Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

btroy

My Owner's manual supplement for Police/Fleet vehicles describes the frame as follows:


"Heavy-Duty Frame

Extra reinforcements in the frame on the police vehicle are designed to strengthen structural members so that they can withstand severe duty use."


This doesn't really get into engineering specifics. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that they use the same P74 frame and weld on a few bars diagonally between frame members here and there. Something similar to strut tower braces, only there is nothing visible by opening the hood. They probably want to create the impression that there is a totally unique frame, but I doubt it. If we could get the details, I bet you could upgrade a P74 frame to a P71 frame. If you look at the weight of a P71 vehicle vs. a P74, it is lighter, so I doubt the entire frame is made of thicker steel.

Kinley, I agree. If you can get a new CV for 20G, how can you find a much better value than that?

Prodigal, yeah that sounds like a good estimate. I dropped about 2G so far and I think (hope) I'm done for a good while. Never burned a drop of oil until last oil change, then suddenly started going down on the stick. Hopefully it's just a problem with the drain plug or something like that. If so, I think I'm in for a few smooth years.

bthomp

That is something annoying about the automotive business. Not enough actual information. I was having an interesting conversation with a motor head friend of mine. We were comparing the merits of a 5.4 (gasp and larger) in the CV/GM line. What he said made a lot of sense. A larger displacement engine will (in theory) give you more low end torque, which is needed to get a 4000lb car up to speed. By making that torque available at low rpm, you could increase the rear gearing to save some gas. The 1/4 mile time would not be worse, maybe even better. Here FORD is trying to push the DOHC continental motor which is also a spinner. I wonder if anyone has replaced the 4.6 with a 5.4 yet. It would be very interesting to see the track times as well as the fuel rate differences. All of the mods that significantly bring the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times down, involve the use of a supercharger which makes up for the lower displacement. Anyone have some thoughts on this? Why is FORD sticking with the 4.6 and not going to the 5.4 at least for the PIs?

btroy

Many will say Ford won't use the 5.4 because they need their entire 5.4 production for their trucks which are in high demand. To me, this sounds believable, but they *could* convert the 4.6 production line over to producing 5.4s and then they would have plenty for trucks and CVs. I think another reason is the CAFE standards that Ford has to meet. If they increase engine size in the CV, the average fuel economy of their fleet goes down and they face fines.

Also they may feel that upping displacement may please a few customers, but the typical CV customer wouldn't benefit, and might be swayed to buying an Avalon or Impala because the price would go up and the mileage would go down. It's not like this car is marketed as a hot-rod (even though some of us would like it to be). Just look at the people appearing in the advertising photographs. They represent the target market.

Now they could probably go with a different engine in the PI and exempt those from the CAFE numbers, but there are cost benefits to having a uniform production run. I think there are plans in the works to provide a stronger engine for cops in a year or two. The 4.6 DOHC?

For everyone else there's always the upcoming Marauder.

kinley

Goodbye 94 TC. I've always wondered whey they put a Ford engine in a Lincoln anyway. At least the TC could be upscaled with the old Mark VIII powerplant, but NOooooo, "We can sell them just as they are." If only the DTS were RWD.

dhmacarthur

Have read this column with interest while I was car shopping. Just bought a 2000 CV. Great value, it's a base model with the P&H package, CD player, power seat. All for slightly above $21,000 before taxes. I traded a 94 GM which was bought new. The GM had 94K miles, burned oil, had the ABS go out, and all four window regulators broke at one time or another. Not really all that bad, but it also had the usual transmission problem. Also, the "check engine" light came on at times if the car was driven over 65MPH. Had the EGR valve replaced last summer, helped only a little. I have had worse cars. For 6+ years & 94K miles I enjoyed the room, comfort & power the car had. This year, a local Ford dealer had 5 base CVs with the P&H package. The car is a bit plainer than the GM, but handles much better. The difference was a pleasant surprise. My spouse complained about the hard ride, but I like the control and absence of wallowing and lean on turns. -The 94 GM had a keyed lockout for the inside trunk release. I always left it locked, since the car had keyless entry. The new ones have just the plain button on the door, even the 2000 GM; I put a hand-held alarm/keyless entry (non factory) on the new CV, hope that will be even safer.

bthomp

Hope you enjoy your new ride! I have 33k on my 98CV with P+H and no problems. Granted they're mostly highway miles, but these cars are workhorses.

