Older Acura TLs

jrct9454

The info on the 2001s comes from a friend who sells Acuras at the local dealer. Besides which, the new equipment makes sense...why charge more for the TL than a CL, for less equipment? Let's put it this way...I believe the small equipment changes I mentioned are 99.9% sure; as I said, the S-Type will eventually happen, but I know of no credible source that believes it will be this calendar year.

Many dealer personnel are notoriously clueless - and it isn't confined to Acura, by any means. BMW and Mercedes buyers are extremely frustrated by the tight-lipped attitude of many dealer people in the face of questions about the 2001 changes to the 3-series, and the new C-Class cars [ which are due at the dealers in less than 3 weeks]. So many of the people who sell the cars are simply not "enthusiasts" the way we define the term - they get paid to move the metal, and that's what they do, and it could just as well be refrigerators or televisions.

kkuet

I am also 99% sure that the 2001 TL will have memory seats and six disc changer. Either the salesman are indeed clueless or they are not saying anything so they can get rid of the 2000 models.

At the Troy, Michigan dealer today, they were discounting $700 right off the bat. With negotiations, I would guess that you could get one for 1000-1200 off MSRP right now.

Has anyone had to get an allignment on their TL's yet. I have a 99 with 21000, and it feels like it could be time.

dougsilver

One of my cruel truths of life is that it is NEVER the right time to buy a car. At best, you will be happy for maybe 6 to 9 months after buying the car. If you buy too early in the model year, you probably paid top $ and will soon be unhappy as others pay less for the same car. If you buy later in the year, you may save some $ but will be increasingly disappointed as you start to hear how much better and improved the upcoming model will be. So, just get what you want and resign yourself to being unhappy soon.

kkuet

i have a 99 TL. has anyone noticed on theirs that the speedometer reading seems to be a bit slow. for example, the speedometer reads 85 mph when i'm really only going about 78-80. i had it checked out and they said a 10% discrepency is normal. tell that to the cops when they clock me 7-8 mph over on the freeway.

pat455

dougsilver - very similar to buying a new computer, eh?

kkuet - there has been a consensus earlier in this topic (or one of its predecessors) that the TL speedometer does read a little higher than your actual speed. I've never had mine checked (also a '99) but it feels that way to me too.

However, if the speedo reads higher than your actual speed (85 when you are going 80), it seems to me that is sort of a protection against getting a ticket rather than the other way around. (Or the ticket would be for a fewer number of miles over the limit than you thought you were going!)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference.

boomoo

Hello everyone. I'm looking for a new car. By going through all the post under this topic, now TL looks like to be a choice.

WHEN TO BUY
IMO, Nov and Dec look great: 2001 TL would be introduced in Oct, people relying on bonus for a new car is waiting in the line till Jan or Feb makes it a traditional slow season. Hopefully dealers would be a little bit easier to negotiate.

WHICH MODEL
Definitely 2001 TL. On one side, I'm not a fan for racing. S model is not my taste. On the other side, I feel more confident for 2001 TL than 2000 TL. 'Cause all the found problems on 2000 TL should be fixed already(hopefully no new problems are introduced).

WITH OR WITHOUT NAV
NO. The benefit/price ratio is not as smart as the car itself. I work on computer every day. Before I go anywhere I'm not familiar with, I would do a research on internet. Routine, restaurant, atm, cinema, bank, shopping center, scenery sites... I see no reason for relying on an NAV, unless to impress my girl friend.

Sorry for a little bit wordy. I will update my auto hunting. Any comment?

dougsilver

Actually, computer envy seems less than new car envy. I have just begrudgingly had to upgrade the computer I was using at my desk at work--it was an oldie but goodie--486 with 2 ESDI hard drives running WFW 3.11. My philosophy when it comes to computers is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Cars are another thing. You could be ecstatically happy after just buying your new "dream car" and, a few months later when the new models start arriving, you are made to feel like s**t. But I digress.

esquire4

I've seen a few posts here + there about recall items on the 2000 TL. I've had my car into the dealer for all routine svc + oil changes but they never said anything about recall items. What should I ask them to check/replace?

