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Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager



  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    A Dodge salesman told me it was the steering column.

  • keygokeygo Posts: 38
    My van started with the vibration right as soon as I got it from the dealer. I did know it was a problem so I was watching for it but I really think I couldn't have missed it. If it is / was a fluid problem, shouldn't it have been fine to begin with? Thanks-
  • davemmdavemm Posts: 33
    Does the 2002 Caravan sport (not grand) offer traction control? Standard/option, I've looked at a few online sites that state specs but never see traction control mentioned.
  • lsherlsher Posts: 29
    I got delivery of a '02 T&C LXi AWD two days ago. I've now driven more than 400 miles and can report, unequivocally, that there is no 2100 rpm resonance.

    One big surprise: Despite having the 29U package, it came through with no power seat for the passenger. I complained to the dealer "loudly," pointing out that not only had this feature driven my choice of models but I had specifically confirmed with the saleman at the time I placed the order that the passenger seat would be powered just as the driver's seat. My salesman, a second salesman, the business manager, and the sales manager all looked through all of their ordering info. Everything they found reinforced my expectation. The sales manager said "We owe you a powered passenger seat and will get you one." We'll see. (The side air bags are in the front seats. They had better get it right!)

    One medium surprise: The radio, despite being described in unusual terms in the brochure as having CD changer controls, does not in fact have a CD player. It has a cassette player. The CD changer controls verbiage means only that it can control an external CD changer supplied by the customer. The salesman said that I was not the first person to make that mistake. That's a bit of a low blow, but I won't make a fuss.

    The interior color is "navy blue." It is in fact a medium blue combined with a gray/bluish seat fabric--perfectly pleasant, and nothing that I would have called "navy blue."

    The vehicle is wonderfully plush, smooth, and quiet. So far, I love it.

    Naples, NY
  • I posted this on another DC van list and no response yet. Any takers here:
    Question - Early generations of the AWD system offered in the minivans sent a maximum of only
    10% of the torque to the rear wheels if slippage was detected in the front wheels. Is this still the case on the 2002 models or has Chrysler updated the system? They offer *very* little technical information on their website.

    -- BKS
  • geoduckgeoduck Posts: 52
    One of the moderators knows this subject well. IIRC, under normal operation, 10% of the power is fed to the rear wheels; when necessary up to 50% can ultimately be transferred to the rear.

    Our 2001 model works wonderfully.
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    A salesperson told me you lose 4 mpg with AWD. Is that true?
  • Ahh. To summarize: normal driving conditions is 90/10, not 100/0 like I suspected. Maximum split is 50/50. Very helpful - and thanks on letting me know how you think yours does.
    I live in SE Pennsylvania, we have occasional snow storms of considerable amounts but not sure if its enough to warrant the cost. But its tempting.
    -- BKS
  • geoduckgeoduck Posts: 52
    AWD does negatively impact gas mileage--that 4mpg seems about right, but others with non-AWD would know for sure. We don't put all that many miles on this vehicle, so the gas cost hit to us is less of a concern. Still our mileage is lousy, 16mpg is average. The highway sweet spot for the 3.8 engine seems between 70-82mph (true joy on a desolated, straight open road).

    We do find the AWD functionality worth it. We are essentially replacing a SUV, so we use it on snowy mountain roads and dirt/gravel back roads. The only problem is the lower ground clearance for ruts and potholes; higher snow hasn't stopped us--yet.

