but...it was fun while i was doing it...in retrospect...I'm glad i'm out.

    More free time = More time in the A4!

    :)
  • gymshoegymshoe Member Posts: 80
    reading over in audiworld, there was a discussion on what the actual horsepower of the 1.8T on the A4 was.
    some say it's 170 as advertised, others say it's really a 180 hp.
    What do the good people of Edmunds' townhall think?
    is there even anything to debate about?
  • btr1btr1 Member Posts: 20
    Audiworld has a lot of master debaters.....
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    So does the Town Hall - so what do the good folks here think about the question? (Never mind the, um, almost double entendre!!). ;-)

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    $1100 is the price WITH Audi involved. Still not great though, but since the warranty is over, I'm happy to get anything since theoretically, they don't have to put out a cent.
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    There is definitely a possibility that Audi is underestimating the HP to avoid hurting V6 sales. The performance numbers suggest more than a 20HP gain over the original 1.8T. Personally I prefer the smoothness of the V6 myself. I can understand the turbo boxer 4 in a car like a WRX, but in the A4 I think the 6 seems more in line with its upscale image. And no need for turbo cool down also which is incovenient somewhat.
  • bluetranebluetrane Member Posts: 67
    I had an extended test drive in a 2002 1.8T/Tip today, and it is fair to say that my socks have been blown off. First of all, I had some concerns about the 1.8 not making enough power - I am no longer concerned. Power was plentiful enough, at least for the way I drive. My second concern was over room. After I adjusted the front seats to my liking (I am 6' even) I sat for a while in the back and although I would not want to drive to Florida that way, I was not uncomfortable. The lack of power seats doesn't seem to be a problem, as the manual adjusters were fine. Handling and cornering were superb, and the ride left me grinning. I have never had a car that I would characterize as "fun to drive". I think it is about time to change that. I'll be putting in an advance order for an A4 Avant later this week.
  • digiratidigirati Member Posts: 1
    I just purchased a 2002 Audi A4 3.0 automatic with the premium package, heated seats, leather, sunshades, xenon, and sunroof. The MSRP was $39K, but I managed to get my local dealer to drop $2K from the MSRP leaving him a $1,500 profit from invoice. I couldn't get any other dealer in Northern California to drop the price more than $500 off MSRP. I wasn't crazy about the color (Ming Blue) or paying for heated seats but it seemed like a very good deal for this part of the country. Something I didn't realize until a friend told me was that car dealers were obligated by law to show you the invoice if asked by the customer. I don't know if that's California specific. It sure did help in negotiating a fair price.

    Overall impressions: the interior with the leather option is extremely well appointed, and the gauges are logically laid out (although I wish the clock display was larger). I didn't necessarily want xenon lights, but now that I have them they are very nice. The Bose premium sound package is disappointing as the overall sound quality is not that stunning. The standard radio package comes with AM/FM/Cassette and 6 CD changer. I think the premium sound package is an upgrade to the speakers only.

    The car handles quite nimbly, and acceleration is very good. The tiptronic is interesting, but anyone who's used to driving a real stick will find it lacking in driving experience. I drove up to Tahoe over the weekend, and the Quattro system handled perfectly in the snow and rain. Although, I have to admit, that on dry road, the BMW 330i handles better and has a tighter feel.

    Only one bad experience thus far, and that is my rear tire lost its seal (no puncture) and basically deflated completely. Upon closer examination the tire looked defective (wish I had noticed it earlier). I brought the tire back to the dealership, and after threatening to return the car, they agreed to replace the tire.

    I also test drove the 1.8 turbo, and I have to say that as far as acceleration goes there's little difference between 4-cyl 1.8 turbo and the 6-cyl 3.0. The big difference is engine noise during acceleration and high speeds. The turbo is noticeably louder in the cabin than the V6.

    I would have considered purchasing the 1.8 turbo if they had offered leather and power seats as options. But for some reason (probably to get buyers to upgrade to the V6) Audi only offers these options on the V6 3.0.

    Overall, I love this car. The new body style is quite handsome, and I like the fact that I'm driving something other than the ubiquitous BMW.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    So you think the 1.8T Tip was fun huh? You should try the 5-speed......it's EXTRA fun :> Pair it up with the 17" wheel sports pkg and you are all set with Quattro.

    Billy
  • kk13kk13 Member Posts: 30
    My vote is for 170 hp and here's why:

    * From AudiWorld post Passat and A4 have the same orientation and coincidently the same hp as does the TT and Jetta

    * Orientation would effect the exhaust manifold which could easily account for 10 hp

    * Any benefit for the TT of having 10 additional hp would be less than the detriment from the Jetta having 10 extra hp. My guess it that more people cross shop the Jetta and the A4 than the A4 and the TT.

    * Any additional V6 sales would be less than lost A4 sales to 325i or other competitors.

