Do you know if the auto transmission "learns" your driving pattern once and locks it in or does it continuously adapt? The reason I ask is that during the break-in period I've been driving the car quite gently and consequently the car has been shifting what I would consider to be early. Now that I've passed the 1000 km mark I can start pushing a little more. Will the tranny continue to adapt and alter the shift points for me? Also, I've been moving the shifter into manual mode and downshifting manually into turns. Does this frustrate the "learning" process?
I've looked through the "Benefits" section of the acura.ca web page, which is where the most comprehensive description of the TLs technology is, and can't find any reference to this "learning" feature in the AT. Please let me know where you've found this information. I'd like to have a read up on it for myself. Thanks.
pmf13 -- Don't worry about the break-in period. The auto transmission continuously "learns" your driving pattern. There's no point in programming a computer to stop learning because in all likelihood, the car will change hands and it wouldn't do for a new driver to be stuck with the previous driver's programming. I have the 6-speed manual so it wasn't an issue for me but I did extend my break-in period to 1000 miles.
habitat1 -- You've absolutely right. Better to shift later than too soon - less strain on the engine. Acura's and Honda's are built for this. It's very rare that I shift below 3000 RPM.
I wish to replace the OEM speakers in my '04 TL. The stereo sounds good now. I can only imagine what it would sound like with aftermarket speakers. Crutchfield has yet to find out any information about the new TL, so they were no help. I know all the sizes but aren't sure what to use for replacements. Any help out there?
A few have also asked on these boards about upgrading the stereos. Nobody here seems to know how to do it without destroying the 5.1 balance the speakers have. I would love to increase the 8" sub to a 12 and get some more volume in the car. Let me know if you find out anything.
Am I the only one that sees the irony of having this built-into the car?
For a one-time hardware fee and one subscription fee, I could have it anywhere I want. Instead, I have to buy more hardware and pay two subscription fees (~$15-16/month) for the convenience of having steering wheel controls - that are mostly illogical for the XM application anyway - and no loose cables.
I'd think that XM would be willing to provide the same level/availability of service as that provided to those with the portable units, or consider licensing the service for a reduced fee, say $2 compared to another $7.
I'll vote with my wallet. Just curious if anyone else noticed this?
Yeah, I guess I don't understand since speakers are the weak point in any factory system. I think it would be pretty amazing to listen to with aftermarket speakers, yet I'm not willing to try different speakers without some professional help or someone who has the experience of speakers that worked in their car.
A dealer here told me first to check the ohms on the OEM's to see if they are compatible with aftermarket speakers. I haven't taken the old speakers out yet. Every car I replaced speakers in always sounded much better even with the stock head unit.
My TL originally came with summer tires, so I put on dedicated performance winter tires. The car performed beautifully in all weather conditions, including heavy snow. No need to spend extra thousands on AWD.
The TL already weighs in at 3,450+ lbs which is pretty heavy in my book. I would not want AWD unless they beefed up the engine - torque in particular - to go along with the AWD, which would likely add another 250 +/- lbs. The Audi quatros (A4 & A6) are pretty sluggish and still aren't going to perform like an SUV in heavy snow.
I've pretty much decided on getting the TL. Will be deciding between a Red/Ebony w/ HPT available at the dealer now, Anthracite/Ebony w/o HPT available in late April (on order), or Anthracite/Ebony w/ HPT in mid May (to be ordered). Comments or suggestions??
I have Anthracite/Ebony and it looks absolutely stunning. I get comments all the time. I think it looks a lot better then the red TL and also easier to take care of. It's not too light and not too dark so it hides dirt really well.
The Anth./Ebony combo looks real good. My friend has the same package with aluminum trim on the interior, very sharp! So what exactly is included in the HPT package? My friend has 18's and the Brembo package which IMO is like riding on rubber bands and he knows tire life will be an issue. I understand that the red is kinda hard to get from my local dealer.
The HPT option includes only summer tires-Bridgestone Potenza RE030's instead of the horrible Turanza EL42's. Well worth the extra $200. New, both tires cost about the same, which leads me to believe Acura must be getting a heck of a deal from Bridgestone on the rotten EL42's. Check out the reviews for the Turanza's at the Tire Rack site.
Thanks for the comments. I agree that the anthracite/ebony is a great looking combo. Now, do I wait for an HPT one (mid-May) or go with a non-HPT one in late April and replace the tires myself, once the originals wear out??
My local tire shop forewarned that the HPT Potenzas RE030 will provide a rougher ride and only last 20-25k miles, even with regular rotation (i.e. not much longer than the 17k miles I got out of the S02 Pole Position tires on my Honda S2000, which can't be rotated). They acknowledged that handling will be improved with the Potenzas relative to cornering, but indicated that highway road noise will be noticably higher. They also recommended that I also get a set of winter tires, unless I intend to "park" the TL the way I do the S2000 in the slightest of snows. That's not an option for my primary sedan.
