It's not really fair to compare price of a 2004 to a 2003 TL, but I checked and a 2004 Accord EXV6 now with standard XM radio, sells for $24,893. Prices vary depending on the area. In the area I checked, left over 2003 Accords are listed at invoice price of $23,674. A 2003 TL lists at Carsdirect for $25,913 including the dealer incentive. So that's over $1000 more than a 2004 and nearly $2200 more than a 2003 Accord. The TL has Xenon lights, sport shift tranny (with bad reputation) and a 1 year longer warranty, but gives up more features than it adds (old design, no side curtain airbags, no XM radio, voice activated Navi not available, less horsepower compared to the Accord. The price is close enough though that I can understand why some people would give up features just for the prestige of driving an Acura vs a Honda. Then there are also people who are hung up on the look of the Accord's rear tail lights etc..
Back up the posting chain on this board or another TL or TSX board (I can't remember where for sure) there is a quite lengthy discussion regarding American v. Japanese quality and reliability.
back when my tranny broke, my dealer's service manager told me stuff about bad bearings or wrong bearing sizes...
There are so many stories about the cause of TL's tranny failure flying around on the internet and at different dealers... it is hard to tell which one of them is true. Maybe they are all true.
I currently drive a 00 TL with 55000 miles. the car runs like new and isn't giving me any problems. I just drove the new TL and love it. Is it better to upgrade now or wait a year or so?
I have different opinion on the RWD from Acura or Honda. Have you notice that Acura /Honda don't have RWD car except for NSX? They are not good at it! Sure, cost is one major issue, and expertise is anther. The major thing is they can't share same structure and parts for saving cost. That is why Honda can pack everything in one or two price while Toyota has to add options to match. And in short turn I don't expect to see Honda will change this practice unless customers want performance than price. Remeber the main customers buying Acura is because its value not performance nor luxury. That is why the RL fail and need more power/features/image to be the flagship of premium brand.
Iwise - The TL is made in America. Take the word of somebody who owns an Acura that was completely assembled in Japan (I own a TSX, built in Japan), the idea that cars built in Japan are somehow better or more reliable than cars built here is an urban myth. There is not one whit of empirical data to support that. The realiability of all the Honda products built in the states has been excellent.
BTW, the tranny that caused so much aggravation to TL drivers was actually built in Japan and shipped here.
Richard52 - Your TL should have held its value pretty well. But, the reality is, that most of the depreciation is in the first three years. So, you car is not going to depreciate much more from this year to next year. If I were you, I'd probably wait a year. By then, the supply of TLs will have caught up to demand. More importantly, it would be nice to wait one year and let them work the early production bugs out.
as uncledavid sez - it is the design of the car and the factory that make the reliability. The Japanese set up and run their factories in the USA the same as in Japan - THAT is what makes the difference, along with the engineering of the car. Case in point - My Solara was made in Canada and has been flawless for 5 years, and it was one of the first made.
Regarding first year blues - With Acura, there doesn't seem to be any "first year" problems. My wife has bought 3 Acuras, just when each new model was introduced (including '87, the VERY first year), and none of them has had problems of any kind (neither has my Solara).
Maybe that thinking only applies to domestic cars?
I don't know. I bought my TSX a few weeks after they came out. I haven't had any real problems, but other TSX drivers have talked about some annoying squeaks and rattles that Acura is trying to sort out. I think it is worth waiting a year if you can. But, again, I don't see it as a big issue.
Sounds like an argument to prove that Acura is not yet a premium brand. There was another comment that a RWD is not going to sell in snow belt regions. I don't buy this argument. True it will not sell if it is the only car a family owns, but a premium brand car buyer should be able to afford a set of snow tires or a second car to drive in heavy snow. In addition, in the largest auto market, California, it doesn't snow.
Edmunds" First Drive of the new TL mentions A-SPEC cars that will be available with a lower suspension, 18 in wheels and aero treatments. Has anyone heard when these are available and the price of this option? On acura.com you can add these options as individual items, but I do not see a package.
Hi gkearns56! This very conversation is happening in our active 2004 Acura TL (?) discussion. You might drop by there to get some feedback.
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The S2000 is RWD. It also has impressive engineering technology and performance to match a $60k Boxster S for $32k.