cebuano

I also send you congratulations. My nearly two month old 2000 CV LX P/H has already racked up 4400 miles from two long interstate trips. Still running like a charm. Enjoy!

tjf2000

Good luck wih your 200CV, I've got a '98GM with the P/H package, it will be two years this month and has 95,000 miles on it. Only one small problem to date... had to have the brake rotors turned twiced, it does not does take much more than one or two stops from higway speeds to get them out of round. Other than that no problems. Will keep this one for one more year and let it go with about 150k on it. Great car to date.

golfnut5

I recently purchased a 2000 GM and noticed at speeds of 40 to 55 mph a slight thumping feel under my feet while driving. This is something that I feel and don't hear. I think this probably is air flowing under my car. Has anybody out there noticed this sensation on a GM or CV? I have about 5500 miles on my GM and thus far a very satisfied owner.

jerry78

This week I picked up my CV ordered in Jan. A long wait, but man what a car! My old car was an 87 T-Bird which I kept too long. I have a 30 mile highway commute (each way) to work which is now really pleasant. It's a reverse commute (out bound in the morning) and the traffic is really fast. In the CV I really don't worry about the insane Boston traffic. The car is dark blue and I'm Irish (51 yr.), which around here means I look like a cop. This is good! If some one hesitates cutting me off for 5 seconds, that's a bonus. The bulk and handling (P&H package) of this car make you feel really secure. My understanding is that under the sheet metal the components are the same as the Lincoln Town Car (except the town car frame gives 2" of extra rear seat leg room). So too me the CV is a fantastic value. It's certainly a quiet ride. One question, is the EPA mileage tested for 55 mph? What about at 70? I didn't get the digital dash. What do the folks with it notice for the instantaneous mileage at these speeds? Of course, considering all the repairs on the T-Bird lately and considering what a great car the CV is, a few mpg's don't matter all that much. I'm still curious though.

cebuano

That's about the speed range I'm going before my CV finally shifts into 4th under moderate acceleration. Could it be that you're feeling the transmission doing a funny shift from 3rd to 4th?

I've noticed that the shift between 3rd & 4th in my 2000 CV behaves differently depending upon my rate of acceleration. Slow acceleration feels normal. Moderate acceleration can sometimes produce an odd feel when shifting from 3rd to 4th, where it begins to go into 4th but "changes its mind" and goes back to 3rd temporarily. I'm using a steady foot on the pedal during this time. A few seconds later it shifts into 4th and stays there. I wonder if that's the thump you're talking about. Other times the shift from 3rd to 4th is gradual - almost too gradual. Anybody else experience this?

golfnut5

Cebuano, the thumping feel that I notice is not from the transmission shift. I believe now that the thumping feel is coming from an exhaust pipe. After looking under my GM, I noticed that an exhaust pipe is directly under the drivers floor board, again this is something that I feel and do not hear. I hope this feel is normal, it does not bother me, only seems strange.

I noticed that the shift between 3rd & 4th happens on my GM as you described in your post. I guess this is a combination of the cars computer telling when to shift and the rate of acceleration.

dhmacarthur

I noticed on my 2000 CV that there is a thump right after I start the car. It has ABS & air suspension, but no Traction control (I like the limited slip differential better). Never heard or felt that thump on my 94 GM with ABS. The shift points on the CV are much lower, overdrive is engaged at 27-28 mph instead of at 37-38 mph on the 94 GM. When the CV is cold, and shifts into overdrive, the engine doesn't run as smooth as it usually does. It almost feels like it's "lugging" in a gear too high for the speed. Not really much of a problem yet. Also, the odometer lighting on my car is BRIGHT and slightly annoying to me as well. Still a great car. I like the fact that I can travel at 30 mph and still be in overdrive. Should help gas mileage. I have mashed the accelerator from a toll booth stop, and the transmission had quick and crisp shifts. It reminded me of the old Chrysler Torqueflight from the 60s!! Much better than I was used to in the 94 GM.

prodigalson

I have contacted a lot of Ford Internet dealers and it seems most use the following formula for giving price quotes on new CVs:

invoice x 1.01 [i.e. 1% above invoice]+ $655 (delivery) - $1,500 (rebate)

Has anyone who bought a 2000 CV recently gotten a better deal than this? How??

