Older Acura TLs

igiban

22.5 mpg for a small I4 on premium is a bit less than desired, but I've heard that TL (tho on V6) is worse (below 20 on ave.). Accord V6 might have the best mpg and also on regular.

TSX trunk is sure less than Accord as expected but is somehow bigger than TL. But it has longer turning radius (less nimble in turns) than TL. Both kinda surprise me as I'd expect it to be the other way around.

As to rattles between TL (more) and TSX (less), could it be that TSX is made in Japan and TL in US? Well but Accord is made in US as well..

soljc

Just curious what you paid for the TSX, which was actually the car I was targeting with my budget. But what I found was that here in the northeast (brutal winter) there was an abundance of TLs (around 50 on the lot) but not nearly as many as TSXs (about 5 on the lot). I hear Acura is only producing 17,000 TSXs this year, which probably explains part of the supply issue.

Negotiating prices, I was able to get around $2k off MSRP for the TL, but only about $500 for the TSX, which made the difference only around $4k.

habitat1

As an owner of an S2000, I concur with your assessment that Honda has the engineering prowess to compete with the likes of BMW and Porsche when it chooses to.

Unfortunately, it hasn't chosen to do so with respect to its coupe / sedan offerings, which remain FWD only. The S2000 is a ground up roadster that has very little application in the main stream Honda/Acura offerings.

I, for one, might take issue with CR's claim that the new TL "outshines" the BMW 330i in any performance category. I had the chance to drive a 330i 6-speed with performance package and, in spite of giving up 35hp to the TL (235 vs. 270), was just as quick, easier to launch and the handling was way, way above the TL's. Unfortunately it also comes in at $42k+ comparably equiped and, at that point, I'd be tempted to pay the extra $8k for an M3.

As much as I have speculated, I'm not sure a RWD TL makes good business sense for Acura. The car is clearly one of, if not the best FWD sporty family sedans out there. What it lacks in true sports sedan character, it makes up for in versitility and exceptional build quality and reliability. However, the RL is another matter. Ther is virtually no car from Japan that competes with the BMW 5-series. The Lexus GS was a pretty weak attempt and handles like a Buick; the Infiniti M45 was a non event from the moment of introduction. So there is an opening if Acura has the intestinal fortitude to take it on. Acura was pretty bold with the early 1990's Legend GS 6-speed; I'd like to see them regain a little spunk and put out a serious RWD sport sedan to give a 5-series shopper (like me) something to think about. The last thing we need is another cure for insomnia like the other aforementioned offerings from Lexus and Infiniti.

johnny420

I paid $26,300 with the protection package thrown in (all weather mats, trunk tray and wheel locks) two months ago. I had to call around to get that deal, and I ended up driving 300 miles to get the car I wanted.

What I did get was a very nice trade-in price for my 2000 EX V6, sight unseen, which made swallowing the close-to-MSRP price easier.

BTW, from what I understand, Acura has sold approx. 19,000 TSX's to date, which is still far short of the 80,000 projected '04 TL's Acura intends to sell. It does seem that TSX prices are dropping somewhat, but I'm sure it depends on where you live. Maybe we'll see more movement as we get closer to the release date for the '05 TSX's.

The TSX is a fun car, one that I'm still getting used to, but the TL is nicer IMO, as is to be expected given the price.

Johnny

kahunah

Today, I took my 2004 TL into the dealer for the first oil change. While the car was there, we took care of the minor squeaks and rattles that would intermittently occur. I say we because I actively got involved with the problem solving process.

First, the sunroof rattle:
In message #5003 on this board, I described the problem and the cause in great detail. I also indicated that it would be an easy fix, and it was. At my suggestion, the service technician placed (glued) a 4x1 inch piece of black foam rubber (approx. 3/8" thick, dead center in the canal where the retractable wind deflector sits and it did the trick. This stopped the wind deflector from vibrating when the sunroof was closed. No more sunroof rattle!