Are other HPT package buyers out there planning on getting winter tires / wheels?
I have the '04 Silver/Ebony 6-Speed TL with Brembos and HP summer tires. Got the car in November, so I put Dunlop Winter Sport M2s on for the snow season (awesome tires). The Potenza RE030 summer tires aren't bad but not great (much better than the EL42s, for sure). When they wear out (and it won't take long) I'll probably replace them with Falken Azenis ST-115s or Potenza RE750s, unless something better comes out by then.
As for the wheels, when I bought the car I negotiated the option to buy a second set of OEM rims at dealer cost, plus 5%. I'll be getting them, and putting the RE030s back on, in a couple of weeks.
Personally, I think the camel interior is very appealing. In the anthracite or blue exterior. Red is a nice color too but the particular shade is a little to old for me.
[problems] can't be too common for it to sell 7K+ unit in a month, unless many are fooled by its look.
The number of problems reported by consumers for a product has nothing to do with the actual number of units sold. n-o-t-h-i-n-g, zero! Nadda, Zilch, and so forthly well less than one....
On the other hand, having the TL pictured on the cover of CR in March....
So Acura may never have to fix anything then, now that CR has it on top? Don't you think if you were a potential TL buyer and you came here to see all these problems reported, you'd be concerned a bit (say more than Nadda..), despite what you read on CR?
In one of them, you imply that the rising number of units sold indicates that the problems reported here must not be significantly affecting demand - people keep buying the car despite them.
In the latest response, you're saying that the problems reported here should drive down the number of units sold unless everyone accepts CR as infallible truth.
I'm lost on what your position is. You have said that the problems reported do and do not affect demand. It can't be both.
All I am saying (and I could care less what CR says overall, I don't read it) is that currently demand is outstripping supply, and that demand is being created (through CR, MT, Forbes etc.) while production capacity is not being added. Furthermore, I'd hypothesize that 30-50% of the CR membership don't even have Internet access.
So, any one person that actually comes here and has their perception changed on the value of the TL based upon number of problems reported here is unlikely imho, and will be replaced by market demand creation activity. Furthermore, Acura has set the price of the car well below the demand curve as far as I can tell, and limited production (a classic Honda move) to create a flat supply curve.
Now, what I would expect to see is a modification to the navi and no-navi trims for 2005 so that the price point differential is greater. I think what is happening is that some of the Navi buyers are those that have decided to make the stretch rather than purchase the no-navi vehicle. In other words, Navi is consuming demand for the no-navi. Or, I could see Acura eliminate the no-navi model altogether.
I haven't researched in the TL tire size, but if you are getting winter tires, I would suggest looking at Goodyear.
I have an '03 325i with the sport package. I put on Goodyear Eagle Ultra-Grip GW-3 for the winter. In my size, 225/45-17, they were the only V-rated, non-run-flat tire available. All of the other winter tires were H-rated or lower. More importantly, the performance was unreal. Cornering on snow and ice was better than any 4-wheel-drive I've ever had, and traction was also much better than front-wheel-drive with all-seasons.
If you want to check them out, go to Goodyear's website, as Tirerack doesn't carry them. Even my local Goodyear store didn't have them, but my independent tire dealer got them from the local distributor.
I'm not a big fan of Goodyear, generally, and this is the first set I've had since some original equipment tires in '77, but I would recommend these unconditionally.
Not sure why you got lost. The logic is very simple. If the problems reported here are very common, that most TL drivers got (you don't have to be here reading the problems to get it; if you have it you have it), then sooner or later it will hurt the demand. It may take a while but it'd be more than nadda/zero... you referred to. My point was that perhaps the reported problems here are not felt by most of TL owners, judging by the posted sales #.
Using that same logic, BMW would have to give away X5's. I think they had 12 recalls in as many months on some units. And yet, they are everywhere - and people pay for them.
The 99 Odyssey had severe transmission problems, and yet for 3 years, you had to wait in line months to buy one.
In addition, the initial problems reported by owners are not in aggregate, as far as I can tell, severe. Rattles, rust, paint chips, even the tire problems...none of these issues keep the car from completing its mission on a daily basis of getting the driver from point A to point B and ultimately back to point A again.
Value is a very subjective calculation, and connecting it directly to total units sold is not logical.