Still, I think the Crown Base is an excellent buy at this price, and according to my math, fully loaded it would not break $22k. And to think 3 months ago I was thinking seriously of getting a Camry! I shudder to think of how I would have reacted if I had spent $27 on a Camry and found out afterwards that I could have gotten a CV and still had money left over to pay for SEVEN YEARS OF GAS!!!! I would have gone postal at the Toyota dealership. Why is the CV such a well-kept secret?

An observation about the new vs. used issue: after compiling more than 10 pages of price quotes for slightly to heavily used CVs, I have come to the conclusion that we the customers get burned both ways. I have seen used 99 Base CVs with almost 20K miles and NO OPTIONS listed at $20,000 or MORE! So much for the theory that the original owner absorbed the depreciation--sure he did (when he sold it to the dealer), but so will the next guy (when he buys it from the dealer). A $21.5 fully loaded 2000 CV Base is hard to beat unless you're buying a used car directly from a private seller.

I have seen some real deals on the Internet for 99s and 98s ($12-15K), but when I inquire, I am invariably given the line "Oh, that car is no longer available at our However, we do have a few retired rentals for $19,999…" And, of course, they are all either red or green--two colors that always get left on the lot for some reason.

I congratulate all of those in this forum who were wise enough to practically steal a new CV, and I hope that I too will be brave enough to stare down the fear of initial depreciation and show myself some appreciation!

dcouture

i'm totally new to this forum but seriously consdering a 2000 GM or CV; would like to know if any significant differences between the two (including price) and what owners are experienceing in gas mileage;currently own a 94 T-bird; extermely poor handling in the snow(fishtailing); will i experince the same problem with a GM ?

golfnut5

Dhmacarthur, I noticed the lower shift points on my 2000 GM versus my 1995 GM. I am sure this is done to increase gas mileage, although I am not sure there is much savings. The brightness of the odometer light was posted on this site about a month ago, apparently all 2000 CV & GM have this tendency. The noise that you hear after you start could be the ABS self test. A self-diagnostic test is performed when the engine is started and when the vehicle reaches 14 mph, you may feel some brake pedal pulsation and hear some noise. I wonder if the auto engineers pay attention to detail as close as consumers do.

cebuano

I got my 2000 CV using autobytel and the fleet manager I bought it from didn't give me any percentage figure. He just gave me a flat $300 over invoice which I calculate to be about 1.18% over invoice.

cebuano

Welcome to the forum! When it comes to choosing between a GM and CV, I think it really depends on which one looks better to you. They are both basically the same car coming from the same St. Thomas, Ontario factory but with different exterior trim and emblems. The GM is a few hundred bucks more but I haven't figured out why. Someone else here may be able to explain that one. As far as mpg goes, I have yet to do an accurate measurement but one time I figured I got approximately 19 mpg during 25% city & 75% highway driving. That's with the lower geared performance/ handling package.

Hacksaw

My 98 CV is in the shop for some body work-- a van clipped the rear light and side panel. $3000+. Ouch. Glad it's not outta my pocket.

I'm stuck with a 98 Bonneville rental for the next week and oh how I miss my CV. I haven't driven the new 2000 Bonny, but I am so glad I didn't buy the 98 model. The gas mileage is better, but just about everything else is much worse.

I can't wait to get my CV back. I bought it in the beginning of 1998, and to this day it's a purchase I feel 100% comfortable with. I got it at invoice, which I feel was more than fair, and it's been worth every penny since.

I've bought a lot of things in my life only to look back and think "damn, I overpaid" or second guess myself into thinking something else would have been better-- not so with the CV. 62,000 miles over 2 years and ownership has been complteley pleasant with no regrets or second thoughts.

Sure, the CV has some shortcomings. But you won't touch anything like it for less than $40k. I just can't say enough good things about this car.

btroy

dhmacarthur, my trip odometer is a bit brighter
than the rest of my instruments, but not enough to
bother me. Maybe that's because I prefer my panel
to be dimmed down about half way. You might try
dimming your panel a bit and see if that makes it
look more evenly lighted. Most people leave the
panel at full-brightness, but I think lowering it a bit doesn't hurt its visibility and helps
preserve my night-vision.

