Dodge Intrepid

mike372

You are correct, ownership of Fram has changed several times. Allied Signal used to own Fram, but I believe they sold the name to someone else. By the way, what brand filters do you use in your cars. For awhile I was going to these quik lube places to change my oil, but decided to go back to doing it myself because I was never sure of the quality of the filters they use (probably the absolute cheapest available) and did not like some of the clowns (aka technicians) they employed.

Jason5

Afternoon group...

    Made an appointment for my Intrepid week after next. Having the driver's seat recall issue addressed, the door seals replaced, and a speaker buzz examined. Interestingly enough, the service manager said that they didn't "rearrange the door seals" but will only replace them. In addition I'm having the serpentine belt examined for wear. I know that has been an area of concern for some... Service manager suggested that somewhere between 70,000 and 100,000 miles they recommend a replacement.

Jason5

Have driven two 2004 Durango's.... Very nice!

emale

jason,

4.7l or 5.7l equipped?

andre1969

I had my belts changed around 84,000 miles. Owner's manual calls for every 60K, but maybe they're being conservative. Anyway though, the mechanic said that they were due! Guess it beats the hell out of the "good old days", when you had to change the belts every 30K miles or so! But then again, back then I could usually do them myself...I took one look in my 'Trep's engine bay and decided it wasn't worth the scraped knuckles and cost of anger management classes that may follow! ;-)

I kinda like the new Durango, too. No need for an SUV here, but that Hemi sounds tempting!

taurus2

What does Dodge plan to sell as their large sedan? That Magnum is nothing at all like the Intrepid. I find it unfortuante that the Intrepid will be dropped from the line up.

mike372

The Charger will replace the Intrepid. Look for it in the beginning of '05. If you want an Intrepid you better get one before they're gone.

mike372

Just wondering what MD NFK stands for in your user profile.

indydriver

I finally gave into fear and had the belt on my 3.5L 300M changed at 113,000 miles. Still looked pretty good.

Jason5

Emale--Both were 4.7's. There was a Hemi equipped one on the lot that I'll take out at some point. As you might expect the 4.7 was more than adequate. Engine/tranny combo was extremely smooth and quiet..
    Thanks for all the feedback on belts....

andre1969

the MD is just for Maryland, and the NFK is Norfolk Islands. I just think it has a nice, Christmas-y look to it (although Christmas is the last thing I want to think of right now...it's just coming up too damn fast!!)

mike372

Is that picture to the right of Andre1969 the state flag of Maryland? Just curious!

mike372

the picture is the flag of Norfolk Islands which are part of Australia. Hows that for some internet research.

mike372

and on Modernracer.com there is a picture of the long awaited 2005 Dodge Charger. It is a sleek looking 2 door coupe with a long hood and packs various V-8's. Its just the opposite of the current Trep with its short hood and lots of interior space. Maybe I s/h waited for this car instead of buying the 02 Intrepid?! Hey Ottowrkr, i s this an accurate spy shot of the Charger. By now, you must know what it looks like with production coming in 2 months.

grihul

Just dropped off my 00 trep.New oil pump and timing chain tensioner.
 The mech. said he's doing a bunch of these.
 Even getting into rebuilding them .
 He said that dodge is referring the 2.7's as their "sludge motors".
 I love the car and it's ran great but it started to sound like a diesel in the morning until i revved it up pass 1000rpms(not good).
 And,yeah my oil light would come on at a stop light too.

andre1969

how many miles does your Intrepid have on it? One thing I've noticed that's kind of curious, is that some owners manuals actually say that it's normal for the light to come on in some low-idle situations, like idling at a traffic light, coming to a stop after a long highway drive (which is when mine first came on), etc.

I haven't bothered to look it up in the Intrepid's owner's manual yet, but one day, we were going through the owner's manual of the '03 Regal my Dad recently bought, and it mentioned that it's normal for the light to come on in those situations. I also have an owner's manual to a '76 LeMans (nostalgia...I wanted one of those cars when I was a kid, and still kinda do!), and it even says the same thing!

Still, with the exception of my 'Trep, I've only had one car where the oil light would come on while idling...my '67 Pontiac Catalina. It also has an aftermarket gauge hooked up, so I could tell exactly what it was doing. At idle, once the pressure dropped down to under 18 psi or so, the light would start to flicker. It sounded like it was idling awfully slow to begin with, so I just advanced the timing on the distributor a bit to make it go away. Unfortunately, I don't think you can adjust the idle on a 'Trep so easily!!