Just bought a TL. Anthracite/ebony. want to wax it but have heard different info on how long I should wait before waxing a new car. anywhere from 2 weeks to a year. and everything in between. Does anyone know for a fact how long I have to wait? thought the paint/finish was already cured from the factory. Thanks
So what you are saying is that TL will sell just as well, with or without these problems reported. That having these non-severe defects is not a problem for sellling a tons. Well that can be true if some or all oif these are also true: 1. Most buyers don't know these problems until they buy it. 2. TL's merits otherwise shadow these reported 'minor' defects that despite knowing it buyers think TL's still a good buy. 3. Other cars are no better anyway. 4. These reported problems are not common (my original point).
For me though, if I test drive a TL and find all these problems reported on it, I'd not buy it for sure, despite many other good stuff on it. Personally I'd not buy any new car that's rattles. It's just not a good reflection of sound build quality.
hoya / igiban: What are all the "reported problems" that supposedly affest the TL? I haven't been following this forum until relatively recently and haven't heard of any significant issues with the 2004 redesign. I know about the previous TL's auto transmission problems, but the 2004 redesign should have taken care of that - especially for me, since I'm going with the 6-speed. Please enlighten me of any other issues.
ghost,
I was told I could wax my Honda S2000 immediately by the factory representative. He drives a NSX, so I tend to trust him. He also confirmed that Maguires Professional #26 was one of the best waxes he would recommend for clear coat finishes. There are some more exotic multi-step waxes, but Maguires is my choice for quality and ease of use.
B-stone Turanza EL42 tires on the 5AT before March 04 tend to flat spot (cause vibration at 50mph) in colder weather. (Acura is replacing tires for claimants.)
Lost driver memory settings (memory unit replacements have begun for affected vehicles)
Paint flaws
HFL... needs an upgrade - Phone sometimes does not sync up properly
Interior rattles, squeaks, and falling headliners
Rust on front fenders below headlights and on chrome exhaust tips
On the HFL, does it matter if it's the car or the phone? I don't think it does. The car is the one that tells me that the selection I'm listening to is "Phone" and to fix that I need to activate the HFL and then hang up.
I waxed the car last week and had paint chip (1/8 inch diameter) on the driver's door while applying the wax (without pressure).
I have 1600 miles and despite the below freezing temps last night and not driving the car over the weekend, I really did not have any flatspot vibration today. I hate the tires, but they seem to be wearing in.
I went to my dealer to complain about the crappy tires, thinking that my tires were new since it has "tu2" and date code "1004" but the service manager tells me that the tires are not the reformulated ones and that they would have to order them after they test drive and determine that its infact the tires(hmmmm i wonder what else could it be) Has anyone experienced this? I thought the new tires were already on? what am i missing?(other than a brain maybe )
I just put a deposit down on a 2004 Acura TL that has a build date of April 8 any ideas on when it should arrive? Dealer says anywhere between a week to three weeks.
A very sharp color combo - just like the one Consume Reports purchased. I do wish the Artic Blue Pearl from the tsx was available as well. Lighter blues can be easier to keep clean.
Comments
I've looked through the "Benefits" section of the acura.ca web page, which is where the most comprehensive description of the TLs technology is, and can't find any reference to this "learning" feature in the AT. Please let me know where you've found this information. I'd like to have a read up on it for myself. Thanks.
habitat1 -- You've absolutely right. Better to shift later than too soon - less strain on the engine. Acura's and Honda's are built for this. It's very rare that I shift below 3000 RPM.
Thanks
For a one-time hardware fee and one subscription fee, I could have it anywhere I want. Instead, I have to buy more hardware and pay two subscription fees (~$15-16/month) for the convenience of having steering wheel controls - that are mostly illogical for the XM application anyway - and no loose cables.
I'd think that XM would be willing to provide the same level/availability of service as that provided to those with the portable units, or consider licensing the service for a reduced fee, say $2 compared to another $7.
I'll vote with my wallet. Just curious if anyone else noticed this?
A dealer here told me first to check the ohms on the OEM's to see if they are compatible with aftermarket speakers. I haven't taken the old speakers out yet. Every car I replaced speakers in always sounded much better even with the stock head unit.
I've pretty much decided on getting the TL. Will be deciding between a Red/Ebony w/ HPT available at the dealer now, Anthracite/Ebony w/o HPT available in late April (on order), or Anthracite/Ebony w/ HPT in mid May (to be ordered). Comments or suggestions??
My local tire shop forewarned that the HPT Potenzas RE030 will provide a rougher ride and only last 20-25k miles, even with regular rotation (i.e. not much longer than the 17k miles I got out of the S02 Pole Position tires on my Honda S2000, which can't be rotated). They acknowledged that handling will be improved with the Potenzas relative to cornering, but indicated that highway road noise will be noticably higher. They also recommended that I also get a set of winter tires, unless I intend to "park" the TL the way I do the S2000 in the slightest of snows. That's not an option for my primary sedan.