I'd have to agree with those of you that said that buying one of these cars new is a great value. The new ones are so cheap (relatively) that it almost doesn't make sense to buy used. If you make any reasonable assumption on the number of miles the car will last and divide that into the purchase price, your lowest cost per remaining mile is probably in a new car. Plus you get a long warranty, new car perfection, several malfunction-free years, etc.

BTW, I rented a Chevy Cavalier this weekend, and wow, what a difference. I felt like I was scooting around in a child's toy. Not that a Cavalier is even close to being a comparable vehicle, but there was a time not long ago when I owned little cars like that and would have been happy with a Cavalier. Now I am permanently spoiled and could never go back to the toy cars.

erickool

I am considering a Mercury Grand Marquis, but discovered that the Ford Crown Victoria is the same car with some minor front grille and rear lights exterior differences.

Are there any considerations I need to think about when making a choice?

Price?
Engine?
Service?
Warranty?
Reliability?

Any help / commnets / personal war stories are appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric Kool
eric.kool@home.com

kinley

get the Performance/Handling Package and the CD player. Who buys tapes these days? ABS is good as is the traction device. Each car will take you far. Have fun!

btroy

Think of them as styling variations on the exact same car. Whichever one you like the look of is the better choice. In addition to the obvious cosmetic differences, GM has cornering lights and rear turn signals that use the same bulb as the brake light. CV has separate amber rear turn signals. I think the CV looks sportier and more youthful. It also has more resemblance to a police car, which is a feature that has been discussed extensively above in this topic.

dhmacarthur

I looked at both cars for several months. In addition to what has been posted before, the interior in the GM has a more expensive look. The CV door panels are plainer. But, most GMs I looked at, especially at around 20K, did not have ABS. It's standard on the CV, making it a better buy. A GM equipped with ABS and the factory keyless entry has an MSRP of around $24,200. Not a stripped car, but not heavily optioned either. For the same price, you can get a base CV with the Perf. & Handling package, add a power seat to bring that in line with the standard power seat on the GM. The P & H package is fantastic, but hard to find on the base GM GS. If you find one (I saw only one GS with it), you usually have a list price of over 25K, or have to pay for the GM LS and several other expensive packages which boost the list price up to 27K. That usually includes a leather interior, which I did not want to have here is S. Florida. The CV LX is about the same. If you can find (or order) a base CV with the P & H package it's a very good buy. A GM or CV without that is just another comfortable car. The perf. package makes driving much more enjoyable, not to mention safer. Traction control is also hard to find on either, but I like the limited slip differential better. The wheels on the perf. package look great, but the rear air suspension is a very practical and worthwhile addition.

timbotimbo

Would very much like to own a new CV or GM, but have my heart set on my next car having a sunroof. Does anyone have opinions and/or knowledge concerning having one installed by the dealer. I know it can be done, but would I be setting myself up for future trouble.

weltron

I also researched what to do as far as buying a CV or GM. I do like the new ones, but I really did not see that much difference from 95 to 00 to justify the price difference. I know 98 and up have the watts rearend and beefier rotors and brakes. You have to consider though that Ford added 200 pounds of weight when the 98 models were introduced. I decided to look for a used one before I spent the money for a new one. Several months looking and I found what I was looking for. A 95 GM LS Maroon with maroon leather interior,P & H, digital guages, climate control,both seats power with power lumbar on both, good looking alloys, ABS and traction control, and not a door ding on it, with 38,000 for $10,000. This sounded like a much better deal than $20,000 on up for a new one. Now about the differences in the CV compared to the GM. The 95 to 97 GM have the same body sides as the new CV and GM. I also noticed while I was looking that Ford decided not to use chrome on the gearshift stock and the ignition surround after 95. The GM does have a much nicer looking interior. I know these are small things, but hey where are you going to spend most of your time, looking at the car or sitting in it driving. The basic body style of both has been around 8 years now so I also thought of the possibility of Ford doing major changes soon. I have been through that before and you talk about major depriciation after a major change(ouch!!!) This is just my opionion, but I think I made the wisest choice (and I love my almost new car!)

erickool

Thank you for your response. Appreciate the insight and help.

