They are not going to be $45K USD. No reason be up in arms already. They cannot sell them for more than the competition or the same price as something better. If they are trying to sell them for $45K. Just buy something else. Problem solved.
there are also sorts of guess as to what the car is going to cost. But, Honda has said all along that it will be priced a bit more than the old S-type. So, I'm guessing about $32,000 to $33,000 without nav. About $34,000 to $35,000 with nav. Destination charges are always $500 for Acura (except the NSX). They'll also be a few hidden costs (like mudflaps,wheel locks, etc). So, in other words, a loaded TL is still less than a loaded 325i. Its still a pretty decent deal.
The IS and RX are the only things that strike me in their line-up. Everybody list Cadillac as a premium brand ands the CTs starts at what 29K? The RSX/Integra has always been an Acura branded car. I call Acura mid-luxury myself. The G35 starts at 28K I think.
Just for fun, sale price $38-39K....out the door for $45K....Wow!! Your state must have some out-of-this-world fees and taxes!! ;-)
TL price - I either said this earlier here or on a TSX board, can't remember.....I agree some folks are going to not be able to afford the more expensive TL. So, mr. salesman says, "That's OK. Look over here. We've got this wonderful TSX that we can sell for several thousand less." I think Acura has positioned itself pretty well. The TSX is so good, it won't seem like much of a compromise when Joe Cool, Jr. finds out he can't afford 35 large. I think the introduction of the TL actually has the potential to increase TSX sales because it will bring people into the showroom who find they can't afford a TL, but they'd have never stopped to look at the TSX.
If Billy Bob Joe comes in the Acura dealership with a loan out for $28,990 and wants a car, but the salesperson says that the TL stickers for $33, so he can't afford it. No problem. He can still buy a loaded TSX for $28,990 with a NAV.
uncledave - I said I was going to check out the cars at the State Fair of Texas this week. Well, I probably won't. To my surprise Acura isn't displaying. Acura's just a little weird, aren't they? I can't understand it - a hot selling new smaller car, launching a super-duper new larger car, not to mention the popularity of the MDX. I guess Acura thinks they don't need the exposure. Even Lexus has been there the last 2 or 3 years. They used to never have a display.
btw - they say the State Fair of Texas is the largest in the country. It has a pretty good size car show.
despite being a very happy new bmw owner, i've to caution you, too many bmw owners are privately screaming in agony on ownership issues... go check the forums for yourself.. that is just the tip of the iceberg...
There has been some discussion that the new TSX does not have heated mirrors in the US but does in Canada. Has anyone heard will the US version of the TL have heated mirrors. It didn't use to be a concern, but the humidity is so high where I live now, you get morning dew all the time if you leave your car out.
Has anyone notices the pictures on the Acura site look frumpy because the dimensions are not proportional to the actual ones ?
I thought I'd read that it does have heated mirrors. But, I just checked Acura.com and HondaNews.com and I can't find any mention of it. I don't understand that. It's a part of every other "cold weather/heated seats" pkg I can think of. I know Acura doesn't do pkgs. Maybe that's why I (and alot of others) just expected it along with the standard heated seats.
weird - in the TL section of Honda News there is an entire section about the side mirrors and there is not a single mention of heat. They talk about blue tint, transmission-in-reverse tilt function, and aerodynamics. If they're there is seems weird they don't tout it.
That is exactly what they do in the rest of the world. "Acura" is simply a division within the "American" Honda Motor Corporation. Acura defines it as premium but, guess what, the cars are built in the US just like most Honda's, the fit and finish is the same (good to very good, but not exceptional), the service is essentially the same and the models are almost all priced from <$20-$32k.
If you need another comparison, do a quick one yourself of the two flagships: the Lexus LS430 vs. the Acura RL. It's easy to see that the LS430 is truly worthy of being labeled "premium". It's made in Japan to impecible quality and fit and finish standards and with cutting edge technology (6-speed auto, powerful V8, all the latest safety devices, etc.). By comparison, the RL is made in Ohio and appears to be nothing more than a $45k Acura brand name milk job. It's engineering (4 speed auto, FWD, underpowered V6) is pitiful for a so-called flagship. The only worse offense was Acura's past rebadging of a Isuzu Trooper inot the Acura SLX for a $10k "premium".
If you like your Acura for what it is, great. I think they are fine cars. But if you get an ego boost over driving a "PREMIUM" brand, then I suspect we either have different definitions of premium or different ego needs.
