I spent a lovely 2 1/2 hours at a local Acura dealer this week. All ready to buy a 2001 TL (until I was informed that they were going to make the generous offer of $7,500 below wholesale on my trade-in!), but that is not the topic...
During the time I had while waiting for the various "managers" to discuss my offer, I had a pleasant conversation with the saleswoman re: the MDX and the TL Type S. They anticipate the Type S will arrive between March and May. Approx. cost will be $2,500 over current TL MSRP (and they expect to get MSRP for the Type S).
Although I was ready to pull the trigger on a 2001 TL, after sitting in the CL Type S and admiring the interior appointments, the 6 disc in-dash cd, the memory seats, etc.... I plan to wait until I can sell my car in the spring (convertible) and buy a TL Type S! Can't hardly wait.
During my latest test drive (see above) I paid particular attention to headroom after reading the past several posts here. I am 6'2" and was quite comfortable in the TL. W/ the sunroof liner closed my hair brushed the roof at times, but it was not a bother. W/ the liner open, I had no problems.
I always set the driver's seat where I would like it and then try the back seat to see if it is comortable. Although I would prefer not to sit in it for long drives w/ the drivers seat in that position, it was not a bad fit. The Maxima seemed to have more room, but the only cars that I truly fit in the back behind a 6' plus driver are the truly luxury sedans (740iL, S80, etc.)
The headroom and backseat room of the TL is not a deterrent in my choice of $30,000 sport/luxury sedans.
Today my Acura TL 2000 was broken into by someone with the ability to over-ride the electronic key system. There was no sign of forced entry and it is not clear if they tried to start the car. Valuables were taken from the car. They relocked the car when they were done. Anyone ever hear of this before? The police say that this has been happening.
I just got my 2001 TL. I notice you can really hear the rain in this car. Also, there is a low frequency noise between 25 and 35 MPH. Sort of sounds like the rear axle that you would find in an old car. I suppose it could be the tires, but... Has anyone else hear a low rumble starting at 25 mph and lasting thru 35 mph?
To whoever may be concerned: While I got the delivery, the salesman said: if I could return the survey in blank, he would like to offer me two free oil-change. So far, five weeks past, I still didn't receive my survey, neither the assistant card. Yesterday, called the customer service of the manufacturer and found out surprisingly that my VIN# goes along with a similar name and a totally un-heared address. Checked with my credit union and the dealership, both had correct name and address in their computers. It looked like that the salesman played game too much.
To those who didn't receive the survey, stop complaining about the manufacturer. It may be the salesman's playing trick.
My Acura dealer tells me that regular gasoline rather than premium can be used in my 2000 TL if I am stuck somewhere where I can't get premium gasoline. If I understand correctly, knock sensors are supposed to sense the octane level of the gasoline and adjust the valve timing accordingly allowing regular gasoline to be used.
Just to see if there was any noticeable difference I put in three tank fulls of regular then one tank full of the "middle" octane gasoline and then back to premium. I noticed no difference but my dealer did mention that I should not use regular gasoline consistently because this can damage the engine over a long period of time.
My questions are, most importantly, what kind of damage might result if any, and also, what exactly does octane level relate to when gasoline is burned in the engine, how and why is valve timing adjusted accordingly, exactly what causes knocking and why are cars designed for premium gasoline?
higher octane gasoline is less likely to "self ignite" under high pressures (you compress something so much and at a certain point it ignites). due to the compression ratio of the engine (higher = usually more efficient and more power), using regular gas without adjusting the ignition timing will cause the gas to self ignite before the spark plug ignites it, roughly put..."messes up stuff bad" = ping/knock. with the knock sensors (they don't sense octane level), they detect the onset of knocking and "retard" the spark to prevent full blown self-ignition.
the damage they are talking about is heat damage. did you ever see a car with the timing off? the exhaust manifold gets way way red hot. when you use regular gas normally, the engine is running unusually hot all the time which obviously is not good. but once in a while when you're stuck without premium, it's ok. but unless you're really pushing it or going up a lot of steep hills, you won't notice a difference in performance...but it is still having an effect on the engine.
my suggestion is, you bought a pretty expensive car, premium isn't that much more expensive, just go for the premium.
something to thik about...i heard that some people got worse mileage with regular gas on cars that required premium, so it evens out using premium in those cars...i dont' know if the tl is one of them. i have a cl-s, but the compression ratio is even higher than the tl, so i'm not gonna risk regular gas....i did try cheap (redners brand) premium one time and DID notice a BIG difference if that's worth anything.
it won't void the warranty (how are they gonna prove that you use usually use regular? if you have regular in the tank at the time, just tell them that you couldn't find a station with prem. the last fillup).
but the damage caused probably won't show itself until after the warranty is gone...ie it's a long term issue.