Regards,

Eric

kinley

I admire and agree with your thinking. I trust you spent the savings, ($10,000) in the market by purchasing an agressive growth stock. The stock's appreciation will enable you to have a 00 model in five years. Good going with a very good deal. I have a 95 T Bird, loaded, 33,000 miles and $10,000 would NOT get it away from me. A 95 GM for 10 is a real bargain.

jmurphy3

I just looked at a 1997 GM LS with 27,000 miles at a Ford dealership yesterday. The car was impeccable, fully loaded, silver with silver color leather interior, alloy wheels and digital dash. The asking price is $15,900. I have been reading this site for the past month and it seems that everyone has had a great experience with the Grand Marquis or CV. Also, there have been great tips on car maintenance and performance. So, I thought I would ask the experts - is $15,900 a fair price or how much would be reasonable? Does anyone know of anything I should be aware of with a 1997 GM? I own a 1992 Mercury Topaz which has been nothing but trouble since I purchased it - I've paid for the car twice over in repairs and there is only 56,000 miles on it! It is in the shop again with a busted water pump. After reading the posts on this site, it seems that the GM is a very reliable car.

I also contacted Enterprise Rent a Car and they have a 2000 GM GS with 22,000 miles at a non-negotiable price of $17,000. Has anyone ever purchased a car from Enterprise? Is this a better deal than the 1997? Or should I wait and see if I can get a 2000 GM from a dealer in September when the 20001's come in? Will the 2000's go down much? I can't go higher than $17K and I was offered only $100 for my car on trade-in.

Is there really a big difference in performance between the GS and LS? All responses will be greatly appreciated.

bthomp

One thought to consider is the huge amount of wear and tear rental vehicles go through during their childhood years. Their break-in period consisted of probably 3-4 different drivers a month, all who had nothing better to do than test the engine. The GM/CV are heavy duty cars, and they can take that kind of punishment, but unless you get a really low price consider their past life as uncertain at best. I rent cars anytime I'm on travel, and though I'm not a maniac, I do test them to see what they can do...As to performance, the P+H package is almost always a "must have" coming from us younger drivers, and I think that almost anyone can appreciate the better handling that comes with it. If you are just using the vehicle to go to church with, you won't miss it though. The stock handling will be sufficient for most of those uses and the slower 0-60 will also be overlooked by the same crowd. Excerise the P+H option only if you are into driving a car, and not just looking at the car as an A-B transport. The GM caters to that taste as well. The younger CV crowd seem to like the plainer look of the CV. I bought my CV at $100 less than dealer invoice through a pre-negotiated AAA rate. I hate to haggle and a fully loaded CV with P+H, ABS, Traction Control, leather seats, keyless entry, and ANALOG gauges (I will never go digital for my speedo), was 24,240. I was stuck with Black for a color, but when she's cleaned up, she's impressive. If you are a AAA member, check and see what they have negotiated, you might be surprised. $100 for your trade-in? Ouch!

bthomp

I find it interesting the different age groups these cars attract. From young bloods full of piss and vinegar (or wind and smoke) to our senior drivers, who just want a softer luxury ride. It's these kind of differences that make this topic interesting to read.

johnbono

Well, I've done some testing, and what they say is true--in a rental car, you CAN go anywhere a Jeep can go.

golfnut5

Earlier this week I drove my 2000 GM from Pennsylvania to Charlotte, North Carolina and got 28.5 MPG with A/C on. This was mostly interstate driving except for eat and pee stops. Although I was riding alone, I did have luggage, golf clubs and about 100 pounds of other junk. I was pleased with this since I only have about 5500 miles on my GM. I used to own a 1995 GM and at times got 30.5 MPG with A/C on. On my 95 the big increase in gas mileage came at about 20,000 miles.

prodigalson

Crown Vic veterans, do I have questions for you!

Question 1: A dealer told me that the $1,500 rebate on CVs will probably still be in effect this summer, but that he didn't know if the 2001 model would be rebated when it first comes out. Does anyone know if new model CVs are usually rebated when they first hit the showrooms?

Question 2: Two Internet dealers have offered me the 2000 CV base with all the options at invoice less the $1,500 invoice. This seems to be a fair offer. Would it be risky to pass this up and wait for the 2001 CV which may be rebateless?

And question 3: If I should have to order either car, how long does it usually take for the car to show up and do dealers usually ask for some up-front money?

ANY thoughts on this suject would be greatly appreciated!

prodigalson

I drove from North Carolina to Iowa in 1987 in a green 1972 Maverick. My father bought it for $150, a discount resulting from an altercation between a fifth of liquor, a preacher's son and a telephone pole. It limped into Ames only to die that winter when the wind chill sank to 50 below.

