The 3 Series has one of the best resale value's of any car in the auto industry. The 5 Series resale value is ok. I wonder once the 04 5 comes out how it will sell. This is just my opinion but the radical exterior look of the 5 might turn off BMW loyalists and might even apreciate pre 04 5 Series resale value's.
While the car is great, I am very disappointed in the rear seat comfort and room.
It should have a roomier rear seat and much more comfortable. The one I tried the rear seat backs felt almost vertical, very uncomfortable. Also seemed very narrow.
While I realize this is a sport sedan, I would think that this detail should have been addressed. If I can't take people in comfort in the rear seat, I might as well buy a 2+2 coupe!
"If I can't take people in comfort in the rear seat, I might as well buy a 2+2 coupe!"
That's what I thought too when I bought my CL, but I've learned passengers getting in and out of the back is just as much a pain. That's one of the main reasons I'm looking at the TL.
Both the previous and new generation of TL include various safety features to avoid trouble, but these cars clearly emphasize performance. In the Norteast where I live, I am also concerned about reasonable safety in the snow months. How were the previous generation TL's, including base and Type-S, in the winter? Please comment on handling and emergency stopping on ice/snow.
The VW Passat is a great car with AWD, but its V6 is too slow, it's W8 is too expensive, and both are too unreliable.
Granted, almost any car provides relative safety if not driven to excess under challenging road conditions...vis a vis, my 1994 Camry is without blemish not because of it's safety features (almost non-existent), but because of my driving habits :-)
I have never owned a White car in my life. They have always been so-so in my mind. But I went to an Acura dealer in the Boston area yesterday and I must say the White/Parchment color combo on the TL blew me away. Alot of other people looking at the car over a 1 hour period said they felt the same way.
It almost makes the design that runs along the bottom of the doors...look like it has an aero package even though it doesn't.
Also when I looked at all the other colors lined up in the lot (silver, blue, grey, black,..) white didn't show hardly any dirt at all. Even though I took my finger ran it across a small section of the body...and my finger was black with dirt.
The sticker was 35,115.00 + 239.00 for rubber trunk mat, mud guards, and something else. I like this car better today than I did yesterday. The NAV is awesome.
why buy one? It'll just be as hard to get comfy in the back and it'll be even harder to get back there.... Plus insurance costs more on 2+2s than it does on regular sport-sedans.
I live in So. Calif, and I sincerely appreciate how COOL white color keeps the car compared to other colors. Just put your hand on cars of different colors during mid-day - you'll see what I mean. I rains seldom, so the car is usually clean, White is also a good color to add a spot of gold trim and tinted glass - it really shows off the shape of the car. The TL looks very good in white. However, I wish Honda would let go of there bias against white with black interior. My curent car is pearl white with dark charcoal inside, and it looks super. Black is the most elegant interior, and I don't like to "see" the interior while driving. 2 cars ago I had pearl white with tan interior, and couldn't keep it clean.
By the way - to all buyers - DON'T pay for the add-ons! make a deal for the car at MSRP, and then tell them that you will take if IF . . .they "throw in" the mats, trunk tray, splash guards, etc. These items cost the dealer almost nothing, and you can get some good value for yourself. One local dealer was pricing the trunk tray at $595! What a joke - there is about $6 worth of plastic and molding labor in it. Don't be gouged - walk out, the dealer will quickly "see it your way".
I sat in one today. The interior was nice, but it was sportier than I expected. The perforated leather seats made it seem like a sport or Type-S model rather than a luxury sedan. The sporting edge in the interior was harder than even a BMW 325i. That can be good or bad depending on what you're looking for.
Has anyone had any luck getting the dealerships to negotiate invoice pricing? I have NEVER paid sticker, and can't quite come to grips with paying sticker now.
went for a test drive last Thursday and the TL felt pretty good. Cushy and quiet but also showed good handling when I accelerated on an a half circle onramp at 50 mph. Its not a 3 series but pretty close. Tried out the stereo system and it was nice and clear but since I am not an audiophile can't say it blew me away. The 4 things missing to me are: awd auto headlights auto wipers one touch rear windows
I wouldn't mind paying xtra for those but I am still considering the TL or a spec'ed out 325xi. Both manuals of course
oh yeah brakes felt pretty good but I can't wait to try out the Brembos and LSD
As automophile said, walk out if the dealer forces add ons! If you want accessories, get prepared before you go in How? 1. Go to www.hondacuraworld.com, or any othe website that sells acura accessories. I suggest the above site because there is no tax, you can print out do it yourself instructions, and they offer free shipping. 2. print out the accessory price list, and TAKE IT WITH YOU to the dealer. The website price will most likely be cheaper than the dealership price.