So please, pray tell, why do YOU think Acura is a premium brand over Honda?? Please, no marketing or sales pitches. Give it to me in actual facts about the cars themselves. And remember, I own an S2000 which has singlehandedly required or utilized more Honda racing technology and engineering innovation than all Acuras of the past 5 years combined. Not to mention that it is made in Japan at one of the highest regarded plants in the world.
P.S. I am calling Acura "premium" brand defenders to the mat on this because I actually do want to see Honda put some of its vast capabilities and resources to good use in producing a higher line of truly premium vehicles. Nothing in the Acura line-up will cause me to think twice about getting a BMW 5-series or even a 3 series. I already own one of only two RWD cars made by the entire company and the other won't carry any more passengers for three times the price.
I don't want to get into a long debate over this silly topic. I have a 3.2TL Type S, and I am as proud as a peacock driving this car. I would buy this car over any Bimmer 5 series apart from the M-5 or the 540.Don't even mention the 3 series and IS-300, IN MY BOOK those car are just out right garbage for the money you pay(hope I didn't offend any owners).
In any event, you are calling all the major car publications LIARS, because they all list Acura as a premium brand.
The point you are making just does not make any sense.In your previous post you mention about Acura not selling any of their cars for over 45k. Ford has a line up that consist of cars/trucks over 45k- ok, lets now call Ford a premiun brand-yeah right.
The thing is, you are missing the point. Acura's main sales objective is to sell premium cars at an affordable price and that is why they keep on beating Infiniti and if I am not mistaken they beat out Lexus last year.
You keep picking on the RL and as a matter of fact I see more of them on the street than any Lexus LS430/400. The car is due for a major mechanical/facelift in about a year or so, so please don't sleep on it.
I apologize if this has been dicussed before ... does the TL have fold down rear seats? I thought the current model did not (at least that's what the dealer told me back 4 years ago when I was looking at them).
Uncledavid mentioned in another thread that the 6-speed TL is delayed until November also the A-spec. Most of his information seems to be ahead of the news curve and accurate. Has anyone heard the availability of different combinations. And apparently in Canada you can't get A-spec with the navigation option.
Can anyone confirm when and what will be available?
Without getting into the premium debate, I did want to correct an error in your post:
"Acura's main sales objective is to sell premium cars at an affordable price and that is why they keep on beating Infiniti and if I am not mistaken they beat out Lexus last year."
Gouldn - no, the TL will not have fold down seats. I think the only Acura sedan to offer that feature is the TSX. The TL will have some sort of trunk pass through.
I won't be surprised if the US version doesn't have it. Honda always eliminate it fromt he US version. It happened on Odyssey, Pilot, (not sure about MDX) and 2000-2001 TL (not sure about later version). I live in CA ao the impact is almost none. But for whom live in the northern area, this is unwised decision. I still can't think of any other reason than saving cost. Even though they didn't save much but could appeal more and maybe sell more.
i just bought a 2003 acura tl and i need to know if it's alright to use the auto-off headlight feature. i checked 2 dealers and they said don't depend on the auto-off feature because it was for if i really forgot to turn it off. is it a big deal if i leave it on because they turn off after 20 seconds anyway. also how long does the xenon bulb last and about how much does it cost to replace one? if someone knows please post a message for me. thanks
So call Premium in my definition is the image you will pay a lot than the main stream to show your wealth and taste. My opinion on Acura Premium or not is very personal feeling. One thing for sure is Acura doesn't differeential itself enough from Honda. They have the lineup that Honda have one version saved for the NSX and RL. Even RL modified from Accord and share same main design of Engine with Honda brand. I understand their pain since they emphasis sporty than luxury. Without a Flagship that really compete MB, BMW and Lexus, their image of "Premium" won't secure. I bet Acura has trying very hard to develop V8 engine for next RL or other name of the Flagship model that compete with LS430, S500 or BMW 746i. the V8 engine also will improve their SUV, at least on MDX, up to par of leader such as ML500, X5 4.6 or Lexus LX470. V6 can't tow much and not strong enough for 4500+ lb SUV. Until then, the prestige of Acura then will establish. If Lexus only has E330 and RX-330, not many people will think Lexus as a premium. Isn't it? At least among our friends and my wife. None of then accept Acura as Premium brand. Not even the Infinity. Lexus is teh only Japanese brand they will call premium due to LS430 and LX470.
the auto-off function alreafy exist in newer midsize and up models in Honda/Acura lineup. My Odyssey has it and it works very well. If you forgot to turn off the light, it will shut off after 2 minutes or so. Next time you turn on the engine, it's on again. Or it will turn off right after locking the car by remote. I am not sure what type of design is on Tl. But I will surprise if it doesn't have this feature.