Next, the passenger side dashboard squeak:
This phenomena would happen when I drove over rough roads. However, I notice that when I opened the glovebox door, the squeaks would disappear, and then reappear when the glove box was closed. In this case, the service technician adjusted the striker slightly further in, so that the glovebox door would be closed more tightly, and that did the trick. No more dashboard squeaks!!

The car now feels and sounds more solid. Just wish they could do something about the rough roads in this town.

nowakj66

Thanks for the comparison of TL, TSX and Accord. The Sticker on an Accord EX 5 speed manual with leather is only a few thousand less than a TSX but at intro of the TSX, local dealers were getting straight sticker. I ended up paying $21,600 for the Accord which to me was a great deal. The Acura TSX at that time was merely an okay deal relative to teh Honda. To be expected when a car is first intro'd.

The deals on Acuras are getting better and maybe if I had to do it over again today I would have gotten the TL ot TSX. As it is, I feel like I need to get at least 3 years out of the Accord to not get killed on resale.

gcruzsmith

San Diego has had its share of nasty winter weather - for us that means heavy rains

I am wondering if anyone out there who owns an '04 WDP TL has noticed "discoloration" on the bumper. The body itself is still the shiny white pearl however, I am noticing the bumber to be slightly pale yellow??

I am suspecting that it may be the dirt and grime that was picked up from the wet roads. I washed the car but I am still noticing the color difference?

Would anyone know if using a "Clay Bar" would help? Or should I have my car detailed and waxed?

Thanks

bmd

gcruzsmith : I picked up my Silver/Ebony today & noticed that the bumper color is a little bit different than the body. The salesman said it is just the angle you are looking at distort the color. Well, I tried & only at one particular angle, the color is ok but overall I will say they look discolor to me, too!

msf2

Just read your post about tires from a few day's ago. I don't have my TL yet but I already purchased Falken 512's to replace the Turanza's before I take delivery. I noticed some rough spots and road noise during the test drive, and I like the idea of keeping the Turanza's for trade, resale, or even to use later on.
I should be getting a Red/Parchment w/Navi next weekend. I'll post on the ride then.
I chose the Falken's based on reviews I've read.

pmf13

Where did you read the reviews of the Falkens? They are not on the Tirerack website so far as I've seen.

grri03

Finally got a bluetooth-enabled cell phone. For those TL owners that haven't yet: HURRY!! It is so easy to link and use and what quality sound. Using a normal voice, a passanger in the back seat of my car was able to carry on an easy conversation with a caller. A great safety item, not to mention a cool gadget.

jimxo

Acura is a nice car for the money but has never been close to Lexus in quality or image. I would not hesitate to buy an Acura but I can still feel the difference between the two. As for BMW 5 series and other BMW's it's now up to them to build a car as good as Lexus. If you guys want to get away from the Honda cheap feel you need to step up Lexus if you got the green. I cant see why I would buy anything more than a Honda Accord V6 with a stick.

True sports cars are RWD. I hope BMW has learned there lesson but by the looks of the new stuff it appears not, power is not everything.

It's obvious I have a few Lexus cars in my driveway but only cause I wanted the best.

bodble2

Hmmm...just what "image" might that be for Lexus? Being old, boring, and impotent?

bodble2

somehow I doubt BMW is too worried over Lexus staking any claim to their market. Is there ANY Lexus that is a worthy direct competitor to ANY BMW? The IS300 is closest, I suppose, if Lexus can give it more power and a less boy-racer, import-tuner look.

msf2

Check out 1010tire.com. They are pretty good and have several customer reviews. If you decide to purchase the tires try edgeracing.com.
Let us know what you do!

car3

Acura is close to Lexus's quality/reliability. I can care less about image. I don't know why everybody cares about an emblem on the hood of a car. Everybody says Acura lacks prestige. Yeah they do but what does that have to do with anything when your purchasing a car? Take the BMW or Lexus emblem off the hood and would people be saying how prestigous those cars are? Probably not. Lexus and BMw are very good but I am getting tired of this needs to be RWD or they lack prestige.

gcruzsmith

bmd: thanks for your comment. I am surprised that you have noticed it on your silver TL.