    Here in western Washington, the additional control on our frequently wet roads is appreciated. (I think they sell more Subarus here than anywhere.)
  • This is for Voyager and Caravan, right? Either no Voyager owners look at this site, or T & C owners need to take up space elsewhere. I own a 2001 Voyager that I love and I came here today to find similar experiences--instead all I find are posts about T&C and GC and how they compare to Odyssey. I was going to buy a Seinna until Motor Trend said the new Voyager was the best van in its class in a five way comparison--over the Sienna. I am glad I did because I'm very happy. I was concerned about no rear air, but those 3 big vents over the radio push a ton of air to the back and I had no complaints over the summer. I don't want to offend the T&C owners, but aren't there any Voyager owners who can comment on their vans? Thanks.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    We have a 99 GC SE 3.3L with all options but Conv Gp V (Theft and remote entry). We like the longer wheelbase to get rear air/rear heater + heat/AC vents at rear of front doors. The Grand also has Overhead console with compass/outside temp/Trip computer.
    Have you looked at the 2002 Sedona? If so, how do you compare it with your 2001 Voyager?
  • I have not driven a Sedona, but I like what I see. I try not to get into comparisons because it doesn't matter--I've got my Voyager. I know a woman who bought a Sedona and she loves it. Two people she works with are buying one or have bought one as a result of riding in hers, so they must be as nice as they seem. My Voyager is a base, but with upgrades. I have the 3.3l 6, 4 spd auto, dark windows, pwr w/l/m, and CD. I got it for about $19k and am very happy with it. We wet out to buy a Town & Country LX for about $22k, but decided we did not need the extra room behind the third seat for our one road trip to the beach a year. My Voyager is equipped with the same engine, tranny, stereo and seating arrangement as the T&C LX for $3000 less. I liked the Voyager LX with the power sliding doors and captain's chairs, but we decided if we were going to spend $22k for it, we would get the T&C LX instead as the Voyager LX still didn't have rear air. The Sedona was not out at the time we bought (Memorial Day) so it wasn't a true option for us.
  • Looks likes yours is very nicely equipped at a very good price.
    I agree with you that if one spends $22K, it is better to get T&C to get the rear Air/rear heater. With the new eL model, you also get the nice overhead console with outside temp/compass/ trip computer, Triple Zone Temp control.
    The base Voyager is an excellent minivan and you got the REALLY important options. I am very pleased with the 3.3L V6 that has more than sufficient power with excellent fuel economy. You are wise to not try to "2nd Guess" and be happy with the vehicle you got.
    I feel the Sedona is also very nice vehicle at an excellent price.
  • Like I said, I'm really happy with it. Living in metro Atlanta, cars seem to be relatively cheap here. On Chrysler products, CarMax (not where I bought mine) does something that allows them to sell cars cheaper than anyone else and it causes all the other dealers to drop their prices way down. The same holds true for other brands. I moved here from Columbus, Ga not too long ago, and there is one dealer of each kind of car there. If you want a Camry, you pay what it says on the sticker, or you drive to Atlanta or somewhere and try to find a better price. Here, there are Toyota dealers every 10 miles or so and 2002 Camrys sell for less than $18k. It's amazing!
  • seeligseelig Posts: 590
    a '95 caravan for $4,900.00? it has 125K miles, and is in excellent shape.......what do you all think?
  • Edmunds TMV puts the value of a 1995 Dodge Caravan at about $4200 private party and $5200 at a dealer. The mileage sounds a little on the high side maybe? You left out a few variables, though--Grand? Model? Options? Based on the info given, you might offer closer to $4000-$4200 and see what happens. One thing to look out for. I had a 1993 Caravan SE and it had a bad problem with stalling. Would do it all the time--especially after highway use. I don't know if the problems ended by 1995, but you'll want to get it checked closely! Use the carfax service--you never know if the van was wrecked when it was a month old or what may have happened to it years ago! Good luck
  • Do you personally know the person selling the van? 125,000 miles is almost 18,000 miles a year. Vans are not driven by little old ladies only to church on Sundays. They are used to haul softball teams to games and large dogs to the vet. They could be used by salesmen who drive around stop and go all day long, 5 days a week. But, if you know the seller, and you can be certain of its service history, the price doesn't sound too bad per Edmunds TMV.
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    Does any one know if Autostick is available on the 2002 Caravan?
  • What kind of mileage are you guys experiencing? I have a 2001 Voyager with the 3.3l and I only get high teens around town. Does that sound right? I thought I would get more like 20.
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    Larry reports that the 2002 AWD "unequivocally" has no 2100 rpm resonance problem. For owners (like me) of 2001 AWDs, this has been an issue from day one.

    Yesterday I drove a 2002 AWD (Dodge Caravan ES). I could NOT get it to exhibit resonance at 2100 rpm or any other rpm in normal driving. My own 2001, which I had driven to the dealership for this test, under the same conditions DID exhibit the resonance. On my vehicle, there has been no change (improvement or degradation) in 20,000 miles. However, it IS temperature sensitive -- mostly ambient temperature, not engine temperature. Now that the weather is cooling, the problem goes from being 'noticeable' to being quite annoying.

