Older Acura TLs

mjb20

Does anyone REALLY know if the tranny is the same POS that is in the current CL and TL? I have a 2001 CL and am about to go to my second tranny changeout...I already feel it slipping between 2nd and 3rd. What a pile of ----! I don't drive wild at all...as a matter of fact I NEVER even use the manual mode, or downshift, etc. Cars got 72K miles...in other words, I really like the new 2004 look, BUT I'm not willing to go through the tranny game again. Please tell me it's completely re-designed or something!!

ruski

I just have my lights always in On position. I drive with the lights on all the time. When I shut the car off, the lights are off 30 seconds later I think.

I really wish the car had auto-on feature as well. All my previous cars had that.

kahunah

Hey bodble2 - You mentioned your preference for the Navi Package with 5AT (Canada). What do you think about Acura's decision to "simplify" the auto-shifter? They've replaced the "D5,D4,D3,2,1" positions with just "D" (drive) & "L" (low) positions. Which gear is "L" anyway? Sequential-sport shifting is the same as previous models.

With my 2000 TL, I tend to downshift using seq. shifting but I still like to use the "D5,D4,D3,2,1" positions for various other driving conditions and situations. I don't like giving up that much control to an automatic system. That's why I'm opting for the 6MT package on the '04 TL.

By the way, I've never had a problem with my '00 TL auto tranny. I'm sure the '04 will be even better.

colinz

how long have you had your car? if it's always on, won't the xenon bulb burn quicker?

fwatson

My concern with the always leave them on philosophy is that as long as you have a relatively new battery, no problem. But headlights draw a large current, and if that battery has started to weaken you might just find yourself calling the auto club or walking to the nearest battery dealer to get rescued. I would use that feature only as an emergency backup in case you don't hear the warning chime for removing the key with the headlights still on.

scott31

The TL's lights automatically turn off after a time when you leave them on after you leave the car.

fwatson

Quote: "The TL's lights automatically turn off after a time when you leave them on after you leave the car."

------------------------------------------

That is true of most if not all auto headlight systems. That doesn't keep a weak battery from wearing out even quicker and leaving you stranded when there isn't enough current left in your battery to start your car, regardless of brand or model.

varmint

Looks like I lost my bet. :-(

varmint Jul 17, 2003 10:10am

One dealer has reported a sticker of $32,650 including destination charge. I was off by about $500.

tturedraider

Just guessing here. Since it seems that Nav is not going to be available as soon as non-Nav, I'll bet that price is for a "regular". With Nav, $2000 + $32652 = $34,650 .

Whadya think?

varmint

Yep, that is the base price. NAV is reported to be $2,000 as before. No pricing was given for the A-spec packages. Dunno if the 6MT and 5AT will have the same base price (as Acura did with the TSX).

There was also a report that the destination charge has risen to $545. All together this new price is about $800 higher than the out-going Type S model. Not too shabby, IMO.

jboucheb

Is that for an Automatic or Stick? With Nav or no?

And what is this rumor that they might introduce an S-Type package in 2005 or 2006?? Is that remotely true?

If so, can we "buy into" the upgrade after we purchase our 2004 or are we screwed?

kyfdx

I was with you....I was expecting $31,990. I think we came closer than most... Most were guessing $34K-35K. Its just like The Price Is Right.. If you go over, you lose... Now, send me my prize.. LOL

regards,
kyfdx

varmint

Jboucheb - Scroll back up. I think I snuck in explanation while you typed your questions.

As for the Type S, don't hold your breath. And anyone who claims that they know what Acura or Honda is doing, is FOB (full of baloney).

bodble2

I'm getting lazy in my old age (actually middle age), but I like the simplified shifter. I rarely go into SS, and never downshift using the regular gate! In fact, I think with the SS, you really only need the "D" position a la Volvo Geartronic, Mercedes ML, or the new sport shifter on the RX330. That way you would avoid overshooting the shifter into D4 or D3, or L.

If I didn't have to use my car for work, I would go for the 6MT. But as know, here in Vancouver, with no highway system, commuting is all city driving, and with a manual, I'd be constantly riding the clutch. Definitely no fun!

fdefulvio

I've read that it is $32,650 + $500 destination for a total of $33,150, and the destination is supposed to increase to $545 on Oct. 2.

varmint

Fdefluvio - You are correct. My mistake. I just went back and reread the post (we're probably looking at the same site).

uncledavid

Most posters were predicting that the TL NAV would be about $35,500 with destination. If the Nav costs and additional $2,000 over base (which is typical in the Acura line), you're looking at a retail price of roughly $35,200.

jboucheb

WOW again. I just looked at Edmunds TMV for a 2003 Type S w/Nav, and it's $30,092. Hmm..let's do the math. That's Over 5K in difference. Is the 2004 really worth it for that price? In my mind, I don't think so...