Only other time I'd ever have the oil light come on was when it got too low and I made a sudden stop or turn. So that's why I don't fully believe it when they say it's "normal"! Because the only time I've ever seen it is when there's something wrong with the car.

As for my 'Trep, I haven't seen that oil light come on in awhile now. However, I recently moved, and my commute to work is now only about 3 1/2 miles. The heater's just starting to blow warm air by the time I pull into the parking lot at work!

mike372

It seems to me that the problem is not with the oil sensor. There is something else that is causing the oil light to come on. Maybe its theoil pump that is clogged. The previous message said that the mechanic repalced the oil pump. That mechanic supposedly was also complaining about the 2.7 liter motors. I dont know - but it seems that the engine has a poor reputation. I would like to talk to the mechanic to see what he says. Maybe your oil pump is clogged causing the oil pressure to drop. I am really beginning to believe these people who say the 2.7 is GARBAGE.

mike372

How many miles is on your trep. Have you owned it since new. I would like to have the phone # of your mechanic so i can discuss the engine .

mike372

The mechanic at the local Dodge dealer told me is was very important that I change the oil every 3K miles, not 4 or 5 or 6k miles. He said this was because the 2.7 is a high performance motor. It seems to me that the only thing that could cause sludge build-up would be not changing the oil enuf. The only other cause I can think of would be too high operating temperature. It would be interesting to find out what the operating temp of the 2.7 engine is. I know that my Chevy 350 engine and my Firebird 301 engine had a considerable amount of sludge buildup under the valve covers when I rebuilt the engines. But I cant say that the oil was changed every 3k miles in those engines. The engines were at about 10 to 11 years old when rebuilt and had about 110k to 120k miles.

pat

Um, phone numbers may not be posted here ...

And emale, would you send me an email at pat@edmunds.com - thanks.

mike372

ok since our host says for some mysterious reason that phone numbers may not be posted, please email me and let me know how i can contact him

grihul

I have about 70,000 on my '00 trep,which i bought new.And i admit i might have waited to long a few times,possibly up to 5k b-4 changing oil.After i started having trouble with it i started to change the oil and filter every 1k to 1500 miles w/an occasional quart of risilone in it to help "gradually" clean the crap out.
 But i'm use to cars that it would not really bother waiting longer than 3k.Now i know.
 Give me my old 69 torino back please!
 Anyway,the mech. called last night and said that it's so bad that he doesn't know how much longer i have w/this motor.He did say this was about as bad as he's seen.And a rebuild thru him is $3400.
 I told him to finish putting on the new pump,timing chain tensioner and button it up.
 Guess we're out shopping this weekend.:(
  And fer what it's worth i have a '95 neon 2.0
with 125k that has been serviced about as much without any oil related probs.

grihul

I'm new on this site.How do i get your address?
 Clicking your name only got me your stats.

andre1969

about changing my oil every 3000-3500 miles, although I do think I wait about 4500 miles once.

I wonder if a used engine out of a junkyard would be much cheaper than a rebuilt one? Last time I was in the junkyard, they had about 15-20 LH cars of '98-01 vintage (it was in '01 that I went). They were all in there as the result of a crash, as opposed to major mechanical failure. Maybe if you could find a low-mileage engine, it might be worth it.

I've also wondered how hard it would be to swap out the 2.7 if it was shot, and drop in a bigger engine like a 3.2 or 3.5?

pat

grihul - you did the right thing, but he has his email address marked private. He can make it public so that you can see it.

mike372

I converted my email address to public so that you communicate with me. Sorry, my mistake.

mike372

The problem with junk yard motors is that you never know how mnay miles are on them, since most of the 'good' engines are pulled out of the car before you see them. And if you think the yard owner is going to tell you the truth about the mileage, think again. And if the sludge problem is a reality, most likely the yard motor has the same problem as your dead engine. Andre, it will be interesting to see if your oil lite problem turns out to be a sludge problem. If so, I will sell this sludge-mobile and it will be the first and last Chrysler product I will ever buy. You seem to be a reasonable person with knowledge of cars and if your 2000 Trep has a sludge problem, I will definitely believe its a reality instead of some owners on the web who never change their oil. Keep me posted. I always try to be positive but there seems to be too many people complaining about this problem. I think I will visit some engine rebuiding shops in an effort to figure out whats going on. The Chrysler dealers for sure will not give me a good answer.