Are other HPT package buyers out there planning on getting winter tires / wheels?
As for the wheels, when I bought the car I negotiated the option to buy a second set of OEM rims at dealer cost, plus 5%. I'll be getting them, and putting the RE030s back on, in a couple of weeks.
The number of problems reported by consumers for a product has nothing to do with the actual number of units sold. n-o-t-h-i-n-g, zero! Nadda, Zilch, and so forthly well less than one....
On the other hand, having the TL pictured on the cover of CR in March....
See also, supply and demand curves.
In one of them, you imply that the rising number of units sold indicates that the problems reported here must not be significantly affecting demand - people keep buying the car despite them.
In the latest response, you're saying that the problems reported here should drive down the number of units sold unless everyone accepts CR as infallible truth.
I'm lost on what your position is. You have said that the problems reported do and do not affect demand. It can't be both.
All I am saying (and I could care less what CR says overall, I don't read it) is that currently demand is outstripping supply, and that demand is being created (through CR, MT, Forbes etc.) while production capacity is not being added. Furthermore, I'd hypothesize that 30-50% of the CR membership don't even have Internet access.
So, any one person that actually comes here and has their perception changed on the value of the TL based upon number of problems reported here is unlikely imho, and will be replaced by market demand creation activity. Furthermore, Acura has set the price of the car well below the demand curve as far as I can tell, and limited production (a classic Honda move) to create a flat supply curve.
Now, what I would expect to see is a modification to the navi and no-navi trims for 2005 so that the price point differential is greater. I think what is happening is that some of the Navi buyers are those that have decided to make the stretch rather than purchase the no-navi vehicle. In other words, Navi is consuming demand for the no-navi. Or, I could see Acura eliminate the no-navi model altogether.
I have an '03 325i with the sport package. I put on Goodyear Eagle Ultra-Grip GW-3 for the winter. In my size, 225/45-17, they were the only V-rated, non-run-flat tire available. All of the other winter tires were H-rated or lower. More importantly, the performance was unreal. Cornering on snow and ice was better than any 4-wheel-drive I've ever had, and traction was also much better than front-wheel-drive with all-seasons.
If you want to check them out, go to Goodyear's website, as Tirerack doesn't carry them. Even my local Goodyear store didn't have them, but my independent tire dealer got them from the local distributor.
I'm not a big fan of Goodyear, generally, and this is the first set I've had since some original equipment tires in '77, but I would recommend these unconditionally.
regards,
kyfdx
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The 99 Odyssey had severe transmission problems, and yet for 3 years, you had to wait in line months to buy one.
In addition, the initial problems reported by owners are not in aggregate, as far as I can tell, severe. Rattles, rust, paint chips, even the tire problems...none of these issues keep the car from completing its mission on a daily basis of getting the driver from point A to point B and ultimately back to point A again.
Value is a very subjective calculation, and connecting it directly to total units sold is not logical.
want to wax it but have heard different info on how long I should wait before waxing a new car. anywhere from 2 weeks to a year. and everything in between. Does anyone know for a fact how long I have to wait? thought the paint/finish was already cured from the factory. Thanks
1. Most buyers don't know these problems until they buy it.
2. TL's merits otherwise shadow these reported 'minor' defects that despite knowing it buyers think TL's still a good buy.
3. Other cars are no better anyway.
4. These reported problems are not common (my original point).
For me though, if I test drive a TL and find all these problems reported on it, I'd not buy it for sure, despite many other good stuff on it. Personally I'd not buy any new car that's rattles. It's just not a good reflection of sound build quality.
ghost,
I was told I could wax my Honda S2000 immediately by the factory representative. He drives a NSX, so I tend to trust him. He also confirmed that Maguires Professional #26 was one of the best waxes he would recommend for clear coat finishes. There are some more exotic multi-step waxes, but Maguires is my choice for quality and ease of use.
B-stone Turanza EL42 tires on the 5AT before March 04 tend to flat spot (cause vibration at 50mph) in colder weather. (Acura is replacing tires for claimants.)
Lost driver memory settings (memory unit replacements have begun for affected vehicles)
Paint flaws
HFL... needs an upgrade - Phone sometimes does not sync up properly
Interior rattles, squeaks, and falling headliners
Rust on front fenders below headlights and on chrome exhaust tips
Aesthetics so far, except for the tires.
Boy, that's news to me. Glad I don't have any of these issues.
I waxed the car last week and had paint chip (1/8 inch diameter) on the driver's door while applying the wax (without pressure).
I have 1600 miles and despite the below freezing temps last night and not driving the car over the weekend, I really did not have any flatspot vibration today. I hate the tires, but they seem to be wearing in.
Love the camel leather. Enjoy a sharp car!