    * Automakers work so hard to get additional performance from engines I can't imagine giving up the ability to market 10 additional hp.
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    Just curious - what have the various chip tuners measured for output when they do their "before and after" chip install comparisons? Don't most include graphs of HP and torque that show both stock and modified engines?
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    I think most charts include before-and-after hp and torque at the wheels, NOT at the flywheel. The hp and torque numbers an auto manufacturer claims are actually at the flywheel. As I understand there's no direct way to measure it there. It's just an estimation how much % of power it lost through all the components before the wheels. As in the new Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, Nissan at first claimed 180hp. However Import Car Magazine measured only a pathetic 140hp or so at the wheel. THey said there's no way it lost that much power from the flywheel to the wheels. Nissan later reduced the claim to 175hp but still a far cry from 140hp. In comparison they said an Acura Integra GS-R claimed 170hp at the flywheel and 150hp at the wheels. These numbers are all from my memory so please don't flame me if I didn't get them 100% right :>

    However I heard from credible sources that the A4 1.8T engine puts out 180hp, even on the pre 2001 ones without the little red slash next to the "T" on the trunk. Reasons for being not to flame the TT owners, not to pull potential 2.8 buyers, and to pay less taxes. Too bad we just can't take our Quattro cars to the dyno cuz I think the normal dynos can't do AWD cars. Maybe the FWD owners can do us a favor??

    Billy
  • dej0dej0 Member Posts: 36
    Hi Gang,
    I had to go to the dealer today for the ignition recall on my '97 A4. I test drove the new 3.0 with quattro, manual transmission and sports package. I thought it was much quicker and tighter than my old car. No surprise there. I did not find the ride too harsh on the highway. It was definately quieter and the engine noise is very, very different. More of a throatier, growling kind of noise. I liked the new layout of the dash. I was a little leary of the ball on the stick. The 6 speed was nice, but not too much better shifting than the '97. In other words, they still need to work on this a little bit. It had leather, but to be honest, I did not think it was that much better than the leatherette. All in all, I liked it better than my '97, and I really love my '97. The guy on the lot was VERY intersted in me turning in my '97, says they cannot keep the used ones on the lot. They had about 3 or 4 of the '02s and several more 01's still on the lot.
    I did not drive the S4, but I did drive an A6 3.0 just to give it a try. It was not as fun or sporty, but I did like it better than I thought. I do not like automatics, but it would redline and the quattro worked as well as it did on the A4. I liked it better than my mom's Lexus. The sales guy told me the were having trouble moving the S4s due to the new body style. He hinted they would be willing to bargain on one of those. I did not ask too much about the new A4 in terms of pricing. I have a few other cars I want to drive before I buy. If the dealer was close by, the A4 would probably be tops, especially with the 4 year warranty.

    Have a good one.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    A friend of mine test-drove the '02 1.8T Q auto and the '02 1.8T front-track CVT. He was very impressed with how smooth the CVT was but he came back thinking the 1.8T Q auto was faster. I have driven neither transmission but the front-track is about 250 lbs lighter and the CVT is supposed to be as fast as the manual, so I'm guessing the front-track CVT would be a full second faster than the Quattro auto (both 1.8T). I have noticed on this board that anyone who has tested the 1.8T came out thinking it was plenty fast - typically, as fast as the older 2.8 and almost as fast as the 3.0. I think a lot of this is due to the turbo effect: the car pulls very hard at the point the turbo kicks in giving you the false sensation that you are accelerating extremely fast. I have not seen any official 0-60 and 0-100 numbers for our '01 1.8T Q manual but I'd be guessing it's around 7.5 sec 0-60. It may be quicker than our 325i manual for a brief moment when the turbo kicks in and glues you to the seat. Before you know it, though, the RPM needle is up near the redline and you have to shift wasting precious time (fast as you shift). I drive both cars on regular basis and I know that the 325i is definitely faster but the 1.8T FEELS a bit faster at the point when the turbo kicks in. All I am trying to say is that the 1.8T is a great little engine but make no mistake about it - the 3.0 will be a lot faster. It may not feel like it because of its smoothness, though.
  • vicsa4vicsa4 Member Posts: 5
    I'll be picking up my '02 1.8T Quattro, Dolphin Gray, on Friday!
    I ordered the optional 16-inch tires.
    However, I like the look of the 17-inch wheels and the supposed improved performance of the summer tires.
    I'm considering buying a set of the 17-inch wheels & tires and mounting them for summer driving. Will this improve the car's performance even though I didn't order it with the sports suspension?
  • gymshoegymshoe Member Posts: 80
    I'm told my car is ready tomorrow! So I'm gonna go pick it up during lunch! Whoohoo!
    02 1.8T Quattro Tip, Dolphin Gray/Ebony interior.

    I'm sure 17 wheels and tires will help the performance. As for suspension...don't sweat it too much. The standard suspension for the 2002 models was the sports suspension for the 2001's.

    Don't you love the Dolphin Gray color?!
  • tcasboytcasboy Member Posts: 214
    I have a question for the forum about the brake dust that clings to the front wheels. I remember some earlier discussions about it and after having put about 1500 miles on my new 2001 A4 1.8 I can't believe how bad the dust is, particularly in front (of course). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody had tried a different brand of brake pads that reduced the dust or those brake covers that claim to stop the dust without overheating the brakes. I've washed the car several times and Audi really ought to be ashamed for putting out a product that covers itself in dust like that, its really bad. Any info on some aftermarket pads or covers would be most appreciated. Thanks.
  • kk13kk13 Member Posts: 30
    I heard that waxing the wheels helps reduce the amount of brake dust that accumulates.
  • winedocwinedoc Member Posts: 3
    I am seriously thinking about getting the new 2002 Audi A4. I live in the SF bay area. Would anyone out there recommend a reputable dealership or a dealer. Thanks for your help in advance
Sign In or Register to comment.