Honda/Acura CAN do it. But why they have chosen not to give a loyalist like me anything to consider in lieu of a BMW 5-series is puzzling. The M45 and GS430 don't quite do it for me, but the RL isn't even a remote consideration with it's FWD, underpowered V6 and dinosaur 4-speed auto. The old Legend GS 6-speed, albeit still a FWD car, was a lot closer to qualifying for consideration.
Well, I test drove the new TL last evening and what a difference from my 99. The ride, handling were so much better as well as the fit and finish. I have just sold my 99 TL and now I am really having a hard decision on what car to purchase now. I love the new TL, but at the same time I was offered 31,444.00 for the ES330 from Lexus of Melbourne which included the 6 disc CD changer, wheel locks and cargo net. It is a great price, but the TL is so new and different too. Have always owned Hondas/Acuras, so it would be my first Lexus. Plus the extra perks you get with owning a Lexus. Please help me decide.
I like the fact that the Lexus has real wood trim. Otherwise, I think the Acura has it beat. I think if you want a car that is luxurious with an isolated driving experience, the go for the lexus. The Acura is more fun to drive. The interior is on par with the lexus.
I also have driven both and the 04 TL is really fun to drive. I thought the new TL rode at least as well as the 03. It (04)was a nice balance between comfort and stability! I thought the 04 had a more comfortable ride than the 03 and much quieter. . On the other hand, the Lexus is also a really nice car and probably a better value B/c TL’s are not being discounted…. or are they?????
No, they aren't being discounted at all, but on the other hand, the TL has more features than the Lexus, but a Lexus is a Lexus. I guess it depends on what kind of drive your looking for. But I'm just not crazy about the look of the ES330, those super big headlights just turn me off.
I spent over an hour checking out and driving the new TL yesterday. Here are my disjointed observations:
* Interior is NICE as far as the quality of materials and layout goes, but I have two major complaints: 1. NO EXTENSION on SUN VISOR!!! This is a crime against humanity, as far as I'm concerned, and there is no way in hell I'd ever buy this car unless there is an after-market accessory that gives the same functionality. My daily commute involves sun on the left side going to and from work. I use the extension all the time and consider it to be a necessity.
2. No overhead sun-glasses holder is a screw-up. Yes, there are rubberized compartments for glasses in the door pockets, but I put my glasses there and they rolled around and made noise.
* Leather is better everywhere and there doesn't appear to be any vynil on the sides of the seats, maybe just on the back. But it's hard to say what material is on the back of the seats, since it's so taught over the frame.
* There is now perforated leather on the rear seats as well, which is great in most cases, but is really stupid, if you have kids. Spills that could be wiped off a solid surface will seep inside the perforated leather. This is the second reason I may never buy this car. I've had my share of juice and other spills by kids and it was great to have solid leather seats in the back. If I do buy it, I'd have to always have a protective pad under and around the car seats.
* The ride quality is greatly improved over the previous model.
* Transmission shifts are barely perceptible. AMAZING compared with 2003 TL-S!
* Wood (fake or not) trim looks great. I could never tell if it's fake. Carbon fiber accents are nice too.
* I didn't notice any improvement in body panel fit, but that's probably because you need a 2003 and 2004 models side-by-side for that.
* There was very noticeable wind noise at 60-80 mph, but I'm 99% sure it's because of the stupid wind deflectors around front windows and in front of sun roof that dealer put on the demo car.
* Demo car also had the underbody kit which, in my opinion, looks horrible.
* Road noise is definitelly reduced.
* The steering wheel is FINALY telescoping, BUT there is not enough range, as far as I'm concerned. I would've liked to pull it a bit closer.
* The center sliding arm rest is no more functional than before. The marketing materials say that it slides further forward than before, but I didn't find this to be the case; it's still too far back.
* The seats were very comfortable and the power lumbar support has a good range and is in the right place (unlike the G35, where it's too low).
* Trunk is definitelly a lot less useful than before. It doesn't have nearly the same height, which would thwart any suitcase stacking attempts.
* SWEET stereo system! Very clear and full sound. My car didn't have NAV so I can't comment.
* Nice wide padded arm-rests built into the doors. That's a great feature.
* Trip computer!!! I do wonder about its precision though because it was showing 14mpg average on our test car. Could be due to the way people drive on test drives though.
* Parchment leather is too light for my taste. I know that it will look bad unless you take care if it frequently. Camel color is lighter than on BMWs, I would've preferred it darker.