I do notice that the tone changes depending on the angle you are looking at it. The bumper is also "plastic" as opposed to the car being metal.

I gave the car a good clean, and used a clay bar and waxed it like crazy. The color is back to normal but I still sense a little different in color. Oh well, I guess when it comes to noticing scratches, bumps, swirls and chips (that no one else sees) - that's a good sign that you are totally in love with your TL

danny1878

if they can beat TL in speed/handling
if the car is not for old goats
if the car has better features
if the car is more quieter than TL

Actually its not a bad idea if I buy an ES330, I would have gotten more money in my pocket. Its cheaper than TL msrp only 31k.

4 door sedan is not a true sport car. If you assume that your 4 door lexus is a sport car just by having a RWD then you must be dreaming.

If you happen to have bought them, well you can start lurking in TL forum and have fun

habitat1

I partly agree.

As someone who has the "green" and is seriously considering a GX470, I do believe Lexus offers more of a premium luxury product over their Toyota counterparts than Acura does over Honda.

On the other hand, I've driven virtually every Lexus model at one time or another, save for the boy racer IS300 and chickmobile RX300. There isn't one model that offers anything approaching BMW driving dynamics. Not even close. I probably would have owned a GS400 a few years ago if I didn't drive it back to back with a lowly 528i. If you think BMW needs to chase Lexus on the "driving" front, you have a major missing part in you sensory system.

Lexus seems quite comfortable with it's postion as the pinnacle of Japanese luxury. And that's fine, because there are apparantly a lot of luxury buyers out there who don't look beyond leather, wood, Mark Levinson, and do-dads out the wazoo. But as far as driving dynamics goes, I respectfully suggest that you are the (obviously proud) owner of two Toyotas. Personally, I could live with that for the GX470, since I am prepared to trade luxury and utility for sport in our SUV. But the likelihood of me ever owning an LS430 now that I have the "green" is the same as me owning a Oldsmobile or Buick 20 years ago when I didn't.

P.S. I haven't pulled the trigger on the GX yet, partly because of a range of problems (transmission clunking, etc.) being reported in that forum which I am further investigating. There have even been a couple of buy-backs reported. The Honda Pilot forum is devoid of such complaints.

jrock65

"Is there ANY Lexus that is a worthy direct competitor to ANY BMW?"

I'd say that the LS430 is a better overall car than the 745Li at a lower price. Direct comparos seem to feel this way also. Of course, the 745Li will handle better, but that's about the only significant advantage it has. And truth be told, very few people buy cars this large to take through the twisties.

Acura uses nice materials, but Lexus materials are just a bit better, except maybe the IS300.

automophile

Over the years, the bumpers on my Solara gradually became darker than the body of the car.

My excellent body shop says that this is a result of chemicals leaching out of the Polyurethane bumper material, discoloring the paint. You can see this on nearly EVERY light colored car with plastic bumpers.

I haven't yet noticed this on my TL. They said that Honda had better primers and less problems than most.

My discoloration on the Solara went away when I re-painted the bumpers.

03oddity

that the topic of this forum is the 2004 Acura TL? For Toyota (excuse me, Lexus) owners who want to compare vehicles there is a "Near Luxury Performance Sedan" thread as well as an "Acura TL vs Lexus ES330" forum. Let's all acknowledge that Acuras are really nice and slightly overpriced Hondas while Lexuses (Lexi?) are really nice and severely overpriced Toyotas, and move on!