(just my 2 cents).

lovegoodcar

Hi everyone, I talked to the manager of an acura dealer, he told me the 0-60 is about 6.1sec for the new acura. He was kind of clueless about the Aspec mentioned in the forums.

6.1 is way better than new BMW 530i.

-lovenicecars

2003 Acura TL
2001 Mercedes C240

clpurnell

For basically at 5% power boost and some features the competitors already have I don't think it's worth it at sticker. Buy a loaded G35 at 400 over invoice and save 2k.

jboucheb

Yep, especially when the NEW ALL-WHEEL Drive G35x is right around the corner too. I'm definitely checking into that first....

I tried to paste the link below:
http://www.infiniti.com/content/0,3323,cid-31106_sctid-52321,00.h- tml?CurrentState=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Einfiniti%2Ecom%2F&SourceP- age=Global%3AHomepage%3AHomepage

uncledavid

the problem here is that your are comparing MSRP to the discounted price on a car right before a model change. So, TL-S prices are right now at an alltime low (dealers are anxiously trying to move the 2003 off their lot before the 2004 arrives). But, bottom line is that the new TL is a big improvement over the old TL-S along a number of dimensions, and the hike in price is not all that signficant. For only a bit more than the 2003 model, you get curtain air bags, brakeAssist and EBD, improved handling, acceleration, and ride, greatly improved interior comfort, a newer and more state-of-the-art nav system, and a more other features than I can begin to name here.

In my view, at $35,000 that car is an absolute steal. And, yeah, you can get other cars like the G35 at lower prices because of widely available discounts. But, those vehicles will cost more in the end because of steep depreciation. Also, discounts will be availabe on the TL once interest calms down.

As for the G35, check out the interior of the two cars and then tell me which you would rather live with on a day-to-day basis for the next five years.

The only real reason to go with the G35 is that Infiniti dealers are much easier to live with than Acura dealers (who tend to be pretty arrogant and not oriented toward service).

clpurnell

resale of the 03 G so far is outstanding a premium package car used is about 28k new it stickered for 33k but probably sold around 31k. Yeah that 10% hit in the first year is awful steep. Go ask terry in real world trade in values if the price of G's are falling like rocks. Maybe you are thinking of the I's. Even then you can get the same equipment and performance of a type s for 26k new.

midnightcowboy

The G35 sedans are selling for close to invoice; that is a rock drop. G35 Coupes are about $500 less than MSRP; not too bad! Drove a sedan 6-speed ; it was okay, about the same as my 5-speed IS300. I am holding out for the 6-speed TL

varmint

Try adding a 6 speed transmission, better brakes, and an LSD to the 2003 TL-S and see how much it costs.

uncledavid

Is .57, according to cars.com. That is very competitive with any car in the class, with the possible exception of the BMW. So, I could be wrong.

I think those who bought the G35 when it first came out (and paid close to MSRP) will take a big hit. But, those who got it at a big discount, might do OK.

mjb20

Wow...hopefully they put some effort in a new tranny..or maybe Acura can install a quick disconnect for tranny of the week!! Actually I really hope this has been fixed, I've played this game with acura enough...and I really do want a new TL!!

dulnev

Check out all the horror stories about the G35 problems with breaks, AC, rattles and squeeks, etc. Outside of the transmission issue, the reliability and interior materials quality of the 2003 TL is WAY better than that of G35.

The 2004 TL is a new car and is bound to suffer from the same problems as the previous generation TL did in its first year on the market. But I don't believe it will ever see anywhere near the number and frequency of problems that G35 exhibits.

I just had a transmission failure in my 2003 TL-S and that makes me quite unhappy. I did a round of research into competing vehicles, including owners' trouble reports. There's still no other car that is as good or better than TL-S in a similar price range.