At least it was cheaper than an airline ticket, and I got to see the Mississippi River and Carl Sandburgh's birthplace, among other things. Before it died I used it to take my wife-to-be to the airport (I popped the question two years later).

If a CV can give me half of what that Maverick gave me, I'll be a very happy and loyal CV owner!

kinley

IMO the 00 GM GS from Enterprise is the buy. Ford will guarantee the car under the warranty, you can dicker on the price of the extended warranty and just think, all those salesmen and engineers having driven the car before you have broken it in. Whatever was going to break or quit on it, has done so by now. BTW the 97 is the last year of the old body style while the 00 is the current style for a few more years. Con Enterprise into detailing the unit including a tire rotation for you if they are firm on 17k. The sooner you get the new one the sooner the fun, remembering there aren't any luggage racks on hearses!

andor1

On my 1985 GM, I just spent $650 for a new water pump, master cylinder, emergency brake cable and Timing belt. Wondering what's next in terms of repairs and how far do I go $$ wise before I lay out the money for a new GM or CV.My apprehension grows daily in how long before the next big buck repair will come along. I was hoping to buy near the end of the year. Still betwixt and between on the GM or CV. Ford dealer is much closer to home. Your comments or advice would help greatly

prodigalson

Andorl: The CV finished 9th in the JD Power initial quality study in 1998. The GM was 20th. The CV finished ahead of the BMW 7 series, Infiniti Q45 and 130, Mercedes C class, Jaguar XK8, Porsche 911, and Lexus GS (the GM finished ahead of most of these German and Japanese masterpieces also). Go with the less expensive CV unless you like the looks of the GM more and are willing to pay the extra bucks. I was faced with the same decision, but the CV base with all the options is an unbeatable value. You can use the extra money you'll save on not getting the LX to tint the windows, pay for six months of insurance, install a CB and scanner, and have gas money left over for two or three years of driving!

Everyone: If I get the steel road wheels in place of the alloys that come with the H & P on a CV, should I expect the price to drop?

richdean1

OK...I have taken my 90 GM Sedan 5.0 to two different shops and both said "we can't find anything wrong". My car just keeps getting worse...cold..warm..it doesn't matter-if my foot is not on the gas at least in inch down on the peddle..it will stall. I have put the "Super" gas in a few times, changed the plugs and wires(it runs alot smother now) distribitor cap/roter, air filter, put fuel cleaner in the car...then changed the filter, and also had a shop clean the "feul throttle body" (which did help for a month or so) but now it still stalls....and its just getting worse....please help!!! RichWood888@yahoo.com

dangelo

First of all, I'm greatful for this townhall page and everyone writing their experiences with the new CV and GM.

Like everyone else, I love the 2000 CV and am currently shopping around for the best price.

Probably unlike most of you, I drive a 1997 CV every night at my job (police officer). I have noticed some things on my patrol car that I want to know if you have experienced in your car as a daily vehicle. My 1997 CV has 78000 miles on it. I have noticed on these models when the transmission goes into overdrive, there is some slipping which makes a loud noise (many of our 1997 patrol cars have this problem). I'm sure none of your CV endure the punishment that we put on these cars.

I applaud Ford for improving the brakes immensely between the 97-99 models. The 99 and 2000 models stop on a dime.

It appears that most of you have had an excellent experience with your CV and GM. I don't want to correllate my patrol car's problems to that of a vehicle that I would drive everyday.

Your input would be appreciated.

jscheide

I love my 84, It's a Pichup, a sport ute amd a Minivan all in one.
It can haul 8x4' sheetrock without having to buy a cap to keep it dry. then
turn around and seat 6 adults and 2 children in
confort. It goes through the snow better than any
frontdrive I have driven. It has enough traction
and ground clearence to go offroad to get to my
fishing hole, a 2wd pickup wouldn't make it. It
handles very well, Gets up to 70 mph going up
a hill onto the interstate quickly, and Gets 22mpg
on the highway. Best of all after 16 years it hasn't needed any major repairs. The AOD trans has
allways been a little quirky though, doesn't shift
when I think it should, of cource I just changed the fluid for the first time (it was like motor oil)

olddominion

I just purchased a new GM at invoice minus a 2,000 rebate, including an additional 500 rebate which is in effect in my area (Virginia) through the end of the month. After shopping around and reading all the comments in this room, I decided on the GM, and the more I drive it the more I love it! I got it on the 16th of May. Thanks for the advice, and I want to keep in touch with this room. Lovin my new GM.