3. Show the salesman from the list what accessories you are interested in, and ask the salesman if they will match or beat your price. I did this when i purchased my Tl-s in 2001. I got mudguards, and fenderwell trim for the website price, and installed them myself.
4. If the salesman is unwilling to meet your request, ORDER THE ACCESSORIES FROM THE WEBSITE. You can install them yourself, or if that is not your thing, you can go to the service dept. at the dealer and they will install them at the regular labor rate. the only way I would get accessories from the dealer at time of purchase is if the are free, or discounted. Don't be afraid to tell them that they are overpriced.
My trunk, while I haven't loaded it up yet, seems quite large enough. I had a 97 avalon and this one seems as big or bigger. Also bigger than my 96 maxima. The motor is sooooo sweet. effortless acceleration across the range of rpm's. The stereo is indescribable. Nav is so much fun, though I hardly know how to use it yet. Haaving owned this car for 48+ hours, it seems like there are no shortcomings. Granted, I am not a formula 1 racer, but this thing goes waaay faster than I want to drive. If you're thinking about this car, jump on it. It's a winner, and I'll bet they won't be able to keep them in stock in about 2 weeks.
I am seriously considering buying an Acura 04 TL. I am at a location where I am unable to test drive or visit a dealership so the only research I have done has been over the Internet. I will definitely test drive the Lexus ES330 when I get back stateside and maybe the Infinity I35. The reason I am leaning towards the Acura 04 TL is because it is a little faster than the ES330 and already comes loaded with options. When I tried to build the ES330 with all the same options the price quickly escalated towards 40 grand. I have a couple question for you experts out there if you could help me out.
1. Are tinted windows an option with the TL? If not how would one go about getting the windows tinted, but in a professional way. Meaning it won’t bubble up in a couple years. About how much would it cost? Also what are the legal ramifications? I know some states have laws that say the windows can only be tinted a certain percentage. I am in a job that I will move around every 2 years or so, I don’t want to get stuck replacing my windows because I am in a state with strict tinting laws. This leads me to my second question…
2. Can I go to any Acura dealer to get warrantee service? In other words once I move to another location, which will happen less than a year after I buy the vehicle, will I be snubbed by an Acura dealer because I didn’t buy the Auto there? Will I have more difficulty getting regular maintenance or warrantee service done on the car?
Judging from the complete lack of response to a posting by maldorf a few days ago (#1042), I take it everyone feels Acura has solved its serious automatic transmission problems. That would be nice. Does anyone have evidence from Acura that that is indeed the case?
mdhauke, there is no manufacturer's tinting option on Acuras, but you should definitelly consider aftermarket tinting. Unlike tint film made 10-15 years ago, the modern tint film can be expected to last a decade or more without any negative manifistations. That is, if you pick high quality film and high quality installer. Given that it costs $100-$200 to tint windows of a typical car, depending on the shop, I would highly recommend not being cheap and going for the highest quality you can get.
You do have to check your state's laws, but the local tint installers will tell you what it is. If you move to a state with more stringent restrictions on tint, you WILL have to remove it from your windows or risk a ticket. On the other hand, removing tint film is reasonably easy and a tint installer can do it for $60-$100.
Dealers will treat you the same regardless of whether you bought a car from them or not. They make 10 times more on service and parts than on selling cars, so they'd be VERY nice to you.
Linda72 - Erase the terms "invoice" and "sticker" from your vocabulary.
1. Take a good look at the car. 2. Figure out what you think it is worth to you. 3. Pay that amount.
The sticker price is just a number made up by the marketing folks. If Acura bumped up the MSRP by two grand then told you they would give you a $2,000 discount, would you be happy?
Mdhauke - Most modern tints will not bubble like the stuff used 10-20 years ago. The percentage of tint allowed varies from state to state. Which one will you be living in?
