Older Acura TLs

orange_peel

I have already pre-ordered discwelder bronze (i found it for $89 - do a google search). I understand that the "minus" (dvd-r,dvd-rw) format will work in the TL. I don't think you could get 40 hours of music. I think you are limited to 99 tracks (i.e., 99 songs) on one DVD.

kcc455

Does anyone know exactly what the A-spec. suspension components are and prices? I am not interested in the spoilers or the 18" wheels, just the shocks, springs, etc. to improve handling. How is the ride with the A-spec. package?
Thank you.

mitchflorida

Try driving on the expressway at around 60 miles per hour with your trunk left wide open. The vibration noise is incredible. Has anyone else tried this?

raher

or...try driving with the windows down, the trunk lid open and the hood open. Don't forget to open the sun roof also. AAAh the sound of the wind rushing past. It's a prototype for a TL convertible

legend91

Thats the word I was looking for. Of course you get wind and noise in all cars at hiway speeds but the TL was the most "resonant" of any car I've tried.

It was a test drive folks. Do I need to define test?

And, you might need to do this when the blue lights start flashing in your rear view mirror and you need to quickly clear the smoke from the cabin

mikeyk

If you get the 18" wheels, do they come with better tires than the bridgestones?

Can you get all-season tires on the 18" standard? or do they only come with performace summer tires?

jpiatchek

I think you will find this same situation with a number of the vehicles today. It is quite often referred to on boards of other makes. Try a different combination of windows down or part way or sunroof open, ect.

jpiatchek

For those of you that don't want the EL42's you might talk to your dealer. They probably have some summer tire takeoffs-the Potenza RE030's in the back just sitting there for when they substituted the 18" tires and wheels. My dealer was willing to substitute these for the EL42's at no charge to make the deal. In my opinion, they are are much better tire than the EL42's and one of the magazines showed the TL doing 87g on the skidpad with the Potenza's.Mifht be worth a try.

automophile

Thanks for the tip on Discwelder Bronze (What a WEIRD name).Please let us know if it works. This would be a great benefit for our DVD audio systems.

I have been considering adding a second changer in the rear for MP3 and other CDs, keeping only DVDs in the front changer.

legend91

The resonance just seemed so strong in the TL compared to other cars. I rarely open any windows at hiway speeds. 2 rear was the only bad combination.

Others pointed out that today's cars are so well insulated and airtight the air has no where to go but back out as pressure builds. Notice how the rear windows are split and the smaller back portion does not open. Thus, the small opening might make for a more extreme resonance.

Not a problem as I ordered a black /camel / auto / navi today. $1200 off MSRP. My '91 Legend will seem really old for the next 3 weeks...

automophile

This has nothing to do with the car's air-tightness, but rather with the shape of the car. As cars become more aerodynamic with smoother air flow over them, this problem may be come more prevalent.

Poorly design cars have a lot of air turbulence around them, so the smooth flow over the opening will not form. Only when the air flow is smooth can you make this happen. You can cut it a bit by opening one of the front windows a little. This lets air flow OUT the back window. spoiling the smooth air flow and cutting the effect.

legend91

Makes sense. Thanks

r2s2

"And, you might need to do this when the blue lights start flashing in your rear view mirror and you need to quickly clear the smoke from the cabin "

So you drive while impaired? Smart. Remind me to stay away from Atlanta.

burry

My new 2004 TL in on order (3-5 weeks) and I have already decided to puchase 18" wheels. Acura wants $1500 (over $1700 installed) which does not include the tires. I have ordered 18x8 Millie Maglia Action wheels ($239 each) and 235/40ZR18 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Max performance Summer Tires ($186 each) from Tire Rack ($1,763.86 total delivered and Mounted). The tires are very popular (#1 in TireRack survey) but very hard to get due to demand. Has anyone else purchased these tires and/or wheels. I also plan on doing a partial trade for the 17" EL42s ($165 each) for the Turanza LS-Z Grand touring All-Season ($216). These were also rated #1 in the Tire Rack survey for that category. Will use the summer tires from April - September and all season for the winter months since I live in New York. Any comments or suggestions on my decisions ?? Also , I am getting my TL for $2315 under MSRP. Dealer has at least 15 on the lot but I decided to factory order.

nowakj66

Hello burry - did you factory order because they did not have the combo of interior color, exterior color and navi-non navi you wanted?