After reading dean078's response I wish I had limited my experiment to one tank of regular or not doing it at all. I don't think I did any damage (I hope not) but I will keep premium in the tank from now on and try to make sure I have a full tank when going into a remote area.
Dean078 mentioned that the damage would be heat damage. I assume this means the temperature gauge reading would be high at some times. I never noticed the temperature gauge reading high while using regular gas.
the temperature guage is not the temperature of the components that are affected (ie exhaust manifold which can get red hot when timing is way off), but oil temperature.
i doubt you did any significant or relevant damage at all, but as i mentioned before, it's a long term issue where you won't see any real damage unless you consistently use regular for a long long time (1+ year).
Has anyone heard any rumors about the color options (interior/exterior combo's) that will be available on the Type S? Besides the in-dash CD, memory seats and 260hp - any other info. about how this car will differ from regular TL?
that's all it is, rumors. until you read in a magazine or that acura announces that there will be a tl-s, it's all rumors...some people claim that their dealer "confirmed" that it's going to happen, but they also "confirm" that you can't get a better deal than theirs.
Post 297 in the "Honda Odyssey 2000 navigational system" topic refers to a JD Power and Associates report with customer survey results on navigation systems that is worth reading.
Acura's DVD system is rated the highest. The top 11 systems mentioned rated at least fairly decent. It is interesting to note that the RL ratest highest, TL a close third and Odyssey sixth even though they are almost identical. I am not sure why that would be. (I think the RL has more memory for saving locations than the TL and its screen is slightly wider.)
I would have liked to have seen a comparison of detailed street coverage between the systems since that has been a topic of discussion here recently with the recent DVD upgrade but that was not addressed in the report.
the rl navi screen is slightly bigger and the buttons are on the left of the screen. that's the only differences i know, so i'm still trying to figure out if that really makes that big of a difference in the ratings.
Lexus GS and Lexus LS use the same supplier but have significantly different ratings. Are they differently designed systems?
Jaguar-XK8 and Jaguar-S use different suppliers, also with significantly different ratings. Is this a typo or else why would they use two different suppliers?
i didn't think 1/2" in screen size or the fact the the buttons are on the right instead of left made that much of a difference, but obviously to them it does.
but besides screen size, the system itself is the same system.
Correct me of I'm wrong, but isn't the electronic lock on the ignition only, and not on the door as mentioned by thinkingtl?
At least that's how most kill switches work. I thought the electronic lock on the TL is just a chip in the key that prevents the ignition from turning over if the proper key with the matching chip in the key is not inserted.
I didn't think this was supposed to stop any normal key from opening the door.
abhidharma is a combination of two Sansrit words. So do you know Sanskrit ? I hope u know that this word has Indian(Asia) Origin as few others like: 'Guru', 'Mantra' etc....
No, I don't know Sanskrit, but I have studied and do appreciate Buddhism. So my name is a reflection of my appreciation and practice.
Regarding the TL -- we've now owned ours for one year. Mostly love it, but it has a few flaws.
On the maintenance side, we're still waiting for our new seatbelt sensors. The armrest rattles when it's fully extended. And that's it.
Very smooth and powerful, and good handling, but I still find the tranny to be a little jerky in 1 and 2. The car is quiet, except for a little tire slap.
Visibility is great, and the traction control and tires give good handling in winter. The passenger side windshield wiper is an annoyance when clearing ice.
The kids feel like royalty in the back seat--the windows go down all the way, air vents, and a large center arm rest make travelling a dream.