As far as the sprotshift transmission is concerned, I've grown very bored with it. I HATE that the computer automatically shifts from 1st to 2nd. Furthermore, there seems to be almost a one-second delay from the time I toggle the shift until the car reacts. My Audi w/ tiptronic shifts almost instantly. Can the computer be reprogrammed here?

abhidharma

Esquire4 -- I don't think the tranny computer can be reprogrammed. You're right, the 1-2 shift sucks. Recalls? The micro-processing thingy in the seat-belt buckle (the light on the dash will intermittently stay on even when your seat belt is fastened). We've been waiting a month for the new part.

Randy

cyrulnik

I also hate the fact that the sportshift automatically shifts from first to second, and especially that it will not allow downshifting into first at all.

Is there any downside to moving the shift lever manually through the gears rather than using the sportshift? Can this do any damage to the transmission?

Owen

tgavery

A 10% variance on a speedometer is not normal -- but unfortunately, it is within federal guidelines, and therefore not covered under warranty.

I don't believe there is too much difference between using the sportshift and moving the shift lever through the gear positions. The biggest one that I can think of: the sportshift will never downshift unexpectedly when you floor the accelerator. This is something that the automatic transmission is liable to do in any gear setting. Plus, I think a simple tap on the sportshift is easier than manual shifting.

The shift-delay bugs the snot out of me! If anyone ever figures out a way to fix it, I would pay good money for the secret.

(Has anyone noticed the Edmund's spellchecker is pretty prude? I don't think it knows a single swear word. Apparently even "snot" is to risque. Gee, sorry, you bastards!)

dougsilver

I recall participating in a debate many moons ago about manually shifting the automatic via moving the lever into the detents versus sportshifting. As I previously posted I have always "manually" shifted my automatics this way (of course not all of the time) and have never done any damage. It is my opinion that getting back the "kickdown" is a plus versus no kickdown with the so-called sport-shift.

rufus9

Recently purchased a new TL 2000. Dealer said the 2001 would have memory seats and 6 disc changer.
Now my story. After about 300 miles on my new TL I noticed oil leaks on the garage floor. Took it to the dealer who discover major engine leak. Gave me a loaner to drive. What a piece of S..t! By a new Acura which we are all lead to believe to be good stuff and then have engine work because some worker on the line screwed up. Will see how they fix it but after reading about you alls problems I am scared. None of my Hondas ever had any problems in 15 year. And I owned 3. Any answers?

jrct9454

The answer is that no mass-produced product is going to be perfect, and you are the unfortunate statistical victim of the exception that proves the rule. Oil leaks are most certainly extremely unusual with any Honda - they'll fix it and that should be the end of it. Try not to let it ruin your long-term enjoyment of the car.

dave158

Well, I just took my TL for its first out-of-town roadtrip and have come back much encouraged about its MPG. Cruising between 70-80 most of the time (I love how relaxed the car is at that speed), MPG was consistently around 30. Not as good as some of you have gotten, but then my TL is still a baby -- less than 3000 miles. And what a pleasure to drive!

So far I haven't encountered any of the problems others on this list have. It seems flawless.

esquire5

The 1st Honda I purchased was a '98 Accord EXL. After 43,000 miles in 2 yrs, the transmission went. I used every explacative to describe the car. But 1 lemon does not make a bad car - 1 union worker is all it takes to do that. I love my '00 TL w/ nav...

marsha7

I agree with your "one union worker" comment, as I have my opinions about the quality of union work, but, as a point of reference, Honda is not unionized, even tho they are built in Ohio. UAW cancelled at least 3 votes in the last decade, as they were about to lose their a**

jrct9454

...that all of the transmissions are sourced in Japan.

Look, no car maker is perfect - but if you are looking for the best chance to own a car for 100k miles and not spend serious money on repairs, AND not be driven nuts by a dozen little things going wrong, Honda and Toyota give you the best odds. But neither of them now, in the past, or in the future, are going to send every car on to the transporter defect-free...at least not in our lifetimes.

Reliability as practiced by these two has nothing to do with the nationality or union status of the workers - it is thorough engineering, AND thoughtful attention to detail, AND staying on top of their suppliers, AND real focus on the production process [of which the workers are only a part]...AND there will still be mistakes. Just fewer of them than anyone else...

marsha7

I guess that's good enough for now.

bigpoppadon

I am curious to know if you people all bought your TLs or if some of you leased them and are referring to your capitalized cost when you quote prices? Just wondering how the TL leases out verses its competition if anyone is interested in posting that info would be greatly appreciative. This is my first post on this site and I really enjoy the comments. You people are very passionate about this vehicle. Looking to lease one in the next couple of weeks. Dealers in this area (Cincinnati) are in good supply (though most are non-navi). Wish me luck!!

tgavery

is that it isn't worth the hassle. I leased my last vehicle, because I got suckered into believing them when they said, "When the lease ends, you just bring the car in and walk away from it."