    Because there don't seem to be reports about resonance problems in the 2002's and my own test (of only one vehicle) showed a difference to my 2001, this should be good news for those contemplating purchase of a 2002 AWD.

    It may also prove to be good news for us 2001 AWD owners since it might indicate that DC does have a solution to the problem.

    Does anyone know of ANY design changes to the driveline for AWD between 2001 and 2002?

  • Does anyone know of a brand of rotors/pads that will solve my problem of turning/replacing rotors on my GC every six months or so. I live in a hilly area, and the rotors available from the Dodge dealer simply aren't satisfactory.
  • vchengvcheng Posts: 1,284
  • We have a new 2001 GC AWD also and have this same "issue" - in quotes because my wife drives t he car 95% of the time and does not notice it. We had the car on our first trip and I drive (90 minutes or so). I noticed the following, FWIW: definitely more noticeable when cold; to me it is an engine resonance that is probably transmitted to the drivetrain - if you give enough throttle to unlock the torque converter is disappears; also, when decelerating, with no throttle, then give a little throttle, as the engine cycles up and then down a few hundred RPM and goes right through the 2100 RPM mark, the resonance occurs. Not that any of this solves the issue. It may be something harmonic occurring in the intake system that DCX has figured out a way to dampen out. Has anyone checked the service bulletins?
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    According to a salesman I spoke to, the problem was in the steering column. It has been fixed.
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    paul164 (post 1372) -- yes, the way you describe the problem is consistent with my experience. I doubt that you'll detect it in any FWD (I didn't).

    It's really annoying when driving uphill at a steady rpm of 2100. It takes a bit of a load on the engine (either accelerating or climbing) to get it to resonate. At 2000 rpm or below, no problem; at 2300 rpm or above, no problem. As stated earlier, my test drive of a 2002 AWD did NOT exhibit the problem. I'm in the process of asking my dealership to find out how come.

  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    I am about to order a Caravan. Most of the dealers are recommending against AWD. What effect does AWD have on ride, handling or fuel economy compared to the FWD?

  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    My experience is with a 2001 Caravan ES AWD that I bought new and have 20,000 miles on. Last winter it made quite a few trips over passes and into the mountains of Washingon and Oregon. My previous experience was with a 1990 Caravan SE FWD which I owned for 11 years.

    Ride -- I don't think AWD has any effect. However, my ES has the trailer towing option, and I think that probably makes it ride a bit stiffer. I like it and wouldn't trade that feature. Suggest you test drive with and without trailer tow option.

    Handling -- same answer. I think the handling is great -- tracks well, corners predictably, no sway. I expect the FWD would be the same.

    Fuel economy -- I suspect, from reading other posts here and comparing to my experience, that AWD 'costs' in the neighborhood of 2mpg. The best I can do over the long haul, mostly driving 70mph is about 22mpg. Around town is 16-17mpg.

    Now to answer a question you didn't ask: how effective is AWD?

    My answer is IF you add a good snow tire, it is fantastic. (I use Michelin Artic Alpins.) On packed snow acceleration is amazing (thanks to tires + AWD) and so is braking (thanks to tires + ABS). Last summer I 'tested' my vehicle on a gravel road, accelerating uphill and decelerating downhill. Again, amazing -- takes right off, stops in a straight line.

    The reason I say tires are important is that I also drove on snow with the stock tires, and noticed a significant difference.

    I'd say what it boils down to is: what conditions you need it to perform in, and cost (in terms of loss of efficiency and purchase price). I do a lot of winter driving and would make the same decision again.

    Finally, if the AWD you are considering is a 2001, I strongly suggest that you research the 2100 rpm issue in this Topic and do a careful test drive to see if you can live with it.

    Hope this helps.

  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    The word I'm getting from my service manager, who got it from the District Service Manager, is that DC did indeed make engineering changes to correct the 2100 rpm resonance problem in the 2002 AWDs (as opposed to the 2001 AWDs). This jibes with my own experience when I recently test drove a 2002 AWD and could not get it to resonate. Good news for new buyers.