Host Pat must have the weekend off... ;-) Looking forward to my long-awaited test drive this week!

igiban

"Let's all acknowledge that Acuras are really nice and slightly overpriced Hondas while Lexuses (Lexi?) are really nice and severely overpriced Toyotas"

That might be true on the msrp basis but not on the actualy street prices. TL is selling higher than ES now. I own an ES and am looking to get another sedan. I'd love to get another sedan that's as superb as ES for its everything, except maybe its non-sporty look. Not that I have a problem with ES look actually as I think it looks elegant, just that to add another one it only makes sense to get one with something that ES does not have. I thought TL is the ticket. But the slew of new TL's build problems reported so far make me wonder why pay more than an ES just to get the sporty look and power (nice but probably more than needed most of the time) and lose out on the quality front. Now I am even looking at TSX that shares many virtues with TL but smaller. TSX seems to report less problems than TL and just like ES, it's Japan built. I hope Acura can improve TL's quality problems soon.

jimxo

BMW would be the last of the three I would buy. A friend of mine owns a repair shop and he said if it were not for BMW he would be out of business. Honda and Toyota's aka Acura and Lexus are in for basic service such as brakes and timing belts.

I know BMW's are faster and Acura's handle better but Lexus builds the best mouse trap period.

Acura are great cars but there not the best. When I put the hammer down on my GS430 the car roars and pulls hard all the way up to 150. I took a one day class with Lexus driving school last year for $395.00. We drove new Lexus cars off the dealer lots at Elkhart Lake race track in Wisconsin-wow! What a day, you would not believe what the GS and IS are capable off. They showed us how to throw these cars around like only pro could do. I could only imagine what a well tuned Acura or BMW would do. Most of us would never drive our cars that hard but it was comforting to know what they can do when pushed to the limit. I can see where a FWD drive car would have a harder time on one of these courses. Acura needs to get away from only FWD drive cars and V6 motors and offer a V8 with RWD to compete at the next level.

pat

03oddity is right - there are more appropriate places to continue this conversation on our Sedans Comparison board.

Let me know if you need any help finding anything.

:-)

car3

Just because its Japanese built don't make it better. The TSx has been out longer than the TL thats why there is probably less poblems with the TSx. The 02+ Es300/Es330 I heard about the 5 speed auto tranny having problems. The Es has been out for 3 years so I hope Toyota would have the bugs worked out of it. You can't base the quality/reliability of the TL off the first year of bodystyle. The only thing thats a real concern to me is the tire problem on the 04 TL. The last generation TL had good reliability with the exception of the tranny and it was built in the Us whic were shipped from Japan. Don't ever think just because a car is built here its inferior to a model that is built in Japan.

igiban

"Don't ever think just because a car is built here its inferior to a model that is built in Japan."

True. But if we have a poll for which one would buyers prefer a TL made, US or Japan, if there were such a choice. Which one do you think the poll will come out?

"You can't base the quality/reliability of the TL off the first year of bodystyle."

Why not? That's exactly one good way to measure how good a company handles its new product introduction. Sure another way is to see how quickly they work their issues out. But if this 04 TL's quality is really bad, think people would not hesitate buying another 1st year Acura in the future. It matters a lot. I bot two 1s year Hondas b4 and they were all problem-free.

On ES tranny its a 'known SW mystery'. Some have it and some don't. Mine never had a problem. But I know not every TL has rattle or seat memory or flatspotting problem either. On Lexus quality, I've noticed many Lexus boards at Edmunds don't even have Problems and Solutions threads. I wonder why?

billyperks

"rattle or seat memory or flatspotting problem ."

If these are all the problems the 04 TL has-YIPEEEEE!!!!!

Those are minor tweaks.

bodble2

Seat memory: If there is a problem, Honda will fix sooner or later under warranty. So not a concern.

Flatspotting: I have the same tires on my Accord and have not encountered any problem. Even if problem comes up on TL, a few hundred $$$ for tire-upgrade will fix. So again I'm not losing any sleep over this one.

Rattles: Now, I must say I do hate rattles, squeaks and groans. But this issue is a crapshoot with any manufacturer. I hear about rattles (pardon the pun) on Audis, MB, BMW, and even Toyotas! So I don't think I can safeguard against rattles just by avoiding Acura/Honda.