I am shopping for a new car. Glad to hear memory seats are coming. Do any owners out there drive your TL on rough/dirt roads? I have to drive in the country, and I am not happy hearing of rattles from the back. Does your TL shudder on rough roads? One web site says the car skips badly on uneven roads???
Does anyone have the dealer installed wind deflector? My wife wants one installed when she purchases her car in February. During a test drive I opened the roof and the car seemed fine without it. I'd hate to have something installed just to find out it makes the noise worse rather than better.
Also, how is the installation done? Do they drill into the roof or does it just snap in place?
Which website mentioned that the car skips badly on uneven roads ? Could you provide a link to it ? I ride pretty frequently over some sections of rough roads and the ride is very compliant...
Well, I just purchased a new ss non/nav last night. Everything went great. Paid $27,700 including burlwood knob and rear spoiler. What problems should I be looking for? What rattles what shakes? Anything recalled that maybe they didn't fix already? Thanks in advance.
While I'm looking for a deal, one of the dealers tells me: the deflector is nothing more than to make a different look (these words do come from the dealer). Therefore, I do not include it in my list any more. But neither do I test drive a car with wind deflector. Better to try both with and w/o to make a smart decision.
it does a little...you get a tad less wind noise and the one i had on my last car actually let me open the sunroof without getting the sun in my eyes certain times of the day.
i don't listen to dealers, my dealer told me "this car has exxon headlights." i'm like cool, not only do they make oil, they make headlights! (to screw with him).
he also told me the anti-sway bar (on my cl-s) was to keep the engine from getting pushed into the cabin during a crash...i guess if you don't know what it's for, that's what you would generalize.
I went to a credit union car sale in alexandria last month, and Radley Acura was selling TL's w/nav for $29,900. You may be able to negotiate lower. During that time www.greenlight.com listed TL's w/nav for 29,542, but they are now 31,000.
I live in the country and go 2 miles on dirt roads from the main road to my house. Yes the TL does shudder on these roads at about 45 mph but no more than the 1999 Explorer or 1992 Toyota Camry I used to have.
I am currently considering a TL and test-drove one last week. Dealer wanted 27,200, or about 1K over invoice (no Navigation package). Also, no delivery charge. Is this a good deal? Any comments will be appreciated.
Also, I am considering a Maxima GLE with almost every option available. The Maxima is 1.4K less. Any advice?
there are much better deals going around now a days on TL. That would make it no-brainer(TL over maxima)
Maxima has non-independent (rear-beam axle) rear suspension, onky car in this segment to have such a cost cutting. TL has double wishbone which is found on costlier models of Lexus/Benz (gs series)
Most of the guys found TL a better buy when it was going for MSRP.
Should you want objectivity, you may wish to also post your question on the Maxima page. They are both great cars. My wife opted for the Maxima GLE over the TL because she wanted a larger back seat and didn't want the hassle of changing the timing belt (chain on the Maxima). My mother opted for the TL because she liked the smaller size, the longer warranty and the slightly softed ride. Again, they are both great cars and you can't go wrong with either. BTW, in our area the Maximas are coming with $500 additional off, so the cost differential may be about $2K or so. I am getting a car in the Spring and both are on my list. The type S should add the 260hp engine, memory seats,and 6 disk in dash cd; but this is merely dealer speculation and not fact. Best wishes whatever you decide.
Two things: Sorry I missed seeing your post on the Max site previously and also should have changed the "d" to a "g" to properly identify you re post #352.
While at the Beach in Fort Lauderdale earlier this year, we encountered a lady who had a similar experience. While she locked her vehicle remotely, nearby thieves used a scanning device to 'steal' the code from her remote. Subsequently, entry to the vehicle was gained, valuables were stolen and the vehicle was relocked leaving the victim bewildered.
I recently purchased a 2001 3.2TL(6 weeks old) & am very happy with the car except for the nicks the seat belt buckle leaves in the door pillars behind the front seats when the belts are retracted. Dealer suggested I release belt slower. Has anyone else experienced this problem & any other suggested remedies. (car man thanks)
Your problem is interesting, because the four Hondas/Acuras I have owned all retracted slow as molasses, and I always had to watch the passengers exit and retract their belts so they wouldn't shut the door on the seatbelt and permanently imbed grease in the belt.
i think the reason for the nicks is that the thing retracs so slow!
when i release my seatbelt, i usually release it and pull it to the left quickly, on most cars this usually picks up any slack and prevents the thing from hitting anything...but on my cl-s, i keep on banging it on sometimes the window, which i guess is better than anywhere else 'cuz it wouldn't leave a nick on the window, just break it, but it hasn't broken yet (Thank God).