  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100

    Thanks much for the info. We do not get that much snow in NY and I have found that my cars with traction control always get me through the snow. However, my main issue is trying to merge into traffic when you are sitting on some sand or gravel. Even traction control does not help that much. I thought that AWD woudl give me the margin of safety. Any thoughts.


  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    Ed, I'll elaborate a bit more on my 'test' on a gravel road. The road surface was what I'll call crushed rock and it was dry and dusty, with loose gravel on it. My Caravan was pretty fully loaded with 2 people + camping gear and windsurfing equipment (boards, sails, etc.) much of which was on the roof.

    I tried accelerating hard from a stop, going uphill, and did not spin a tire -- the vehicle just took off. I knew that my old Caravan (FWD) would have easily spun the front wheels, especially because of the incline and load. I was impressed.

    I have no experience with traction control, but my understanding is that it is generally implemented by impeding acceleration, either by selective wheel braking or timing retardation. Thus, I would guess AWD would be better suited to your need (accelerating with poor traction).

  • Rolfe2, I also have a 2001 AWD with the 2100 rpm resonance problem. It is bothering me more the longer I live with it. Do you know if the engineering change to fix the problem in the 2002 models is likely to be applied to the 2001 models with a TSB. Thanks for all of your information on this topic over the last half year.
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    Here's what I've been told. Perhaps you or someone else can confirm this independently.

    a) There was a fix made in the 2002 model. My source doesn't know what the fix entailed. (I test drove one 2002 ES AWD and could not make it resonate at any rpm I tried -- it sounded just like a FWD);

    b) There will be a TSB "shortly" for 2001's. However, this likely won't be the full engineering change that was developed for the 2002's. Instead, it may be some kind of mitigation (in other words, a cheaper and perhaps less effective solution).

    My guess is that the EC for 2002 involved preventing the resonance. The TSB may just try to dampen it.

    My hunch is that "shortly" doesn't mean days, it probably means weeks.

    FWIW, my source is usually pretty cautious when speculating on what DC may do about this problem; this time he seemed pretty certain about a future TSB. Naturally, I'll continue to track this.

    And you're welcome. It's nice to have my efforts to inform appreciated.

  • For Rolfe2, definitely thanks for keeping up with this issue. I appreciate it also. Do you know (or can you find out) what was done for the 2002 to address the issue? Naturally, let us know what you find out about the TSB or other fix that may be out there. I noticed from reading some other posts that AWD was late availability for 2002, and also the AWD's for 2001 seemed to be earlier in that model year. This might be (surmising here, of course) that DCX was waiting for some engineering changes to be made. I was surprised that only like 10% of the minivans are AWD.

    General Comments - We really like our 2001 GC AWD. What most impresses me about the vehicle are the driving dynamics (other than the 2100 issue) - really amazing for a minivan, or even for a "regular" vehicle. It is actually fun to drive, and I am an enthusiastic driver. Frankly I am less impressed by some of the day-in and day-out features. For instance, the cup holders attached to the rear captain's chairs are always falling down and getting in the way. The moveable center console seems cheap and flimsy and is generally in the way (although that phone holder/plug is nice, but the cap of the plug outlet has bitten the dust). The climate controls are not very intuitive and hard to use at night (poor or nonexistent back lighting where you need it). And the three knobs (fan, temp and direction are identical). The controls for the power windows and the power locks are the same button and positioned so that I am always confusing them - and again I do not think they are lit at night like most cars these days. Same for the headlight controls - our '95 Ford Contour we used to have had the controls always lit. With the minivan, they are only lit once you already have the headlights on - what good is that? the controls generally seem out of place for what is a $35k vehicle (however I guess if you bought a base GC for 19k or so they might not be? - a drawback of trying to please the whole spectrum of buyers w/basically one vehicle).
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    paul164 -- Unfortunately, I don't know what changed on the 2002. Interesting comment you made about late availability of AWD. I completely agree about the driveability; personally, I don't have a problem with the ergonomics, except for the long reach to release the e-brake.

    I hope someone who knows what the design change for AWD was for 2002 will post a description. That will help us evaluate how closely any TSB matches the real 'fix.'