My Central Ohio dealer has noted that there is little demand here for the 6 speed manual on the TL. They original ordered 20% with the 6 speed. Now they order significantly less 6 speeds and may go to special order only.

burry

I ordered my TL from the factory cause I just like the concept of getting a brand new vehicle that has not been on the lot for awhile. The dealer had exactly what I wanted (6-speed w/navi Silver/Ebony) as well as just about every other color with/without navi and 6 speed/auto. They even offered to throw in the summer tires at no additional cost. But, as I mentioned in my previous post, I want to upgrade the tires.

jfgobraves

Does the 2004 acura tl have rca inputs in the back of the radio so i can connect my ipod to it?

raher

I put a set of LSZ's on my 04 TL about 2500 miles ago. Major improvement in every aspect. Car handles better, rides smother and is much quieter. I believe you will like these tires

carguy58

Why can't Honda just have a recall on the tires already? These tires on the current TL I think are recieving enough complaints to where Honda has to do something about this. Honda did something about the TL/CL/Accord V6 tranny's(I am one of those people)and sent notes to the owners of those cars about an extended warranty on the Tranny's. Why not do something with the current tire situation?

automophile

The XM receiver is in the trunk. There are line level cables from there to the head unit. You can interrupt them at either end to install a switch to bring in your iPod through the XM input.

pulisubs

Hi,

I was originally shopping for a Lexus RX330 but after I test drove a 6-Spd TL, I'm 'smitten'. We're looking to replace our 97 4Runner Limited and decided we'll get an entry level luxury Sedan for my daily commute.

What ticked me off was that the dealership in Orlando doesn't seem to care much about customers. True, I told the guy I'm there only for a test drive but the guy didn't take my number, didn't bother to follow up. Perhaps because TLs are in demand these days. He did explain every feature of the car and how it compares with the G35 though, to be fair to him.

Now contrast this with the Lexus dealership where we test drove both a manual IS and the ES. They made us comfortable, sat down to discuss if they could do anything to make me buy the car and I've already received couple of phone calls following up.

Is this typical Acura dealer customer service? Am I missing something? Is it part of their mind-games where they expect to 'soften' the customer by behaving that way? Or is Lexus really losing the race?

Of course, I don't have to buy there. But just wondering if people had similar experience. I got better response from Toyota even when the '04 Sienna's were hugely in demand and low on supply.

hoyahenry

Pulisubs, I had the same experience you describe at the Lexus dealer. I think that there are certain things I said that cued the salesman to know that I was only interested in the information. I didn't say I was "not ready to buy", but it was paraphrased in so many words.

He was polite and professional. I received a brochure with a business card attached, and he took the time to answer every question I asked, even when I hesitated between questions trying to process the next one. There was no limit on the test drive time; I decided when it was over.

I will go back the next time I am in the market again for a car, but I am enjoying the TL.

That said, I would suspect that your Lexus salesman had not yet made quota.

habitat1

I may very well end up with a new TL as a replacement for my Maxima, so don't take what I'm about to say as derogatory to the TL.

The idea of spending $1,800 for 18" wheels and 40 series ZR rated tires on a FWD sedan is absolutely nuts, IMHO. It's not going to transform a front heavy car into a BMW 5 series. It's going to marginally improve the FWD handling and force you to spend $800 every 20-25k miles in replacement tires.

I'm not a tire cheapskate, as my planned purchase next week of Bridgestone Pole Position W rated tires at $200 each should prove. But they are going on my Honda S2000, not my Nissan Maxima. The latter of which has served as a very sporty sedan for 150k miles on 3 sets of $400 per set tires.

Spend your money as you wish, but if you really want performance and handling above all, you might want to consider buying a 330i Performance or, better yet, an M3. Even a lowly 325ci will run handling circles around a TL, no matter how many $ thousands are spent on tire upgrades.

P.S. I'm not a BMW lover, either, having never owned one. I just know the difference between the best available FWD "sporty" sedan and one of the best available true RWD sport sedans on the market. And the difference isn't in the rubber.

flipper6

Bought a TL silver/ebony 6 speed with nav about two months ago. So far I am very pleased. First dealer we went to was excellent with adequate test drive and knowledge of car. Except I could not get a price quote because I made the mistake of telling him I was not planning to purchase that day. Instead he gave information about the quality of the service department. The next day went to another dealer and purchased the car. I would think the first dealer, after two test drives, would have wanted to give a price.