What they don't tell you is that you'll spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about dumb little things you shouldn't even have to think about. Like, are all these little trips around town going to put me over my mileage limit? How much are they going to charge me for that chip in the windshield or that door ding?

And I don't believe leasing is cheaper. It looks cheaper because you have less money down, and lower monthly payments. But if you do the math and figure out how much it would cost you to buy the car and sell it after three years, you'll probably found out that buying costs about the same or less. And this is even more true for longer leases.

ruski

but with a lease you don't have to worry about spending time and effort to sell the car. Just return it and get a new one. But you are correct about worrying about little chips, dents, and scratches. I returned my 96 Buick Riviera with some dents and scratches, but I was way under in miles, so they were happy to take it back.

Another nice thing about leasing is that you are usually covered by the warranty - lease terms tend to coinside with the length of the warranty.

tgavery

See, like you, I believed it when they said, "Just return it and get a new one."

But first you had to schedule an appointment to have the car inspected. Then you go to that appointment (or if you're lucky, they come to you). If the inspector finds any problems, you either have to get them fixed yourself, or be willing to pay the penalty. If you get them fixed yourself, then you have to schedule and attend another inspection. Then when you're finally ready to turn it in, you have to schedule an appointment for that, and go in to the dealer to fill out a bunch of paperwork. And the final insult: you have to pay them to take the car back from you! (I think they had some sort of euphemism for it... "disposition fee" perhaps?)

I figure that between the time I spent scheduling all these appointments on the phone (mostly on hold), and attending them, it was almost as much effort as I would have spent selling a car myself. And if I was going to simply trade-in at the time I purchased my new car, that would have been even easier (though of course you pay a penalty for trading in).

Next problem: you have to make sure you get your new car before your lease is up so that you don't leave yourself with no transportation. But you don't want to do it too early because you may end up with two car payments. And you're also limited in that you can't wait for the next sale or rebate offer. When your lease is up, you need to get your next car NOW, like it or not.

Yes, having the warranty cover the car for the full time you own it is nice. But I'm suggesting that one could buy a car, then sell it at the end of the warranty period, and still come out ahead financially, and with fewer hassles than leasing.

[The warranty on my TL will be up in roughly 45 months or 47000 miles. Check back with me then to see if this theory holds up. ]

joelhe

Anyone hear anything about the supposedly upcoming update of the Acura NAV DVD? Last I heard from Acura's customer service, it would be out sometime in the Fall, come directly from Alpine, not Acura and cost $152 plus S&H. Hopefully it will have detailed coverage for more than the current 100+ cities.

ruski

valid points. I am returning my Grand Prix GTP in December, and I will need a new car THEN. But there are a lot of good deals on 2000 models NOW. I don't know if I will see any good deals on the cars that I like THEN. And I am not sure how smoothly the lease return will go. But when I returned my Riviera, I just drove it to the dealer, asked for someone who does leases, they looked it over, and that was it, no preliminary appointments.

Lease payments tend to be lower. In the long run one will spend about the same amount of cash either leasing or financing. Currently I cannot cough up enough money to cover monthly financing payments (I have two cars), so leasing is more appropriate for me.

Another good reason to lease is if one has a business - the lease payments can be written off the income tax (claim that the vehicle is for business use)

tinyguy

It does cost a little more to lease, but that all depends on what you do with the amount that would have gone into finance payment. If you invest, you can come out ahead of the game, but if that's not your game, usually, financing comes out ahead, at least financially.

I personally like long-term lease, since that way, I own the vehicle long enough not to get hit too hard with initial depreciation cost, and not having to deal with headaches repairing older out-of-warranty models.

Worst thing to do, is to lease, and spend the changes buying new (say) furnitures... You are spending money that you shouldn't be able to afford...