  • Can anyone tell me if the Cruise Control Buttons mounted on the steering wheel are lit when the headlights/dash lights are on? Mine on our 2001 T&C LXi are not however they look just like the rest of the controls on the dash for heater, fan, radio, etc. giving the impression that they should be. Thank you.
  • no ... the buttons on the steering wheel don't light (they ought to be though -- try to fumble them on a dark road is hazardous). another thing that should be lighted is those cupholders. a light ring around it would be helpful at night.
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    What would be a reasonable discount for a new 2001 Chrysler T&C LXi?

  • i have a friend studied in the washington dc area and he bought a 2001 tc limited this june for around $30,000 USD out the door(he said it listed for $36,500). so i guess you might be able to get it for even cheaper since the new '02s are arriving stateside. good luck ...
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    I just ordered a T&C minivan. The dealer told me it would arrive in about five weeks. Does that sound about right?

  • lsherlsher Posts: 29
    I ordered my '02 T&C LXi AWD on Sept. 18. It was delivered on Oct. 24. So five weeks sounds reasonable. ('02 AWD production didn't begin until 10/24.)

    Caution! The '02 brochure clearly says that the LXi with 29U package includes a power passenger seat. IT IS NOT TRUE. There may be an unsaid requirement for leather, I'm not sure, but with cloth seats, it's not true. My dealer says that he will remedy this deficiency, but so far, only promises.
    Naples, NY
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100

    I ordered an AWD also. How do you like it so far?

  • A few months ago, I posted some messages re: my experience replacing the howling roof rack on my T&C Ltd. Here's a quick recap.

    I went to Fullerton Chrysler (Southern California) after they told me to bring the car in. Once I got there, the first thing the Asst. Mgr. Of Service asked me is if I know the difference between a recall and a TSB (technical service bulletin). Basically, his point was that I have to pay for a TSB. I told him, not if the car is under warranty. He then said, "What year is your car?" He should know the answer, the model just came out (2001 model). He then asked, "Is it still under warranty? How many miles is your car?" How many people drives 36,000 miles in less than a year? The rest of the conversation does not matter. I knew then and there I do not want them touching my car.

    I then went to Huntington Beach Chrysler. Upon arrival, the first thing I was asked is if I have an appointment. I told them, No, when I called Chrysler Corporation, I was just told to bring the car down. (This is a lie, I did not call Chrysler Corp. I just read from these postings and by calling other dealers that I was to bring the car down). Nonetheless, his answer surprised me. He said, "We do not work for Chrysler Corporation. Chrysler Corporation does not pay us. We are an independently owned dealer." When he saw the look on my face, he retorted, You don't want to pay for this, do you? . Basically, he is upset that I do not have an appointment. Point taken, but on the other hand, I was not asking him to fix the car right then and there.

    A few exchanges later (and I want to point out, I still kept my cool because I just want them to change the roof rack) he calmed down, took the part number down and told me he would call me when the part came in. When it did, the work was performed and I was off on my way.

    When the survey came, I told Chrysler Corporation the work was performed as expected, but that I was surprised at how rude the Service Manager was and how I felt my business was not appreciated. I was happy with the work, but I was not happy with the way I was initially treated. I did write that after the initial unpleasantries, I was treated as expected.

    A few days ago, my ABS warning light went on. I called this same dealer to make an appointment (they were closest to my work) and was assigned to the same service manager. I did not want to deal with him again, but I had no choice. He said he can't see me until next Tuesday. I made the appointment anyway. I then called a different dealer and they were able to see me the next morning. I brought the car in and got better than expected service. The problem (rear wheel sensor) was fixed right away.

    A few hours later, the same Service Manager @ Huntington Beach Chrysler called me and said, :Don't bring your car in. We don't want you to bring your car in. Your comments on the Chrysler Corporation Survey cost me $300. What kind of response did you think you were going to get?" I was taken by surprise, I just said, "Okay" and hung up. I couldn't believe it. Do I have to go through this verbal abuse every time I want to have them fix my car?

    So I called their General Manager and told him what happened. His response was, "If you were not happy with us the first time, why would you want to come back?" Wow! This is new for me. I have never heard of a dealer refusing service to someone for writing a negative survey. After all, aren't surveys designed to find out why customers aren't happy? Apparently this dealer did not believe or want second chances.