All in all, a great car for almost anyone and at an amazing price. Given that 2003 TL-S is now pretty much extinct (none in stock), you can't compare these any more. So you have to compare to G35, BMW 3 and 5 series, Audi, etc. Even at MSRP, the 2004 TL is a great deal, just like the previous model was, when it first came out.
No, they aren't being discounted at all, but on the other hand, the TL has more features than the Lexus, but a Lexus is a Lexus. I guess it depends on what kind of drive your looking for. But I'm just not crazy about the look of the ES330, those super big headlights just turn me off.
"1. NO EXTENSION on SUN VISOR!!! This is a crime against humanity, as far as I'm concerned, and there is no way in hell I'd ever buy this car unless there is an after-market accessory that gives the same functionality."
My 2003 Accord EX V6 doesn't have extensions either, although the visor itself can be extended if used on the side. This is a change from previous models. My understanding is that it has something to do a potential problem with the extensions if the side curtain airbags deploy. I never did find out the details of the potential problem, though. So this may explain the fact that the new TL doesn't have them, either.
I am trying to decide if the TL is worth the extra $6000-$7000 over the Accord V-6 w/leather. Any comments out there on the interior and exterior features? Is the structural rigidity in the TL that much better given that they are built on the same platform? Anyone driven both? Thanks.
They are now pretty different and the prices aren't close since you can get the Accord close to invoice and the TL is selling for full sticker price. Either you want to save alot of money or you want all the features that are only on the TL. It shouldn't be a hard decision once you decide how much money you want to spend and drive both. I think the debates on Accord EXV6 vs TL will start dying down now that they are not as similar in features and price as they used to be.
Went by the local dealer in Huntsville AL on Sunday to see the new TL...they look GREAT!!!
Has anyone dealt with the Huntsville Acura dealer...what has been your experience (buying and service)?
One comment on the new TL...I am curious about the interior color options available with certain exterior colors. Why would you not offer the gray/quartz with the Green and especially with the Red exterior. Black may look good, but personally I like the gray better, and it will not be as hot. Why not offer black interior with the white exterior (not for me, but it would look good).
Wait, talon95, are you saying that the visor can slide on its mount, when covering from the side so that it coveres more towards the back? If that's the case, that is AWESOME! I'm going to run into the dealership today to check if the new TL has this feature.
I have driven a white and silver TL, one with NAVI and one without. I must say I like the parchment better than the black interior on the silver TL, though, I'm curious about the camel interior.
Anyone seen that and can give reports vs. the parchment?
I'm leaning towards green with camel, but I'd like to see it before I order it.
I drove a Lexus, an EX V6 and a TL all on the same day and thought the Accord was a definite step down from the other two, though for a $24,500 or so price point, it's the best car in the class. It's better than the $33,000 Maxima I drove last night for sure.
I liked the Lexus' ride, but the body style didn't do it for me. I love the interior and especially the leather.
The TL is nearly as a nice as Lexus inside. Fit and finish -- as on the TSX -- are first quality. I thought the TL was a bit harsh on the ride the first time I test drove it, but after driving it today that criticism was put to rest.
This is a great car. I am going to have to wait 6-7 months until dealers start dealing on them. I hear cost is about $30,900 on the non Navi, so we'll see if one can be scored for about $31,900 or so in a few months. It's better than $33,100, though if I was in need of getting something right now, I'd go ahead and do it and make them load me up on at cost or free extras.
I'm still waiting to see one with a spoiler. I don't like the deck lid, especially for $400.
No, the visor won't move from the mount. It has a plactic insert you can pull it out to extend the coverage toward your back to cover the whole width of the front window.
Like the camel better than parchment. Nashville TN dealer has green with parchment interior we're negotiating on now. Trying to force me to pay $995 for trunk tray, mud flaps and two or three other little do-dads. I don't mind paying full sticker, but I'm choaking on the $995. I'd come down to Huntsville (only hour and fifteen from my house) if they are more reasonable. Let me know what you think about the Huntsville dealership.
I was thinking about buying some sort of entry-level luxury car (aka $30K-$33K car) and I was wondering which one of the cars I should go for and why??? I really like the TL but as some people already know this over on the Aveo board, I have a stretched budget and stretching it even more for a TL would present some financial problems. I am moving down to a smaller house- so that may help. I'll probably buy after the move. Any comments?
forgot to add. The Acura dealer (as is the Infiniti dealer and the Lexus dealer) are all very friendly and have a lotta loaners sitting out on the lot. The Saab dealer too.