Warranties are honored at any Acura dealership, so long as it is in the same country as where the vehicle was purchased.
Perhaps - but . . . Given the discounts now available, I think that it deserves a look if the attributes it offers are of interest. - Ray Owner - 2002 W8 nearing 20,000 mies . . .
I test drove the car recently, and I was mildly impressed. The car handled great w/ almost no torque steer (unlike the Maxima). The brakes where also excellent. I would say that it handles almost as good as a bmw (I drive a 5 series). However, given that this car can be driven in the light snow and has ability to absorb potholes, it's a trade off that I'm willing to make. Dollar-for-dollar this is better than the BMW 3 series. Insofar as design, I must say I it's a big improvement vs the previous "grandma" car. The shape is very agressive and sporty. Lastly the interior fit and finish of this car is lexus-like excellent. The audio system is also very good. Also the dealer was unwilling to make any deals at the moment as the car was just released.
I have gone for two test drives in the TL and each one has been more impressive. However, the trip computer in both cars showed a very very low 13 MPG. I don't know if it is because both of these cars were demos and were being driven exuberantly or whether one can expect low gas mileage if the car is drive sporty.
Have any TL owners gotten a chance to check their mileage yet?
i had a 2003 cl type-s and it never seemed to make the mileage it claimed ....maybe because i drove it in a "sporty" fashion who knows....but yeah does anyone out there who has bought the new 2004 TL checked what ur mpg has been?
That's what I did for my purchase of my Odyssey. I still kept those figures in mind- I decided that the van that was listed as $27,190 was worth $26,690. ($500 off sticker) so, I ordered up my odyssey and I paid $26,690. Dealer was friendly- came down to a reasonable number that we liked and they liked. Didn't try to sell us any other car (this one other dealer offered us a very "nice" Passport EX)
TL- I am down to the wire between the TL, TSX and I35. Which one????? Your opinions????? And I will keep pricing in mind when I go shopping.
The actual city/highway mileage is usually about 30% less than the EPA city rating and and 10% more than the EPA highway rating, in my experience for cars that I've owned.
as dulnev says - get the best tinting you can afford. I use a greatplace in Valencia Calif that works for the all the dealers on auto row. A full set of all side windows runs about $240 with a liftime guarantee on labor and film. I choose a light tint - I think it is called 40%. Any darker is disfunctional since it makes it harder to see at night.
I is illegal to tint the front side windows in Calif, but I have never in 20 years been stopped for it. Just don't get too dark, and don't drive like an idiot.
The bubbling tints you seen on the road are most likely self-applied with material from the auto parts stores. The new films are semi-mettalic and stop a LOT of heat from entering the car as well as improving the lines of the car. Look at the photos in car ads - the cars always have tinted windows for this reason. It also provides a litle privacy - good for the ladies.
By the way - the dealer told me that they will hold the MSRP for a long time with no discounting due to limited production. Get your discount via the "add-ons" and enjoy this great car!
YES - the low mileage is because:1. it is a NEW car, and 2. People are putting them around the dealership. You should get the posted mileage or better.
On the TSX board, a new TSX owner got 32 mpg on the road driving the car back interstate, which is above the stated mileage. It should get even better after break-in!
in my new 2004 TL. Primarily highway driving, with lots of hills and an average speed of 70+ mph. The next tank is looking even better. 600 miles is fast approaching... How did I survive without XM radio?
Your theory looks good on the forum but doesn't hold water in the real world. What we have here is one hell of a sport sedan that has a loyal owner following which has been waiting for the remake for quite some time. I have talked to several dealers in the last week. If a dealer got 5 TLs in, 3 to 4 were already sold and the next batch in due in for another month. So guess what the unsold car is selling for? Please apply the laws of supply and demand to your theory.
By the way, for 33K, the car is worth every penny of it. I didn't want the test drive to end.