When I get TL, I'll go for 4 years lease...
(And invest the rest...)

tinyguy

It seems to help if I arrive to the dealer, prepaired to buy back the vehicle, if the dealer becomes too fussy. Of course, this doesn't work very well on vehicles that have artificially high residual values, subsidised by manufacturer, but for vehicles like TL, it should be ok.

dougsilver

Every time I buy a car I usually go through this little exercise and have always ended up buying. The one time I was almost convinced that I should lease an auto broker said that, for me, leasing was not the way to go. Basically, I do not change cars every year or so. I keep cars at least 5 years and frequently longer. Of course I tend to baby the cars so they look and run like new when it comes to sell them--hence able to get a decent price when selling. Advice I have gotten in the past from friends/acquaintances in the auto biz was if you want to always have a "new" car, then lease but if you tend to keep a car more than 3 years, then buy.

As an aside, an economics professor I once had said studies showed that when it comes to cars, the most cost-effective economic policy is to buy a car that is 1 year old and sell the car when it is about 4 years old.

Class dismissed.

dougsilver

By that I mean that these days are different from several years ago in that nice cars today cost as much as homes used to cost then. Also, the new breed of young middle class professionals are sometimes "poor" in terms of savings but rich in terms of monthly cash flow. I suppose that is why leasing has gotten more attractive recently. Not in terms of economic sense but in terms of satisfying the needs of folks that must have the primo car but don't have the wad to put down.

ruski

plus there are such things as subvented or subsidised leases, offered nationwide and almost all dealers honor them. This happens when a manufacturer wants to move cars that aren't selling well (could be still fine cars though). They artificially assume a higher residual value, decreasing the difference between the initial price and residual, hence lower monthly payments. I was able to lease my Buick Riviera for $399 per month with $1,800 down. The sale price of the car was $31,000. I could have never gotten such a good deal if I tried to negotiate the lease on my own.

bigpoppadon

responses. I am very familiar with leases already as I have leased my last three cars and currently lease two vehicles. I was more curious if the lease customers for the TL got decent deals. I like leasing because it allows me to drive a car I would not normally be able to afford. I usually lease my cars with fees down only. $30k plus cars would cost $650 or more per month. Too much to pay for a car I know I'll grow tired of, especially before the 5 to 6 years of payments are up. Cars are too disposable for me. Even the beloved TL will eventually leave my garage if I ever get one. Interesting assessment Dougsilver as I fit your described profile perfectly: poor in savings/rich in monthly cash flow.

ruski

even if the monthly cash flow is rich, saving up to buy a car would mean sitting without a car for a while. Leasing on the other hand does not allow to save. Catch 22.

tgavery

Apparently there are quite a few TL owners experiencing a similar problem: it is nearly impossible to keep the windshield clean. Trying to clean it leaves ugly streaks and filmy deposits. The wipers either don't help or make it worse, and they leave big streaks on the windows themselves.

We're told that Acura is "aware of the problem," but we don't have any idea when they might actually do something about the problem. So we're going to organize a little grass roots campaign, on the theory that one individual may not get much attention, but a group of us might.

If anyone is experiencing this or a similar problem, please e-mail me directly (click on my username to view my profile). For now, I just need your real name and your e-mail address, and it would help to know the month and year you bought your TL. (I have a suspicion that the people experiencing this problem all bought their vehicles right around the same time.) Also include a brief description in your own words of the problem you are having and how it affects you.

Once all of the information has been gathered, I will submit a written letter to Acura requesting that they address our concerns. Before I send the letter, I will first e-mail it to everyone whose name is included so that you will have a chance to review its contents, and so that you can choose to remove your name if you for some reason change your mind.

All those involved will be kept apprised of the progress via e-mail. I will also post brief updates back to this Edmund's Topic (Acura 3.2TL - Five) for any who aren't directly involved but are curious about the outcome.

If anyone has any other questions or comments regarding this, please either e-mail me for a private response, or post it here.

Thanks,

Tim

tgavery

The following topic was recently added in the Maintenance and Repair conference just for this purpose. All further updates will appear there, not here.

2000 Acura TL Windshield Problem (Topic #1646)

jkdbomb

go to acura.com

no changes...other than the fact floor mat is now standard.....kind of disappointing

ruski

where is the more powerful engine that some have been hoping for? Why does CL deserve to have it and TL does not?

newcar74

that's the reason they don't give 260 on TL.
Now 2001 Accords(all EX) have 6in-dash -CD changer, that makes it very obvious choice on the TL. If it doesn't have it, it's surprising.

260hp TL may appear if redesigned ES300 gets much better than what it is now !!