I think I can broker a compromise between Habitat and Lenscap, as follows: A "true premium" car has BOTH cutting edge technology AND laps of luxury, and therefore demands a much higher price (example, LS 430, MB S-series, BMW 7 series, Audi S8, NSX etc). A "semi-premium" car has ONLY technology OR luxury(but not both), and therefore demands a moderately higher price (example RL, BMW 5 series, Lexus GS series, Audi A6 etc).
If you want to be even more precise, you can classify "premium" cars into more categories, so that you can precisely pigeon-hole each car into its respective class of premiumness (if there is such a word).
IMHO, it does not serve any useful purpose in arguing whether a particular car is "premium". Instead, it may be better to focus on the car itself and its purported competitors before assigning the appropriate classifications.
Generally speaking, however, it is common understanding that Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Audi etc. are "better" brands than their respective "underlings" -- i.e. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW -- which are, in fact, the names of the parent corporations.
Sorry Pat for dwelling on this despite your warning. I am just trying to settle a dispute :-)
Just got my 03 TL. Everything is to my expectation but only 1 thing. When I stop in front of red light, I can feel some tiny vibration from the seat. When switch to 'N', you won't feel it. Is that normal for a new car have some vibration even it's tiny? Thanks advance for any inputs.
in a "premium" car (or anything else) then you may be among the many that are not bothered by mediocrity, so long as it doesn't bear the stigma of low cost.
APPARENT differentiation between Honda/Acura models (or Nissn/Infinity, Toyota/Lexus Chevrolet/Buick or whatever) does not concern me. The only relevant measure is the value received for price paid. I buy a car to drive, not to be seen in, and it matters not a whit what image someone ELSE may hold of my car.
Thanks for your attempt to broker a compromise, but you actually identified the issue that I think billyperks and I will continue to disagree on:
"Generally speaking, however, it is common understanding that Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Audi etc. are "better" brands than their respective "underlings" -- i.e. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW..."
Billy appears to be relying on such "common" knowledge and quoting industry magazines for supporting his claim that Acura is a "better" brand than Honda. I, on the other hand, tend to do my own research and analysis and not blindly follow "common" thinking. My test drives and research and analysis of the facts does not support that Acura is any "better" of a brand than Honda. As best I can tell, they are intrinsically the same quality of car, with similar engineering, safety, etc. I will also add the anecdotal evidence that several friends and colleagues who own Acura MDX's (fine vehicle) have recently expressed frustration that Acura has absolutely nothing in the way of a slightly upscale to premium RWD sedan. How can a "premium" car company have nothing at all to offer a prospective 5-series, E-class or GS buyer? What the hell is Acura's definition of "premium"? Another FWD twist on a 4 or 6 cylinder Accord sedan or coupe?
I happen to believe that Lexus is a premium brand over Toyota and that BMW is more of an "ultimate driving machine" than the competition. But I came to these opinions not because of susceptibility to marketing pitches aimed at the common thinker, but rather from being willing to do my own research, test drives, etc. For the record, I have owned a total of 2 Acura's, 2 Honda's, 0 Lexus, 0 BMW's. So I don't think I have a conflict of interest.
I apologize to the group and host for be-laboring this issue. But to justify it in the TL forum, perhaps I should ask the question: How should a "premium" TL buyer be treated differently than a run of the mill Honda Accord buyer relative to ongoing (still) transmission failures. Do you really think Acura has approached this problem with a "premium" response?
Yes, we do need to put this line of conversation in an appropriate discussion.
Thanks fwatson - we can try having this discussion in Sedans, but it might be better placed in News & Views as I suggested yesterday. Let's see how it goes.
This discussion needs to get back on topic now - specifically the Acura TL.
The first model year 2003-no Pilot had the heated mirrors and seats in the US. It was only available in Canada. Now for 2004 they have both on the EX-L. They have added not eliminated the features.
I just placed a $1,000 deposit on a 2004 TL. The car is expected into the dealership in mid-October. This car was part of the ealer's initial order. I was told if I waited the next TL with auto & GPS nav wouldn't be available until January. The dealer said I could get a full refund if I didn't like the car or the lease payments.
The brochure has been scanned and uploaded to the acura enthusiast site. I'd give you the URL, but moderators generally don't like it when you post links to competing sites. If you can get me an e-mail address, I'll send you the link.
uncledave - Is that the same link "midnight cowboy" posted a while back? That page is over quota for Sept. Since tomorrow's the 1st it'll be available again.