andor1

How did you manage that deal? It seems like an excellent price.I live in Mass and wonder what's available around here I haven't started the buying process yet because I dislike getting hassled by salespeople.But I'm very interested in the deal you got If I could get the same kind of deal I might jump for a car now rather that later in the year as originally planned.My other problem is that I just finished with two college tuitions so I would be looking for probably a four or five year deal

olddominion

Andor1: I have been shopping for a GM for several months, and visited a local dealer who informed me that there would be an additional rebate beginning may 19 and running through the end of the month. The additional 500$ rebate brought the total rebate to 2,000$. That dealer also said that she would sell me the car at invoice, and dropped the processing fee. the best I could do elsewhere was 1% above invoice, and also that particular dealership was not participating in the extra 500$ rebate, because the dealer has to put up half out of their holdback. They did not have the car on the lot I wanted, but got one the next morning out if NC, and I took delivery that day. I went in on a Monday and took delivery on Tuesday evening. Love the car. Happy shopping.

dhmacarthur

I had a 94 GM which I bought new and just traded on a 2000CV with the P&H package. The new car is great. The transmission is crisp and shifts with no slippage. I noticed that the transmission on the 94 GM always slipped under hard acceleration. When the car had 4000 miles, the dealer serviced the trans. under warranty because it had the "washboard effect" when shifting into 3rd gear. The Mercury dealer told me that the problem was caused by a problem with a transmission additive used at the factory. Who knows?? Later on at 38,000 miles, the trouble started again and the torque converter was replaced under the extended warranty. At about 80,000 miles, the trans. started making a loud bang when downshifting out of overdrive into 3rd gear. Only sometimes. I had the trans flushed and refilled and that helped for awhile. The problem was never completely solved and usually showed up when the car was hot and had been driven for about an hour or so at speeds over 50mph. It was very annoying, but the trans. worked OK until the car was traded at 94K miles. I solved the problem by buying a new car. I suspect that the trans. always had some slippage and was never entirely right. I realize that only by comparison with the new CV. Good luck shopping for a new CV. The P&H package is worth holding out for. While driving home with the new car, I noticed a big improvement in handling, and the 94 GM had just had new shocks!

bthomp

You need a little more description as to the actual noise your 97s are making. I drive a 98 P74 P+H. Around town I always keep it out of overdrive (O/D) based upon discussions with other police officers. Apparently these cars, like any other modern car, has the overdrive gear step in at about 50mph or sometimes lower to increase fuel economy. When the car cycles back and forth you wear out the transmission bands. I also like the tendancy of the car to slow down when I take my foot off the throttle (engine braking) instead of gliding forward. It reportably saves on the brakes too. A group of OEM engineers make two modules that address this problem. One is set to cycle the O/D off every starting cycle and the other is programmable to cut O/D out below customer set speeds. Your 97 sounds like the 3-4 speed bands have taken abuse. I have the URL somewhere around if you would like your maintenance personnel to look at it. All of the above is under the assumption that the noise was from the transmission slipping.

bthomp

Just bought two pairs front and rear from copcars.com for $70 each. I have waited two years and after a lot of homework and correspondance with others I have made the leap. After they are installed I post the differences. The main reason I'm changing out the regular P+H shocks is to reduce wind wander. A car this size and weight shouldn't wander as much as it does with the wind. Hopefully this will reduce that problem. Everyone who has installed them in place of the original shocks say they help tremendously.

cebuano

What do you mean by "washboard effect?" Is that the same as tranny shudder?

5spd

By looking under the hood, how can one tell whether a CV / GM has traction control or not ?

dhmacarthur

Tranny shudder sounds the same as "washboard effect". That term was used by the Mercury dealer. After the torque converter was replaced, the shudder never happened again, only later on a strong bang could be felt and heard on the OD to 3rd downshift. That plus the "Check Engine" light coming on at higher speeds made me distrust the car at 94K miles. Most of the time, though, it was just put gas in it and go. Far from the worst car I ever had - that was a 1988 Eagle Premier. -I just looked under the hood of my new CV and noticed that the power steering reservoir has cooler lines to the radiator. Nice, especially in the Summer in S. Florida.