2003tls

Most of the discoloration is due to the fact that the bumpers are plastic and the rest of the car is metal. However, this difference is REALLY obvious on Pearl White cars (i.e. White Diamond Pearl). And it is especially noticable on US built cars (like the TL) versus Japan built cars (TSX and RL) due to different air pollution standards concerning the painting process during manufacturing. This is for all cars and makes, not just the TL. And yes, the difference will get more obvious over time.

pat

are created when an Owners Club is established for any particular vehicle, not for any other reason. Whether one exists, or some other "Problems" discussion exists, and how many posts any of them receive can never be relied on to indicate problems or lack of problems in any given car.

That said, let me say again that this is not the place to discuss Lexus anything.

Let me know if you need help finding an appropriate discussion.

Thanks!

03oddity

Went to Cerritos Acura in SoCal today and asked to drive an 04 TL auto with nav. Told 'em right up front I was not going to buy a car today. Pleasant sales guy had me drive a nondescript green/parchment TL around a 1-1.5 mile circuit (four right turns). Long enough to figure out this is a pleasant, comfortable, tight car with the suggestion of a lot of nice handling characteristics and a boatload of power--but way too short to put it through any paces. Also couldn't evaluate the ride on bad pavement because Cerritos is compulsive about street maintenance, unlike the rest of LA County.

Got to play with the nav system briefly and listen to the nice stereo (yep, it takes FOREVER to fire up). The voice-command system understands me just fine. Can anyone say "diction"? The drive-by-wire throttle seemed a bit nonlinear to me--sort of uneven, underpowered and a little squirrelly off the line, then smoothing out once you get moving. I did not "get" the strange auto-manual tranny setup although I do understand how it works; it's just not something I can see myself using. Seats are comfy and the interior seems well laid out, yet it has a definite Japanese high-tech sensibility that is almost a retro caricature--sort of like my Panasonic compact stereo. More sporty than frankly luxurious. Floor mats are an embarrassment. Trunk space is a little on the small side but looks adequate. The engine compartment is a thing of beauty--and that is one honkin' sway bar. But how do the mechanics get to all those little wires behind the engine and up against the firewall? You just hope they never have to, I guess.

Their newspaper ad claims Cerritos is the biggest Acura dealer in the area and that they have 140 TLs "available," but they only keep a few on the lot. Internet manager says that only 9% of new TLs have nav but that Acura is indeed getting a clue and starting to ramp up production of the nav cars. Did not see any of the popular color combos, nor indeed my favored Abyss Blue. Did not see any ebony or quartz interiors, only camel and parchment.

TL auto with nav seems like a fine choice in the low $30K range. I've got another 3-4 months to play with while awaiting Saab lease-end, so one hopes that the excellent East Coast deals will start to work their way west.

Isn't this sort of what it was like when we were kids waiting for Santa to come?

automophile

I must disagree that it is due to being over plastic.

1. My Solara degraded over time, and looked fine once it had been re-painted.

2. My TL looks perfect now - the plastic and the metal are identical.

However, it is possible that in some cases the plastic may not be prepared properly, and is not as smooth as the metal, giving a different "look".

kfhmail

There have been a few posts where people have said that Acura is probably ramping/increasing the production of TLs with the NAV and maybe in a few months the supply of Navs will be better.

If ACURA is not producing enough Navs by now, will they be able to before they have to change over for the 2005 production run.

Has anyone seen an increase in the ratio of Navs to non-Navs?

Anyone know when they start building/producing the 2005 TL. My guess would be no later than July...

If this is so, then there are only 4 more months of production for the 04.

pmf13

Thanks to all three of you for responding to my tire inquiry. I take delivery of my TL on Thursday and have to get a couple of tire quotes before deciding which replacement to go with. I'll let you know how it works out.

gcruzsmith

Thank you both for your message posts regarding "bumper discoloration". I started showing concern and compared my 99 Honda Accord (taffeta white) which did not have the discoloration bumper color. However, with the WDP TL I am starting to notice it. Would you know if this has anything to do with "metallic" paint. It is basically fixable and I can deal with that.