Just had some snow over here today, and I actually started to use the heater in the car. The heated seats are great for fall weather, just pop them on and you're warm (no need for heaters to be on). But now its very cold (12 degree wind chills, etc.), and everytime I go to engage my HVAC system on my TL/CLS (same climate control system on both), the compressor engages. I dont want the compressor to engage when using the heater since i dont need it! If I push the "AUTO" button, it engages automatically, even if I have the temperature set to 90 degrees or 60 degrees. I have to keep pushing the "A/C" button to disengage the compressor (unnecessary use of gas esp. when using heaters). I know its bad to turn it on, off, and then back on again shortly, and I want to just prevent it from engaging when I push the "AUTO" button to start the heater. Is there any way to do this, or does everyone just push "AUTO" and sit back and relax? I would hate to have the compressor running with the heater for no reason (unless i want to defog the glass, which by the way, does happen more than in my Infiniti for some reason?). Thanks...
Been driving a 2000 TL for about a year...great car! I'm considering winter tires as I plan to travel to Vermont from northern New Jersey a few times over the winter. The stock tires seemed to perform well last winter but there was little snow...any advice?
i dont' think there's a way to turn off the compressor w/o turning off the a/c.
but i wouldn't worry about gas mileage when heating...the compressor works harder to cool (take heat in cabin and "force" it to hotter ambient) than it is to use heat produced from the engine and put it in the cooler interior, as heat naturally flows to cooler ambient (it's NOT a heat pump, so it's NOT doing "reverse" cooling which takes a lot of energy too).
the only function of the compressor in this case is to remove moisture...in cooling mode, it's removing moisture and removing heat, and the removing heat part is the part that requires a lot of energy.
trust me, all things being equal (driving habits, etc.), you'll notice at most, $0.50 a fillup, if any at all.
(i'm a mechanical engineer and had 2 semesters of this thermodynamics crap...never thought this stuff would come in use though...funny.)
as for your defogging more often...it's 'cuz the cabin "seals" are better meaning less moisture escapes meaning you'll fog up more.
i think it's good, especially when there's a dead skunk on the road...that's unless you have your vents in non-recirc. mode, then you'll want to crack your windows to get that stink out!
HEY EVERYONE. I JUST BOUGHT A TL IN MARYLAND. I CALLED EVERYWHERE IN MARYLAND AND VIRGINA AND GOT THE BEST DEAL AT ACURA WEST FROM PAUL HARRISON. YOU CAN REACH HIM AT FUNSUV007@AOL.COM, AND TELL HIM PATTEN SENT YOU. YOU CAN EAMIL ME , AND I WILL TELL YOU THE PRICE I GOT THE TL FOR
thanks for the answer about the compressor. i am going to check things out about the fogging issue with my brother's 2000 Camry which is AIR TIGHT. When you close the doors on that car, your ears pop. Its VERY quiet...sealed like a ziplock bag. I wonder if his windows fog up a lot.
Anyhow, you're right about the difference in gas mileage, but I am not just worried about that. I do a lot of city driving (stop and go traffic) and I am sure I would save at least SOME gas if the compressor wasnt running for no reason. I dont mind it running anyway, but I also want the extra oomph when i hit the accelerator after red lights (compressor takes away power from the car). I know that Japanese compressors (mostly Denso units i have heard) seem to break very easily, and the unnecessary wear by having it pop on and then off again (and then on when it fogs up) doesnt keep peace of mind. Acura should have made the "A/C" button a mechanical button (typical spring-loaded button) so that you can keep the compressor off. Almost every other car I have driven had at least SOME sort of mechanical switch just for the "A/C" even if the other switches were electronic...
just wondering what everyone thinks about this quote i got... i live in the NJ and was quoted $29,237 for a 2001 3.2 TL w/ Nav. Do anyone think i can get a better deal? This quote doesn't include destination costs. How do some people get out of that?!?!
thanks for all of your posts! this site was very useful in my decision making process...