The new TL does have heated mirrors and it is in the Honda News under a different section. It does not have fold down seats but has a lockable pass through behind the rear armrest. The first production model will be at the San Antonio TX auto show on Oct 2nd - Oct 5th.
For those of you in the San Antonio area. According to the SA Express-News, Gunn Acura will actually have a couple of production 04 Acura TL's on the showroom floor for viewing as of tomorrow.
For the New 04 TL there will be two different spoilers to choose from....a regular spoiler and a deck lid spoiler. I used to think i wanted the standard spoiler but now that i've seen both i think i'd opt for the deck lid spoiler because it's a bit more subtle. I still love the rest of the aero package (body kit) but i think the regular spoiler is a bit much...in my own opinion it makes it look somewhat ricey. What do you guys think?
This past weekend, I actually saw the new '04 TL on the highway, in Toronto. I'm driving my '00 TL and I spotted the car coming off the hwy ramp. At first, I mistook it for a TSX but when I quickly caught up to it, it was definitely an '04 TL, in white pearl. So, I'm driving behind it for 20 minutes - meanwhile, I'm on my phone to my dealer (I'm on the waiting list for a 6MT model). I ask him "Why am I driving behind an '04 TL?" He says "...about a dozen cars were already delivered in Ontario to Acura/Honda's head office for the executives to drive...".
Anyway, the car looks hot but I wouldn't get it in white pearl.
Comments
If they are trying to sell them for $45K. Just buy something else. Problem solved.
TL price - I either said this earlier here or on a TSX board, can't remember.....I agree some folks are going to not be able to afford the more expensive TL. So, mr. salesman says, "That's OK. Look over here. We've got this wonderful TSX that we can sell for several thousand less." I think Acura has positioned itself pretty well. The TSX is so good, it won't seem like much of a compromise when Joe Cool, Jr. finds out he can't afford 35 large. I think the introduction of the TL actually has the potential to increase TSX sales because it will bring people into the showroom who find they can't afford a TL, but they'd have never stopped to look at the TSX.
btw - they say the State Fair of Texas is the largest in the country. It has a pretty good size car show.
Has anyone notices the pictures on the Acura site look frumpy because the dimensions are not proportional to the actual ones ?
Nice try buddy.
In my book Acura is "PREMIUM".
If you need another comparison, do a quick one yourself of the two flagships: the Lexus LS430 vs. the Acura RL. It's easy to see that the LS430 is truly worthy of being labeled "premium". It's made in Japan to impecible quality and fit and finish standards and with cutting edge technology (6-speed auto, powerful V8, all the latest safety devices, etc.). By comparison, the RL is made in Ohio and appears to be nothing more than a $45k Acura brand name milk job. It's engineering (4 speed auto, FWD, underpowered V6) is pitiful for a so-called flagship. The only worse offense was Acura's past rebadging of a Isuzu Trooper inot the Acura SLX for a $10k "premium".
If you like your Acura for what it is, great. I think they are fine cars. But if you get an ego boost over driving a "PREMIUM" brand, then I suspect we either have different definitions of premium or different ego needs.
So please, pray tell, why do YOU think Acura is a premium brand over Honda?? Please, no marketing or sales pitches. Give it to me in actual facts about the cars themselves. And remember, I own an S2000 which has singlehandedly required or utilized more Honda racing technology and engineering innovation than all Acuras of the past 5 years combined. Not to mention that it is made in Japan at one of the highest regarded plants in the world.
P.S. I am calling Acura "premium" brand defenders to the mat on this because I actually do want to see Honda put some of its vast capabilities and resources to good use in producing a higher line of truly premium vehicles. Nothing in the Acura line-up will cause me to think twice about getting a BMW 5-series or even a 3 series. I already own one of only two RWD cars made by the entire company and the other won't carry any more passengers for three times the price.
I have a 3.2TL Type S, and I am as proud as a peacock driving this car.
I would buy this car over any Bimmer 5 series apart from the M-5 or the 540.Don't even mention the 3 series and IS-300, IN MY BOOK those car are just out right garbage for the money you pay(hope I didn't offend any owners).
In any event, you are calling all the major car publications LIARS, because they all list Acura as a premium brand.
The point you are making just does not make any sense.In your previous post you mention about Acura not selling any of their cars for over 45k.
Ford has a line up that consist of cars/trucks over 45k- ok, lets now call Ford a premiun brand-yeah right.