I have had similar experiences with Toyota so it may depend more on the policy of the dealer rather than the actual car brand you buy.

raher

I am not sure your observations on tires and the handling of the TL are accurate. Better tires are an improvement on any vehicle regardless of what drive train. The LSZ tires I put on my TL are guaranteed for 40K so your comment about needing new tires and spending $800 in 25K doesn't seem to add up. The tires were the #1 rated touring tire in the Tirerack survey and I am sure the survey was based on vehicles with FWD and RWD. I put the best tires I could find on the car because my wife drives it most of the time. I have 2500 miles on the tires and they have been worth every penny I paid in every aspect, including handling.
LOL on your comments about the BMW 325ci. 14 of them just got whipped by a TSX in the SCAA opening race. The 330i and the TL are certainly close enough in every aspect to be rated a dead heat except the 330i costs a lot more for no added value. You are correct in saying the difference isn't in the rubber...but in fact where is the difference other than the price ?

kyfdx

Turanza LS-Zs are great tires, but they are all seasons.. And good luck trying to collect on any tire mileage warranty.

25K is about normal life for an 18" summer performance tire.

Your performance may actually decrease by adding 18" tires.. Certainly, they will weigh more, increasing unsprung weight and possibly negatively affecting off-the-line acceleration.

And the cost is unreal. Another poster just replaced the 18" stock rear tires on his BMW 330i at costco and got a "deal". $480 OTD for the TWO tires.

Habitat is right on the money. 18" and larger tires are all about the looks, not the performance.

regards,
kyfdx

raher

My LSZ's are on the stock 17" wheels. I paid $800 for 4 tires at Costco. Cost is always relative to who is buying them..expensive to some is not expensive to others. Besides LSZ ratings seem to indicate they are worth more. Considering the OEM EL 42's aren't really cheap and are a piece of crap I think the improvement has been worth it. Summer tires are part time tires where I live..all seasons are the only viable option unless you want to spring for two sets of tires which is the ideal solution.
I am assuming you mean the wheel will weigh more on the 18" as the tire shouldn't weigh more.
I guess 18" tires cost more and that is always puzzling...less material costs more.

kyfdx

To keep the same rolling diameter, the 18" wheels and tires will be wider. This is where the greater weight happens..

Example:
stock 325i has 205/55-16 tires.
sport 325i has 225/45-17 tires.

The wheels and tires are both heavier, though you are correct, most of it is in the wheels.

Your LSZs are great tires.. I have LS-H on my Acura Legend, and love them... but, I recommend against 18" tires in all cases.

regards,
kyfdx

habitat1

I certainly wouldn't fault you for putting high quality, good performing all season replacement tires on your TL.

My previous comment was perhaps more directed at the fiscal prudence of replacing stock 17" wheels with 18" ones and going with summer compound 40 series high performance tires. That is certainly overkill, IMO, and, in the case of cars that don't have world class suspensions or near 50/50 weight balance, may actually be counterproductive. According to the manager of my local tire shop, when driven with "enthusiasm" FWD cars have a tendency to plow into curves and wear the tread edge of soft compound tires more quickly, which can in turn lead to handling problems or at least premature replacement.

pg48477

kyfdx, I don't want to start an argument but you are wrong. 18" rims and tires will give you better performance, handling.
You dont need to have wider rims and tires to keep rolling diameter:

TL 17" - 235/45-17
TL 18" - 235/40-18

raher, The gay from tire shop is right, but dont forget RWD when driven with "enthusiasm" have tendency to oversteer and spin rear wheel, so rear tires would not less as long.

msf2

I just received a trunk tray for my TL that I ordered online from an Acura dealer out of State.
I'm not sure I have the right one. I have a TL w/Navi. The trunk tray they sent me doesn't fit the the contours of the trunk. The edges of the tray don't extend to the walls of the trunk. Also,
I think holes need to be cut to accomodate the cargo net?? The holes don't fall on top of the cargo net buttons located on the floor of the trunk. Also, the tray say's "ACURA", shouldn't it say "TL"? Thanks in advance.

dtate99

I got my tray at the time I picked up the car. I don't have navi, so I can't say whether the tray is the exact same or not, but I can't imagine that it would be different. My tray fits flush on all sides except the right, which might be where the navi dvd control sits, or it may just be left open for storage. There are circles on the tray which correspond exactly with the cargo net buttons underneath, but if you cut a hole there, you are defeating the purpose of the tray which is to keep any spills contained within the confines of the tray. By cutting holes, any spillage would seem to find its way down to the carpeting.