I'm going to look at 2004 TL, when it's out, but I'd be mad to pay MSRP for it. It really is not worth the extra $5,000. If I were to quantify how much the better interior, various gadgets, potential better handling and other small improvements are worth to me, I would say no more than $2,000. If I can get the base 2004 TL for $30,000, I probably will.

jrock65

So, the MSRP, similarly configured as a base TL:

ES330 = $34,980
G35 = $34,095
TL = $33,195

TL will be at $33,000 for a while, while the ES330 and the G35 can be had for about $32,000. Whatever your choice, I feel that all of these are fantastic deals. Just four or five years ago, you had to pay $50,000 to get a car with the features and performance of these cars.

For some cars, such as the 2004 530i, I guess you still pay $50,000. Configuring the 530i as close as possible to a base TL, the MSRP is $50,220. To be fair, the 530i has more standard features and a better combination of sport and luxury (good quality interior with RWD) than the TL, G35 or ES330, but I just don't think it's worth the extra $17,000.

jchan2

I think that the TL is worth the extra $5000 because it is jam packed full of technology. I can't wait for the October 6th release date!

bodble2

Whether it's $5,000 difference, or more, or less, a large chunk of that will be recouped come resale time, unless you keep the car for 15 - 20 years. But lets face it, most people turn their cars over every 4 - 5 years.

ruski

you get out of the car, shut the door, wait 30 seconds - the lights get turned off. I don't see how that would kill the battery.

But it beats driving around without lights when it is starting to get dark 'cause Acura for some reason did not install an auto-on feature.

bigbluu

"So, the MSRP, similarly configured as a base TL:

ES330 = $34,980
G35 = $34,095
TL = $33,195

TL will be at $33,000 for a while, while the ES330 and the G35 can be had for about $32,000. Whatever your choice, I feel that all of these are fantastic deals. Just four or five years ago, you had to pay $50,000 to get a car with the features and performance of these cars"

Are you pricing new 04' models? I just did it for the G35 at carsdirect.com and it came out to $36,520 w/ Navi, $2000 less for no Navi. Yeah, you can probably get discounts for the competition on '03 models - just like the TL's, but I doubt you'll see any discounts for '04 models that just came out.

mrkn

I just got a 04 TL brochure from my Acura dealer. I noticed that the new TL has slightly less leg room than the previous model. This is dissapointing to me since most of it's direct competitors have grown. However, I did notice that the front leg room has slightly increased. The old TL had 42.4" of front and 35" of rear leg room. The new TL has 42.8" of front and 34.9" of rear leg room. Does anyone know how rear leg room is actually determined. Is it with the front seat fully pushed back? If I require 41" of front leg room rather than the available 42.8", does it mean the the rear passengers will actually have more leg room in the new TL versus the previous model.

bodble2

I think rear legroom is actually measured at maximum with the front seat fully pushed forward. Just think about it, at 35 inches, that's almost 3 feet! No sedan would have that much rear legroom if the front seats are not fully forward.

And the new TL only has .1 inch less rear legroom. I wouldn't lose any sleep over that since the extra .4 inch of max front legroom will allow you to more than compensate for that.

I'm actually surprised at the lack of concern expressed over the new TL's trunk space. 12.5 cu ft is not a lot for a 4-door family sedan. It would really p*ss me off if I can't take my family of 4 on vacation in this car 'cause the trunk can't hold our luggage. It appears the reduced length of the New TL comes solely at the expense of trunk space. Did Acura give up too much to achieve the short-deck look? Would the car actually look better if the rear deck was extended by a couple of inches? By way of comparison, the new Maxima, a car ridiculed for its quirky styling, has 43.9/36.5 front/rear legroom and a 15.5 cu ft trunk. More family-friendly capacities.

daysailer

or any other automation to prevent their incompetent operation of a vehicle, their license privileges should be reconsidered.

fwatson

If you've never heard of "the straw that broke the camel's back", that is what I am talking about.

One 30 second episode might not make much difference. What you are advocating is doing this every time you use the car. Lead-acid batteries are not fond of being used as a power source without also replenishing them at the same time (alternator). That is what you are doing, and if you continue long enough you might learn first hand what I am talking about. If you want to use it that way, at least keep a new battery in your car. It is true this scenario is unlikely to happen to you even with an old battery. But it definitely does happen, and in my opinion is not worth the minor convenience. Both of my cars chimes let me know if I forget to turn out the lights, and I am sure yours does too. If you make a habit of paying attention to that chime you won't leave your lights on anyway.

ksoman

I just took a look at the pictures online and those front seats have such a beautiful sculpted look. Though I'm not in the market for any car right now, I can't wait to go see one.
ksso

jrock65

bigbluu,

If you go to infiniti.com and build a G35 (leather, premium package, wood package) as close as possible to a base (non-NAVI) TL, it comes out to $34,095.