The thing is, you are missing the point.
Acura's main sales objective is to sell premium cars at an affordable price and that is why they keep on beating Infiniti and if I am not mistaken they beat out Lexus last year.
You keep picking on the RL and as a matter of fact I see more of them on the street than any Lexus LS430/400.
The car is due for a major mechanical/facelift in about a year or so, so please don't sleep on it.
Final analysis-Acura is Premium
Perhaps a discussion named something like "Is Acura a Premium Brand or Not?" might be in order on our News & Views board?
Meanwhile, let's remember that we are discussing the TL in this topic.
Thanks.
Can anyone confirm when and what will be available?
"Acura's main sales objective is to sell premium cars at an affordable price and that is why they keep on beating Infiniti and if I am not mistaken they beat out Lexus last year."
2002 Lexus sales: 234,109
2002 Acura sales: 165,552
the auto-off function alreafy exist in newer midsize and up models in Honda/Acura lineup. My Odyssey has it and it works very well. If you forgot to turn off the light, it will shut off after 2 minutes or so. Next time you turn on the engine, it's on again. Or it will turn off right after locking the car by remote. I am not sure what type of design is on Tl. But I will surprise if it doesn't have this feature.
If you want to be even more precise, you can
classify "premium" cars into more categories, so that you can precisely pigeon-hole each car into its respective class of premiumness (if there is such a word).
IMHO, it does not serve any useful purpose in arguing whether a particular car is "premium". Instead, it may be better to focus on the car itself and its purported competitors before assigning the appropriate classifications.
Generally speaking, however, it is common understanding that Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Audi etc. are "better" brands than their respective "underlings" -- i.e. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW -- which are, in fact, the names of the parent corporations.
Sorry Pat for dwelling on this despite your warning. I am just trying to settle a dispute :-)
annoying noise that probably comes from around
dash board or.. where the speedometer is at?
MDX has heated mirrors as standard.
APPARENT differentiation between Honda/Acura models (or Nissn/Infinity, Toyota/Lexus Chevrolet/Buick or whatever) does not concern me. The only relevant measure is the value received for price paid. I buy a car to drive, not to be seen in, and it matters not a whit what image someone ELSE may hold of my car.
Your mileage may vary.
"Generally speaking, however, it is common understanding that Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Audi etc. are "better" brands than their respective "underlings" -- i.e. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW..."
Billy appears to be relying on such "common" knowledge and quoting industry magazines for supporting his claim that Acura is a "better" brand than Honda. I, on the other hand, tend to do my own research and analysis and not blindly follow "common" thinking. My test drives and research and analysis of the facts does not support that Acura is any "better" of a brand than Honda. As best I can tell, they are intrinsically the same quality of car, with similar engineering, safety, etc. I will also add the anecdotal evidence that several friends and colleagues who own Acura MDX's (fine vehicle) have recently expressed frustration that Acura has absolutely nothing in the way of a slightly upscale to premium RWD sedan. How can a "premium" car company have nothing at all to offer a prospective 5-series, E-class or GS buyer? What the hell is Acura's definition of "premium"? Another FWD twist on a 4 or 6 cylinder Accord sedan or coupe?
I happen to believe that Lexus is a premium brand over Toyota and that BMW is more of an "ultimate driving machine" than the competition. But I came to these opinions not because of susceptibility to marketing pitches aimed at the common thinker, but rather from being willing to do my own research, test drives, etc. For the record, I have owned a total of 2 Acura's, 2 Honda's, 0 Lexus, 0 BMW's. So I don't think I have a conflict of interest.
I apologize to the group and host for be-laboring this issue. But to justify it in the TL forum, perhaps I should ask the question: How should a "premium" TL buyer be treated differently than a run of the mill Honda Accord buyer relative to ongoing (still) transmission failures. Do you really think Acura has approached this problem with a "premium" response?
fwatson "What is a "Premium" Car?" Sep 30, 2003 7:57am
Thanks fwatson - we can try having this discussion in Sedans, but it might be better placed in News & Views as I suggested yesterday. Let's see how it goes.
This discussion needs to get back on topic now - specifically the Acura TL.
Thanks.
Has anyone physically seen a production '04 TL yet? i.e. sitting in a dealer's back lot or at car show, etc.
Who's already got plans to buy one? Any specific indication from the dealer on pricing?
Now, do yourselves a favor. Go back and delete the post that contains your e-mail address so it doens't wind up on some spammer's hit list.
Anyway, the car looks hot but I wouldn't get it in white pearl.