Thanks again - I appreciate your responses!

fredvh

A number of years ago we had a DOT requirement that all new cars had to have a bumper that would survive a "minor" 5 miles-per-hour collision. This requirement was changed and it is too bad. Some manufacturers still make their bumpers to the old standard but most do not. As someone once said: "This is not brain surgery" referring to making a bumper survive a minor 5 mph crash. GM could have easily done it and now they are considering a bumper redesign for the new Malibu. Why did they not do it in the original design? They say that their vehicle meets all current Federal Safety Standards but why not make them better. The new Malibu was supposed to be a "new start" for much improved quality and design at GM but I wonder if it is really so. The 2004 TL and TSX also did poorly in the bumper test.

billyperks

Take it from me- All the cars that I have owned are Pearl White, you just have to live with the slight change in the bumper color.

It is not that drastic.

I have the WDP 03 TLS and the bumper color is a little off - all I do is Zaino the car and watch my neighbors marvel at the shine.

bobcatman

Why did they use the felt like material on the rear wheel well area? Looks it will rot and rip with all the water exposure.

bodble2

It does look a little weird, but I figure it should be OK. It's like artificial turf, or indoor/outdoor carpeting. Should be weather-proof.

kahunah

... is a weatherproof, sound deadening material design to reduce road noise.

kenm8

April issue of Road and Track has a full road test of the 2004TL. April issue of Automobile mentions that Acura will have AWD soon(?) and has an article comparing an AWD and FWD of one brand of car to an AWD and FWD of another brand. One of its conclusions is that if you live in states that don't have snow, that AWD really is not needed.

kenm8

One brand of car had an AWD and FWD and the other brand had an AWD and RWD.

gcruzsmith

I know the '04 TL body slightly resembles the BMW with its side lights and indented molding.

I was at a stop light this afternoon and noticed a BMW 3 series next to me. The side lights were blinking when his turn signal was on.

Just wondering if the '04 TL has this capability with its side lights. I turned on the signal when I was parked in my garage and didn't see the side lights blinking. Is this normal?

Thanks

kahunah

Unfortunately, the side marker lights do not blink when a turn signal is on. I suspect it may have to do with patent infringement. They only blink when the door lock button on the key fob is pressed to activate the security system.

automophile

This is one of the major screw-ups from Acura on the TL.

Not only did they cheat us of the very effective turn signals on the side mirrors that are on the lower-end TSX, but the side lights don't even blink! Really D'Oh! and one of my major criticisms of the car.

One enterprising poster on another Acura forum did it himself with a couple of relays and diodes, so it CAN be done.

03oddity

You mean to tell me the side marker lights have no useful function--unlike every European car including my Saab, whose side turn signals add an extra measure of safety--AND they made the rear turn signals red instead of yellow so other drivers can't quickly discern your intentions!? On LA freeways that's tantamount to suicide.

I'm glad I have 3 months to think about this...this is indeed a MAJOR screwup and a probable deal-breaker for me. BTW, I doubt very much there is any issue of patent infringement. Seems more like cluelessness and a lack of proper safety engineering. Makes me worry about what else they blew off.

Can you say "recall"??

danny1878

Check this out
Feb 2004 sales report
G35---- sales 3439 units, Jan 3382 units ->up by 57 units
ES330 sales 5546 units, Jan 5254 units >up by 292 units
TL------- sales 6274 units, Jan 5036 units ->up by 1238 units
330i less than 1000, as usual

Good and bad news!

jrock65

So basically, the side lights are there for style? Neither the yellow side lights near the front, nor the red side lights near the back blink?

That's kind of weird.

shs111

I scraped against a guardrail in my parking garage last night, ending up in a couple of stripes of white paint on the plastic fender. Advice? Can an auto detailer buff this out?