mike372

I will just drive the 91 Celica GTS around. With 114,000 miles, the engine runs good with no sludge problems. Its actually a fun car to drive, 2.2 Liter 24 valve DOHC motor, incredible sound system, ABS brakes, and nice tires/wheels. Only problem is that I like larger cars.

andre1969

I'll definitely keep you posted, when I finally get my car into the shop. I'm going to change the oil and filter this weekend, and see if by some stroke of luck that does the trick.

After that though, I'm debating on whether or not I should take it back to the dealer, or to my local mechanic. I have an extended warranty, which is good to 100K miles, but has a $200 deductible. However, I'm worried that if I take it to the dealer, they're going to try telling me I didn't change the oil (I did all but three changes myself, so I don't really have proof) and that's what's screwing it up.

I trust my mechanic, but then I'm worried that if he finds something that would've been covered under the warranty, I'd end up screwing myself by paying him to do the work.

It does still seem to be running fine, though. No nasty noises or anything. When an engine gets sludged up, does it sound any different?

As for junkyard engines, I was kinda figuring that if the car was still fairly new and in there because of an accident, maybe the engine didn't have enough time to get abused too badly! One little thing I forgot about though, is that cars don't have mechanical odometers anymore. You'd need to have the power on to read the odometer on an Intrepid, and chances are the wrecks in the junkyard aren't going to have power anymore!

mike372

Its good that you have the extended warranty to 100K miles. I have a powertrain warranty that came with the car but its only good to 70K miles, not 100K. But I also like changing the oil myself as I dont trust these 'mechanics' and I like to choose my own filter and oil. I could have problems if the engine develops a problem because I dont have proof of the oil changes. But I keep receipts for the oil and part of the box the filter came in. However, that may not be enuf and I may have Chrysler change the oil at 9K miles which is very soon. I changed it myself at 6K and Chrysler changed it at 3K. I also changed it at 1500 miles. Now if that is not an extremely well maintained vehicle than I give up!

andre1969

now I'm starting to feel that the extended warranty was a waste of money. I mean, here it is, almost 88,000 miles into it, and I haven't had to use it once. The few things that have broken on the car were either not covered by the warranty (door trim seals) or under the $200 deductible. Still, a lot can happen in 12,000 miles!

mike372

Have you ever used synthetic oil. Some suggest this as a solution to the engine sludge problem. I am kind of convinced now that there is a problem with these 2.7L engines. Most say that the engine was designed with insufficient oil passages causing the oil to overheat and break down.

mike372

recommends using 5W-30 oil which is thinner than 10W-30 oil. I wonder how many of these people complaining about sludge are using 10W-30 oil. Just a thought. I think the synthetic oil idea is good, as the owners manual says its OK. The guy at the local parts store has a special edition Mustang GT and he swears by this oil. Just some things to consider. I unscrewed the oil cap today and looked inside with a flashlight and it looked real clean so far. So i will have to keep my fingers crossed!

Jason5

I've been watching this discussion regarding the supposed "engine sludge" and decided to investigate it a bit. Some of you are aware that my brother used to be a sales manager for Dodge--so I know the service manager well. I also work regularly with a rental car manager who tracks the maintenance of their rental fleet. You might recall that I've driven several 2.7 liter Intrepid rentals.
   The service manager was concerned about this issue--as it hadn't been his experience that the 2.7--in either the Intrepid or Stratus applications--was prone to trouble. In his review of TSB's he found nothing directly related to sludge buildup as an issue or with the oil sending unit. From his personal experience he said that the unit (the 2.7) has been a particularly solid and low maintenance unit. He's not denying the story of trouble--but he suggests that it's not a routine problem.
   My friend who manages the rental fleet said that same. In fact, he reports, the Intrepid rentals they use have been particularly good. Now..that said...he did acknowledge that they rarely keep one beyond 30K because they move on to the retail unit--but in that time they are used hard.
   The 2.7 in my sister-in-laws Stratus is fast approaching 50,000 miles and has been trouble free.. My brother--and I--have both used synthetics since the first oil change after break in.
    The mystery continues...

mike372

Yea the mystery continues.... Just wanted to know if you can switch to synthetic oil if the first three oil changes have been with regular 5W30 oil.

andre1969

and everything looked okay. I mean, the oil was black, as oil tends to get, but there wasn't anything nasty in it, like metallic shavings, other fluids, etc! And roughly 5 quarts came out, so it's not like it's magically disappearing or anything!