Comments
During the time I had while waiting for the various "managers" to discuss my offer, I had a pleasant conversation with the saleswoman re: the MDX and the TL Type S. They anticipate the Type S will arrive between March and May. Approx. cost will be $2,500 over current TL MSRP (and they expect to get MSRP for the Type S).
Although I was ready to pull the trigger on a 2001 TL, after sitting in the CL Type S and admiring the interior appointments, the 6 disc in-dash cd, the memory seats, etc.... I plan to wait until I can sell my car in the spring (convertible) and buy a TL Type S! Can't hardly wait.
I always set the driver's seat where I would like it and then try the back seat to see if it is comortable. Although I would prefer not to sit in it for long drives w/ the drivers seat in that position, it was not a bad fit. The Maxima seemed to have more room, but the only cars that I truly fit in the back behind a 6' plus driver are the truly luxury sedans (740iL, S80, etc.)
The headroom and backseat room of the TL is not a deterrent in my choice of $30,000 sport/luxury sedans.
Enjoy the car, we love it.
Otherwise, this is a great car.
While I got the delivery, the salesman said: if I could return the survey in blank, he would like to offer me two free oil-change. So far, five weeks past, I still didn't receive my survey, neither the assistant card. Yesterday, called the customer service of the manufacturer and found out surprisingly that my VIN# goes along with a similar name and a totally un-heared address. Checked with my credit union and the dealership, both had correct name and address in their computers. It looked like that the salesman played game too much.
To those who didn't receive the survey, stop complaining about the manufacturer. It may be the salesman's playing trick.
Boomoo
Just to see if there was any noticeable difference I put in three tank fulls of regular then one tank full of the "middle" octane gasoline and then back to premium. I noticed no difference but my dealer did mention that I should not use regular gasoline consistently because this can damage the engine over a long period of time.
My questions are, most importantly, what kind of damage might result if any, and also, what exactly does octane level relate to when gasoline is burned in the engine, how and why is valve timing adjusted accordingly, exactly what causes knocking and why are cars designed for premium gasoline?
the damage they are talking about is heat damage. did you ever see a car with the timing off? the exhaust manifold gets way way red hot. when you use regular gas normally, the engine is running unusually hot all the time which obviously is not good. but once in a while when you're stuck without premium, it's ok. but unless you're really pushing it or going up a lot of steep hills, you won't notice a difference in performance...but it is still having an effect on the engine.
my suggestion is, you bought a pretty expensive car, premium isn't that much more expensive, just go for the premium.
something to thik about...i heard that some people got worse mileage with regular gas on cars that required premium, so it evens out using premium in those cars...i dont' know if the tl is one of them. i have a cl-s, but the compression ratio is even higher than the tl, so i'm not gonna risk regular gas....i did try cheap (redners brand) premium one time and DID notice a BIG difference if that's worth anything.
but the damage caused probably won't show itself until after the warranty is gone...ie it's a long term issue.
Dean078 mentioned that the damage would be heat damage. I assume this means the temperature gauge reading would be high at some times. I never noticed the temperature gauge reading high while using regular gas.
i doubt you did any significant or relevant damage at all, but as i mentioned before, it's a long term issue where you won't see any real damage unless you consistently use regular for a long long time (1+ year).
Acura's DVD system is rated the highest. The top 11 systems mentioned rated at least fairly decent. It is interesting to note that the RL ratest highest, TL a close third and Odyssey sixth even though they are almost identical. I am not sure why that would be. (I think the RL has more memory for saving locations than the TL and its screen is slightly wider.)
I would have liked to have seen a comparison of detailed street coverage between the systems since that has been a topic of discussion here recently with the recent DVD upgrade but that was not addressed in the report.
Lexus GS and Lexus LS use the same supplier but have significantly different ratings. Are they differently designed systems?
Jaguar-XK8 and Jaguar-S use different suppliers, also with significantly different ratings. Is this a typo or else why would they use two different suppliers?
And that's why I drive a TL!