Would do you guys think of the quality of the carpet? it looks very similiar to what is in my Impala. Not that that is bad. It is still far better than the junk they put in 50K SUVs. The cars that I saw Sunday were extremely well put together.
This is a little off topic but if GM/Ford?Chrysler doesn't get their car act together they will cease to exist in another 10 years.
The Asian designed Camrys, Maximas, and Accords are in a different league altogether.
"Wait, talon95, are you saying that the visor can slide on its mount, when covering from the side so that it coveres more towards the back?"
That's how the "side curtain airbag equipped" Accord works, and I speculated that, given their common design origins, the TL would work the same way. Sounds like that may not be true.
Anyway, on the Accord, the visor extends so that it leaves about 1 1/2 inches of glass between the b-pillar and the left edge of the visor. Works fairly well...
"Trying to force me to pay $995 for trunk tray, mud flaps and two or three other little do-dads"
I hope you don't give in. If nobody agrees to these junk fees, they will be forced to stop playing this game. It's bad enough that people are willing to pay MSRP. Once these diehard people get their cars, the dealers will have to start discounting.
just a quick look at the acura web page, the interier of the TL is Cool, but it is only a Camry SE level, or a Mazda 6 Sport package level, and do not come close to the ES330. The AL texture will fade quickly while the wood will grow on you. With ES330 dropping its price and one might be able to get the base model for a mere $28000, I don't think the TL is priced right.
The TL interior is much nicer than a Camry SE or Mazda 6. You are making statements condemning the aluminium to fade quickly when you really don't know whether it will or not. You would have to load the ES330 up with thousands of dollars in options to be close to the features of the TL and then you would still be missing alot that's not available on the Lexus. Real wood is better than fake wood, so buy an ES330 if you want to base your decision on that. People who buy ES330s usually want a conservative car with a soft ride, like a traditional Cadillac. The TL is a sportier car than an ES330 while being more luxurious than the sporty Lexus IS300 or even a G35. The exterior styling of the ES330 is so bad, that I won't seriously consider buying one unless the styling is helped a lot by the mid-cycle styling update in 2005 or 2006.
Having owned one, I can say that the Lexus ES is a GREAT car, IF you want cushy quiet driving with no excitement. It was wonderful for that. The new ES has one of the most beautiful interiors of any car, but still has Lexus' crappy short, shallow seats (why I sold it).
The TL is a different animal - fast, performance oriented with comfort along the way. The interior is more like high-end performance cars instead of like a Town Car. THIS is the image they want to show.
Meanwhile, the TL gives you just about EVERYTHING you could want in a car feature-wise, plus some extras, without having to buy countless confusing option packages (Kudos to Honda for this). It is NOT Honda's version of the ES.
where'd you test drive your TL? good dealer? i live in central florida and just paid off my '97 CL (which i bought in daytona where the dealer closed down), need to start shopping the '04 TL and TSX.
Your drive report sounds like what I was going to write. I drove an Abyss Blue/Camel no Nav model. I too was struck by how quiet it was compared to the previous car. The only thing, for the life of me I didn't hear anything different or spectacular about the stereo, even when the salesman played the DVD-type disc that he said comes with every TL. The stereo sounded no better than my own car's. I guess none of these luxury car stereos are good at playing anything with a little bass to it?
My only reservation about the interior is that it seems a little too busy with the fake wood, aluminum and black plastic all clashing, and competing from space. On cars with Parchment and Camel they should have just used more wood instead of the aluminum look stuff. Acura is getting closer, but Audi is still the champ of interior construction. The exterior styling of the 04' models makes the old car look like a vacum cleaner. Though the new car is sort of contrived with the "character" line and floating lower door treatment. I almost think the TSX looks a little better, or at least "cleaner". All in all it should break a sales record for Acura. It's one of the few Japanese cars I'd consider buying, along with the G35 Coupe.
The ES330 configured (six cd changer, hid, VSC, heated front seats, wood steering wheel) to be similar to a base TL has an MSRP of $35,000 including destination. This is only $1800 more than the TL. Considering that people are getting $2500 discounts off MSRP on ES330's now, the price is more or less the same. Of course, the TL price will come down eventually.