I've been using Castrol 10W-30 ever since I've owned the car, so that's what I put in this time. I'd be worried switching to a lighter oil after all this time. Anyway, I haven't driven the car enough since I changed the oil (basically just across the street), so I haven't had a chance to see if the oil light still comes on or not.

grihul

I haven't been able to get a hold of my mech.He was to call me today at noon to pick it up and it's now 10:30pm.
And so far all i've gotten was a message about the motor giving him a fit(what over,i don't know).I even drove by the shop i dropped it off at,but he wasn't there.I know he has a 2nd garage where he has a couple part time mech at night werking.But i don't know where it is and i only have 1 # for him.
 Needless to say i'm kinda p#ssed off over no call.And my wife needs that car for werk monday.So i'm hearing crap from her too;)
 And yes i was using 10w30 just like i always have.And if that would make that much difference
i would consider that a design flaw.But maybe i'm biased.

mike372

The owner's manual says that 5W30 oil is preferred in the 2.7 and 10W30 in the 3.5. I dont know why but there must be some reason. The big Q is, how dirty should the oil look after 3 to 4K miles in a car with 80K miles. I know that I just looked at my oil (took off fill cap and looked in with flashlight) with 2900 miles since last oil change on a car with 8900 miles and it looked almost like it came out of the container new. Because if there is a significant amount of sludge in a motor, I think it is reasonable to assume that the oil would get black very quickly. Well its 2:30 in the morning but I have had some unusual hours lately.
What do you think?

indydriver

after maintaining my own cars and motorcycles for over 30 years....

The two key issues (in order of importance) are: #1. Frequency of oil change; and #2. Quality of oil filter.

Quality of oil is not really an issue today. All the major brands meet the SAE certifications required by the auto manufacturers for use in their vehicles. Synthetics are not necessary and tend to give owners a false sense of security leading them away from priority number one above. Using synthetic oils in a street car is kind of like the guy who puts premium fuel in his 87 octane rated engine...it makes him feel better but really doesn't do anything for performance.

Frequency of change is critical for an often overlooked factor: contamination. Most modern oils won't breakdown past the point of serviceability in the recommended change cycle. However, oil quickly becomes contaminated with a variety of materials regardless of its make-up. The key to long engine life from a lubrication perspective is keeping those contaminates from building up.

Oil filters do make a difference and I would recommend that DIYer's invest their money here rather than in fancy oils. There are important cost and performance differences in the construction of filters. Of primary concern are the anti-drainback and bypass valves as well as the size and type of filtering media.

The anti-drainback valve essentially protects the top end of your engine from excessive wear during cold start-up. If you hear more than a second or two of "valve clatter" during cold starts, your cheapy filter isn't doing the job and you should investigate filters with better valve design/materials. Believe me, you will hear the difference when you change filter brands. Filtering media ranges from low end cellulose (essentially paper) to high tech synthetic fabrics. One key is media area. The less area (especially in a cellulose filter), the sooner it will become clogged and allow oil to bypass the filter. If you are not changing your oil at 3,000 mile intervals, I would highly recommend using a filter with a large area, synthetic filtering material.

Finally, use the viscosity oil recommended in your owner's manual. The people that make these things know what they are doing. 5W-30 is a great product. It contains only slightly more viscosity additive than 10W-30. Remember, 5W-30 is "thinner" only when cold, when most engine wear occurs. At temperature, 30 is 30.

andre1969

and 5W-30 is listed as preferred for the 2.7, but 10W-30 is also listed. They're plotted on a temperature scale, with 5W-30 ranging from 100 degrees down to below -20. 10W-30 ranges from 0 degrees on up to over 100.