6-Disc In dash changer...has to be on TL....

tinyguy

I really wanted the memory seats and in-dash CD... The choice is becomming more difficult again...

jkdbomb

"Acura/Bose?Music System with five speakers, AM/FM stereo/cassette, in-dash CD player, Dolby?Noise Reduction?(DNR) and anti-theft feature"

hey guys...i just pasted this straight out of the acura.com web-site.....2001 TL does NOT have the 6 disc in dash changer......this is kind of messed up, cuz like newcar said...even the fr**king honda accord have those 6 discs...

i think 2002 will be a pretty big year for TL's.
at that point, they will probably offer TL-S
and 6disc and memeory seats..

frustrating....i know...i have to get a car within the next couple of months....
however, even after this disappointing news, i think it still comes down to I30t or 3.2TL...

tough choice

jrct9454

I for one do not believe the web site has been completely updated. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the sound system upgrade [in-dash 6 CD] will be on the 2001s. I also strongly believe the memory seats will be there, too.

A wager: when you go to a dealer and actually see a real car in the real metal, it will have these features. If I'm wrong, everyone can come back and kick virtual sand in my face.

As for the TL-S, or whatever it will be called, I've said all along I believe this change in coming in the next twelve months, but not as part of the intitial 2001 TL rollout. I stand by that assertion, as well...look for it next summer...

Incidentally, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new wheel design for the TL, as well...another reason I am skeptical that the web site has been really updated for the 2001 intro.

newcar74

As 2001 Accord EX have 6-CD....TL has to have it.
Personal Opinion: Why door handles on accords are body-colored & NOT on TL ?? Id there anything I don't know anout it..??

All asiede 3.2TL is THE best Car at 30K +- 2K range...
Poeple who talk about RWD etc should test drive TL
They will surprise to see such a competent handling. They have really scored home run with the Chassis.

ruski

but forgot to put wider tires on that home run chassis.

tinyguy

I really hope the site is wrong, since I just about made my mind up about getting TL over I30L after knowning that those two options are going to be offered on 2001s (even if it's at higher overall cost).

Does anyone know which car is the cheapest, that offers Nav? (I believe it's TL, other than Honda Odyssey).

newcar74

is it so simple..?? They are an engg company.
So they 'forgot'to put wider tyres is a gross over-statement....They have better engineers than us...!!
Thanks

hunter001

Do you think wider tires help in improving the chassis or does it "cover up" the inadequacies of a "not so well tuned" chassis ? The Acura TL needs grippier tires but not wider ones....The present tires in the TL are oriented towards a softer ride than good handling even though the car has superb chassis dynamics...replace the OEM Michelin tires with better grippier tires and it should improve the handling and braking performance of the TL by leagues...the tires let down an otherwise superbly tuned chassis...

Wider tires enhance the "looks" as a lot of people mistakenly believe that wider tires means better handling - but IMHO, only enhances the handling in an "inferior" chassis...a well tuned chassis does not need "crutches" like "super-wide tires" for good performance in the curves....

Later...AH

ruski

what's the point of busting your butt to design a great chassis only to put not so grippy (or wide) tires on it?

ruski

I don't want to see TL with super-wide tires, but something that I have on my Grand Prix GTP would be welcome.

boomoo

All the honored owners of 2000 TL 3.2, you are now experienced with this wonderful car for about a year. What do you say about it? Still exciting every time you see it? Or calm down to everyday's hello?
I'm looking forward to buy a 2001 TL or I30 in Nov/Dec. Your feedback would be appreciated.
One question to you: how do your comment the SportShift? How does it contribute to the drive? It improve handling, or performance, or mileage, or just make you feel better? I went through several posts on this forum in past monthes, still not so sure about the difference among SS and automatic transmition, or a manual one.

bigpoppadon

I went to the largest Acura dealer in this region yesterday and they have several 2001TLs on the lot. There is no in-dash cd changer and no memory seats. There are minor interior improvements, to small to even mention and cost is about $145 higher on MSRP. They said they were rather shocked not to have additional equipment. Probably on 2002 when they introduce the Type-S TL.

jkdbomb

hey...bigpoppadon

what are the "minor" interior improvements??
can you explain that a little bit more??
floor mat is one of them....right??

so much for Acura not updating the website...

one more thing...if honda's getting a new accord in 2003.....is new TL commoing out 2003? or 2004?
(the current accord came out in 1998, and current TL came out in 1999...)