The TL does not offer that many more features IMO. To use the XM radio, you need to subscribe. Only a handful phones can take advantage of the Bluetooth. DVD-Audio discs are few and far between. What else does the TL have over the ES330 other than higher hp engine?
I'm not dissin the TL by any stretch. In fact, if I had to choose between the two, I'd get the TL over the ES330. I'm just saying that the TL does not have many more useful features nor is it much cheaper than the ES330.
Forget the website and go look at the car. Looked at a blue/camel last night. Bringing wife back tonight. Hope to have it by the weekend. Smitten. Have to settle for the auto though, wife tired of 5-speed.
"The only thing, for the life of me I didn't hear anything different or spectacular about the stereo, even when the salesman played the DVD-type disc that he said comes with every TL. The stereo sounded no better than my own car's"
You didn't specify which car you currently drive. The stereo on the 04 TL may not be spectacular, but it is WAY WAY better than the one on the 2003 TL. The main reason is that the 03 TL's stereo was actually worse than 2000-2002. For 03 Acura went a really cheap way and eliminated separate tweeters near the windshield. As a result, the sound was really flat, lacked a good spatial definition. I detected no such problem with the 04 stereo.
To be more comparable, you would need to also add the Mark Levinson stereo to the ES for more similar sound quality. Also, if there was on a trivial couple of horsepower difference, it would be one thing, but 45 horsepower is quite a difference. You are not going to get an ES330 for $28000 even totally stripped of options when even the invoice is over $29K and the TL will be discounted after it has been out for a while.
It is a little different buyer who gets the ES330 though. They are more concerned about quiet and soft ride than performance. I don't see debates on why the ES330 needs rear wheel drive on the Lexus boards.
I would not even consider an ES330 as a comparo. do you know why the seats do not fully recline in the ES330? Because the only thing left to do once in a fully reclined position would be to throw dirt on ya. The thing is a Camry coffin. YAWN!!
Comments
Prices vary depending on the area. In the area I checked, left over 2003 Accords are listed at invoice price of $23,674.
A 2003 TL lists at Carsdirect for $25,913 including the dealer incentive. So that's over $1000 more than a 2004 and nearly $2200 more than a 2003 Accord.
The TL has Xenon lights, sport shift tranny (with bad reputation) and a 1 year longer warranty, but gives up more features than it adds (old design, no side curtain airbags, no XM radio, voice activated Navi not available, less horsepower compared to the Accord.
The price is close enough though that I can understand why some people would give up features just for the prestige of driving an Acura vs a Honda. Then there are also people who are hung up on the look of the Accord's rear tail lights etc..
There are so many stories about the cause of TL's tranny failure flying around on the internet and at different dealers... it is hard to tell which one of them is true. Maybe they are all true.
BTW, the tranny that caused so much aggravation to TL drivers was actually built in Japan and shipped here.
Richard52 - Your TL should have held its value pretty well. But, the reality is, that most of the depreciation is in the first three years. So, you car is not going to depreciate much more from this year to next year. If I were you, I'd probably wait a year. By then, the supply of TLs will have caught up to demand. More importantly, it would be nice to wait one year and let them work the early production bugs out.
Regarding first year blues - With Acura, there doesn't seem to be any "first year" problems. My wife has bought 3 Acuras, just when each new model was introduced (including '87, the VERY first year), and none of them has had problems of any kind (neither has my Solara).
Maybe that thinking only applies to domestic cars?
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Honda/Acura CAN do it. But why they have chosen not to give a loyalist like me anything to consider in lieu of a BMW 5-series is puzzling. The M45 and GS430 don't quite do it for me, but the RL isn't even a remote consideration with it's FWD, underpowered V6 and dinosaur 4-speed auto. The old Legend GS 6-speed, albeit still a FWD car, was a lot closer to qualifying for consideration.
.
On the other hand, the Lexus is also a really nice car and probably a better value B/c TL’s are not being discounted…. or are they?????
* Interior is NICE as far as the quality of materials and layout goes, but I have two major complaints:
1. NO EXTENSION on SUN VISOR!!! This is a crime against humanity, as far as I'm concerned, and there is no way in hell I'd ever buy this car unless there is an after-market accessory that gives the same functionality. My daily commute involves sun on the left side going to and from work. I use the extension all the time and consider it to be a necessity.