I dunno why, but for some reason I've always been afraid of 5W-30. I think it's partly because, back when those multi-grade oils first came out, if there was too much of a range in viscosity, they really could start causing problems when that stuff broke down. Most of my cars have also been old battlecruisers that I'd just put straight 30W oil in, and never had a problem with. In fact, the first car I ever had that I put a multigrade in, almost self-destructed immmediately! It was an '82 Cutlass Supreme with a 231 V-6. I bought it used with about 61K miles on it, and had been using straight 30 for about 10K miles. Well, one of my friends was telling me that a multi-grade oil like 10W-30 would be better for it. Well, within less than 1000 miles after changing to 10W-30, it lost all oil pressure!

Maybe I do need to get with the times, though! Would it be safe though, after all this time, to switch from 10W-30 to 5W-30? I'm just wondering, if the car is aging and things are loosening up a bit, if I might actually need to go to a heavier weight?

mike372

much different than the 'battlecruiser' engines of the past, such as Chevy 350 motors. Todays engines are 24 valves, DOHC, aluminum heads and block. They just wont do in a high power speedboat that the Chevy 350's were used in. In other words, they will not take all the abuse. So maybe thats why Dodge recommends that 5W30 be the preferred oil in the 2.7 liter Trep motors.

emale

you guys wanna hear something strange....both my v8 ford supercrew and "rented" honda v6 accord take 5w20 oil!! talk about weird...at least to me. but, i'm using what's recommended and everything seems hunky dorey!

andre...i doubt it would hurt your car to put 5w30 in it. in fact if i remember right, dodge on the 3.2l and 3.5l recommended 5w30 if temps were gonna be below freezing. otherwise 10w30 was recommended. anyway, lighter at startup is good for a motor since that's where most of the wear/tear occurs...

andre1969

yup, I just checked the owner's manual, and for the 3.2, it recommends 10W-30 for temps 0 degrees and up, and 5W-30 for tems 32 and below. In fact, there's actually a note that says "5W-30 oil is allowed for use in 3.2 engines during cold weather only to improve cold weather starting".

My only concern now with switching to 5W-30 is that now, with almost 88K miles of my car having 10W-30, I'm worried that it might do something to it. Even if the 10W-30 wasn't that great for it, I'm concerned that maybe the car has gotten "used" to it, as far as gaskets, seals, clearances, etc, and if I put 5W-30 in it, it might not be enough anymore. I'll probably give it a try though, at the next oil change. Since I'm not driving nearly as much now, I'll probably start changing every 2K, instead of 3-3.5K like I had been doing. So I'm guessing my next change will be sometime in January.

pat

emale - please send me an email, I really need to hear from you.

andre1969

a couple deleted posts...looks like I missed the dirty talk last nite! :-(

pat

Given that my message appears right after those "deleted posts" perhaps I should mention that I am not the one who removed them. My message has nothing to do with that at all. :-)

Jason5

Mike..

   Sorry for that title--couldn't resist. Nothing "bad" will happen if you move from conventional oil to synthetic. As I mentioned in a previous discussion--because I am doing excessive highway driving and using synthetics and a high quality filter--I often allow my oil to go from 5000-7500 miles. My last oil change duration was just over 7000 miles--and the oil was fairly clean (and clear) and I NEVER ADDED A DROP in the duration. Hard to believe but true! That being said I am well beyond the break in period (at 75,000 miles). I'll keep you all apprised of how the work being done today progresses..

snapper_doggie

Dark blue with just over 30,000 miles. Car is in great shape and I am buying it under private party from a lease return.

Quetion: Should I go through with the purchase?

I liked the way the car felt during the test drive. My concerns are with reliability and quality of the car(american car- no offense!). For 9500 it seems like a great deal, but I don't want to buy the car and have it fall apart and start rattling after 1 year. I saw an Intrpid that had paint oxidizing(maroon color), is tis a concern? Any other concerns/ advice? Thanks in advance!

mike372

I was the one who wrote those messages and deleted them because I had to do some more research on the topic.

Jason5

Seems like a reasonable deal--if you have concerns you might consider an aftermarket extended warranty and see if you can bargain that into (or out of) the final price. I have never seen--nor heard--of difficulty with paint oxidation on the Intrepids. If you see it on a current generation-- I suspect it's self-inflicted due to negligence and/or environmental considerations.
    Most of us have discovered that our front ends have damage from flying debris and abrasives--but that's to be expected. Good luck and enjoy--whatever your final choice may be..