It's been awhile since I've logged on to edmunds.com but I wished I hadn't ever left! W/O reading this entire tread I thought I'd post my problem and while reading some history here wait for any replies. We purchased a Certified Pre-owned 2002 TL Type/S less than two months ago. My sister has owned one since new and loves hers and after we borrowed theirs for a week my wife did too. After buying the car was when I did a little research and found comments/post about transmission troubles. We had some wheels to be replaced because of previous damage so when at the dealer I asked, too late albeit, but was told the car was on its THIRD transmission. Feeling a little taken and only having a few days with the car I decided surely it was OK. We bought it at 28561 miles and by this time it had two transmissions replaced and the shift solenoid changed on the last one. Now, at 32435 miles it is going back for the fourth transmission. The car was purchased 10/15/01 and will be two in two days. What are my options? I'm getting hammered by my wife because she no longer feels safe driving the car let alone carry our 4yr old son and our second on the way. Aren't dealers supposed to declare this type of problem without being asked? Does a lemon law carry over to new owners after the initial owner has settled or disposed of the lemon? And get this, like an idiot I signed an arbitration agreement. I just love that one. I am extremely humiliated and can’t believe I decided to forgo my usual research and jumped into this vehicle eyes wide shut! If anyone has anything that can help I would certainly appreciate it.
I have to agree with you about MB ranking very low on the reliability scale. BMW/MB people buy those cars for snob appeal like someone said. I buy my cars because I want a reliable and dependable car, then something that looks a little sporty too. I think the Acura TL is a very nice looking car in and out. Not to mention it crushes BMW 325/330 series in the HP area. I can't stand an auto maker who charges $450 for folder down rear seat option (like BMW does) or almost $500 dollars for metallic paint. By the why for the person getting to excited by Lexus, I think they have nice products (reliability wise) but they look so much any more like a car my dad would shop for. That ES330 has huge ugly lights. Here is a link I've incorporated. Infiniti finished #1 in quality ranking with their cars.
"Infiniti Ranks Highest in J.D. Power and Associates Customer Service Index (CSI) Study [Jul. 23, 03]"
This comes straight from JD Powers. I like them because they don't care whether you are foreign or domestic, they tell it like it is. So as I said in a prior posting, Infiniti, Acura and Lexus all make fine products and will continue to be much more reliable then American cars and many of the German cars too.
Well, guess what? The dealer called back today after 4 days and wanted to offer a lower price and renegotiate after low balling my trade and only offering to knock off shipping when I was originally in the showroom, and after stating it was his final offer. I had to refuse, as my rejection of the first offer was final because the door did in fact hit me on the way out... . I don't play these games...and neither should anyone else. The car market today is a buyer's market, and there are plenty of cars of equal or better quality and value out there, as well as dealers who don't play games. I'll let someone else pay full sticker for a gussied up Accord EXV6.
There are few automobiles that are finer than a BMW/Benz. But be prepared to shell out some dough. "You get what you pay for" the addage goes. The TL is a honda attempt to get into that market. Honda needs to get some torque in their motors without them sounding like a blender. The germans have figuered out low end grunt, superb gearing, and a perfectly balanced car. That how their cars are just as fast with only 75% of the power. Check out their gas milage!
Picked up my white and parchment, auto, non-navi TL on Friday night and it has been a pleasure to drive. I had been looking for a very long time to determine what my next vehicle would be after my 99 TL, and was considering the TSX, and also considered the ES330. But it just did not float my boat, if you know what I mean. The new TL has everything and more that I would want or need on a car. Everywhere I have gone, people seem to stop and stare at the car and wonder what it is. Everytime I get in the car, I get a smile on my face! I love it. And if anyone is in the Central Florida area, I would highly recommend my salesman at Fountain Acura. If anyone wants more info, email me at szorl@aol.com
"Honda needs to get some torque in their motors without them sounding like a blender."
When Wards Auto named the Accord 3.0L V6 (the "little brother" of the TL's engine) to its 10 Best Engines list for 2003, they praised both its torque and its sound, as well as its overall design excellence. And the TL has even more torque.
And in their first drive of the TL, Edmunds said "Out on the road, this V6 is very refined, and there's plenty of power at any speed."
One thing that’s bothering me and I am far from a Car expert. I read on here that the knock on the TL is that it’s front wheel drive verses rear wheel drive. What are the big differences? I think I read somthing about under steer or something like that but I have no clue what it means. Also isn’t front wheel drive a big advantage in adverse conditions like rain and snow?
I;m not doubting that BMW and Menz make nice cars but Benz has so many reliability problems I would be scared to buy a Benz. BMW's is alright but I probably wouldn't buy one.