2. No overhead sun-glasses holder is a screw-up. Yes, there are rubberized compartments for glasses in the door pockets, but I put my glasses there and they rolled around and made noise.
* Leather is better everywhere and there doesn't appear to be any vynil on the sides of the seats, maybe just on the back. But it's hard to say what material is on the back of the seats, since it's so taught over the frame.
* There is now perforated leather on the rear seats as well, which is great in most cases, but is really stupid, if you have kids. Spills that could be wiped off a solid surface will seep inside the perforated leather. This is the second reason I may never buy this car. I've had my share of juice and other spills by kids and it was great to have solid leather seats in the back. If I do buy it, I'd have to always have a protective pad under and around the car seats.
* The ride quality is greatly improved over the previous model.
* Transmission shifts are barely perceptible. AMAZING compared with 2003 TL-S!
* Wood (fake or not) trim looks great. I could never tell if it's fake. Carbon fiber accents are nice too.
* I didn't notice any improvement in body panel fit, but that's probably because you need a 2003 and 2004 models side-by-side for that.
* There was very noticeable wind noise at 60-80 mph, but I'm 99% sure it's because of the stupid wind deflectors around front windows and in front of sun roof that dealer put on the demo car.
* Demo car also had the underbody kit which, in my opinion, looks horrible.
* Road noise is definitelly reduced.
* The steering wheel is FINALY telescoping, BUT there is not enough range, as far as I'm concerned. I would've liked to pull it a bit closer.
* The center sliding arm rest is no more functional than before. The marketing materials say that it slides further forward than before, but I didn't find this to be the case; it's still too far back.
* The seats were very comfortable and the power lumbar support has a good range and is in the right place (unlike the G35, where it's too low).
* Trunk is definitelly a lot less useful than before. It doesn't have nearly the same height, which would thwart any suitcase stacking attempts.
* SWEET stereo system! Very clear and full sound. My car didn't have NAV so I can't comment.
* Nice wide padded arm-rests built into the doors. That's a great feature.
* Trip computer!!! I do wonder about its precision though because it was showing 14mpg average on our test car. Could be due to the way people drive on test drives though.
* Parchment leather is too light for my taste. I know that it will look bad unless you take care if it frequently. Camel color is lighter than on BMWs, I would've preferred it darker.
All in all, a great car for almost anyone and at an amazing price. Given that 2003 TL-S is now pretty much extinct (none in stock), you can't compare these any more. So you have to compare to G35, BMW 3 and 5 series, Audi, etc. Even at MSRP, the 2004 TL is a great deal, just like the previous model was, when it first came out.
My 2003 Accord EX V6 doesn't have extensions either, although the visor itself can be extended if used on the side. This is a change from previous models. My understanding is that it has something to do a potential problem with the extensions if the side curtain airbags deploy. I never did find out the details of the potential problem, though. So this may explain the fact that the new TL doesn't have them, either.
There are other more appropriate places to pursue this debate as I've noted previously here.
Thanks.
It shouldn't be a hard decision once you decide how much money you want to spend and drive both.
I think the debates on Accord EXV6 vs TL will start dying down now that they are not as similar in features and price as they used to be.
Has anyone dealt with the Huntsville Acura dealer...what has been your experience (buying and service)?
One comment on the new TL...I am curious about the interior color options available with certain exterior colors. Why would you not offer the gray/quartz with the Green and especially with the Red exterior. Black may look good, but personally I like the gray better, and it will not be as hot. Why not offer black interior with the white exterior (not for me, but it would look good).
Anyone seen that and can give reports vs. the parchment?
I'm leaning towards green with camel, but I'd like to see it before I order it.
I drove a Lexus, an EX V6 and a TL all on the same day and thought the Accord was a definite step down from the other two, though for a $24,500 or so price point, it's the best car in the class. It's better than the $33,000 Maxima I drove last night for sure.
I liked the Lexus' ride, but the body style didn't do it for me. I love the interior and especially the leather.
The TL is nearly as a nice as Lexus inside. Fit and finish -- as on the TSX -- are first quality. I thought the TL was a bit harsh on the ride the first time I test drove it, but after driving it today that criticism was put to rest.