Sounds like you were sent the wrong tray in my opinion. Maybe a tray for the TSX?

habitat1

I was the one who quoted my tire shop guy (who I think is straight, but never asked).

Here is the best analogy I can give, which you can agree with or not.

I'm a 8-10 handicapper in golf which is the auto equivalent of a TL. Most of my friends are 10-30. (the equivalents of TL's down to Kia's) One particular 25 handicapper spends about $2,000+ every year on new technology clubs. He has more money than common sense - or golfing skills. He is the equivalent of my old Datsum B210. From a "performance" perspective, his expenditures are a waste of money. He thinks hitting the ball 300 yards is better than hitting it 260. I would claim not if it's landing in the wrong zip code.

If you want to extract the maximum performance out of a TL, perhaps spending $1,800 on wheels and tires is one way to try. But I would respectfully suggest that no FWD sedan is going to match a high performance, well balanced RWD sedan in handling, regardless of tires, suspension upgrades, etc. It's 60%+ front weight biased. It has torque steer. It just defies some basic handling principles. And, while it's likely that my B210 friends $2,000 per year on golf clubs would produce better results in my hands, it's not going to turn me (a TL) into Tiger Woods (an M5).

P.S. My friend with the deep pockets is happy showing off his new clubs every spring. So maybe the $2,000 is worth it in his mind - which I guess is all that really matters.

kyfdx

I'm sorry, but I disagree.. If the wheel combination is heavier (and it is), then the likely result is degraded performance, especially in acceleration. Also, unsprung weight is the enemy of good handling.

By your reasoning, if 18" is better than 17", then you might as well get 20" wheels with 30 series tires. At some point, it is all about looks...

And the 18" tires are wider, even if they have the same section width.. I checked Bridgestone
S-03 on tirerack..

235/45-17.. tread width 9.4"
235/40-18.. tread width 9.7"

If the TL doesn't handle well enough for a front-driver with 235/45-17s, it won't get any better by putting bigger tires on it. The new GTO, which is rear wheel drive and has a 350 HP engine only has 245/45-17.

regards,
kyfdx

habitat1

it's not even just a FWD vs. RWD thing. A friend of mine who currently drives a 540i 6-speed reminded me of his previous experience with a GS400 that he bought back several years ago with the upgraded performance wheel and tire combination directly from Lexus. He is an enthusiastic, but not aggressive, driver and went through a set of tires on the GS400 in under 10,000 miles dues to uneven tire wear along the edges. Lexus gave him a set of the standard tires and wheels back and refunded the amount he paid for the upgrade. It was fairly well documented in other consumer complaints that the performance tire package was a mismatch with the standard - and only - suspension. Body lean and roll of the GS400 was causing excessive tire wear. He has had no such problem with his 540i and, in fact, get's roughly double the life out of even higher performance, lower profile tires that can't be rotated. Clearly, the BMW suspension is several rungs up the ladder from the Lexus one.

I'm with kyfdx, if the TL with standard 17" 235/45's doesn't handle well enough, putting even lower profile, higher performance, softer compund tires on it will more likely result in premature replacement than improved performance. Especially given that there isn't an equivalent sport suspension to go along with the tire upgrade. It wasn't long ago that 60 series tires were considered high performance low profile.

P.S. In checking R&T, there are only a handful of sports cars that achieve a higher slalom speed than the 2002 Honda S2000. Nothing by BMW/M, Audi or Mercedes/AMG does. No version of the 911 does; the only Porsche that does is the Boxster S. The only Ferrari's that do are the Enzo and 360 Modena (Spider doesn't). And the S2000 came standard with 205/55 front and 225/50 rear tires on 16" wheels. In 2004, they jumped to 17" wheels and the slalom speed remained exactly the same. 18" wheels on a FWD TL?? If I were on a budget, I'd be much more inclined to spend $2,000 on the best navigation system in the industry than fruitlessly trying to improve what is already very adequate handling on a FWD sedan.

pg48477

I don't think 0.3" makes a big difference, but if you do it's fine with me.

You right about you golf friend, better clubs wont make him a golfer if fe does not know how to play. Same with cars if you can't drive you will endup racking you car weather it's Enzo or Civic. on the other hand if you can drive, 18" rims and tires can make all the difference, think of it this way Woods with cheap clubs will most likely loose to Woods with good clubs.