As far as engines Honda makes some of the best engines out there. Never doubt Honda in the engine department.
As far as purchase price is concerned I would wait a year to buy the TL(if you are interested in it) because 1st year cars always have bugs to work out(rattles mainly.) Also, I have heard on this board the TL went for sticker in 1998-1999 when it first came out. In 2001 you could probably buy a TL for 600 dollars over invoice. I think waiting until demand goes down for the TL would be a smart thing to do if you want a resaonable price on one.
This is worth an entire forum by itself - but to try to sum it up :
FWD is more compact giving more room inside the car and trunk, better gas mileage and better traction with more weight over the driving wheels.
RWD is more balanced in general, but weighs more overall, and the drive train takes up a lot of space.
Because of the weight in the front of the FWD car, it will tend to understeer more than a RWD car when driven hard. That means it will want to go straight as you are turning. RWD cars tend to over-steer, where it turns farther than you want.
Please note - In normal driving you will never notice any of this, only when pushing hard.
FWD cars also can exhibit "torque steer" where the car tends to pull to one side when accellerating heavily. Better engineered cars like the Acura have eliminated most if not all of this.
"I read on here that the knock on the TL is that it’s front wheel drive verses rear wheel drive."
Only the "enthusiasts" who plan on driving their vehicles like a race car on our public roads should have any concern about front vs. rear drive. Rear wheel drive cars offer better overall performance when driven at their limits. It's a combination of the driving wheels also being used to control the direction of the vehicle, and the mechanics of pushing vs. pulling a car through a turn. Weight balance also is a factor. Torque-steer, where the front wheels pull to right during hard acceleration, doesn't appear to be much of a factor with Acuras. Nissans are notorious for ripping the steering wheel out of your hand if you're not careful.
If you don't plan on pushing your car to it's limits, you shouldn't worry about it.
Jaydoll - I fail to see how that changes anything. If the dealer is asking a mark-up on the car (putting it out of a person's range), they shouldn't buy it. If anything, the mark-up you've described just illustrates once more that invoice and MSRP mean nothing.
Talon - Muspod is just going by the numbers. I'm not certain he really understands what they mean and which ones are important.
Comments
Can you please tell me exactly how much you paid? Did you get any other add-on accessories?
Thx.
It should have a roomier rear seat and much more comfortable. The one I tried the rear seat backs felt almost vertical, very uncomfortable. Also seemed very narrow.
While I realize this is a sport sedan, I would think that this detail should have been addressed. If I can't take people in comfort in the rear seat, I might as well buy a 2+2 coupe!
That's what I thought too when I bought my CL, but I've learned passengers getting in and out of the back is just as much a pain. That's one of the main reasons I'm looking at the TL.
The VW Passat is a great car with AWD, but its V6 is too slow, it's W8 is too expensive, and both are too unreliable.
Granted, almost any car provides relative safety if not driven to excess under challenging road conditions...vis a vis, my 1994 Camry is without blemish not because of it's safety features (almost non-existent), but because of my driving habits :-)
It almost makes the design that runs along the bottom of the doors...look like it has an aero package even though it doesn't.
Also when I looked at all the other colors lined up in the lot (silver, blue, grey, black,..) white didn't show hardly any dirt at all. Even though I took my finger ran it across a small section of the body...and my finger was black with dirt.
Up here in New Hampshire, that is a big plus....
By the way - to all buyers - DON'T pay for the add-ons! make a deal for the car at MSRP, and then tell them that you will take if IF . . .they "throw in" the mats, trunk tray, splash guards, etc. These items cost the dealer almost nothing, and you can get some good value for yourself. One local dealer was pricing the trunk tray at $595! What a joke - there is about $6 worth of plastic and molding labor in it. Don't be gouged - walk out, the dealer will quickly "see it your way".
That can be good or bad depending on what you're looking for.
The 4 things missing to me are:
awd
auto headlights
auto wipers
one touch rear windows
I wouldn't mind paying xtra for those but I am still considering the TL or a spec'ed out 325xi. Both manuals of course
oh yeah brakes felt pretty good but I can't wait to try out the Brembos and LSD
3. Show the salesman from the list what accessories you are interested in, and ask the salesman if they will match or beat your price. I did this when i purchased my Tl-s in 2001. I got mudguards, and fenderwell trim for the website price, and installed them myself.