This is a great car. I am going to have to wait 6-7 months until dealers start dealing on them. I hear cost is about $30,900 on the non Navi, so we'll see if one can be scored for about $31,900 or so in a few months. It's better than $33,100, though if I was in need of getting something right now, I'd go ahead and do it and make them load me up on at cost or free extras.
I'm still waiting to see one with a spoiler. I don't like the deck lid, especially for $400.
Not that that is bad. It is still far better than the junk they put in 50K SUVs.
The cars that I saw Sunday were extremely well put together.
This is a little off topic but if GM/Ford?Chrysler doesn't get their car act together they will cease to exist in another 10 years.
The Asian designed Camrys, Maximas, and Accords are in a different league altogether.
That's how the "side curtain airbag equipped" Accord works, and I speculated that, given their common design origins, the TL would work the same way. Sounds like that may not be true.
Anyway, on the Accord, the visor extends so that it leaves about 1 1/2 inches of glass between the b-pillar and the left edge of the visor. Works fairly well...
I hope you don't give in. If nobody agrees to these junk fees, they will be forced to stop playing this game. It's bad enough that people are willing to pay MSRP. Once these diehard people get their cars, the dealers will have to start discounting.
You would have to load the ES330 up with thousands of dollars in options to be close to the features of the TL and then you would still be missing alot that's not available on the Lexus.
Real wood is better than fake wood, so buy an ES330 if you want to base your decision on that.
People who buy ES330s usually want a conservative car with a soft ride, like a traditional Cadillac.
The TL is a sportier car than an ES330 while being more luxurious than the sporty Lexus IS300 or even a G35.
The exterior styling of the ES330 is so bad, that I won't seriously consider buying one unless the styling is helped a lot by the mid-cycle styling update in 2005 or 2006.
The TL is a different animal - fast, performance oriented with comfort along the way. The interior is more like high-end performance cars instead of like a Town Car. THIS is the image they want to show.
Meanwhile, the TL gives you just about EVERYTHING you could want in a car feature-wise, plus some extras, without having to buy countless confusing option packages (Kudos to Honda for this). It is NOT Honda's version of the ES.
My only reservation about the interior is that it seems a little too busy with the fake wood, aluminum and black plastic all clashing, and competing from space. On cars with Parchment and Camel they should have just used more wood instead of the aluminum look stuff. Acura is getting closer, but Audi is still the champ of interior construction. The exterior styling of the 04' models makes the old car look like a vacum cleaner. Though the new car is sort of contrived with the "character" line and floating lower door treatment. I almost think the TSX looks a little better, or at least "cleaner". All in all it should break a sales record for Acura. It's one of the few Japanese cars I'd consider buying, along with the G35 Coupe.
M
The ES330 configured (six cd changer, hid, VSC, heated front seats, wood steering wheel) to be similar to a base TL has an MSRP of $35,000 including destination. This is only $1800 more than the TL. Considering that people are getting $2500 discounts off MSRP on ES330's now, the price is more or less the same. Of course, the TL price will come down eventually.
The TL does not offer that many more features IMO. To use the XM radio, you need to subscribe. Only a handful phones can take advantage of the Bluetooth. DVD-Audio discs are few and far between. What else does the TL have over the ES330 other than higher hp engine?
I'm not dissin the TL by any stretch. In fact, if I had to choose between the two, I'd get the TL over the ES330. I'm just saying that the TL does not have many more useful features nor is it much cheaper than the ES330.
Have to settle for the auto though, wife tired of 5-speed.
You didn't specify which car you currently drive. The stereo on the 04 TL may not be spectacular, but it is WAY WAY better than the one on the 2003 TL. The main reason is that the 03 TL's stereo was actually worse than 2000-2002. For 03 Acura went a really cheap way and eliminated separate tweeters near the windshield. As a result, the sound was really flat, lacked a good spatial definition. I detected no such problem with the 04 stereo.
Also, if there was on a trivial couple of horsepower difference, it would be one thing, but 45 horsepower is quite a difference.
You are not going to get an ES330 for $28000 even totally stripped of options when even the invoice is over $29K and the TL will be discounted after it has been out for a while.
It is a little different buyer who gets the ES330 though. They are more concerned about quiet and soft ride than performance. I don't see debates on why the ES330 needs rear wheel drive on the Lexus boards.
$33,000 for an Acura TL gets you a semi-posh, semi-sporty car.
$33,000 for a BMW 330 gets you a real performance vehicle without much content.
Seems about right to me.