I have read that people are getting 2004 G35 and 2004 ES330 at $2000 to $3000 off MSRP. (The G35 coupe on the other hand, you're not gonna get much off MSRP). As I have said b4, all are good cars and deals.

uncledavid

It is slightly larger, and has fold down seats.

But, the TL's trunk is on par with the G35 (at least when the G35 is ordered with the full size spare) and is larger than the BMW 3-series and Audi A4 V6 (both competitors in terms of price).

I don't think the TL has a full size spare though. If you add one to the trunk, you're going to have even less storage room.

I'm also willing to bet that the brakes on the automatic are going to be lackluster. The brakes on my TSX are so-so at best, and the TL doesn't offer much of an improvement in technology (although the TL does add EBD and BrakeAssist).

bigdaddycoats

remember if this was posted before - 04 TL price is $32650 including destination. Nav is $2000.

jrock65

bigdaddycoats,

The base price of a 2004 TL is $33,195 including destination.

uncledavid

the price bigdaddycoat reported was BEFORE destination, which is $545.

Also, keep in mind that most dealers are going to hit you with a $45 documentation fee, and many will insist on charging you for mudflaps and wheel locks.

jchan2

not a problem for most people. remember, most people also own some sort of large SUV or minivan.

dulnev

You've got to be jocking! TSX trunk is NOT bigger than TL's. I just had TSX as a loaner for a week and found this out the hard way. We actually had to remove the front wheel off of our jogging stroller to fit it in the TSX's trunk. Our TL's trunk swallows it whole easily.

jchan2, you're very wrong; trunk space is very important to most people, especially those with families, regardless whether there is a second larger vehicle in the household.

clpurnell

Lets see would I rather have a couple squeaks and have to pay 300 to replace my brakes after 15k miles. Or would I like to be stranded on the highway with a busted transmission. I have also heard stories of sunroof and interior squeaks in the 2003 TL's that a 4 yr old model and they still cannot get the tranny right and fix the squeaks. I mean I think ruski has been through 2 or 3 transmissions. I rather have my shoddily built infiniti than a quiet neat acura that can't change gears. Like the above poster I hope the TL transmission problem is behind them. Same holds true for the ES they also had tranny problems and the new RX and Sienna do too.

kahunah

bodble2,

I'm not very happy about the smaller trunk either. That missing 2 cu.ft. can really add up to a lot on family vacations. In fact, this summer I had to install a roof-mounted space container (extra 15 cu.ft.) on my current '00 TL, and it was barely enough space for a family of four on a two week beach vacation.

What's more annoying is knowing that my old '92 Accord had a 14 cu.ft. trunk, and that's a smaller car!

bodble2

We find the trunk space on our '02 Accord quite adequate. But I sure as heck don't want to shell out $50K CAD (out-the-door) for the TL and then have to use the Accord for vacations. I don't want to buy it to have it sit in the garage! Hopefully the shape of the trunk will enhance the 12.5 cu. ft. Can't wait till Oct 15th!

uncledavid

Regardless of your personal impression of the trunk size, the TSX's is bigger. The trunk in the 2004 TL is 12.5 cu. ft. and the trunk for the TSX is 13 cu. ft. The trunk for the TSX can also be "expanded" because the rear seats fold. They do not fold in the the TL.

Acura is not marketing the TL as a family car. It is an upscale sports sedan, and there are some compromises in luggage space.

BTW, the new Honda Accord has about 15 cu. ft. Also,the trunk in the 2003 TL (which may be what Dulnev' was talking about) was bigger than either the TSX or TL by a substantial margin.

I personally don't think the trunk is going to have any impact on sales. However, I'm much more willing to forgive trunk space issues if space is being eaten up by a full size spare. But, I don't think a full size spare is even available on the TL.

Anyway, chances are I will own a TL myself sometime in the next few years. I won't let the trunk space issue stop me either.

bodble2

I don't think being an "upscale sport sedan" can be justification for a small trunk. The much smaller A4 has a bigger trunk -- 13.4 cu. ft. How about the BMW 5-series, G35, Maxima, Volvo S60T, Passat, etc., etc.? Aren't these all upscale sport sedans? The G35 stands out especially because it is about the same length as the TL, about 3 inches narrower, but has a 14.8 cu. ft. trunk.