4. If the salesman is unwilling to meet your request, ORDER THE ACCESSORIES FROM THE WEBSITE. You can install them yourself, or if that is not your thing, you can go to the service dept. at the dealer and they will install them at the regular labor rate. the only way I would get accessories from the dealer at time of purchase is if the are free, or discounted. Don't be afraid to tell them that they are overpriced.
1. Are tinted windows an option with the TL? If not how would one go about getting the windows tinted, but in a professional way. Meaning it won’t bubble up in a couple years. About how much would it cost? Also what are the legal ramifications? I know some states have laws that say the windows can only be tinted a certain percentage. I am in a job that I will move around every 2 years or so, I don’t want to get stuck replacing my windows because I am in a state with strict tinting laws. This leads me to my second question…
2. Can I go to any Acura dealer to get warrantee service? In other words once I move to another location, which will happen less than a year after I buy the vehicle, will I be snubbed by an Acura dealer because I didn’t buy the Auto there? Will I have more difficulty getting regular maintenance or warrantee service done on the car?
You do have to check your state's laws, but the local tint installers will tell you what it is. If you move to a state with more stringent restrictions on tint, you WILL have to remove it from your windows or risk a ticket. On the other hand, removing tint film is reasonably easy and a tint installer can do it for $60-$100.
1. Take a good look at the car.
2. Figure out what you think it is worth to you.
3. Pay that amount.
The sticker price is just a number made up by the marketing folks. If Acura bumped up the MSRP by two grand then told you they would give you a $2,000 discount, would you be happy?
Mdhauke - Most modern tints will not bubble like the stuff used 10-20 years ago. The percentage of tint allowed varies from state to state. Which one will you be living in?
Warranties are honored at any Acura dealership, so long as it is in the same country as where the vehicle was purchased.
Given the discounts now available, I think that it deserves a look if the attributes it offers are of interest.
- Ray
Owner - 2002 W8 nearing 20,000 mies . . .
Have any TL owners gotten a chance to check their mileage yet?
TL-
I am down to the wire between the TL, TSX and I35. Which one????? Your opinions????? And I will keep pricing in mind when I go shopping.
I is illegal to tint the front side windows in Calif, but I have never in 20 years been stopped for it. Just don't get too dark, and don't drive like an idiot.
The bubbling tints you seen on the road are most likely self-applied with material from the auto parts stores. The new films are semi-mettalic and stop a LOT of heat from entering the car as well as improving the lines of the car. Look at the photos in car ads - the cars always have tinted windows for this reason. It also provides a litle privacy - good for the ladies.
By the way - the dealer told me that they will hold the MSRP for a long time with no discounting due to limited production. Get your discount via the "add-ons" and enjoy this great car!
On the TSX board, a new TSX owner got 32 mpg on the road driving the car back interstate, which is above the stated mileage. It should get even better after break-in!
Your theory looks good on the forum but doesn't hold water in the real world. What we have here is one hell of a sport sedan that has a loyal owner following which has been waiting for the remake for quite some time. I have talked to several dealers in the last week. If a dealer got 5 TLs in, 3 to 4 were already sold and the next batch in due in for another month. So guess what the unsold car is selling for? Please apply the laws of supply and demand to your theory.
By the way, for 33K, the car is worth every penny of it. I didn't want the test drive to end.
It's been awhile since I've logged on to edmunds.com but I wished I hadn't ever left! W/O reading this entire tread I thought I'd post my problem and while reading some history here wait for any replies.
We purchased a Certified Pre-owned 2002 TL Type/S less than two months ago. My sister has owned one since new and loves hers and after we borrowed theirs for a week my wife did too.