You right wider tires take away some performance, but it does add handling. Plus TL has enof power to take on wider, heavier tires. Tl does handle well enof for 17' and if you add 18" it well handle even better.

ctl

I think kyfdx and habitat1 have tried their best in listing the facts and reasonings. What can you do to me though if I insist my bicycle can beat your M5?? (and I have proof too, when traffic is jammed up... but that's not the point, isn't it? ) Objective discussion and knowledge sharing is always enjoyable, do keep it up.

burry

After reading many posts in response to my previous post about ordering 18" wheels and tires I have decided to stick with the 17" wheels. The 18" was more about looks than handling/comfort/performance.
I still plan on upgrading to the Turanza LS-Z tires
and will try to do a partial trade. Has anyone had
any experences with trading new tires ??

kyfdx

I haven't tried it, but I think your best bet might be with a tire retailer, rather than the dealer. If you have a local Firestone retailer that goes by the company name (meaning Firestone is the name of the store), they usually carry the entire line of Bridgestone/Firestone tires.

I believe the original equipment tires are almost expensive as the LS-Zs.. If you could trade for the difference in price, plus maybe $25 a tire for the switch out, I think that might be the best you can hope for. I'd do my shopping well before I got the car though.

I'd be inclined to take an extensive test drive before I decided to do that though. It seems that most posters here only have a problem with the flat-spotting, that goes away within 2-3 miles. This is a pretty small sample of people. I'd want to try them out for myself. You might decide they aren't so bad.. Even if you only got 20K out of them, you'll probably be farther ahead financially than trying to switch them out.

Even the crappiest tires I ever had, I got through 20K before ditching them.

regards,
kyfdx

kenm8

It would be interesting to see a Road and Track full test on an Acura TL that was equipped with the “A” Spec suspension and good 18 inch tires (Yokohama AVS?). Habitat’s previous post on referring to R&T’s slalom data on various cars piqued my interest. This is what I found in the April 2004 issue for slalom speed. I have listed in rank order of fastest speed:

Mini Cooper S 69.5 MPH
Honda S2000 69.3 MPH
Acura RSX Type S 66.8 MPH
BMW M5 66.4 MPH
Acura TL stock (17” Potenza RE 030) 65.8 MPH
BMW 330i 65.4 MPH

How could the inferior FWD non-world class suspension Mini be faster (by a little) than the superior RWD Honda S2000? How could the inferior FWD Acura RSX be faster than the superior RWD BMW M5 and 330i? How could the inferior FWD Acura TL be faster than the superior RWD BMW 330i?

R&T has a sidebar on page 66 of the A-Spec. Maybe fans of the TL can persuade them to test it and see how it stacks up to the other cars such as the M5 or Mini. Even though it has 600+ pounds more than the Mini, how close could it come to the Mini, or could it beat it?

On kind of a related topic, I believe that front-engine RWD cars are not world class in auto racing. Just look at the dinosaurs in NASCAR. State of the art racing (F1,INDY-IRL,CART) abandoned front-engine RWD approx 30+ years ago. In fairness, I understand that their drive train configuration would be difficult/impossible to adapt to a 4-door passenger car.

habitat1

If you still have access to it, please post the lateral g's as well for the above cars you've listed. Since slalom speed is a bit more subjective, the combination of both slalom and lateral g's tends to give a broader picture.

As for the Mini-Cooper, maybe that's a lesson on making cars as short as possible, rather than making tires as big and wide as possible!

Thanks.

kyfdx

That is a very light car, with pretty fat 17" tires.. No surprise, if you've ever driven one.

Also, these tests are done with professional drivers at 10/10ths.. It really doesn't measure how easy it is to drive the car fast at 9/10ths on public roads.

For instance, I had an '84 911 that I'm sure would provide top times in a simulated racing environment, but I'd be darned if I could get over 7/10ths of the performance out of it, for fear of lift-throttle oversteer and my insurance rates. It was still the best car I ever had, even at 7/10ths, but I bet I could leave it behind on a twisty mountain road with my wife's 325i Sport.

regards,
kyfdx

kenm8

Is the slalom test more indicative of a car's handling capabilities than is the skid pad?

Since R&T publishes slalom speeds, we presume they have standardized the course configuration and length (700 ft) and timing equipment. Presume they also use professional test/race drivers driving at 10/10ths. I think that they publish their test procedures from time-to-time and it would be interesting to read these again. So, knowing the slalom capabilities of cars driven by professionals, how does that translate to drivers of average and above average capabilities?