Randy
i didn't think 1/2" in screen size or the fact the the buttons are on the right instead of left made that much of a difference, but obviously to them it does.
but besides screen size, the system itself is the same system.
At least that's how most kill switches work. I thought the electronic lock on the TL is just a chip in the key that prevents the ignition from turning over if the proper key with the matching chip in the key is not inserted.
I didn't think this was supposed to stop any normal key from opening the door.
Comments?
'Guru', 'Mantra' etc....
Regarding the TL -- we've now owned ours for one year. Mostly love it, but it has a few flaws.
On the maintenance side, we're still waiting for our new seatbelt sensors. The armrest rattles when it's fully extended. And that's it.
Very smooth and powerful, and good handling, but I still find the tranny to be a little jerky in 1 and 2. The car is quiet, except for a little tire slap.
Visibility is great, and the traction control and tires give good handling in winter. The passenger side windshield wiper is an annoyance when clearing ice.
The kids feel like royalty in the back seat--the windows go down all the way, air vents, and a large center arm rest make travelling a dream.
Cheers.
Randy
Also, how is the installation done? Do they drill into the roof or does it just snap in place?
it ? I ride pretty frequently over some sections of rough roads and the ride is very compliant...
Later...AH
Boomoo
i don't listen to dealers, my dealer told me "this car has exxon headlights." i'm like cool, not only do they make oil, they make headlights! (to screw with him).
he also told me the anti-sway bar (on my cl-s) was to keep the engine from getting pushed into the cabin during a crash...i guess if you don't know what it's for, that's what you would generalize.
Also, I am considering a Maxima GLE with almost every option available. The Maxima is 1.4K less. Any advice?
Thanks.
Better Resale. 5 speed SS, HID .. all standard. I definitely get a TL over a maxima. Better Name too
Maxima has non-independent (rear-beam axle) rear suspension, onky car in this segment to have such a cost cutting. TL has double wishbone which is found on costlier models of Lexus/Benz (gs series)
Most of the guys found TL a better buy when it was going for MSRP.
I guess I'll have to think about it a little more.
Thanks again
Dealer suggested I release belt slower. Has anyone else experienced this problem & any other suggested remedies. (car man thanks)
when i release my seatbelt, i usually release it and pull it to the left quickly, on most cars this usually picks up any slack and prevents the thing from hitting anything...but on my cl-s, i keep on banging it on sometimes the window, which i guess is better than anywhere else 'cuz it wouldn't leave a nick on the window, just break it, but it hasn't broken yet (Thank God).
but i wouldn't worry about gas mileage when heating...the compressor works harder to cool (take heat in cabin and "force" it to hotter ambient) than it is to use heat produced from the engine and put it in the cooler interior, as heat naturally flows to cooler ambient (it's NOT a heat pump, so it's NOT doing "reverse" cooling which takes a lot of energy too).
the only function of the compressor in this case is to remove moisture...in cooling mode, it's removing moisture and removing heat, and the removing heat part is the part that requires a lot of energy.
trust me, all things being equal (driving habits, etc.), you'll notice at most, $0.50 a fillup, if any at all.
(i'm a mechanical engineer and had 2 semesters of this thermodynamics crap...never thought this stuff would come in use though...funny.)
i think it's good, especially when there's a dead skunk on the road...that's unless you have your vents in non-recirc. mode, then you'll want to crack your windows to get that stink out!
Anyhow, you're right about the difference in gas mileage, but I am not just worried about that. I do a lot of city driving (stop and go traffic) and I am sure I would save at least SOME gas if the compressor wasnt running for no reason. I dont mind it running anyway, but I also want the extra oomph when i hit the accelerator after red lights (compressor takes away power from the car). I know that Japanese compressors (mostly Denso units i have heard) seem to break very easily, and the unnecessary wear by having it pop on and then off again (and then on when it fogs up) doesnt keep peace of mind. Acura should have made the "A/C" button a mechanical button (typical spring-loaded button) so that you can keep the compressor off. Almost every other car I have driven had at least SOME sort of mechanical switch just for the "A/C" even if the other switches were electronic...
thanks for all of your posts! this site was very useful in my decision making process...