    So, I called Chrysler Corporation again and reported what happened. Even though the person on the other end eagerly took down the report (he couldn't believe it either). I expect nothing to come out of this (and by the way things are going, I HOPE nothing comes out of this).

    I am not asking anyone to boycott the dealership. They seem to do good work and I am sure most people have no problems with them. I am still convinced I just caught this particular Service Manager at a bad time. I was thankful this happened. I now know for sure where not to take my car. And BOY, do I have a story to tell =)

    Does anyone know anyone else who has been blacklisted from a dealership? For writing a bad survey?

    Last but not least, I know none of you read my actual survey, but do you think I am fair in my survey, saying that I am happy with the work done but not the way I was initially treated?

    I know the dealer is upset because of the bad remark, but, do you think they are justified in asking me not to bring my car to them? (even though I no longer want to?)
  • lsherlsher Posts: 29
    I found this report especially interesting, since I've come within a hair's breadth of submitting a seriously critical review of my own 5-Star dealer. (He and the brochure promised a power passenger seat. The delivered car did not have it. He immediately said he'd remedy it, but that was 6 1/2 weeks ago. He's still promising.)

    You indicate that you kept your cool but that several people you spoke with didn't. In my experience, that is very unusual. It would be most interesting to hear the other partys' versions of these conversations.

    I am also struck by the blacklisting. I've never heard of that before in this context but I have certainly heard of that in other contexts. For example, a restaurant might reasonably refuse service to a patron who has a reputation for causing trouble.

    Without hearing both sides, I don't think that there is any way to pass judgement here.

    Naples, NY
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    I think I have had the opposite experience with dealers on Long Island. Twenty years ago, some Chrysler dealers were bad news. However, over the last ten years I have worked with four different dealers and found them to be excellent. I just shopped for a new minivan and came into contact with three more dealers and found them to be excellent.

    I believe the five star thing is working in my area.

  • lsherlsher Posts: 29
    I've owned about 15 cars of 6 nationalities over a period of the past 50 years. I've seen an enormous range of quality in automotive dealerships. Two observations might be generalizable:
    1. The sales and service portions of a dealership may be run as two separate organizations under one roof. In that case, a quality experience in sales says very little about the longer-term and more important experiences you'll have in service. A less-than-good experience in sales augers for a nightmare in service.
    2. When you find a service organization that is both honest and competent, consider yourself blessed and stick with them! You might well consider that subsequent auto purchase decisions should be strongly influenced by the availability of such a service organization.

    The worst service experiences I've had would curl your hair. One was with Citroen, now mercifully gone from the US market. The other was with Subaru in 1980, a remarkably poorly made vehicle made into an unmitigated disaster by Subaru's local servide organization that had one foot in jail and the other on a banana peel. That was well before Subaru achieved its now excellent reputation, but I still can't rid myself of ill will toward the brand.

    Naples, NY
  • A normal human being would be nice to you and try to help you, that's just common business practice, and basic human decency values. Obviously, alot of dealerships are staffed by inappropriate dysfunctional people that have too many of their own personal problems to be able to behave properly in public. If you don't get treated with respect, go elsewhere.
  • I would love to disconnect the annoying beeper that sounds when I use the automatic rear lift gate on my 2002 Dodge GC EX.

    I like the van so far (1700 miles). The gas mileage is not very good. I have seen a few posts in reference to the 3.8.

    I am also wondering if there is some place for after market stuff for the 2002 DGC. I am not sure what I would want, but would like to browse.
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81

    A while back someone posted how to disable the thing. It was either in this discussion or a related one.

    I followed the procedure, and it worked fine. The beeper is in the lift gate handle -- you have to use a torx driver to access it. It was simple -- you have to clip a wire.

    As I recall, there are several (maybe 3) wires running to what was obviously the beeper on the left. Unfortunately, I don't recall the color of the one to clip.

    If you can figure out how to search the content of posts for keywords, search on "torx" and I'll bet you can find it (I don't know how to do this).

    When I pull into a crowded campground after 10pm and start unloading, the other residents are really grateful I disabled the dang thing.

  • You clip the tan wire. Works great and we now actually use the remote to open the door!
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