A key question could be: is there a linear relationship between the slalom data for a 10/10ths driver to a 7/10ths (or 5/10ths) driver?
In other words, would the ranking of cars by slalom in the previous post stay the same if we had 5/10ths drivers doing the tests?

What would the slalom numbers be for the Acura TL and S2000, Mini, BMWs, Acura RSX if a driver with only 5/10ths abilities were to do the tests?

Have never driven a Porsche 911, but understand that earlier vintages were unforgiving and it was easy to overdrive one's capabilities and/or do something foolish and swap ends. kydfx seems to be saying that a BMW 325i is more forgiving than an old 911. How forgiving is a BMW vs a TL? Did Consumer Reports testers kind of hint at this?

burry

I talked to the local Firestone Dealer and they will give me $185.55 per for the Turanza EL42 tires on a trade as long as there are less than 100 miles.

kyfdx

Did they say how much the LS-Zs would be? I'm just curious. (and amazed that my advice might have some value)

regards,
kyfdx

burry

Of course they probably jacked up the price but the total cost plus tax will be $471.00 for the trade. I can get the LS-Z elsewhere for approx $850.00 including shipping but I would have to sell the EL42 myself in that case. The dealer listed the LS-Z at $292 per.

kyfdx

I would ask the dealer, but I wouldn't bet on them being any cheaper.. I'd pay close attention for 99 miles, and see if I could live with the EL42s. If not, at least you know exactly what it will cost.

regards,
kyfdx

roro

Question: if you drive in Sequential SportShift mode all the time and then switch to Automatic mode can the transmission "learn" your habit and upshift at approx. the same RPM you were shifting at when driving in Seq mode?

I mean, if you're always shifting at ~3K RPM for each gear can the automatic transmission somehow learn that instead of shifting at lower RPMs?

While we're on the subject, the manual recommends to shift as follows:

1 -> 2 over 0 mph
2 -> 3 over 9 mph
3 -> 4 over 18 mph
4 -> 5 over 37 mph

For those of you who do use the Seq mode, do you guys actually follow this? At 40 mph, I'm usually still on 4th gear.

Anyway, I've had the TL for 3 weeks now and I've had no problems (no rattling, flatspotting, etc.)thus far. I'm still in the break-in period and TRYING real hard not to go beyond 60 mph but it's tough. Esp. when it feels like the car is 'telling' you to go faster. (It is soooo easy to get to 60 that by the time you realize you should check your speedometer to make sure you're not speeding in a 40 mph zone, it's already too late.)

Ro
Dallas, TX
04 TL - Silver with Black Interior

PS. Bluetooth works well with SonyEricsson T610 (T-Mobile)

kahunah

The instructions for shifting are for optimizing fuel economy only. Car "learns" in automatic mode only.

habitat1

I think there are as many opinions on this as there are manual transmission drivers out there - and I'm one.

I've had a 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed for 151k miles on the original clutch and, contrary to what the owner's manual might say and the MPG gurus would suggest, I rarely shift below 3,500-4,000 rpms for everyday driving. And I have averaged over those 151k miles approximately 24.1 mpg. At my 120k mile service a while back, the dealership did a compression test and found all cylinders within spitting distance of a brand new car.

My theory - right or wrong, but shared by at least one friend who is much more mechanically inclined than me (i.e. M.S. in ME & Materials Science from Duke) is that shifting gears too soon produces a lugging effect and more strain on the engine than shifting in the upper half of the rev band. In the old days, that could lead to carbon build up as too much fuel went unburned. Even with the newfangled engine management systems, I think dropping a car down to less than about 2,000-2,200 rpms after a shift seems to produce a bit of shudder if you then need to accelerate quickly.

In cars like the new TL where the horsepower is quite a bit higher than the torque and the red line is well above 6,000 rpms, I would not be shifting a 6-speed at anything less than about 4,000 rpm, unless I am really lollygagging. My S2000 is even worse, and I never run the engine below about 3,500 rpm even after a shift.

My other analogy is a human bicycle. While in theory you burn less energy putting the bike in a very high gear, unless you are at about 70+ rpms of the pedals, any attempt to accelerate quickly requires you to use much more muscle torque and is likely to pull a hamstring, especially if you are my age.

While even I don't advocate or recommend running an engine out to redline at every shift, I think shifting before you get much past 50% of redline has the potential to do more harm than good in the long run.