After buying the car was when I did a little research and found comments/post about transmission troubles. We had some wheels to be replaced because of previous damage so when at the dealer I asked, too late albeit, but was told the car was on its THIRD transmission. Feeling a little taken and only having a few days with the car I decided surely it was OK. We bought it at 28561 miles and by this time it had two transmissions replaced and the shift solenoid changed on the last one. Now, at 32435 miles it is going back for the fourth transmission. The car was purchased 10/15/01 and will be two in two days. What are my options? I'm getting hammered by my wife because she no longer feels safe driving the car let alone carry our 4yr old son and our second on the way. Aren't dealers supposed to declare this type of problem without being asked? Does a lemon law carry over to new owners after the initial owner has settled or disposed of the lemon? And get this, like an idiot I signed an arbitration agreement. I just love that one. I am extremely humiliated and can’t believe I decided to forgo my usual research and jumped into this vehicle eyes wide shut! If anyone has anything that can help I would certainly appreciate it.
Dano
I have to agree with you about MB ranking very low on the reliability scale. BMW/MB people buy those cars for snob appeal like someone said. I buy my cars because I want a reliable and dependable car, then something that looks a little sporty too. I think the Acura TL is a very nice looking car in and out. Not to mention it crushes BMW 325/330 series in the HP area. I can't stand an auto maker who charges $450 for folder down rear seat option (like BMW does) or almost $500 dollars for metallic paint. By the why for the person getting to excited by Lexus, I think they have nice products (reliability wise) but they look so much any more like a car my dad would shop for. That ES330 has huge ugly lights. Here is a link I've incorporated. Infiniti finished #1 in quality ranking with their cars.
"Infiniti Ranks Highest in J.D. Power and Associates Customer Service Index (CSI) Study [Jul. 23, 03]"
http://www.infinitinews.com/
This comes straight from JD Powers. I like them because they don't care whether you are foreign or domestic, they tell it like it is. So as I said in a prior posting, Infiniti, Acura and Lexus all make fine products and will continue to be much more reliable then American cars and many of the German cars too.
Like a TL-XL
I am pretty sure people will want that option and are willing to pay 1k or 2k more
When Wards Auto named the Accord 3.0L V6 (the "little brother" of the TL's engine) to its 10 Best Engines list for 2003, they praised both its torque and its sound, as well as its overall design excellence. And the TL has even more torque.
And in their first drive of the TL, Edmunds said "Out on the road, this V6 is very refined, and there's plenty of power at any speed."
One thing that’s bothering me and I am far from a Car expert. I read on here that the knock on the TL is that it’s front wheel drive verses rear wheel drive. What are the big differences? I think I read somthing about under steer or something like that but I have no clue what it means. Also isn’t front wheel drive a big advantage in adverse conditions like rain and snow?
Thanks for your help
As far as engines Honda makes some of the best engines out there. Never doubt Honda in the engine department.
As far as purchase price is concerned I would wait a year to buy the TL(if you are interested in it) because 1st year cars always have bugs to work out(rattles mainly.) Also, I have heard on this board the TL went for sticker in 1998-1999 when it first came out. In 2001 you could probably buy a TL for 600 dollars over invoice. I think waiting until demand goes down for the TL would be a smart thing to do if you want a resaonable price on one.
FWD is more compact giving more room inside the car and trunk, better gas mileage and better traction with more weight over the driving wheels.
RWD is more balanced in general, but weighs more overall, and the drive train takes up a lot of space.
Because of the weight in the front of the FWD car, it will tend to understeer more than a RWD car when driven hard. That means it will want to go straight as you are turning. RWD cars tend to over-steer, where it turns farther than you want.
Please note - In normal driving you will never notice any of this, only when pushing hard.
FWD cars also can exhibit "torque steer" where the car tends to pull to one side when accellerating heavily. Better engineered cars like the Acura have eliminated most if not all of this.
Only the "enthusiasts" who plan on driving their vehicles like a race car on our public roads should have any concern about front vs. rear drive. Rear wheel drive cars offer better overall performance when driven at their limits. It's a combination of the driving wheels also being used to control the direction of the vehicle, and the mechanics of pushing vs. pulling a car through a turn. Weight balance also is a factor. Torque-steer, where the front wheels pull to right during hard acceleration, doesn't appear to be much of a factor with Acuras. Nissans are notorious for ripping the steering wheel out of your hand if you're not careful.
If you don't plan on pushing your car to it's limits, you shouldn't worry about it.
$29,755 + $545 Destination = $30,300 Non-Navi
Navi adds another $1,821 = $32,121 With Navi
Talon - Muspod is just going by the numbers. I'm not certain he really understands what they mean and which ones are important.